• Welcome to the Chronicle Forums.
    Please complete your profile. The forums and the rest of www.chronofhorse.com has single sign-in, so your log in information for one will automatically work for the other. Disclaimer: The opinions expressed here are the views of the individual and do not necessarily reflect the views and opinions of The Chronicle of the Horse.

Announcement

Collapse

Forum rules and no-advertising policy

As a participant on this forum, it is your responsibility to know and follow our rules. Please read this message in its entirety.

Board Rules

1. You’re responsible for what you say.
As outlined in Section 230 of the Communications Decency Act, The Chronicle of the Horse and its affiliates, as well Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd., the developers of vBulletin, are not legally responsible for statements made in the forums.

This is a public forum viewed by a wide spectrum of people, so please be mindful of what you say and who might be reading it—details of personal disputes are likely better handled privately. While posters are legally responsible for their statements, the moderators may in their discretion remove or edit posts that violate these rules. Users have the ability to modify or delete their own messages after posting, but administrators generally will not delete posts, threads or accounts upon request.

Outright inflammatory, vulgar, harassing, malicious or otherwise inappropriate statements and criminal charges unsubstantiated by a reputable news source or legal documentation will not be tolerated and will be dealt with at the discretion of the moderators.

2. Conversations in horse-related forums should be horse-related.
The forums are a wonderful source of information and support for members of the horse community. While it’s understandably tempting to share information or search for input on other topics upon which members might have a similar level of knowledge, members must maintain the focus on horses.

3. Keep conversations productive, on topic and civil.
Discussion and disagreement are inevitable and encouraged; personal insults, diatribes and sniping comments are unproductive and unacceptable. Whether a subject is light-hearted or serious, keep posts focused on the current topic and of general interest to other participants of that thread. Utilize the private message feature or personal email where appropriate to address side topics or personal issues not related to the topic at large.

4. No advertising in the discussion forums.
Posts in the discussion forums directly or indirectly advertising horses, jobs, items or services for sale or wanted will be removed at the discretion of the moderators. Use of the private messaging feature or email addresses obtained through users’ profiles for unsolicited advertising is not permitted.

Company representatives may participate in discussions and answer questions about their products or services, or suggest their products on recent threads if they fulfill the criteria of a query. False "testimonials" provided by company affiliates posing as general consumers are not appropriate, and self-promotion of sales, ad campaigns, etc. through the discussion forums is not allowed.

Paid advertising is available on our classifieds site and through the purchase of banner ads. The tightly monitored Giveaways forum permits free listings of genuinely free horses and items available or wanted (on a limited basis). Items offered for trade are not allowed.

Advertising Policy Specifics
When in doubt of whether something you want to post constitutes advertising, please contact a moderator privately in advance for further clarification. Refer to the following points for general guidelines:

Horses – Only general discussion about the buying, leasing, selling and pricing of horses is permitted. If the post contains, or links to, the type of specific information typically found in a sales or wanted ad, and it’s related to a horse for sale, regardless of who’s selling it, it doesn’t belong in the discussion forums.

Stallions – Board members may ask for suggestions on breeding stallion recommendations. Stallion owners may reply to such queries by suggesting their own stallions, only if their horse fits the specific criteria of the original poster. Excessive promotion of a stallion by its owner or related parties is not permitted and will be addressed at the discretion of the moderators.

Services – Members may use the forums to ask for general recommendations of trainers, barns, shippers, farriers, etc., and other members may answer those requests by suggesting themselves or their company, if their services fulfill the specific criteria of the original post. Members may not solicit other members for business if it is not in response to a direct, genuine query.

Products – While members may ask for general opinions and suggestions on equipment, trailers, trucks, etc., they may not list the specific attributes for which they are in the market, as such posts serve as wanted ads.

Event Announcements – Members may post one notification of an upcoming event that may be of interest to fellow members, if the original poster does not benefit financially from the event. Such threads may not be “bumped” excessively. Premium members may post their own notices in the Event Announcements forum.

Charities/Rescues – Announcements for charitable or fundraising events can only be made for 501(c)(3) tax-exempt organizations. Special exceptions may be made, at the moderators’ discretion and direction, for board-related events or fundraising activities in extraordinary circumstances.

Occasional posts regarding horses available for adoption through IRS-registered horse rescue or placement programs are permitted in the appropriate forums, but these threads may be limited at the discretion of the moderators. Individuals may not advertise or make announcements for horses in need of rescue, placement or adoption unless the horse is available through a recognized rescue or placement agency or government-run entity or the thread fits the criteria for and is located in the Giveaways forum.

