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  • Originally posted by GreenWithEnvy View Post

    And as this thread has mentioned so many times, NO ONE KNOWS THE ACTUAL FACTS on this forum (other than one person). I have no idea what the reason for the shooting was. I know we've been told by one person, but I will wait for collaboration before taking that as actual fact.
    It amazes me how many people are not taking this view. I think I posted on an earlier thread that I got off of jury duty one time when I said that I could not find someone guilty based strictly on the words of another party without any additional evidence.

    Comment


    • Originally posted by GreenWithEnvy View Post

      I AM SAYING PREVIOUS BEHAVIOR CAN BE ENTERED BY EITHER PARTY TO SUBSTANTIATE THEIR CASE TO SHOW MENTAL STATE ON THE DAY OF AUGUST 7 OR EVEN THE WEEK PRECEEDING. FOR EXAMPLE: the previous behavior of an abuser toward his victim showing a pattern of behavior!!!!!!!
      Okay, now I see where the problem lies. You were using the word "similar" in the way that you understand it, which is not the way that it should be used. Thank you for clearing that up for me.

      Comment


      • Originally posted by ynl063w View Post

        Okay, now I see where the problem lies. You were using the word "similar" in the way that you understand it, which is not the way that it should be used. Thank you for clearing that up for me.
        Let me apologize in advance.

        Comment


        • Originally posted by GreenWithEnvy View Post

          I certainly don't have the information to argue one way or another, but I would think (hypothetically speaking) any verified past provocation by either party would be fair to admit in a trial to show state of mind of either or all parties. Similar to abused women who take matters into their own hands and do harm to their abuser and end up being found not guilty. Again, perhaps I've watched too much Law & Order and real crime drama shows for my own good. This situation seems different than wearing provocative clothing, being raped and having John Q public say the woman asked for it because of her attire.
          Well sure that might be relevant, if we were talking about past behaviour involving MB, such as the months or years of torment that abuse victims typically suffer before snapping and defending themselves. And most abuse victims are very much in imminent physical danger, which is why such cases are typically seen as self defence.

          But there is no suggestion MB was in imminent physical danger or was
          being “abused” by LK for any significant length of time. The “bad behaviour” that other posters keep insisting might be a valid part of the defence involve other people, completely unrelated to MB, and mostly seem to revolve around her being a bey-otch or a drama queen. Annoying but hardly the stuff that justifies attempted murder.

          You aren’t allowed to shoot someone because they are mean to you, or because they badmouth you, or make recordings of you, or refuse to leave your property, or file false claims with SS or CPS about you, or are generally a royal pain in the ass. It’s really not that complicated.

          A lot of posters here have actually seemed to suggest that LK caused or at least somehow provoked the shooting when in fact shooting isn’t a reasonable nor predictable outcome of any of her alleged behaviour in most parts of the world.

          Comment


          • Originally posted by AnotherRound View Post
            Quoted (verbatim) in case anyone didn't get the point, which the seem to keep not getting. Golly, what's with these people turning other people's words around!

            Good job, GWE
            Golly, what's with these people turning their own words around when they are called out on the fact that the point they made was totally abhorrent, and instead of just admitting that they didn't think the comparison through completely and yup, it was wrong, they pretend that they said something completely different than what they did say, even though what they did say is quoted for posterity!

            There. Fixed it for you. You're welcome.

            Comment


            • Originally posted by YankeeDuchess View Post





              Ladyj, I love your cool, calm, understated style. I seek to emulate it.
              Seek harder.

              Comment


              • Originally posted by ynl063w View Post

                Portraying MB in your scenario as equivalent to an abused woman who took matters into her own hands would be laughable if it wasn't such a disgusting insult to women who really are physically abused in such a serious way and get no help that their literal last option is to take matters into their own hands.

                A nuisance tenant/boarder is no more responsible for being shot by her landlord/trainer than a provocatively dressed woman who dances closely all night with a man at a club is responsible for being raped at the end of the night by said man.

                I believe she meant similar in that each case could show a pattern of behavior. Not that MB shooting LK is similar to an abuse victim shooting their abuser.

