Announcement

Collapse

Forum rules and no-advertising policy

As a participant on this forum, it is your responsibility to know and follow our rules. Please read this message in its entirety.

Board Rules

1. You're responsible for what you say.
As outlined in Section 230 of the Communications Decency Act, The Chronicle of the Horse and its affiliates, as well Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd., the developers of vBulletin, are not legally responsible for statements made in the Forums.

This is a public forum viewed by a wide spectrum of people, so please be mindful of what you say and who might be reading it--details of personal disputes may be better handled privately. While posters are legally responsible for their statements, the moderators may in their discretion remove or edit posts, though are not legally obligated to do so, regardless of content.

Users have the ability to modify or delete their own messages after posting. Moderators generally will not delete posts, threads or accounts unless they have been alerted and have determined that a post, thread or user has violated the Forums' policies. Moderators do not regularly independently monitor the Forums for such violations.

Profanity, outright vulgarity, blatant personal insults or otherwise inappropriate statements will not be tolerated and will be dealt with at the discretion of the moderators.

Users may provide their positive or negative experiences with or opinions of companies, products, individuals, etc.; however, accounts involving allegations of criminal behavior against named individuals or companies MUST be first-hand accounts and may NOT be made anonymously.

If a situation has been reported upon by a reputable news source or addressed by law enforcement or the legal system it is open for discussion, but if an individual wants to make their own claims of criminal behavior against a named party in the course of that discussion, they too must identify themselves by first and last name and the account must be first-person.

Criminal allegations that do not satisfy these requirements, when brought to our attention, may be removed pending satisfaction of these criteria, and we reserve the right to err on the side of caution when making these determinations.

Credible threats of suicide will be reported to the police along with identifying user information at our disposal, in addition to referring the user to suicide helpline resources such as 1-800-SUICIDE or 1-800-273-TALK.

2. Conversations in horse-related forums should be horse-related.
The forums are a wonderful source of information and support for members of the horse community. While it's understandably tempting to share information or search for input on other topics upon which members might have a similar level of knowledge, members must maintain the focus on horses.

3. Keep conversations productive, on topic and civil.
Discussion and disagreement are inevitable and encouraged; personal insults, diatribes and sniping comments are unproductive and unacceptable. Whether a subject is light-hearted or serious, keep posts focused on the current topic and of general interest to other participants of that thread. Utilize the private message feature or personal email where appropriate to address side topics or personal issues not related to the topic at large.

4. No advertising in the discussion forums.
Posts in the discussion forums directly or indirectly advertising horses, jobs, items or services for sale or wanted will be removed at the discretion of the moderators. Use of the private messaging feature or email addresses obtained through users' profiles for unsolicited advertising is not permitted.

Company representatives may participate in discussions and answer questions about their products or services, or suggest their products on recent threads if they fulfill the criteria of a query. False "testimonials" provided by company affiliates posing as general consumers are not appropriate, and self-promotion of sales, ad campaigns, etc. through the discussion forums is not allowed.

Paid advertising is available on our classifieds site and through the purchase of banner ads. The tightly monitored Giveaways forum permits free listings of genuinely free horses and items available or wanted (on a limited basis). Items offered for trade are not allowed.

Advertising Policy Specifics
When in doubt of whether something you want to post constitutes advertising, please contact a moderator privately in advance for further clarification. Refer to the following points for general guidelines:

Horses -- Only general discussion about the buying, leasing, selling and pricing of horses is permitted. If the post contains, or links to, the type of specific information typically found in a sales or wanted ad, and it's related to a horse for sale, regardless of who's selling it, it doesn't belong in the discussion forums.

Stallions -- Board members may ask for suggestions on breeding stallion recommendations. Stallion owners may reply to such queries by suggesting their own stallions, only if their horse fits the specific criteria of the original poster. Excessive promotion of a stallion by its owner or related parties is not permitted and will be addressed at the discretion of the moderators.

Services -- Members may use the forums to ask for general recommendations of trainers, barns, shippers, farriers, etc., and other members may answer those requests by suggesting themselves or their company, if their services fulfill the specific criteria of the original post. Members may not solicit other members for business if it is not in response to a direct, genuine query.

Products -- While members may ask for general opinions and suggestions on equipment, trailers, trucks, etc., they may not list the specific attributes for which they are in the market, as such posts serve as wanted ads.

Event Announcements -- Members may post one notification of an upcoming event that may be of interest to fellow members, if the original poster does not benefit financially from the event. Such threads may not be "bumped" excessively. Premium members may post their own notices in the Event Announcements forum.

Charities/Rescues -- Announcements for charitable or fundraising events can only be made for 501(c)(3) tax-exempt organizations. Special exceptions may be made, at the moderators' discretion and direction, for board-related events or fundraising activities in extraordinary circumstances.