5. Do not post copyrighted photographs unless you have purchased that photo and have permission to do so.

6. Respect other members.
As members are often passionate about their beliefs and intentions can easily be misinterpreted in this type of environment, try to explore or resolve the inevitable disagreements that arise in the course of threads calmly and rationally.

If you see a post that you feel violates the rules of the board, please click the “alert” button (exclamation point inside of a triangle) in the bottom left corner of the post, which will alert ONLY the moderators to the post in question. They will then take whatever action, or no action, as deemed appropriate for the situation at their discretion. Do not air grievances regarding other posters or the moderators in the discussion forums.

Please be advised that adding another user to your “Ignore” list via your User Control Panel can be a useful tactic, which blocks posts and private messages by members whose commentary you’d rather avoid reading.

7. We have the right to reproduce statements made in the forums.
The Chronicle of the Horse may copy, quote, link to or otherwise reproduce posts, or portions of posts, in print or online for advertising or editorial purposes, if attributed to their original authors, and by posting in this forum, you hereby grant to The Chronicle of the Horse a perpetual, non-exclusive license under copyright and other rights, to do so.

8. We reserve the right to enforce and amend the rules.
The moderators may delete, edit, move or close any post or thread at any time, or refrain from doing any of the foregoing, in their discretion, and may suspend or revoke a user’s membership privileges at any time to maintain adherence to the rules and the general spirit of the forum. These rules may be amended at any time to address the current needs of the board.

Please see our full Terms of Service and Privacy Policy for more information.

Thanks for being a part of the COTH forums!

(Revised 1/26/16)
See more
See less

Not an ad but a question about levels...

Collapse
X
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Not an ad but a question about levels...

    I have a horse for sale and he is on sale sites. I got a reply to my ad asking me if he could do 4th level work. I doubt it--since I have him priced between 5-8k!!! My daughter does train w/a very repescted dressage trainer. I think she would have told me that we were sitting on a "gold mine" of a horse.

    We event so I don't know what 4th level work is. Horse currently is solid at T level and can do 1st level quite easy. My daughter's trainer said at 2nd level...the rider would have their work cut out for them b/c that is when true collection is asked of the horse.

    What is a 4th level horse? i.e. what is required of a horse that is going 4th and above?

    What would one expect to pay for a 4th level horse?

    Also--for those of you who know the levels of dressage eventing can you give me a break down?

    i.e.

    Dressage

    Intro
    T
    1st
    2nd
    3rd
    4th
    PSG
    I-1
    I-2
    GP

    Eventing

    BN=(i'd gues equal to training)
    N=
    T=
    P=
    I=
    A=

  • #2
    You can find all the information that you want about the dressage tests for each level here.

    http://www.usef.org/Contentpage2.aspx?id=dressage

    The market value of your horse will be be more related to breed, age, size, soundness, conformation and current training than any factor relating to his supposed "potential."
    "Against stupidity the gods themselves contend in vain" ~Friedrich Schiller

    Comment


    • #3
      Eventing=Dressage

      BN=Training
      N=Training
      T=1st
      P=high 1st
      I=2nd
      A=third

      Comment


      • #4
        eventing levels

        If you're inquiring which level at a dressage show is equivalent to the dressage test done by an eventer at an event from what I remember Eqsiu's notes are correct. So the requirements of a dressage test for a horse at a dressage show at Training level are roughly equivalent to the requirements for a horse showing at the beginner novice level at an event.

        If you're inquiring about the relative training of event horses and dressage horses and how they compare ...meaning not the exact dressage movements required of each but rather how "educated" does the horse/rider have to be at the particular level with regard to their respective discipline I'd suggest the following as a benchmark for comparison.

        BN=Training
        N=Training/First
        T=Second/Third
        P= Fourth/PSG
        I=PSG/I1
        A=I2/GP

        But keep in mind if you have a new event horse competing at preliminary versus a seasoned competitor ...that distinction also exists in dressage - a horse that is just starting fourth level is going to be different than a seasoned fourth level horse ready to venture into PSG tests.

        There are a couple of big "cliffs" in dressage where you see the percent of horse/rider combinations drop off. The first is about 2nd level - some horses have a hard time with the introduction of collected and medium gaits as well as the lateral work. The next is at about PSG - there is a big difference in how a competent PSG horse goes versus a competent 4th level horse, again the level of engagement demanded for the collection and throughness of a PSG horse is often the factor. The last is between I1 and I2 where the movements required change substantially (for example I2 requires piaffe and passage).

