• Welcome to the Chronicle Forums.
    Please complete your profile. The forums and the rest of www.chronofhorse.com has single sign-in, so your log in information for one will automatically work for the other. Disclaimer: The opinions expressed here are the views of the individual and do not necessarily reflect the views and opinions of The Chronicle of the Horse.

Announcement

Collapse

Forum rules and no-advertising policy

As a participant on this forum, it is your responsibility to know and follow our rules. Please read this message in its entirety.

Board Rules

1. You’re responsible for what you say.
As outlined in Section 230 of the Communications Decency Act, The Chronicle of the Horse and its affiliates, as well Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd., the developers of vBulletin, are not legally responsible for statements made in the forums.

This is a public forum viewed by a wide spectrum of people, so please be mindful of what you say and who might be reading it—details of personal disputes are likely better handled privately. While posters are legally responsible for their statements, the moderators may in their discretion remove or edit posts that violate these rules. Users have the ability to modify or delete their own messages after posting, but administrators generally will not delete posts, threads or accounts upon request.

Outright inflammatory, vulgar, harassing, malicious or otherwise inappropriate statements and criminal charges unsubstantiated by a reputable news source or legal documentation will not be tolerated and will be dealt with at the discretion of the moderators.

2. Conversations in horse-related forums should be horse-related.
The forums are a wonderful source of information and support for members of the horse community. While it’s understandably tempting to share information or search for input on other topics upon which members might have a similar level of knowledge, members must maintain the focus on horses.

3. Keep conversations productive, on topic and civil.
Discussion and disagreement are inevitable and encouraged; personal insults, diatribes and sniping comments are unproductive and unacceptable. Whether a subject is light-hearted or serious, keep posts focused on the current topic and of general interest to other participants of that thread. Utilize the private message feature or personal email where appropriate to address side topics or personal issues not related to the topic at large.

4. No advertising in the discussion forums.
Posts in the discussion forums directly or indirectly advertising horses, jobs, items or services for sale or wanted will be removed at the discretion of the moderators. Use of the private messaging feature or email addresses obtained through users’ profiles for unsolicited advertising is not permitted.

Company representatives may participate in discussions and answer questions about their products or services, or suggest their products on recent threads if they fulfill the criteria of a query. False "testimonials" provided by company affiliates posing as general consumers are not appropriate, and self-promotion of sales, ad campaigns, etc. through the discussion forums is not allowed.

Paid advertising is available on our classifieds site and through the purchase of banner ads. The tightly monitored Giveaways forum permits free listings of genuinely free horses and items available or wanted (on a limited basis). Items offered for trade are not allowed.

Advertising Policy Specifics
When in doubt of whether something you want to post constitutes advertising, please contact a moderator privately in advance for further clarification. Refer to the following points for general guidelines:

Horses – Only general discussion about the buying, leasing, selling and pricing of horses is permitted. If the post contains, or links to, the type of specific information typically found in a sales or wanted ad, and it’s related to a horse for sale, regardless of who’s selling it, it doesn’t belong in the discussion forums.

Stallions – Board members may ask for suggestions on breeding stallion recommendations. Stallion owners may reply to such queries by suggesting their own stallions, only if their horse fits the specific criteria of the original poster. Excessive promotion of a stallion by its owner or related parties is not permitted and will be addressed at the discretion of the moderators.

Services – Members may use the forums to ask for general recommendations of trainers, barns, shippers, farriers, etc., and other members may answer those requests by suggesting themselves or their company, if their services fulfill the specific criteria of the original post. Members may not solicit other members for business if it is not in response to a direct, genuine query.

Products – While members may ask for general opinions and suggestions on equipment, trailers, trucks, etc., they may not list the specific attributes for which they are in the market, as such posts serve as wanted ads.

Event Announcements – Members may post one notification of an upcoming event that may be of interest to fellow members, if the original poster does not benefit financially from the event. Such threads may not be “bumped” excessively. Premium members may post their own notices in the Event Announcements forum.

Charities/Rescues – Announcements for charitable or fundraising events can only be made for 501(c)(3) tax-exempt organizations. Special exceptions may be made, at the moderators’ discretion and direction, for board-related events or fundraising activities in extraordinary circumstances.

Occasional posts regarding horses available for adoption through IRS-registered horse rescue or placement programs are permitted in the appropriate forums, but these threads may be limited at the discretion of the moderators. Individuals may not advertise or make announcements for horses in need of rescue, placement or adoption unless the horse is available through a recognized rescue or placement agency or government-run entity or the thread fits the criteria for and is located in the Giveaways forum.

5. Do not post copyrighted photographs unless you have purchased that photo and have permission to do so.

6. Respect other members.
As members are often passionate about their beliefs and intentions can easily be misinterpreted in this type of environment, try to explore or resolve the inevitable disagreements that arise in the course of threads calmly and rationally.

