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It's time for a new location for USDF finals

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  • #81
    Originally posted by AZ TD View Post
    Great SW Equestrian Center near Houston TX: Sitting on 65 acres in the Cinco Ranch area of Katy, TX; the equestrian center offers six barns with 650 permanent stalls and space for an additional 500 temporary stalls, three covered arenas, three covered warm-up/schooling rings, two lunging pads and four outdoor arenas. Three of the four outdoor arenas have world-class ESI and Otto Sport footing.

    Rancho Murietta near Sacramento CA:
    • Five Indoor Arenas
    • Cattle Facilities
    • 10 Outdoor Arenas
    • Two Cutting Arenas
    • 900 Stalls
    • 3000 Bleacher Seats
    • VIP Seating
    The Houston facility is nice, maybe not as fancy as some others. 2 of the indoor arenas can hold 2 rings so there can be 5 indoor rings. The regional champs and show runs 5 rings, I think 4 inside and one outside.

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    • #82
      it comes down to money..........they would have to pay to fly all the USDF people to a new location and house them.....and they would not have the Equitation championship "decoration leftovers" to use......having juniors there will complicate things.......ugh!!!!!

      Comment


      • #83
        Originally posted by MyssMyst View Post

        This is exactly how it works! Last year, I qualified for training and 1st. This year, I qualified at 2nd. I just picked which two levels I wanted to show at nationals. This coming year, my qualifications at 2nd are good. I can choose to go either first or third, and show whichever level I qualify in and feel confident in.
        I think you will find that there would be a lot of (IMO legitimate) pushback against a system that would allow a horse/rider qualified for the third level finals to show in the first level championship class.
        **********
        We move pretty fast for some rabid garden snails.
        -PaulaEdwina

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        • #84
          Originally posted by Lucassb View Post

          I think you will find that there would be a lot of (IMO legitimate) pushback against a system that would allow a horse/rider qualified for the third level finals to show in the first level championship class.
          I actually think this is extremely common, not just in dressage, but at any other show where you have to qualify. Many of the people showing at the BN AECs have been showing at Novice the entire year.
          http://weanieeventer.blogspot.com/

          Comment


          • #85
            "There definitely has been some concerns voiced from the west coast people, but there is enough support and entries from the east coast to drown out the west coast concerns up to this point."

            Yeah, that's fair.

            Comment


            • #86
              Originally posted by Mondo View Post
              "There definitely has been some concerns voiced from the west coast people, but there is enough support and entries from the east coast to drown out the west coast concerns up to this point."

              Yeah, that's fair.
              I think the West Coast should secede from the USDF nation. Let them have the champions of the East Coast and know that they aren't champions of everything. There are worse things than being stuck in, say, SoCal's dressage market.
              The armchair saddler
              Politically Pro-Cat

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              • #87
                Originally posted by mvp View Post

                I think the West Coast should secede from the USDF nation. Let them have the champions of the East Coast and know that they aren't champions of everything. There are worse things than being stuck in, say, SoCal's dressage market.
                I'm in! After all CDS does predate USDF; just sayin'

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                • #88
                  Originally posted by atlatl View Post

                  I'm in! After all CDS does predate USDF; just sayin'
                  And another thing!

                  Why did any West Coaster send their money or their horse to these championships after it became clear that the promised rotation was not going to happen? Just wondering.
                  The armchair saddler
                  Politically Pro-Cat

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                  • #89
                    Originally posted by mvp View Post

                    And another thing!

                    Why did any West Coaster send their money or their horse to these championships after it became clear that the promised rotation was not going to happen? Just wondering.
                    Just speculation on my part, but I'd guess they wanted to go for the title, whether for sales purposes or just to measure/document their achievement. It's not like there was a west coast alternative to go to, right?
                    **********
                    We move pretty fast for some rabid garden snails.
                    -PaulaEdwina

                    Comment


                    • #90
                      Originally posted by mvp View Post

                      I think the West Coast should secede from the USDF nation. Let them have the champions of the East Coast and know that they aren't champions of everything. There are worse things than being stuck in, say, SoCal's dressage market.
                      I think they should too - and potentially discuss joining up with ODS and some of the other Western groups to create a Western States Dressage Federation!