                In LK/MB either side could be shown to have a pattern of behavior. LK has a history of being a bully. She has refused to leave a property before.
                MB (according to LK) also has some sort of record of violence. I believe she mentioned some sort of physical altercation? I don’t have the energy to find the post or look it up.

                Now, neither of those patterns of behavior justifies shooting someone. But either side could be used to persuade a jury to have trouble deciding who is the victim. (Ie-did LK bully MB and he snapped, or MB is a violent person who planned to shoot her then and there)


                ETA: I’m on pain medication so I do apologize if that doesn’t make sense. My brain is fully of clouds.
                Last edited by GiveEmEl; Jan. 2, 2020, 11:00 PM. Reason: Additional info “ETA”

                Comment


                • Originally posted by GiveEmEl View Post

                  I believe she meant similar in that each case could show a pattern of behavior. Not that MB shooting LK is similar to an abuse victim shooting their abuser.

                  In LK/MB either side could be shown to have a pattern of behavior. LK has a history of being a bully. She has refused to leave a property before.
                  MB (according to LK) also has some sort of record of violence. I believe she mentioned some sort of physical altercation? I don’t have the energy to find the post or look it up.

                  Now, neither of those patterns of behavior justifies shooting someone. But either side could be used to persuade a jury to have trouble deciding who is the victim. (Ie-did LK bully MB and he snapped, or MB is a violent person who planned to shoot her then and there)


                  ETA: I’m on pain medication so I do apologize if that doesn’t make sense. My brain is fully of clouds.
                  Definition of similar

                  1: having characteristics in common : strictly comparable
                  2: alike in substance or essentials : CORRESPONDINGno two animal habitats are exactly similar— W. H. Dowdeswell
                  3: not differing in shape but only in size or positionsimilar trianglessimilar polygons


                  She actually typed the words that the MB/LK case is SIMILAR to an abused woman shooting her abuser, and yet here you are saying she didn't mean that. Based on the definition of the word "similar", which I have copied and pasted above, her use of the word "similar" would mean to anyone who understands the meaning of the word "similar" that she thinks there are comparable and corresponding aspects of the subject case with respect to the example case. If she meant that there is no similarity between the MB/LK case and cases involving abused women who take justice into their own hands when it comes to their abusers, she should not have said that the MB/LK case is similar to cases in which abused women take matters into their own hands. It really shouldn't take multiple pages on an internet forum to explain this to even one person, much less more than one, and yet here we are. Incredible.

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by AnotherRound View Post
                    Eh. Here's another postulation. MB goes to LK's place to confront her about the CS visit which has him upset, brings along the gun because there is that dog which bites people, walks up to her, angry, LK grins and reaches behind her to pull out her phone to do her usual patronizing recording of MB angry, MB thinks SHE's pulling a gun, and uses his "first' when of course she wasn't armed. Not like that has never happened before.

                    Or, the dog lunges, he starts to pull his gun on the dog, the dog leaps and pushes him over and the shots go high, into LK, the last one going wild missing the boyfriend because by then the dog has him on the ground. I could believe that more easily than believe that he had planned to murder her. Nobody would plan to murder someone that way, its entirely unblievable, and no, I don't belive that the recordings made over previous weeks were of a murder plot. So that's (one of) my opinion(s).
                    I hope this is joke. Yet, it’s not really a joking a matter. Anyway, this a post I’m definitely quoting again posterity.

                    This is possibly the INSANE theory I have read so far. You must have missed my post about the events of that day. Clearly. But, go with that!
                    ????????????????????

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by GiveEmEl View Post

                      I believe she meant similar in that each case could show a pattern of behavior. Not that MB shooting LK is similar to an abuse victim shooting their abuser.

                      In LK/MB either side could be shown to have a pattern of behavior. LK has a history of being a bully. She has refused to leave a property before.
                      MB (according to LK) also has some sort of record of violence. I believe she mentioned some sort of physical altercation? I don’t have the energy to find the post or look it up.

                      Now, neither of those patterns of behavior justifies shooting someone. But either side could be used to persuade a jury to have trouble deciding who is the victim. (Ie-did LK bully MB and he snapped, or MB is a violent person who planned to shoot her then and there)


                      ETA: I’m on pain medication so I do apologize if that doesn’t make sense. My brain is fully of clouds.
                      What property have I refused to leave, before??? Or.... EVER? You don’t get to perpetuate lies that you’ve made up in your head.
                      ????????????????????