If you see a post that you feel violates the rules of the board, please click the “alert” button (exclamation point inside of a triangle) in the bottom left corner of the post, which will alert ONLY the moderators to the post in question. They will then take whatever action, or no action, as deemed appropriate for the situation at their discretion. Do not air grievances regarding other posters or the moderators in the discussion forums.

Please be advised that adding another user to your “Ignore” list via your User Control Panel can be a useful tactic, which blocks posts and private messages by members whose commentary you’d rather avoid reading.

7. We have the right to reproduce statements made in the forums.
The Chronicle of the Horse may copy, quote, link to or otherwise reproduce posts, or portions of posts, in print or online for advertising or editorial purposes, if attributed to their original authors, and by posting in this forum, you hereby grant to The Chronicle of the Horse a perpetual, non-exclusive license under copyright and other rights, to do so.

8. We reserve the right to enforce and amend the rules.
The moderators may delete, edit, move or close any post or thread at any time, or refrain from doing any of the foregoing, in their discretion, and may suspend or revoke a user’s membership privileges at any time to maintain adherence to the rules and the general spirit of the forum. These rules may be amended at any time to address the current needs of the board.

Please see our full Terms of Service and Privacy Policy for more information.

Thanks for being a part of the COTH forums!

(Revised 1/26/16)
See more
See less

Rollkur? What is this about?

Collapse
X
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Rollkur? What is this about?

    I've recently switched back to dressage from the hunters after many years so forgive my "cluelessness"... but what is Rollkur? Something about overbending the neck? Please explain this training practice to me? HOnestly it sounds like bad horsemanship to me but like I mentioned I've been gone a while.

  • #2
    Oh good Lord.
    The Noodlehttp://tiny.cc/NGKmT&http://tiny.cc/gioSA
    Jinxyhttp://tiny.cc/PIC798&http://tiny.cc/jinx364
    Boy Wonderhttp://tiny.cc/G9290
    The Hana is nuts! NUTS!!http://tinyurl.com/SOCRAZY

    Comment

    • Original Poster

      #3
      oh no... have I just started a train wreck?

      Comment


      • #4
        Anky on Bonfire
        http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uz9r9zqGKhE

        I am sure that are others that know much more than I do about it

        Comment


        • #5
          Do a Search. There are so many wrecks, there is twisted steel all over the place.
          Some riders change their horse, they change their saddle, they change their teacher; they never change themselves.

          Remember the horse does all the work, we just sit there and look pretty.

          Comment


          • #6
            http://search.yahoo.com/search?ei=ut...p=rolkur&type=
            http://i756.photobucket.com/albums/x...959810_n-1.jpg

            Comment


            • #7
              Yes. Please do your own research and come to your own conclusions.

              Comment


              • #8
                Dittoing everyone else. There are PLENTY of threads about Rollkur, so go read through the old ones. I think it's safe to say that the rest of us have rollkur-fatigue. :/

                Comment


                • #9
                  It is a polarized argument over a training method that seemingly has drawn more attention in the dressage world than the other fifty disciplines that use it

                  The worst possible footage of this method have been posted to show in slow motion, fast motion, and I hate Anky motion, to show how abusive the method is.

                  The argument spans from how long is it okay to use the method, to how deep, to what posture, and what time of day it is acceptable.

                  But boils down to extremes such as: All of competative dressage is abusive. All use of bits should be prohibited. All of Anky's horses are lame because of its use.
                  ~~Member of the TB's Rule Clique ~~
                  http://www.off-breed-dressage.blogspot.com/

                  Comment

                  • Original Poster

                    #10
                    Okay, so I'm diving in...
                    after being in the hunter/jumper world (and some of that time spent in Wellington) I can say with great certainty that just because someone has gained success in their field does not mean they have done so by being morally correct at all times. Sometimes the people we look up to are not always worthy of our respect. (and let the defense of these people begin...)
                    The little I have seen of this particular training method I can say it's not for me. The horse is horribly overbent. Is this the object? This is not the kind of dressage I remember from my younger days. I'm disappointed and sadden to see that this is even considered acceptable.
                    I do not prescribe to the theory that you can not make a horse do something it doesn't want to do or it won't do if it's in pain. Not true... horses have great hearts and souls and put up with a lot of crap from us stupid humans. The end does not justify the means.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      This shouldnt be new to you.

                      When I did hunter/jumpers I saw plenty of overbent animals, even in draw reins over fences, and horses bitted to their ass at 5 am for a 7 am class.

                      Yes. Even at the largest shows in America, although by then the horses have usually been bumped down long enough to know better
                      ~~Member of the TB's Rule Clique ~~
                      http://www.off-breed-dressage.blogspot.com/

                      Comment

                      • Original Poster

                        #12
                        Originally posted by NOMIOMI1 View Post
                        This shouldnt be new to you.