        My observation is that there is a decent cliff in eventing between training and prelim and that the difference between prelim and Inter. are pretty substantial as well.
        I have no scientific basis for the opinion above just my observations from years of boarding with eventers. It should give you a decent feel for how the skills/knowledge levels of the horses compare across disciplines.

        Hope that helps.

        Comment


        • #5
          Eqsui is more accurate on the translation of the levels than Happyrider (sorry Happyrider! ) - training level eventers are most definitely not doing 2nd/3rd level work! W, T, C is really all that is required in eventing at Training level - so roughly equivalent to 1st level due to the expectation for a little more submission, etc., while lateral work, counter canter, simple changes, etc. are required in dressage at 2nd and 3rd - these things are developed progressively at P through A in eventing. Advanced level eventers are doing 3rd, possibly some aspects of 4th, so the other levels from prelim on up are a little off there too.

          If you are being asked whether or not your horse can do 4th level work, you should picture in your mind's eye what the dressage tests at Rolex look like. They are doing 4th level work - a bit more than the Advanced eventers not yet competing at the four star level.
          Treat Jockey for Spellbound and Smidgeon

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by Speedy View Post
            Eqsui is more accurate on the translation of the levels than Happyrider (sorry Happyrider! ) - training level eventers are most definitely not doing 2nd/3rd level work!
            I understood what Happyrider was comparing. She was merely comparing the progression through the levels of each sport. A Prlim Level eventing has progressed about halfway through the evening levels, the same as a Third Level dressage has progressed about halfway through the dressage levels. And a GP level horse has reached the top of the sport the same as an Advanced horse has reach the top. She was not comparing the level of dressage training, just the level of progress in the sport.

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by Zevida View Post
              I understood what Happyrider was comparing. She was merely comparing the progression through the levels of each sport. A Prlim Level eventing has progressed about halfway through the evening levels, the same as a Third Level dressage has progressed about halfway through the dressage levels. And a GP level horse has reached the top of the sport the same as an Advanced horse has reach the top. She was not comparing the level of dressage training, just the level of progress in the sport.
              Zevida, thanks for the clarification...I'm tired and stressed with prep work for leaving for two months, so I was having a hard time grasping Happyrider's break down. I kept thinking she was meaning a Training level eventer should be schooling 2nd/3rd, and was freaking out a little/laughing (most of our training level horses school a very solid First, and maybe a little 2nd, depending on their age and temperament). Your clarification makes a ton of sense! Thanks!!
              Amanda

              Comment


              • #8
                I have a horse for sale and he is on sale sites. I got a reply to my ad asking me if he could do 4th level work.
                Horse selling is, IMO, a nightmare and questions like this aren't uncommon. I was selling my (now sold) 15.3 5 year old as a lower level dressage horse for under 10k and had numerous calls asking if he could do upper level. I almost wanted to start telling poeple 'sure he can, I just like to misrepresent him as lower then he is and sell him for peanuts!' I didn;t think I could advertise him more clearly but....
                I have horse to sell to you. Horse good for riding. Can pull cart. Horse good size. Eats carrots and apples. Likes attention. Move head to music. No like opera! You like you buy.

                Comment


                • #9
                  4th level- at the highest test of the level the horse has to be able to show 3 and 4 tempis, half pirouettes at canter, med and extended trot and canter, halfpass at trot and canter and all the various transitions

                  LOL..
                  you'll get a lot of these questions, just be prepared with a party line of "it will depend on the rider"

                  seriously though, i cant beleive the number of people who will email on a TL horse and ask if it has the ability to piaffe! .. or do the all the GP work...
                  www.reidsporthorses.net

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Movements at 4th level (Test 1 - Lowest of 4 tests at this level):
                    3 Walks, Trots & Canters - Collected, medium, extended
                    Canter / Halt transitions
                    1/2 Pass (Trot & Canter)
                    Shoulder-In
                    Reinback
                    1/2 Pirouette
                    Flying Change
                    Now in Kentucky

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      What is a 4th level horse? i.e. what is required of a horse that is going 4th and above?