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by AnotherRound View Post
                        Eh. Here's another postulation. MB goes to LK's place to confront her about the CS visit which has him upset, brings along the gun because there is that dog which bites people, walks up to her, angry, LK grins and reaches behind her to pull out her phone to do her usual patronizing recording of MB angry, MB thinks SHE's pulling a gun, and uses his "first' when of course she wasn't armed. Not like that has never happened before.

                        Or, the dog lunges, he starts to pull his gun on the dog, the dog leaps and pushes him over and the shots go high, into LK, the last one going wild missing the boyfriend because by then the dog has him on the ground. I could believe that more easily than believe that he had planned to murder her. Nobody would plan to murder someone that way, its entirely unblievable, and no, I don't belive that the recordings made over previous weeks were of a murder plot. So that's (one of) my opinion(s). [QUOTE]

                        QFP
                        ????????????????????

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by La-LaPopRider View Post

                          What property have I refused to leave, before??? Or.... EVER? You don’t get to perpetuate lies that you’ve made up in your head.
                          I believe you’ve heard of [edit]?
                          You don’t get to deny truths because you don’t like them.
                          Last edited by Moderator 1; Jan. 4, 2020, 01:04 PM.

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by GiveEmEl View Post

                            I believe you’ve heard of [edit]?
                            You don’t get to deny truths because you don’t like them.
                            huh? this is super vague.

                            What specific demonstrable truths are being denied?

                            Last edited by Moderator 1; Jan. 4, 2020, 01:04 PM.
                            Let me apologize in advance.

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by GreenWithEnvy View Post
                              I wonder, based on LK's statements that other charges may be forthcoming if others will be charged with conspiracy based on the "inadmissible" recordings? Unless names are spoken, how does one 100% identify the speakers?
                              Never said they were “inadmissible.” Said I didn’t know. Names are spoken. Clearly. And, to someone else’s position, (forget who posted this) - The recordings only take place over the span of about 4-6 days. Definitely not more. Even 6 days maybe too high an estimate. It is admitted in more than one of them “she’s recording us. She’s recording us, so go out to the dumpster when you want to discuss this. No more discussions of plans in here.”
                              Leaving it all right there. Now that crazy people have joined this thread, throwing around INSANE theories & perpetuating blatant lies, I’m stepping away for the moment. When & IF this thread enters the (at least partial) reality zone again, maybe I’ll be back.
                              ????????????????????

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by ladyj79 View Post

                                huh? this is super vague.

                                What specific demonstrable truths are being denied?

                                She knows exactly what I mean.

                                She was asked to leave [edit]. She refused. It’s a long story.
                                Last edited by Moderator 1; Jan. 4, 2020, 01:03 PM.

                                Comment


                                • 3, 2020, 12:06 AM
                                  Originally posted by GiveEmEl View Post
                                  I believe you’ve heard of [edit]?
                                  You don’t get to deny truths because you don’t like them. [QUOTE]

                                  I have heard of this barn! Been there for 5 years now! One of my horses is currently there. I’m certain when I show the owner this, and tell her exactly who is bringing her barn into this..... she won’t appreciate it. If she wanted me gone- I wouldn’t be there. Those who disrespect the farm are made to leave- there’s no ifs ands or buts about it. She has never been anything but supportive of me & my horses.

                                  So....... what barn was I “kicked out of?” (This should be good, seeing as tho I’ve never boarded anywhere else aside from at a training barn nearby, where my first import was sent for training.) Had he not been injured badly there, causing me to send him to NC State - followed by rehab, he’d still be there. Once he WAS rehabbed, the trainer took him & me to fla to do a one month clinic w MB together. Again, we would’ve left with her at the end, but MB made us an offer we didn’t refuse, to relocate to NJ & have him train this horse (and the 2nd horse I imported while in fla) - full time. Had I opted not to go with MB, I would’ve brought both new horses to the same exact training barn the first import originally began his career, before his injury.
                                  So..... again, which barn was I “kicked out of?” Yeah. If you’re going to lie- bet your rear end I’m gonna call you out & hold you accountable for answering for yourself.
                                  Last edited by Moderator 1; Jan. 4, 2020, 01:03 PM.
                                  ????????????????????

