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Bob McDonald Banned from USEF through Safe Sport

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    I just watched Athlete A. It's just so maddening. Especially when other adults knew what was going on and chose to not do the right thing. Sadly, nothing in Athlete A surprised me. I don't know what that says about me, my experiences, or my view on humanity.

    Comment


      Originally posted by TheMoo View Post

      I was being sarcastic.
      ok, thank god lol
      Boss Mare Eventing Blog

      Comment


        Originally posted by Jealoushe View Post

        ok, thank god lol
        But really she flags every post for the mods that deal with speculation.

        Comment


          Originally posted by CanteringCarrot View Post
          I just watched Athlete A. It's just so maddening. Especially when other adults knew what was going on and chose to not do the right thing. Sadly, nothing in Athlete A surprised me. I don't know what that says about me, my experiences, or my view on humanity.
          The one thing that surprised me was how passive the parents of the one girl who did report were. I understand they were told there was an active FBI investigation and they couldn’t speak up without jeopardizing it, but how long do you think you’d be willing to believe that for? How many months without a single phone call or police interview before you marched into a police station yourself and demanded action?

          Knowing Nasser worked for the gymnastics association and continued to do so after they reported, I don’t understand why they were willing to let the association handle the situation rather than going directly to law enforcement right away themselves

          Comment


            Originally posted by BigMama1 View Post

            The one thing that surprised me was how passive the parents of the one girl who did report were. I understand they were told there was an active FBI investigation and they couldn’t speak up without jeopardizing it, but how long do you think you’d be willing to believe that for? How many months without a single phone call or police interview before you marched into a police station yourself and demanded action?

            Knowing Nasser worked for the gymnastics association and continued to do so after they reported, I don’t understand why they were willing to let the association handle the situation rather than going directly to law enforcement right away themselves
            These are the kinds of questions that constantly plague investigations of child abuse. Why did no one do more, and do it sooner? The answers are many layered, I'm sure. We don't know everything that was done, just what the documentary shows us.

            I think it is very important to also listen to the full podcast Believed. It is not a rehash of the same material. It spends much less time on USA Gymnastics, and goes into far more depth about several individual athletes and their families. Some of those questions might be answered.

            Comment


              Also watched Athlete A. I had not known that ...

              - A gallery of coaches were also accused of molestation. Nassar's case may have taken some of the attention away from an even larger problem. USA Gymnastics were getting many warnings about bad actors and pushing them all into a file drawer.

              - The USA Gymnastics president who led the cover-up for years, Steve Penney, was arrested in October 2018 for tampering with evidence. Since then he's been bonded out and is awaiting trial. He was already the 'former' president by the time of the arrest. Wow. The top level leadership never seems to be tagged in these things, but it was in this case.

              - A number of other key adults in formal leadership positions had potential charges looming over them as well, from failure to report to obstruction to other things as well. For a time, at least. Not sure that any of them have been charged, but it was serious enough to scare them, no doubt.

              I got the impression that Nassar was indiscriminate in his compulsion and ultimately that may have been his downfall. Among the accusers are 9 Olympic team members and other elite athletes. He seems to have molested almost every child that he treated, and USA Gymnastics had him in a position to treat almost every athlete at the elite level.

              If Nassar had done what many predators do and stuck to the marginal and disenfranchised, and left the Olympians and other elite gymnasts alone, I wonder if anyone would ever have gone after him seriously. Based on the way these things seem to play out. It seems the system didn't respond to earlier complaints. Not until Athlete A, at the elite level, made an accusation did more start to be done.

              Comment


                Originally posted by OverandOnward View Post

                These are the kinds of questions that constantly plague investigations of child abuse. Why did no one do more, and do it sooner? The answers are many layered, I'm sure. We don't know everything that was done, just what the documentary shows us.

                I think it is very important to also listen to the full podcast Believed. It is not a rehash of the same material. It spends much less time on USA Gymnastics, and goes into far more depth about several individual athletes and their families. Some of those questions might be answered.
                On the why did no one do more and sooner I honestly believe people cannot really grasp these kinds of things. In regards to the creeps I came across as mentioned in an earlier post I have told federations, parents and organisations and no one seem to care. Some are "but that is awful" and then move along like something never happened and as soon as those creepy guys waves a free photo in front of the parents they share and praise them on social media. Even people who seen print screens of the messages sent to young girls

                At the youth euros in France the other year one man I have never seen before and with no official accreditation what so ever approached junior riders for their contact details by the start for cross country. And since he had an oversized camera and lens hanging over his shoulder the girls just gave him what he asked for. For sure the majority of them would never EVER do that if they were walking down the street and ended up in a similar situation..

