• Welcome to the Chronicle Forums.
    Please complete your profile. The forums and the rest of www.chronofhorse.com has single sign-in, so your log in information for one will automatically work for the other. Disclaimer: The opinions expressed here are the views of the individual and do not necessarily reflect the views and opinions of The Chronicle of the Horse.



Forum rules and no-advertising policy

As a participant on this forum, it is your responsibility to know and follow our rules. Please read this message in its entirety.

Board Rules

1. You’re responsible for what you say.
As outlined in Section 230 of the Communications Decency Act, The Chronicle of the Horse and its affiliates, as well Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd., the developers of vBulletin, are not legally responsible for statements made in the forums.

This is a public forum viewed by a wide spectrum of people, so please be mindful of what you say and who might be reading it—details of personal disputes are likely better handled privately. While posters are legally responsible for their statements, the moderators may in their discretion remove or edit posts that violate these rules. Users have the ability to modify or delete their own messages after posting, but administrators generally will not delete posts, threads or accounts upon request.

Outright inflammatory, vulgar, harassing, malicious or otherwise inappropriate statements and criminal charges unsubstantiated by a reputable news source or legal documentation will not be tolerated and will be dealt with at the discretion of the moderators.

2. Conversations in horse-related forums should be horse-related.
The forums are a wonderful source of information and support for members of the horse community. While it’s understandably tempting to share information or search for input on other topics upon which members might have a similar level of knowledge, members must maintain the focus on horses.

3. Keep conversations productive, on topic and civil.
Discussion and disagreement are inevitable and encouraged; personal insults, diatribes and sniping comments are unproductive and unacceptable. Whether a subject is light-hearted or serious, keep posts focused on the current topic and of general interest to other participants of that thread. Utilize the private message feature or personal email where appropriate to address side topics or personal issues not related to the topic at large.

4. No advertising in the discussion forums.
Posts in the discussion forums directly or indirectly advertising horses, jobs, items or services for sale or wanted will be removed at the discretion of the moderators. Use of the private messaging feature or email addresses obtained through users’ profiles for unsolicited advertising is not permitted.

Company representatives may participate in discussions and answer questions about their products or services, or suggest their products on recent threads if they fulfill the criteria of a query. False "testimonials" provided by company affiliates posing as general consumers are not appropriate, and self-promotion of sales, ad campaigns, etc. through the discussion forums is not allowed.

Paid advertising is available on our classifieds site and through the purchase of banner ads. The tightly monitored Giveaways forum permits free listings of genuinely free horses and items available or wanted (on a limited basis). Items offered for trade are not allowed.

Advertising Policy Specifics
When in doubt of whether something you want to post constitutes advertising, please contact a moderator privately in advance for further clarification. Refer to the following points for general guidelines:

Horses – Only general discussion about the buying, leasing, selling and pricing of horses is permitted. If the post contains, or links to, the type of specific information typically found in a sales or wanted ad, and it’s related to a horse for sale, regardless of who’s selling it, it doesn’t belong in the discussion forums.

Stallions – Board members may ask for suggestions on breeding stallion recommendations. Stallion owners may reply to such queries by suggesting their own stallions, only if their horse fits the specific criteria of the original poster. Excessive promotion of a stallion by its owner or related parties is not permitted and will be addressed at the discretion of the moderators.

Services – Members may use the forums to ask for general recommendations of trainers, barns, shippers, farriers, etc., and other members may answer those requests by suggesting themselves or their company, if their services fulfill the specific criteria of the original post. Members may not solicit other members for business if it is not in response to a direct, genuine query.

Products – While members may ask for general opinions and suggestions on equipment, trailers, trucks, etc., they may not list the specific attributes for which they are in the market, as such posts serve as wanted ads.

Event Announcements – Members may post one notification of an upcoming event that may be of interest to fellow members, if the original poster does not benefit financially from the event. Such threads may not be “bumped” excessively. Premium members may post their own notices in the Event Announcements forum.

Charities/Rescues – Announcements for charitable or fundraising events can only be made for 501(c)(3) tax-exempt organizations. Special exceptions may be made, at the moderators’ discretion and direction, for board-related events or fundraising activities in extraordinary circumstances.

Occasional posts regarding horses available for adoption through IRS-registered horse rescue or placement programs are permitted in the appropriate forums, but these threads may be limited at the discretion of the moderators. Individuals may not advertise or make announcements for horses in need of rescue, placement or adoption unless the horse is available through a recognized rescue or placement agency or government-run entity or the thread fits the criteria for and is located in the Giveaways forum.