                                  Comment


                                  • Originally posted by GiveEmEl View Post

                                    I believe you’ve heard of [edit]?
                                    You don’t get to deny truths because you don’t like them.
                                    QFP
                                    Last edited by Moderator 1; Jan. 4, 2020, 01:03 PM.
                                    ????????????????????

                                    Comment


                                    • Originally posted by GiveEmEl View Post

                                      She knows exactly what I mean.

                                      She was asked to leave [edit]. She refused. It’s a long story.
                                      did they shoot her?

                                      I mean, she clearly left at some point, right? like is she there now???
                                      Last edited by Moderator 1; Jan. 4, 2020, 01:03 PM.
                                      Let me apologize in advance.

                                      Comment


                                      • Originally posted by La-LaPopRider View Post

                                        Never said they were “inadmissible.” Said I didn’t know. Names are spoken. Clearly. And, to someone else’s position, (forget who posted this) - The recordings only take place over the span of about 4-6 days. Definitely not more. Even 6 days maybe too high an estimate. It is admitted in more than one of them “she’s recording us. She’s recording us, so go out to the dumpster when you want to discuss this. No more discussions of plans in here.”
                                        Leaving it all right there. Now that crazy people have joined this thread, throwing around INSANE theories & perpetuating blatant lies, I’m stepping away for the moment. When & IF this thread enters the (at least partial) reality zone again, maybe I’ll be back.
                                        Originally posted by La-LaPopRider View Post
                                        I have heard of this barn! Been there for 5 years now! One of my horses is currently there. I’m certain when I show the owner this, and tell her exactly who is bringing her barn into this..... she won’t appreciate it. If she wanted me gone- I wouldn’t be there. Those who disrespect the farm are made to leave- there’s no ifs ands or buts about it. She has never been anything but supportive of me & my horses.

                                        So....... what barn was I “kicked out of?” (This should be good, seeing as tho I’ve never boarded anywhere else aside from at a training barn nearby, where my first import was sent for training.) Had he not been injured badly there, causing me to send him to NC State - followed by rehab, he’d still be there. Once he WAS rehabbed, the trainer took him & me to fla to do a one month clinic w MB together. Again, we would’ve left with her at the end, but MB made us an offer we didn’t refuse, to relocate to NJ & have him train this horse (and the 2nd horse I imported while in fla) - full time. Had I opted not to go with MB, I would’ve brought both new horses to the same exact training barn the first import originally began his career, before his injury.
                                        So..... again, which barn was I “kicked out of?” Yeah. If you’re going to lie- bet your rear end I’m gonna call you out & hold you accountable for answering for yourself.
                                        QFP

                                        Comment


                                        • Originally posted by GiveEmEl View Post

                                          I believe she meant similar in that each case could show a pattern of behavior. Not that MB shooting LK is similar to an abuse victim shooting their abuser.

                                          In LK/MB either side could be shown to have a pattern of behavior. LK has a history of being a bully. She has refused to leave a property before.
                                          MB (according to LK) also has some sort of record of violence. I believe she mentioned some sort of physical altercation? I don’t have the energy to find the post or look it up.

                                          Now, neither of those patterns of behavior justifies shooting someone. But either side could be used to persuade a jury to have trouble deciding who is the victim. (Ie-did LK bully MB and he snapped, or MB is a violent person who planned to shoot her then and there)


                                          ETA: I’m on pain medication so I do apologize if that doesn’t make sense. My brain is fully of clouds.
                                          Your brain is full of clouds..... And lies. Don’t use pain medication to pretend you forgot all about what you’ve posted here, later. Seems that’s where you were headed with that “ETA.”
                                          Im showing this to the owners of FR tmrw. You know, when I visit my horse there. I have no doubt, she ll know exactly the “high drama,” barn, (who I refused to board at) is so desperately trying to cause drama for her. It won’t be surprising.... just sad. I hear that barn has now been kicked out of the 4th place they’ve leased. Possibly 5th. It’s hearsay right now. Tomorrow, with one phone call, I will verify this information. Though, I highly doubt I was given false information from people IRL whom I trust- which can easily be verified. Next?



                                          ????????????????????

                                          Comment

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