                Where can I find the pod cast?
                I love horses, eventing and good dining!
                Blogging at www.eventingmania.com

                Comment


                  Athlete A was very informative. They didn't talk about Safe Sport which was really unfortunate. I feel that it was a lost opportunity to educate people on the origin of this new regulation. If USEF/SafeSport would connect the dots like this show did I bet there would be much less push back to SafeSport. I know I learned a lot about the extent of the corruption and abuse- 500 girls with just Nassar alone, and that doesn't include the other coaches/leaders.


                  Comment


                    Originally posted by BigMama1 View Post

                    The one thing that surprised me was how passive the parents of the one girl who did report were. I understand they were told there was an active FBI investigation and they couldn’t speak up without jeopardizing it, but how long do you think you’d be willing to believe that for? How many months without a single phone call or police interview before you marched into a police station yourself and demanded action?

                    Knowing Nasser worked for the gymnastics association and continued to do so after they reported, I don’t understand why they were willing to let the association handle the situation rather than going directly to law enforcement right away themselves
                    I think they didn't want to rock the boat and mess up their kid's shot at getting a spot on the Olympic team. I believe one athlete who did tell was passed over.
                    The armchair saddler
                    Politically Pro-Cat

                    Comment


                      Originally posted by mvp View Post

                      I think they didn't want to rock the boat and mess up their kid's shot at getting a spot on the Olympic team. I believe one athlete who did tell was passed over.
                      Yes, that’s the family I was talking about. It’s clear she was passed over as retaliation for speaking out. And her parents did the right thing and reported as soon as they learned about the abuse. It’s just sad that they were so willing to believe the sport was doing the rig hut thi nf, when at the same time they knew Nasser was still there. So much cognitive dissonance required.

                      Comment


                        Originally posted by mvp View Post

                        I think they didn't want to rock the boat and mess up their kid's shot at getting a spot on the Olympic team. I believe one athlete who did tell was passed over.
                        they were being told there was an ongoing investigating, how where they to know this was a lie? Also, remember they could not call the training center and talk to their daughter (Maddie?) on the phone.

                        Comment


                          Originally posted by eventingmania View Post
                          .........Where can I find the pod cast?
                          https://www.npr.org/podcasts/510326/believed

                          If you have a podcast app on your mobile, you may be able to bring it up on a Search.

                          It details many of the girls' individual stories, going back many years, long before the case got so much attention. It's lengthy and it's upsetting. But incredibly educational about all of the ways that various people reacted to each situation. Not always in a good way.

                          I think these reactions are quite likely an inside look at how molestation suspicions and charges often work out, generally speaking.

                          One of the most valuable parts of the podcast, IMO, is the detailed explanation of the bogus treatment practices employed by Nassar. IMO, it is important to understanding that Nassar was a medical fraud, aside from preying on the gymnasts. He was snowing people with his "medical" BS, creating a circle of supporters/enablers. Even LE bought it, until a trained interrogator finally came into the picture. To me, this is critical to understanding how someone like Nassar can maintain his access to his chosen victims for years and years. And even get the organization and the parent community to endorse him - and send his prey to him !!!!

                          Can we think of a few predators in the equestrian world who might be accomplishing the same sort of thing? Snowing people with "expert" fakery or one kind or another, creating a circle of admirers who sustain and defend him/her, and thereby enabling ongoing access to their target victims, for *years*?

                          I also think that a key part of the podcast and the documentary is the LE officer who was trained and experienced in interrogation who saw through Nassar. Someone who did not need medical training to see his evasion and lying, and spot when he was spouting medical hooey. The first encounters with LE did not see the truth because they did not have the necessary training and background specifically in interrogation. Most liars give themselves away, but we don't see it if we don't know what to look for (not Hollywood/Facebook claptrap about eyes looking this way or that).

                          The podcast illustrates why experts are necessary to uncover the truth in certain cases. SS seems to be using such experts.

                          Comment


                            Originally posted by Jealoushe View Post

                            it is most definitely NOT LadyB. I can attest to that much.
                            I feel flattered I was even thought of, although no clue what is going on here. Thanks for the back up Jealoushe

                            Comment


                              Originally posted by mvp View Post

                              I think they didn't want to rock the boat and mess up their kid's shot at getting a spot on the Olympic team. I believe one athlete who did tell was passed over.
                              That was the featured athlete in the documentary, Athlete A, Maggie Nichols. She wasn't the sole focus of the documentary, but hers was the story they used to illustrate how the system was using and controlling the athletes to minimize/deny the allegations.

