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Jeremy Steinberg - Between the Rounds Year in Review

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  • Jeremy Steinberg - Between the Rounds Year in Review

    If you haven't read Jeremy's article in the Chronicle, I encourage you to read it! I think he expresses what many of us feel about George Morris, Michael Barisone, Safe Sport and Depression. More than his views on those topics, I appreciate his comments at the beginning of his article about the top riders' sponsors buying them the latest and greatest mount for competition. I also miss the days when the top riders were also the top trainers and trained their own horses from the ground up.

    Here is a link to this wonderful article: https://www.facebook.com/jeremystein...type=3&theater
    Last edited by eggbutt; Jan. 27, 2020, 03:12 PM.

  • #2
    He's been added to my list of asshats that think that child molesters should just be allowed to continue making money in the sport without repercussions. Just because Barney Ward still went to shows doesn't mean that's what should have happened.

    Comment


    • #3
      Wow---I can't say I was overly impressed with Steinberg's training, having been witness to several clinics that were disappointing at best. Now I can gladly say that not only do I think he's a mediocre trainer, I think he's an abysmal person.

      Comment


      • #4
        Barney Ward was banned from all recognized shows. The difference was he could still teach and train.

        Comment


        • #5
          Well.
          He lost me at being disappointed in Stephan for not starting a foundation or nonprofit for riders suffering depression, instead of writing about it.
          It went downhill from there.
          Ick.
          Last edited by Arlomine; Jan. 24, 2020, 09:57 AM.

          Comment


          • #6
            I was disappointed in that part of Steinberg's essay as well.

            I think he has misunderstood some details about how the SafeSport bans and their Aiding and Abetting clause works (and SafeSport's mission as it explains that clause) vs. why Barney Ward, Paul Valliere and others kept their businesses intact.

            That said, the reason SafeSport did what it did was a worse version of governing bodies allowing pedophiles continued access to children via teaching. And I think it's a piss-poor argument to trot out the AHSA's toothlessness with respect to those trainers as a basis for criticizing SafeSport's closing the loophole. I mean, why race to the bottom?

            And as is always, always true-- organizations can police themselves well or wait for the rot to get so bad that the public smells it and steps in. Witness the USDA and the walking horses and USA Gymnastics and Larry Nassar. I know sexual predators were not on the USEF's radar, but once that organization got the help of SafeSport, it's hard to argue that the professional organization ought to prioritize the professional opportunities of its pedophiles over the protection of children from them.

            Anyone want to explain that history to Steinberg? I mean I don't think he condones putting children in harm's way. But he writes in defense of that because of his ignorance of the details.
            The armchair saddler
            Politically Pro-Cat

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by mvp View Post
              I was disappointed in that part of Steinberg's essay as well.

              I think he has misunderstood some details about how the SafeSport bans and their Aiding and Abetting clause works (and SafeSport's mission as it explains that clause) vs. why Barney Ward, Paul Valliere and others kept their businesses intact.

              That said, the reason SafeSport did what it did was a worse version of governing bodies allowing pedophiles continued access to children via teaching. And I think it's a piss-poor argument to trot out the AHSA's toothlessness with respect to those trainers as a basis for criticizing SafeSport's closing the loophole. I mean, why race to the bottom?

              And as is always, always true-- organizations can police themselves well or wait for the rot to get so bad that the public smells it and steps in. Witness the USDA and the walking horses and USA Gymnastics and Larry Nassar. I know sexual predators were not on the USEF's radar, but once that organization got the help of SafeSport, it's hard to argue that the professional organization ought to prioritize the professional opportunities of its pedophiles over the protection of children from them.

              Anyone want to explain that history to Steinberg? I mean I don't think he condones putting children in harm's way. But he writes in defense of that because of his ignorance of the details.
              I was coming here to say almost exactly that - and now I don’t have to.