5. Do not post copyrighted photographs unless you have purchased that photo and have permission to do so.

6. Respect other members.
As members are often passionate about their beliefs and intentions can easily be misinterpreted in this type of environment, try to explore or resolve the inevitable disagreements that arise in the course of threads calmly and rationally.

If you see a post that you feel violates the rules of the board, please click the “alert” button (exclamation point inside of a triangle) in the bottom left corner of the post, which will alert ONLY the moderators to the post in question. They will then take whatever action, or no action, as deemed appropriate for the situation at their discretion. Do not air grievances regarding other posters or the moderators in the discussion forums.

Please be advised that adding another user to your “Ignore” list via your User Control Panel can be a useful tactic, which blocks posts and private messages by members whose commentary you’d rather avoid reading.

7. We have the right to reproduce statements made in the forums.
The Chronicle of the Horse may copy, quote, link to or otherwise reproduce posts, or portions of posts, in print or online for advertising or editorial purposes, if attributed to their original authors, and by posting in this forum, you hereby grant to The Chronicle of the Horse a perpetual, non-exclusive license under copyright and other rights, to do so.

8. We reserve the right to enforce and amend the rules.
The moderators may delete, edit, move or close any post or thread at any time, or refrain from doing any of the foregoing, in their discretion, and may suspend or revoke a user’s membership privileges at any time to maintain adherence to the rules and the general spirit of the forum. These rules may be amended at any time to address the current needs of the board.

Please see our full Terms of Service and Privacy Policy for more information.

Thanks for being a part of the COTH forums!

(Revised 1/26/16)
See more
See less

Anyone else think that canter pirouette should just go away??

  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Anyone else think that canter pirouette should just go away??

    Because I watched something like 250 of them over the last two days at WEG and STILL can't figure out what the judges are looking for and how they are scoring them. Makes me just think they should take it out or figure out exactly what a good one is, and then just give everyone that does one that stalls out or isn't correct a 3 and move on.

  • #2
    No. A Spanish rider scored a 10 on a pirouette a few years ago. Can't recall his name, the horse or anything, but did see the video. Impressive, and everything a pirouette should be. Good pirouettes separate the wheat from the chaff. Perhaps where the judge is sitting relative to the movement colors their perception?

    Now that renvers in Second Level 4 (Second 3, for 2011, I think) -- THAT should go, because we suck at it!


    • #3
      Originally posted by Beasmom View Post

      Now that renvers in Second Level 4 (Second 3, for 2011, I think) -- THAT should go, because we suck at it!
      We are good at renvers! I would rather they take out the simple changes because they get my mare all worked up and full of herself, and not in a good way.


      • #4
        Keep them, but,
        I wish they'd do away with those double pirouettes. It used to be one go around. Was beautiful. The second one is never as good.
        Last edited by princessfluffybritches; Sep. 30, 2010, 12:21 PM.


        • #5
          nope- they definitely have specific things they look for and they show specific skills. After watching my trainer do them and talking with her about them and reviewing photos of hers in various stages I am at least more able to recognize good ones from less than good ones. I don't pretend to know much but I don't think we should eliminate a movement because I don't fully understand it yet
          My blog:



          • #6
            I don't think so. It use to be one of my highest scores on my young rider horse; he had amazing pirouettes! To sit a correct pirouette is akin to sitting a really nice extended trot. It is a wonderfully refined movement that definitely has it's place in FEI.
            "The ability to write a check for attire should not be confused with expertise. Proficiency doesn't arrive shrink-wrapped from UPS and placed on your doorstep."


            • #7
              i kinda agree.... what in general is being done isnt really a CP... it is more of a rear-o-ette.....

              there should be 3 beat, with eh horse still in canter.... not back feet planted and forelegs pawing the air


              • #8
                Originally posted by mbm View Post
                i kinda agree.... what in general is being done isnt really a CP... it is more of a rear-o-ette.....

                there should be 3 beat, with eh horse still in canter.... not back feet planted and forelegs pawing the air
                Pirouettes CAN'T be three beat, I don't think.

                When you get into pirouettes the three beat canter becomes a four beat gait. Look closely- the non leading foreleg strikes the ground *after* the diagonally opposite hind.
                The Noodlehttp://tiny.cc/NGKmT&http://tiny.cc/gioSA
                Boy Wonderhttp://tiny.cc/G9290
                The Hana is nuts! NUTS!!http://tinyurl.com/SOCRAZY


                • #9
                  Originally posted by meupatdoes View Post
                  Pirouettes CAN'T be three beat, I don't think.

                  When you get into pirouettes the three beat canter becomes a four beat gait. Look closely- the non leading foreleg strikes the ground *after* the diagonally opposite hind.