                              It showed her at the selection trials as the 5th ranked (or 7th?) ranked female gymnast in the nation. The 5 team and 3 alternates were made up of the others on the list, but skipped her.

                              I got the impression that it wasn't a secret in the gymnastics world that she (and others) had reported Nassar. So it had to make an impression when she was passed over for the team.

                              Comment


                                For the record, USA Gymnastics terminated Nassar in 2015, after at least two reports recent to that time. (Reports are said to have gone back as early as the 1990's.)

                                However, they did not tell anyone why he was terminated, so he continued to practice elsewhere for another 15 months. The documentary presents it that the growing media attention is very probably what contributed to an aggressive investigation, and finally a prosecution.

                                Another interesting light on the compulsiveness of his behavior is that he continued abusing athletes even after his termination. He had to realize that this could lead to more reports and closer investigation, and finally being outed. As did happen. But it seems he never stopped until he was arrested.

                                Comment


                                  Originally posted by OverandOnward View Post
                                  For the record, USA Gymnastics terminated Nassar in 2015, after at least two reports recent to that time. (Reports are said to have gone back as early as the 1990's.)

                                  However, they did not tell anyone why he was terminated, so he continued to practice elsewhere for another 15 months. The documentary presents it that the growing media attention is very probably what contributed to an aggressive investigation, and finally a prosecution.

                                  Another interesting light on the compulsiveness of his behavior is that he continued abusing athletes even after his termination. He had to realize that this could lead to more reports and closer investigation, and finally being outed. As did happen. But it seems he never stopped until he was arrested.
                                  Oh wow. I don't remember seeing that he'd continued molesting girls until the arrest. It just goes to show that predators like that just don't change.

                                  Comment


                                    Originally posted by OverandOnward View Post

                                    That was the featured athlete in the documentary, Athlete A, Maggie Nichols. She wasn't the sole focus of the documentary, but hers was the story they used to illustrate how the system was using and controlling the athletes to minimize/deny the allegations.

                                    It showed her at the selection trials as the 5th ranked (or 7th?) ranked female gymnast in the nation. The 5 team and 3 alternates were made up of the others on the list, but skipped her.

                                    I got the impression that it wasn't a secret in the gymnastics world that she (and others) had reported Nassar. So it had to make an impression when she was passed over for the team.
                                    Thank you for the more complete synopsis.

                                    I do think that the athletes and parents involved knew that they were in a STFU situation with USA Gymnastics if they wanted to stay in contention for getting on the Olympic team. And several of them (mainly Maggie Nichols' mom, IIRC) said that they believed USAG was taking action. Insofar as those athletes work and hard and use of their bodies significantly at that level and might not get a second shot to have that culminate in a chance to compete at the Olympic games, I truly understand the compliance.
                                    The armchair saddler
                                    Politically Pro-Cat

                                    Comment


                                      Originally posted by mvp View Post

                                      Thank you for the more complete synopsis.

                                      I do think that the athletes and parents involved knew that they were in a STFU situation with USA Gymnastics if they wanted to stay in contention for getting on the Olympic team. And several of them (mainly Maggie Nichols' mom, IIRC) said that they believed USAG was taking action. Insofar as those athletes work and hard and use of their bodies significantly at that level and might not get a second shot to have that culminate in a chance to compete at the Olympic games, I truly understand the compliance.
                                      Maggie's parents said several times they were told there was an FBI investigation. I don't believe they were compliant as much as your post makes them think, but they knew who held the power and it wasn't them. Remember the parents were not able to freely talk to the girls during training and kept getting fed a story. It's a mess, basically. I feel bad for Maggie but glad she was able to move on.

                                      Comment


                                        "George will say, like most men his or even my age, the 70’s especially were a crazy time and men and women, gay and straight, did crazy things."- R.D.

                                        Does Dover not realize that the above statement, given the context of G.M.'s behavior, only leads one to wonder about the crazy things G.M. did?

                                        Comment


                                          Originally posted by alicen View Post
                                          "George will say, like most men his or even my age, the 70’s especially were a crazy time and men and women, gay and straight, did crazy things."- R.D.

                                          Does Dover not realize that the above statement, given the context of G.M.'s behavior, only leads one to wonder about the crazy things G.M. did?
                                          I keep having to say it, Dover is lost in an intersectional crisis where he believes he's defending a gay man from attack of a heteronormative culture, but really he is protecting a sexual predator who preferred to target tween boys.

                                          And Dover believes this because it is what he wants to believe, and he is willfully blind to the real crisis in the sport and the voices of survivors.
                                          Let me apologize in advance.

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