                      Comment


                      • #91
                        Originally posted by Lucassb View Post

                        Just speculation on my part, but I'd guess they wanted to go for the title, whether for sales purposes or just to measure/document their achievement. It's not like there was a west coast alternative to go to, right?
                        Oh, I think one could go to San Diego and have one's ass handed to one if one were seeking adequately-good competition, competition marked by a bruised ego and a depleted wallet. There is some quality to be found there.

                        I'm just surprised that the DQ demographic (of all the showing demographics out there) would stand for this flavor of mistreatment.
                        The armchair saddler
                        Politically Pro-Cat

                        Comment


                        • #92
                          Originally posted by mvp View Post

                          Oh, I think one could go to San Diego and have one's ass handed to one if one were seeking adequately-good competition, competition marked by a bruised ego and a depleted wallet. There is some quality to be found there.

                          I'm just surprised that the DQ demographic (of all the showing demographics out there) would stand for this flavor of mistreatment.
                          LOL, I guess this is very non-PC but I think it's often less about the seeking of good competition and more about the particular ribbon/title in this case.

                          I don't know much (anything) about west coast facilities or culture. But if there is a place out there that can host a finals, then it surprises me as well that there hasn't been a bigger push for it.
                          **********
                          We move pretty fast for some rabid garden snails.
                          -PaulaEdwina

                          Comment


                          • #93
                            Originally posted by Lucassb View Post

                            I don't know much (anything) about west coast facilities or culture. But if there is a place out there that can host a finals, then it surprises me as well that there hasn't been a bigger push for it.
                            IF? Yes, there are facilities out here that can host a finals, and there has been a huge push for several years now, but USDF is stonewalling us.

                            Our most likely candidate is Rancho Murieta Equestrian Center, 5 indoor rings (including one with stadium seating, VIP seating area, overhead viewing office, attached office, etc), permanent stabling (I think they can stable 900 horses, and about half of that is permanent barns), and another 10 outdoor arenas. It hosts CDIs, USDF Regionals, a World Cup jumper qualifier, and a ton of other shows. Footing is easily swapped out for various disciplines.

                            USDF has refused to consider it - they came to CA once, and they chose to look at a site that everyone told them was NOT the right location (Thermal, which has a huge jumper circuit out in the desert). We all felt like it was a brush-off - USDF can say they "went out west to check out the lay of the land" - but they really didn't listen to any of the Region 7 people.

                            There are a few other locations that may, or may not be big enough. Los Angeles Equestrian Center (hosted the LA Olympics) can handle about 350 horses, but only has one indoor arena (several outdoor rings). Del Mar Horse Park can handle about 400 horses, also only one indoor arena, but several outdoor rings. So, depends on how much of a regular show is needed to support the Finals, as to how big a facility they need. Our Annual show/Regional Championship show is regularly over 300 horses, and both MEC and LAEC handle the show just fine.

                            There are several other facilities, but those are the most likely venues.

                            Comment


                            • #94
                              Originally posted by mvp View Post

                              And another thing!

                              Why did any West Coaster send their money or their horse to these championships after it became clear that the promised rotation was not going to happen? Just wondering.
                              One I spoke with, basically asking her the same question you pose, was an amateur of the "lady of leisure" type who wanted the "experience" (that's a real quote) and had the time and money to make an adventure of it. She was gone from home a month; took a week to drive there, spent a week in advance of the show acclimating, spent a week at the show and another week driving back.

                              Another was Lehua Custer, the story of whom is well publicized, rides an awesome horse with an awesome owner of modest means. Someone set up a Go-Fund-Me page that collected enough to fly the team to the show and back. I suspect part of the motivation behind this particular case is that the team was super competitive as in very likely to win; and they did. I think this move was the start of Lehua's rise in visibility and say GOOD FOR HER!!

                              Rumor has it that others with deep pockets are willing to play nice with USDF in hopes that the show will eventually rotate west.