Occasional posts regarding horses available for adoption through IRS-registered horse rescue or placement programs are permitted in the appropriate forums, but these threads may be limited at the discretion of the moderators. Individuals may not advertise or make announcements for horses in need of rescue, placement or adoption unless the horse is available through a recognized rescue or placement agency or government-run entity or the thread fits the criteria for and is located in the Giveaways forum.

5. Do not post copyrighted photographs unless you have purchased that photo and have permission to do so.

6. Respect other members.
As members are often passionate about their beliefs and intentions can easily be misinterpreted in this type of environment, try to explore or resolve the inevitable disagreements that arise in the course of threads calmly and rationally.

If you see a post that you feel violates the rules of the board, please click the �alert� button (exclamation point inside of a triangle) in the bottom left corner of the post, which will alert ONLY the moderators to the post in question. They will then take whatever action, or no action, as deemed appropriate for the situation at their discretion. Do not air grievances regarding other posters or the moderators in the discussion forums.

Please be advised that adding another user to your �Ignore� list via your User Control Panel can be a useful tactic, which blocks posts and private messages by members whose commentary you'd rather avoid reading.

7. We have the right to reproduce statements made in the forums.
The Chronicle of the Horse may copy, quote, link to or otherwise reproduce posts, or portions of posts, in print or online for advertising or editorial purposes, if attributed to their original authors, and by posting in this forum, you hereby grant to The Chronicle of the Horse a perpetual, non-exclusive license under copyright and other rights, to do so.

8. We reserve the right to enforce and amend the rules.
The moderators may delete, edit, move or close any post or thread at any time, or refrain from doing any of the foregoing, in their discretion, and may suspend or revoke a user's membership privileges at any time to maintain adherence to the rules and the general spirit of the forum. These rules may be amended at any time to address the current needs of the board.

Please see our full Terms of Service and Privacy Policy for more information.

Thanks for being a part of the COTH forums!

(Revised 5/9/18)
See more
See less

Bits. Are the expensive ones really worth it?

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

    Bits. Are the expensive ones really worth it?

    As the title says. I've read some of the bit threads in here, and it's got me wondering. My budget isn't going to allow me to "trial and error" $200 bits. Some of you swear by the NS and the novoform style. I also wonder why a single jointed snaffle is 'better' for a horse not confident in contact than the double jointed?

    My general go-to is JP Korsteel brand. Horses seem to like them, they don't break the bank. BUT... (always an exception, huh) my mare is decidedly difficult in the mouth. <Her dental is done, she's fine physically>

    So, I was wondering if it might be worth it to try the single jointed NovoContact: https://www.doversaddlery.com/hs-nov...t/p/X1-010892/

    Thoughts?


    #2
    It 100% depends on the horse

    I highly recommend trialing the expensive bits. Dressage Extensions has a good selection and charges something like $15 for a two week trial.

    Comment


      #3
      Obsidian Fire, yes, it can be worth spending the money. I bought the Novocontact bit for a fussy Welsh cob. It worked great for him. He has been sold and my warmblood pony did not go as well in it so it is sitting in my tack box and needs to go. I would also advise renting it first. Right now, I'm going through bit trials with my mare and cringe at the thought of spending big $$$ to experiment.

      Comment


        #4
        I went into my local Dover (yes, I'm super lucky!) and they said that I had 30 days to return the bit if it didn't work. So while you may have to dish out the money initially, they were super about letting me return it if it wasn't working for me and my horse. I was talking about Mylers (I wasn't sure which level might be best), but they didn't stipulate that it was only for that brand.

        Also, try calling Smartpak retail in MA, because of Covid-19 they are offering virtual shopping and their clearance section is killer! I've gotten crazy good deals there. I found the Stubben that I use now for 75% off! That discount put it in the same price point as the JP Korsteel. I have a small bit obsession, but I've been super happy with how my ex-driving DHH goes in it. https://www.smartpakequine.com/pt/st...hoCBroQAvD_BwE
        When the student is ready, the teacher will appear.

        Comment


          #5
          When you find the right bit, it is worth it. I second trialling some bits.

          Comment


            #6
            Yes, definitely do bit trials. It can be frustrating, but if you find one that your horse really likes, it's worth it.

            As another poster said on a different bit thread: horses seem to take their bits personally. What works for one often will not work for another.
            "The formula 'Two and two make five' is not without its attractions." --Dostoevsky

            Comment


              #7
              It's worth it for the right bit. However, the right bit isn't always the most expensive. I used a Novocontact on my mare when I first got her and she knew nothing about contact. Now that she is confident about taking the bit forward, she is going fine in a $30 Korsteel curved mouth.

              For the expensive bits, I buy used on eBay and then resell and get most of my money back if they don't work or I no longer need them. The nice thing about NS and HS bits is they're always in demand, so not hard to resell unless it's a really large or small size.

