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Totilas / Fuego - you be the judge :)

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  • Totilas / Fuego - you be the judge :)

    ok, so i have read several folks slam Fuego for his movement that is more exaggerated that Totilas', the lack of engagement, short neck etc. Fuego looks like a park horse, but T doesn't etc.

    for fun, i had created this collage - just picking some random images from the first few minutes of the test and then looking to see if i could find similar from the other horse.

    i think it is pretty interesting.....

    what do you think?

    ps - i read that "Linda Zang, warned the top riders to watch out for this new pair in the future." (DNN)

    http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pi...00000097655253

    (yes, i am smitten! )
    Last edited by mbm; Oct. 5, 2010, 11:25 PM. Reason: edited to add correct link

  • #2
    can't see it!
    www.ncsporthorse.com

    Comment


    • #3
      The link didn't work for me either, and I'm quite curious! I really enjoyed both horses, for different reasons obviously and I have been following everyones critique's and comparisons on here.

      www.lindseycanesi.weebly.com

      *Know Jumps, Know Glory... No Jumps, No Glory*

      Comment


      • #4
        Not working for me either

        Comment


        • #5
          I wonder if it's because of your facebook settings? Maybe your photos are private and therefore only your friends can see them? Or maybe just a facebook glitch, I've gotten a lot of glitches lately!

          www.lindseycanesi.weebly.com

          *Know Jumps, Know Glory... No Jumps, No Glory*

          Comment

          • Original Poster

            #6
            yikes! sorry...

            try this?

            http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pi...00000097655253

            Comment


            • #7
              I watched both rides on video, and your stills show that both horses have amazing movement. I liked Fuego's test better than Totilas's test, it was more fluid and energetic. I think Toto has a bit of (I know, this will be viewed as blasphemy by DQs...sorry!) a "hackney pony" thing going on with his extravagant front end. Somehow, it works better on Fuego. Ok, back to my wee tiny jumping corner of the world...
              Proud member of the "Don't rush to kill wildlife" clique!

              Comment


              • #8
                I'm so tired of hearing about this. Fuego's work was not as high quality as Totilas's, though he was more of a crowd pleaser. I will not begin to nit pick, as I'm not a judge. However, the judges scored Totilas about 10 points above Fuego... that is how it ended, and nothing will change that.

                I have good and bad pictures of every horse that competed at the World Equestrian Games, and plenty of them. I do not feel the need to release them, as it won't do any good.

                Good for Feugo for getting to where he did, but he was still beaten (and I think fairly so) by 4 other horses.

                Personally, I liked Totilas's GPS best. Ravel was my favorite on Friday night, doesn't mean he should have won, but I really did enjoy watching Steffan's test.
                Making Your Ambitions a Reality at Secret Ambition Stables.
                Quality Welsh Ponies and Welsh Crosses bred for sport
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                • #9
                  I loved both. I loved Totilas for how precise and perfect he seemed to be, how effortless. I loved Fuego for how much fun he and his rider were having out there, and how happy and willing he was to do what asked. (To clarify, I don't think Totilas is unwilling - just that Fuego seemed to love what he was doing.)

                  That said, Laura's horse and Ravel are more horses I love watching just for their styles. But that's personal preference. I loved all the top horses, so after watching them stream live asked my aunt to record the tv coverage on her HD station for me. (And am annoyed Fuego wasn't shown!)
                  Originally posted by Silverbridge
                  If you get anything on your Facebook feed about who is going to the Olympics in 2012 or guessing the outcome of Bush v Gore please start threads about those, too.

                  Comment

                  • Original Poster

                    #10
                    Originally posted by Dressage_Diva333 View Post

                    Good for Feugo for getting to where he did, but he was still beaten (and I think fairly so) by 4 other horses. .
                    no, he wasn't beaten at all. he won the hearts of 25,000 people in the stands and who knows how many via video

                    in any case - i didnt post the pic to "nitpick" but to show how similar they are - which is amazing when you consider one is WB and one iberian!

                    plus i love that Linda Zang said that he will be the one to watch in the future.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by mbm View Post
                      no, he wasn't beaten at all. he won the hearts of 25,000 people in the stands and who knows how many via video

                      in any case - i didnt post the pic to "nitpick" but to show how similar they are - which is amazing when you consider one is WB and one iberian!

                      plus i love that Linda Zang said that he will be the one to watch in the future.
                      Boy, some people just can't let it go, can they?
                      Surgeon General warns: "drinking every time Trump lies during the debate could result in acute alcohol poisoning."

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Would it be incorrect for me (lacking knowledhe in such things) to suggest that Fuego would perhaps have been more "precise" if riders were switched?

                        My untrained eye saw more horse power in Fuego...more ride finesser in the Gal team.

                        I recall an interview with Gal which asked what he felt Totilas' advantage might be..and if I am recalling correctly, he said it was him. True that.

                        Horse for horse, myself I chose Fuego. Wreaks of power under control.

                        At those levels really is there a bad horse? please...I'd take any of them....lol

                        But in watching them over and over, I see Gal as just a spectacularly precise rider who has a horse able and willing to follow his lead.