                      Movements at 4th level (Test 1 - Lowest of 4 tests at this level):
                      3 Walks, Trots & Canters - Collected, medium, extended
                      Canter / Halt transitions
                      1/2 Pass (Trot & Canter)
                      Shoulder-In
                      Reinback
                      1/2 Pirouette
                      Flying Change


                      Yes those are the movements required of fourth level test 1......but what really separates the chaff from the wheat is true collection, engagement (strength) and the power (impulsion) to carry it off. The movements themselves may not appear too daunting but putting them together and actually maintaining the frame of a true fourth level test/horse is something else entirely. My horse can do all those movements and we can even do them all in sequence without totally falling apart; however, it's that other "stuff" that we're really having to work on before I can call him confirmed at that level - of course just to annoy the proponents of the "tabled proposal" I'm showing 4th 1 at a recognized show in a little over a week so I guess it's all relative
                      Ranch of Last Resort

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by JackSprats Mom View Post
                        Horse selling is, IMO, a nightmare and questions like this aren't uncommon. I was selling my (now sold) 15.3 5 year old as a lower level dressage horse for under 10k and had numerous calls asking if he could do upper level. I almost wanted to start telling poeple 'sure he can, I just like to misrepresent him as lower then he is and sell him for peanuts!' I didn;t think I could advertise him more clearly but....
                        Or when someone asks me (an eventer, who bred for eventing) if the yearling has grand prix movement. I have no clue. Do I think he'll be able to event advanced? Yes, I feel he has that potential physically. Mentally, he may not want it enough or whatever. I have no idea how grand prix movers differ from a nice mover in general. How should I know if the yearling will someday have the ability to piaffe? It is not my area of expertise. Watch the video I sent you. That and being told the jumper bred hanoverian who free jumped 3'6" easily would end up 2" too short to jump 4'. Really now. 4' may be out of her reach, but it's not because she's shorter than 16.2 hh.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by reidsporthorses.nz View Post
                          4th level- at the highest test of the level the horse has to be able to show 3 and 4 tempis, half pirouettes at canter, med and extended trot and canter, halfpass at trot and canter and all the various transitions

                          LOL..
                          you'll get a lot of these questions, just be prepared with a party line of "it will depend on the rider"

                          seriously though, i cant beleive the number of people who will email on a TL horse and ask if it has the ability to piaffe! .. or do the all the GP work...
                          This is amazing to me! We have a decent 1st level horse/schooling 2nd for sale, and I think everyone who has called about her has asked if she does changes. Does she need to do changes?? Since when does schooling 2nd equate to having her changes? I also frequently get asked if she's a 4th+ potential horse...sigh...she's is what she is!

                          Selling is a pain!
                          Amanda

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by exvet View Post
                            What is a 4th level horse? i.e. what is required of a horse that is going 4th and above?

                            Movements at 4th level (Test 1 - Lowest of 4 tests at this level):
                            3 Walks, Trots & Canters - Collected, medium, extended
                            Canter / Halt transitions
                            1/2 Pass (Trot & Canter)
                            Shoulder-In
                            Reinback
                            1/2 Pirouette
                            Flying Change

                            Yes those are the movements required of fourth level test 1......but what really separates the chaff from the wheat is true collection, engagement (strength) and the power (impulsion) to carry it off. The movements themselves may not appear too daunting but putting them together and actually maintaining the frame of a true fourth level test/horse is something else entirely. My horse can do all those movements and we can even do them all in sequence without totally falling apart; however, it's that other "stuff" that we're really having to work on before I can call him confirmed at that level - of course just to annoy the proponents of the "tabled proposal" I'm showing 4th 1 at a recognized show in a little over a week so I guess it's all relative
                            I agree - but since OP sounds as if she had no clue as to what Dressage 4th level required (and I suspect her horse can NOT even perform some of those movements based on the thread), I elected NOT to go into a more subjective discussion on HOW the horse executes the movements versus WHAT (i.e. objective criteria) movements are required for 4th level.
                            Now in Kentucky

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by yellowbritches View Post
                              This is amazing to me! We have a decent 1st level horse/schooling 2nd for sale, and I think everyone who has called about her has asked if she does changes. Does she need to do changes?? Since when does schooling 2nd equate to having her changes? I also frequently get asked if she's a 4th+ potential horse...sigh...she's is what she is!

                              Selling is a pain!
                              Some lower level horse can do changes because they were taught them when horse jumped (etc...), but YOU are correct - changes are NOT required for 2nd level - not til 3rd.
                              Now in Kentucky

                              Comment

                              Working...
                              X