              Comment


              • #8
                Who is he casting shade upon with the "buy a horse the year before the Olympics" comment? Four Winds Farm acquired Suppenkasper in 2017...do you think that was another jab at Peters?

                Comment


                • #9
                  I think any person, (coach, trainer, team mom, whatever), in any sport, Olympic or not, who uses their position and access to children/teens to sexually or emotionally prey on them deserves to be banned forever. No discussion needed.
                  As to what will poor George do to get three meals a day? I hear McDonalds is usually hiring, and you get free meals while working.

                  Comment

                  • Original Poster

                    #10
                    I know very little about George Morris other than growing up hearing the name from jumper folks and, of course, the SS charges. Was he ever charged with a crime in the courts?

                    The part of this that concerns me is private citizen Jane Doe who is also a USEF member is not allowed to take a lesson from GM or have him teach a clinic at her facility. I don't like SS, or anyone, telling any of us what we can and can't do that is legal by the law to do.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      I think it's great that there is some supervision on the behavior of trainers, but I do worry about some of the rules.
                      I grew up with a trainer who was like a second mother to me. I did EVERYTHING with her. We shared hotel rooms, she bought me clothes, she cooked me dinner...I spent more time with her than any of my other family members for years.From what I understand of SS that would be unacceptable today. I may have misinterpreted what I read about SS, and if so I'd love to be more informed, but that is what I understood of it.

                      Comment

                      • Original Poster

                        #12
                        Originally posted by Omgitsme View Post
                        I think it's great that there is some supervision on the behavior of trainers, but I do worry about some of the rules.
                        I grew up with a trainer who was like a second mother to me. I did EVERYTHING with her. We shared hotel rooms, she bought me clothes, she cooked me dinner...I spent more time with her than any of my other family members for years.From what I understand of SS that would be unacceptable today. I may have misinterpreted what I read about SS, and if so I'd love to be more informed, but that is what I understood of it.
                        I have the same understanding. That's just crazy IMO.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by eggbutt View Post
                          The part of this that concerns me is private citizen Jane Doe who is also a USEF member is not allowed to take a lesson from GM or have him teach a clinic at her facility. I don't like SS, or anyone, telling any of us what we can and can't do that is legal by the law to do.
                          If private citizen Jane Doe doesn’t like the USEF rules, she doesn’t have to be a member. USEF tells its members a lot of things they can’t do that are “legal by the law to do.” For instance, horse medication rules. Most of the medications prohibited by USEF are perfectly legal to give your horse.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by eggbutt View Post
                            I know very little about George Morris other than growing up hearing the name from jumper folks and, of course, the SS charges. Was he ever charged with a crime in the courts?

                            The part of this that concerns me is private citizen Jane Doe who is also a USEF member is not allowed to take a lesson from GM or have him teach a clinic at her facility. I don't like SS, or anyone, telling any of us what we can and can't do that is legal by the law to do.
                            Then you should quit the USEF and have a lesson with him.

                            Of course, had it been the case that the justice system were better at prosecuting pedophiles, you'd find someone like Morris charged with a crime. And you know what? It still wouldn't be illegal to have him teach at your place.

                            So which standard did you want to employ such that you can't have anyone tell you not to put money in a child molester's pocket?
                            The armchair saddler
                            Politically Pro-Cat

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by mishmash View Post
                              I think any person, (coach, trainer, team mom, whatever), in any sport, Olympic or not, who uses their position and access to children/teens to sexually or emotionally prey on them deserves to be banned forever. No discussion needed.
                              Iknowright? When was it unclear to anyone (I'm looking at you, no lesser institution than the Catholic Church) that you shouldn't molest children while doing your job, nor allow that to happen. Asking if you would ever be held accountable for doing something so obviously wrong has been a legit question for a helluva long time, given how things are going. But returning to the "obviously wrong" part of it, I have no sympathy for anyone who was just betting on not being held accountable.
                              The armchair saddler
                              Politically Pro-Cat

                              Comment

                              • Original Poster

                                #16
                                Originally posted by mvp View Post

                                Then you should quit the USEF and have a lesson with him.