                        When I did hunter/jumpers I saw plenty of overbent animals, even in draw reins over fences, and horses bitted to their ass at 5 am for a 7 am class.

                        Yes. Even at the largest shows in America, although by then the horses have usually been bumped down long enough to know better
                        Yes, I agree. i've seen this too. i just always held dressage riders at a higher level, I remember DQ's looking down their noses at anyone who considered using gadgets like martingales and draw reins to cut corners.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Most of us still look down our noses at "gadgets".

                          Comment

                          • Original Poster

                            #14
                            Originally posted by Beasmom View Post
                            Most of us still look down our noses at "gadgets".
                            I'm glad to hear it!

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by coco21 View Post
                              Yes, I agree. i've seen this too. i just always held dressage riders at a higher level, I remember DQ's looking down their noses at anyone who considered using gadgets like martingales and draw reins to cut corners.
                              I would say that there is a puristic approach to riding in dressage that is very strong, but maybe that tends to bend too far the one way.

                              Rolkur videos show one extreme, and if you go to some of the schooling shows you can see the wealth of other extremes by people who claim to be the ideal.

                              I was never fully shocked by the deep methods because I've been in many disciplines that have far darker corners of their closets, even though its not admitted.
                              ~~Member of the TB's Rule Clique ~~
                              http://www.off-breed-dressage.blogspot.com/

                              Comment


                              • #16
                                Rollkur?
                                Isn't that a Scandinavian type fish that is cured and rolled up with a pickle in it?

                                Now why would a horse want to eat that! That is cruel!

                                Call PETA (Proliferation of Ethical Treats for Animals)

                                Comment


                                • #17
                                  Ok, I don't know much about RK, but it seems to be one more technique to help the horse be flexible, overstretching it, so it can then be soft and pliable during a performance.

                                  Similar to gymnasts, that do stretches, some of them hyperstretching, so they stay very loose and then perform better.

                                  Does it work for the intended purpose?
                                  Well, some have won at the top following that technique, although that was not but a small part of all they did to train their horses.

                                  I guess it depends on how you want to train and what kind of horse you are training, if using some RK would be suitable for it.

                                  Of course, some will overuse, even abuse any technique and maybe some do RK also, if they feel that is what may give them a better performing horse, people being people.

                                  The little I know, it tells me that sure, it works, but the pitfalls for most that would try to use that are also large if they don't know what they are doing, like horses then learning one more evasion, not coming in front of your leg and breaking at the neck behind the third vertebrae and so losing a true connection from the back to your hand.
                                  In a way, RK is like using drawreins improperly, without them, just by the action of your aids.

                                  Comment


                                  • #18
                                    Originally posted by stoicfish View Post
                                    Rollkur?
                                    Isn't that a Scandinavian type fish that is cured and rolled up with a pickle in it?
                                    That's silly....
                                    rolkur are sort of like corn dogs except they are bavarian and are made with bratwurst, potato pancakes and really really hot mustard...which is cruel.
                                    * <-- RR Certified Gold Star {) <-- RR Golden Croissant Award
                                    Training Tip of the Day: If you can’t beat your best competitor, buy his horse.
                                    NO! What was the question?

                                    Comment


                                    • #19
                                      Originally posted by NOMIOMI1 View Post
                                      It is a polarized argument over a training method that seemingly has drawn more attention in the dressage world than the other fifty disciplines that use it

                                      The worst possible footage of this method have been posted to show in slow motion, fast motion, and I hate Anky motion, to show how abusive the method is.

                                      The argument spans from how long is it okay to use the method, to how deep, to what posture, and what time of day it is acceptable.

                                      But boils down to extremes such as: All of competative dressage is abusive. All use of bits should be prohibited. All of Anky's horses are lame because of its use.
                                      Thanks! I think that sums it up nicely!

                                      Comment


                                      • #20
                                        Originally posted by NOMIOMI1 View Post
                                        It is a polarized argument over a training method that seemingly has drawn more attention in the dressage world than the other fifty disciplines that use it

                                        The worst possible footage of this method have been posted to show in slow motion, fast motion, and I hate Anky motion, to show how abusive the method is.

                                        The argument spans from how long is it okay to use the method, to how deep, to what posture, and what time of day it is acceptable.

                                        But boils down to extremes such as: All of competative dressage is abusive. All use of bits should be prohibited. All of Anky's horses are lame because of its use.
                                        Not bad but it misses the part about the pickled fish.

                                        Fixerupper, what you described sounds more like Schwung.
                                        Or possible Losgelassenheit, which comes several hours after eating the hot, hot mustard.

                                        Comment

                                        Working...
                                        X