              Comment


                #8
                Originally posted by outerbanks77 View Post
                The nice thing about NS and HS bits is they're always in demand, so not hard to resell unless it's a really large or small size.
                This is my trouble, I need a 4.5", and preferably an eggbutt impossible to find used, and I'm not itching to drop $200+ on a new one. Darn pony mouth.

                OP, as mentioned Dressage Extensions does trials, and The Collected Pony has a trial program as well (which offers smaller size options). I don't know if we have anyone around here who does them, but a 'bit fitting clinic' might also be a good option to be able to try a bunch.

                Comment


                  #9
                  I find that the aurigan (HS) bits help with a softer, moister mouth. I haven’t tried the sensogan ones because what I have works well on my current horses.
                  Banter whenever you want to banter....canter whenever you want to canter.

                  Comment


                    #10
                    Something I learned at a bitting clinic a few years ago:

                    One of the reasons the really expensive bits (KK Ultra, NS, etc) are so expensive is that they contain a much higher content of copper in the alloy they're made of. This makes them a lot warmer in the horse's mouth, as opposed to steel or titatnium that just don't hold warmth as well. It is one of the thing that makes a lot of horses more comfortable in them. More copper also means they're more expensive to make. So, where I thought it was just the name on the bit that made it expensive, there is a legitimate materials issue.

                    I do find the more expensive bits to be worth it, largely because they come in more styles that are more nuanced. I've had a lot of horses with small mouths, or ones that need narrow mouthpieces. Those just seem harder to find in the cheaper steel bits.
                    Here Be Dragons: My blog about venturing beyond the lower levels as a dressage amateur.

                    Comment


                      #11
                      OK, I'll stick my neck out and be the nay-sayer here. My trainer (older gentleman from Europe) has ridden and trained innumerable horses to GP. He starts them all in some kind of simple snaffle (eggbutt, loose ring, etc.) either single or double jointed. Once the foundation is laid and the horse is well-schooled, he moves them into the double bridle with ancient, simple bradoons and weymouths. His saddles are equally ancient, hard and rarely padded or huge knee-rolls. I've ridden many of his upper level horses and they are obedient, supple and correct.

                      That said, I do have a comfy dressage saddle and an ergonomic double jointed Stubben bit my opinionated mare likes. But the bit was $60 on sale and is VERY similar to a Neue Schule $160 snaffle. So...if you know what works for you and your horse, you can find it without breaking the bank. There are huge sales these days and/or you can find KKs and NS bits on Ebay or Facebook sale sites.
                      Savor those rides where you feel like a million bucks, because there will be those where you feel like a cheap date...

                      Comment


                        #12
                        Originally posted by eponacelt View Post
                        Something I learned at a bitting clinic a few years ago:

                        One of the reasons the really expensive bits (KK Ultra, NS, etc) are so expensive is that they contain a much higher content of copper in the alloy they're made of. This makes them a lot warmer in the horse's mouth, as opposed to steel or titatnium that just don't hold warmth as well. It is one of the thing that makes a lot of horses more comfortable in them. More copper also means they're more expensive to make. So, where I thought it was just the name on the bit that made it expensive, there is a legitimate materials issue.

                        I do find the more expensive bits to be worth it, largely because they come in more styles that are more nuanced. I've had a lot of horses with small mouths, or ones that need narrow mouthpieces. Those just seem harder to find in the cheaper steel bits.
                        The parts in bold are totally marketing.....the name "Aurigian" is just a "red brass".....nothing fancy here.

                        The brass alloys have a higher coefficient of heat transfer than stainless alloys......but once the bit is warmed up in the horse's mouth, the bit's temperature stabilizes at the temperature of the horse's mouth.
                        Do not confuse motion and progress. A rocking horse keeps moving but does not make any progress.
                        Alfred A. Montapert

                        Comment


                          #13
                          Originally posted by Obsidian Fire View Post
                          As the title says. I've read some of the bit threads in here, and it's got me wondering. My budget isn't going to allow me to "trial and error" $200 bits. Some of you swear by the NS and the novoform style. I also wonder why a single jointed snaffle is 'better' for a horse not confident in contact than the double jointed?

                          My general go-to is JP Korsteel brand. Horses seem to like them, they don't break the bank. BUT... (always an exception, huh) my mare is decidedly difficult in the mouth. <Her dental is done, she's fine physically>

                          So, I was wondering if it might be worth it to try the single jointed NovoContact: https://www.doversaddlery.com/hs-nov...t/p/X1-010892/

                          Thoughts?
                          Where I come from, that bit may have the mouthpiece integrated into the rings in an "eggbutt" way, but those are Dee rings on the bit.

                          I try and use variations on french mouths on every horse.