                  I have actually seen a 3 beat Pirouette once...but it wasn't a dressage rider, just one of them Spanish hacks doing a thing with a long pole....wonderful TV special, also had the top dressage lady at the time doing a kur....her pirouette looked more like a Terre-a-terre on a circle....

                  I actually prefer a 4 bat over the 2 beat...

                  But I think it's judged along these lines:
                  Canter? check
                  small circle? check
                  rider recognition? add 2 points for known pilot...4 for well known one. deduct 2 for lesser known ones...

                  They might as well do away with it, they are not judging it by their own rules...


                  • #10
                    I think Toto has beautiful pirouettes.

                    And Rusty...omg! Rusty had the most beautiful pirouettes!
                    "I'm holding out for the $100,000 Crossrail Classic in 2012." --mem
                    "With all due respect.. may I suggest you take up Croquet?" --belambi
                    Proud Member of the Opinionated Redhead Club!


                    • #11
                      The double pirouette is great thats when you start to get the real gymnastic effect of it. Its like, doing half walk pirouettes is kind of pointless, they should be full walk pirouettes the 2nd part is when you got the good effect of it. Reinbacks, halts, walk pirouettes, canter pirouettes, transitions, extended and collected walk thats where I get all my points on when I have less than perfect movers!


                      • #12
                        Even the cover of DT publishes pirouettes with two hind legs on the ground. Which phase of the (3 beat) canter has 2 hind legs on the ground ?? Does anyone know of any pictures with the canter in 3 beat ? So, outside hind leg on the ground only ?
                        "Friend" me !



                        • #13
                          To me the canter pirouettes are the best part of Grand Prix dressage. I dare to dream of riding some one day. The judges want to see between 6-8 canter steps in each pirouette, and the pirouette needs to end on the same line it started. Also, the judges want to see the canter maintain the jump and rhythm.

                          Laura B.'s horse Alf has fantastic pirouettes, so watch his for good ones. Very balanced, not appearing to scramble or quicken, just steady and very even.


                          • #14
                            In Disney's 1963 movie about the White Stallions, one of the riders from SRS does a canter pirouette.
                            The difference between that BEAUTIFUL one and the competitive ones is simply that the riders are trying to pirouette in the smallest circle possible and as such dilutes the canter or trot.
                            The canter and trot pirouette should be done with the hind legs making a circle and the front legs making another circle.
                            In competitive dressage the pirouette has become fundamentally like the spin in reining. Trying desperately to keep the hind feet turning in almost one spot.............
                            Ask and allow, do not demand and force.


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by spirithorse View Post
                              In competitive dressage the pirouette has become fundamentally like the spin in reining. Trying desperately to keep the hind feet turning in almost one spot.............
                              Uh, no. Reiners make use of a pivot foot (one). It's planted and the other hind foot pushes. Not every horse is successful, particularly in 4 spins. But that's the ideal.


                              • #16
                                Absolutely not. A really good pirouette does separate the wheat from the chaff, like a 6-7 step moving forward piaffe from a real one does. It's VERY hard to get it all correctly, and judges need to do a better job at judging it, but it is the thing that is one of the pinnacles of getting everything right. Quest is right--sitting on a good pirouette is amazing. You just know you got it right, and you HAVE to to get that feeling.

                                An excellent pirouette is 6 to 8 steps, correct bend, relaxed, and almost on the spot. The last part is the thing that only the best horses really get. It's not rewarded enough, I think.

                                And, it cannot be three beat. It's an illusion that people have put forward that just doesn't work. It is always a bit four beat. If you've ever closely watched videos or ridden one, you know.
                                Last edited by Beentheredonethat; Oct. 3, 2010, 04:08 PM. Reason: correct numbers


                                • #17
                                  My 25 yo DWB still loves doing CP. He is in favor of perfomance standards, but asks that, please, leave his CP alone.


                                  • #18
                                    I see the OP's point. It's not usually the best movement in a test but when you see a good one you remember it.
                                    Groom to trainer: "Where's the glamour? You promised me glamour!"


                                    • #19
                                      not good for the benefit of the horse

                                      I don't like the pirouettes because I do not see where they gymnastize the horse - rather I see more horses with hock problems from a lot of pirouette practice. IMO a half pirouette would be enough - logically, a way to turn around in a tight spot. The full pirouette does not make sense to me and a double I consider a circus movement.

                                      judging is another topic...
                                      Forward...go forward


                                      • #20
                                        Alpha--I disagree with you completely. I think pirouettes are a super strengthening movement. It takes a LOT to do them well and you have to be very careful. I'm actually using it as part of a focus to strengthen and even her out. And you need the full pirouette versus half to show that you can maintain the balance correctly versus using momentum. The double gets ridiculous, though.