                                Of course, had it been the case that the justice system were better at prosecuting pedophiles, you'd find someone like Morris charged with a crime. And you know what? It still wouldn't be illegal to have him teach at your place.

                                So which standard did you want to employ such that you can't have anyone tell you not to put money in a child molester's pocket?
                                I don't have a dog in this fight other than saying I object to USEF saying what members can and can't do. As far as medications as Gardenhorse mentioned, they are only illegal if one is showing and using the medications, not what is done in the privacy of your own barn.

                                As I mentioned above I don't know much about GM and if what is reported is true, it is a real shame our justice system didn't do its job long ago. And, yes, had he been charged, found guilty and served his time, he would be allowed to teach I assume. Perhaps our laws need to be revised on the statute of limitations on child abuse!

                                There seems to be much confusion about the role and authority of SS in many instances. Perhaps they should do a better job educating members.

                                Comment


                                • #17
                                  Originally posted by HoolieB View Post
                                  Who is he casting shade upon with the "buy a horse the year before the Olympics" comment? Four Winds Farm acquired Suppenkasper in 2017...do you think that was another jab at Peters?
                                  Maybe not any one person. It’s pretty common to see a lot of horse juggling, a percentage of ownership changing hands right before the deadline, etc. to make sure top riders in many countries have a shot at qualifying.

                                  Honestly, I don’t get all the angst over not training the horse yourself 100%. Nobody is getting to CDI quality Grand Prix and staying there without some serious riding ability and a shed load of hard work and saddle time. If they aren’t interested in training as much as competing, why is that any worse than the people who prefer training to competing? Should they be good horse people and actively take hands on care of their horse and have the in depth knowledge to do so? IMO yes, but that’s not the same as being a good trainer.

                                  Comment


                                  • #18
                                    Originally posted by eggbutt View Post
                                    I know very little about George Morris other than growing up hearing the name from jumper folks and, of course, the SS charges. Was he ever charged with a crime in the courts?

                                    The part of this that concerns me is private citizen Jane Doe who is also a USEF member is not allowed to take a lesson from GM or have him teach a clinic at her facility. I don't like SS, or anyone, telling any of us what we can and can't do that is legal by the law to do.
                                    No crimes - yet. The victims who have publicly come forward so far are past the statute of limitations.

                                    As for not liking the fact you have to follow USEF rules? Members can choose to terminate their membership if taking lessons from a confirmed sexual predator is that important to them. If, on the other hand, they want to remain members of the organization, they have to follow its rules. That’s how it works. If you don’t like USEF telling you what you can and can’t do, then don’t join. Literally every member based organization has rules members are expected to follow. They don’t get to pick and choose which rules they agree with and ignore the rest.

                                    Comment


                                    • #19
                                      Originally posted by eggbutt View Post

                                      I have the same understanding. That's just crazy IMO.
                                      It’s not crazy at all. Minors can’t be ALONE with their trainers in situations like that. Just like girls scout leaders, youth group leaders, teachers on field trips, etc. don’t stay in tents and hotel rooms alone with the kids in their care. There should always be another adult present. It protects the kids from actual abuse. It protects the adults from the appearance of wrongdoing and false allegations of abuse. It’s common sense.

                                      Comment


                                      • #20
                                        Originally posted by BigMama1 View Post

                                        No crimes - yet. The victims who have publicly come forward so far are past the statute of limitations.

                                        As for not liking the fact you have to follow USEF rules? Members can choose to terminate their membership if taking lessons from a confirmed sexual predator is that important to them. If, on the other hand, they want to remain members of the organization, they have to follow its rules. That’s how it works. If you don’t like USEF telling you what you can and can’t do, then don’t join. Literally every member based organization has rules members are expected to follow. They don’t get to pick and choose which rules they agree with and ignore the rest.
                                        Exactly this.

                                        Comment

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