                          That said, I love my KKs- and mine are all older. I have used them on any number of the horses who pass through here- and, they are truly tested. The horses that I repurpose have been started with their tongues tied, and with bits that are not acceptable by USDF. I have a very favorite KK that has a really cool rubber doohickie on the lozenge in the center, and all of the horses who have come to me with the warning "you HAVE to tie his tongue" love it, and they keep their tongues where they belong. I have about seven KKs of different sizes and cheeks, but I love all of them.

                          I do own a couple of those newfangled bits that are different levels- I bought them because I thought they might be effective for certain horses. I am not impressed.

                          Now, I do have imitations of the KKs- in terms of configuration. Sometimes, they are fine. But all in all, the KKs rule.
                          When someone shows you who they are, BELIEVE them- Maya Angelou
                          www.americansaddlebredsporthorse.net
                          http://www.asbsporthorse.blogspot.com/

                          Comment


                            #14
                            Originally posted by eponacelt View Post
                            So, where I thought it was just the name on the bit that made it expensive, there is a legitimate materials issue.
                            Interestingly, I bought a NS bit close to 15 years ago (so well before they became the Newest Trendy Thing in dressage, and well before they were carried by US shops) and they were not so ridiculously overpriced at that time.

                            ​​​​​​

                            Comment


                              #15
                              One thing that may or may not make them worth it to you --

                              Generally, the more expensive bits come with better research and development behind the product. Example being the HS Dynamic RS, which has a fair amount of research behind the shape and structure. You can still get an HS bit for $50, but it won't have the same ergonomic shape.

                              I'm okay with paying that extra bit since, to me its worth it. That is how I feel about Charles Owen helmets as well, which for the last two decades or so, has been one of the only helmet manufacturers on the market that has paid to back up their product with re$earch.
                              AETERNUM VALE, INVICTUS - 7/10/2012

                              Comment


                                #16
                                Originally posted by Fellbutbackup
                                Gonna have to ask your horse.
                                It might also be useful to have someone else choose the bit, put it on your bridle, and bridle your horse so that you don't know which bit is in his mouth when you're riding him. IMO, it's the only good way to evaluate anything, because once the evaluator knows how much each item cost then you've introduced bias.

                                Comment

                                  Original Poster

                                  #17
                                  Originally posted by Lusoluv View Post
                                  OK, I'll stick my neck out and be the nay-sayer here. My trainer (older gentleman from Europe) has ridden and trained innumerable horses to GP. He starts them all in some kind of simple snaffle (eggbutt, loose ring, etc.) either single or double jointed. Once the foundation is laid and the horse is well-schooled, he moves them into the double bridle with ancient, simple bradoons and weymouths. His saddles are equally ancient, hard and rarely padded or huge knee-rolls. I've ridden many of his upper level horses and they are obedient, supple and correct.s.
                                  HAH! Me too! I have never really cared about the "special" stuff until miss princess came along. So long as things fit, off we go.

                                  But the princess, oh boy. What can I say?

                                  Comment

                                    Original Poster

                                    #18
                                    Thanks for the tip about trialing bits thru Dressage Extensions. I was able to order both styles (single and double jointed) of the NovoContact, so we shall see!

                                    Comment


                                      #19
                                      I'll jump on the train that it is worth it.

                                      Here's the thing, I have ridden many horses that, until we tried a different bit, their issues were thought to be training/rider issues. My personal horse was fussy, went from the HS dynamic RS to the NS turtle top and he was a different horse (he jumped in a cheap dr bristol great until I tried jumping him in his double which was even better). A client's horse was a different animal after putting him in a mylar, my mother's horse, who was winning at 2nd lvl and went to champs at 3rd level and was taking lessons with top trainer with a single jointed snaffle suddenly is a different horse after trying a few NS bits.

                                      The moral of the story is, sometimes you don't know that there is an issue until you try something that the horse likes more and suddenly many of your problems are solved. My go to bits are now the NS tranz angled eggbutt and the NS verbindin. I like HS bits but they don't offer the same variety in shapes that NS does. Can horses go well in cheaper bits? Sure! But you might not know that you're missing.
                                      "I'm too sexy for my blanket, too sexy for my blanket, these mares-they should take it..." (J-Lu) - Featuring The Skypizzle Pony aka Classic Skyline

                                      Comment


                                        #20
                                        Going to go with "the horse can't read the price tag". I tried all the fancy bits, spent a fortune on those lovely KKs and my mare just wasn't having it. Went best in an ancient no-brand thin dog bone french link I found in a box at a consignment shop and had paid $5 for. When she physically outgrew it, I replaced it with an albacon that was similar in design & thickness and eventually moved her over to a mylar. So ask your friends and try some "out of the box" ideas and see what your pony likes.

                                        Comment

                                        Working...
                                        X