                        In The fuego team, I see also a great rider, whose emotions perhaps amped him up and made him a little less precise, but the horse showed what he is made of nonetheless.

                        It's not as if the horses are doing these tests solo...so I say rider error downed the Fuego score. Then what do I know...lol

                        They are all amazing and deserve the credit they've earned in my book..which admittedly is barely on chapter one.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          It's when you put the videos right next to each other - as Theo did on his forum - that it becomes quite apparent that "you get more dressage for your money with Toto! "

                          And yes, all top 4 horses were excellent, but the point of competition is to pick a winner and at the WEG it was Edward Gal and Totilas without a doubt!

                          So nit pick away and pick your own favorites - I have no problem with that, but recognize it also won't change the facts.
                          Siegi Belz
                          www.stalleuropa.com
                          2007 KWPN-NA Breeder of the Year
                          Dutch Warmbloods Made in the U. S. A.

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by siegi b. View Post
                            It's when you put the videos right next to each other - as Theo did on his forum - that it becomes quite apparent that "you get more dressage for your money with Toto! "

                            And yes, all top 4 horses were excellent, but the point of competition is to pick a winner and at the WEG it was Edward Gal and Totilas without a doubt!

                            So nit pick away and pick your own favorites - I have no problem with that, but recognize it also won't change the facts.
                            Well, stated.

                            Remember, the WEG is not about who WE like best, who the applause meter goes the highest, but about who IS the best that day, in that test, as per dressage rules.
                            The judges have spoken and with good reason behind how they scored, just as they do in any other day and test.
                            Simple to see, learn what is being judged and train and perform for what the test demands.

                            All there were good, that day, that test.
                            The placings were as they should have been, for what was being judged.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by siegi b. View Post
                              It's when you put the videos right next to each other - as Theo did on his forum - that it becomes quite apparent that "you get more dressage for your money with Toto! "

                              And yes, all top 4 horses were excellent, but the point of competition is to pick a winner and at the WEG it was Edward Gal and Totilas without a doubt!

                              So nit pick away and pick your own favorites - I have no problem with that, but recognize it also won't change the facts.
                              The "facts" are that judges currently prefer horses like Totilas, and has little to do with rules of competitive dressage.

                              Comment


                              • #16
                                Originally posted by Xfactor View Post
                                Would it be incorrect for me (lacking knowledhe in such things) to suggest that Fuego would perhaps have been more "precise" if riders were switched?
                                Given different riders and different training, I would hazard a guess both would be very different horses. I don't know the training methods of either rider, but I'm guessing they have a specific way they train which works with some horses better than others. From what we saw in the arena, probably very different from each other... so yes, the energy levels between the two would vary greatly. I am guessing the flamboyant energy shown by Fuego's rider would not have worked well for Totilas, but that Fuego would have been a little more flat looking without his brilliance if he had a rider who were more reserved.

                                What makes Totilas more natural looking to me than Fuego is that he also has suspension in his movement. Huge reach which lands well in front of where it started due to air time. To me that just seems more natural - people and horses do a variety of things with their limbs while in the air, naturally.
                                Originally posted by Silverbridge
                                If you get anything on your Facebook feed about who is going to the Olympics in 2012 or guessing the outcome of Bush v Gore please start threads about those, too.

                                Comment


                                • #17
                                  Originally posted by grayarabpony View Post
                                  The "facts" are that judges currently prefer horses like Totilas, and has little to do with rules of competitive dressage.
                                  I beg to disagree.
                                  Judges judge what is presented to them, each movement needs to be xyz technically, precise and then the rest is icing to add some marks.

                                  When the movement is not basically correct, the marks reflect it and that is why some placed above others, nothing more or less, no "judge's preference", not at the level of correctness and precision as was clearly to see in some performances, sorry.

                                  Comment


                                  • #18
                                    Originally posted by Go Fish View Post
                                    Boy, some people just can't let it go, can they?

                                    No. But the internet gives them a voice. I think of these people as the Christine O'Donnell's of dressage

                                    Comment


                                    • #19
                                      Originally posted by Discobold View Post
                                      No. But the internet gives them a voice. I think of these people as the Christine O'Donnell's of dressage
                                      You may find in any competition, between the spectators, some that when their man/team doesn't win, they have to find excuses, a common one "it has to be the judging".

                                      OF COURSE it is the judging, that is the idea of competing, to be judged, really, honestly.

                                      For the competitors, they are now looking to the next show already, but not their fans, they have to dwell on every possible angle.

                                      Nothing different here.

                                      Comment


                                      • #20
                                        Well, I for one would not like to see the riders switched as one person mentioned above, just because I love the precision and power of the Gal/Totilas pair, and I enjoy the wonderful exuberance of the Munoz Diaz/Fuego pair. I think each thrives right where he's at.

                                        From a technical standpoint, Fuego did make errors in the test, and I would have been shocked to see him scored higher. That's not to dismiss the test, which I LOVED and watched multiple times just to enjoy it over and over! I'm so thrilled that the pair came and performed with such joy, and I do think it's a test that won't be forgotten.

                                        Comment

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