                              Rumor also has it that USDF reps at our regional championships were pressuring the CDS officials to promote the show to the point that during winner photos, riders were point blank asked "next stop the Nationals right?"
                              Last edited by atlatl; Dec. 10, 2019, 02:32 PM.

                              Comment


                              • #95
                                Originally posted by MysticOakRanch View Post

                                ...

                                USDF has refused to consider it - they came to CA once, and they chose to look at a site that everyone told them was NOT the right location (Thermal, which has a huge jumper circuit out in the desert). We all felt like it was a brush-off - USDF can say they "went out west to check out the lay of the land" - but they really didn't listen to any of the Region 7 people.

                                ...
                                In fairness, the footing at Thermal is pretty wonderful. The last time I showed there it poured rain the entire weekend and the footing was great. I think the real problem with Thermal is the lack of infrastructure in the way of hotels and restaurants for a big crowd.

                                Comment


                                • #96
                                  Originally posted by atlatl View Post

                                  In fairness, the footing at Thermal is pretty wonderful. The last time I showed there it poured rain the entire weekend and the footing was great. I think the real problem with Thermal is the lack of infrastructure in the way of hotels and restaurants for a big crowd.
                                  I have found that what a show needs and what locals think it needs are two entirely different things. I've seen people bitterly disappointed that a committee didn't chose their showgrounds when the showgrounds never submitted a bid in the first place. My guess is Thermal was the only facility that submitted a bid (that was in range). You aren't going to fly out and look at locations before you know if they're interested in your business and if you can afford it.
                                  http://weanieeventer.blogspot.com/

                                  Comment


                                  • #97
                                    Kind of off-topic, but I wish the US finals didn't have a citizenship (as opposed to residency) requirement. I can see the policy reasons for it. It just kind of sucks, since it's a different requirement than the regional finals. (Griping as a Canadian living in California).
                                    Mr. Sandman
                                    sand me a man
                                    make him so sandy
                                    the sandiest man

                                    Comment


                                    • #98
                                      Originally posted by MysticOakRanch View Post

                                      Our most likely candidate is Rancho Murieta Equestrian Center, 5 indoor rings (including one with stadium seating, VIP seating area, overhead viewing office, attached office, etc), permanent stabling (I think they can stable 900 horses, and about half of that is permanent barns), and another 10 outdoor arenas. It hosts CDIs, USDF Regionals, a World Cup jumper qualifier, and a ton of other shows. Footing is easily swapped out for various disciplines.

                                      USDF has refused to consider it - they came to CA once, and they chose to look at a site that everyone told them was NOT the right location (Thermal, which has a huge jumper circuit out in the desert). We all felt like it was a brush-off - USDF can say they "went out west to check out the lay of the land" - but they really didn't listen to any of the Region 7 people.

                                      There are a few other locations that may, or may not be big enough. Los Angeles Equestrian Center (hosted the LA Olympics) can handle about 350 horses, but only has one indoor arena (several outdoor rings). Del Mar Horse Park can handle about 400 horses, also only one indoor arena, but several outdoor rings. So, depends on how much of a regular show is needed to support the Finals, as to how big a facility they need. Our Annual show/Regional Championship show is regularly over 300 horses, and both MEC and LAEC handle the show just fine.

                                      There are several other facilities, but those are the most likely venues.
                                      I'm going to bookmark this on both ends with my usual - I DO THINK THIS SHOW SHOULD ROTATE.

                                      Not for nothing but isn't Rancho Murieta basically next door to you? Your local facility is always going to be where you want to go if you think it can manage the show.

                                      They run pretty big shows in SoCal and everyone can't seem to shut up about the great weather, so rain should not be an issue - thus the need for endless covered arenas not being such a thing.

                                      I don't know if anyone posting here knows the answer to this question - but I think I've asked this before - when was the last time any western US facility even bid on this show? It's hard for the USDF to move the show if no one else even shows any interest in running it. Get your show managers to send it bids and demand a reason why it doesn't move as promised if they are not selected.

                                      It's easy to complain on a internet BB about broken promises, it's a lot harder to do the work to get it done.

                                      And as promised - my closing disclaimer - I DO THINK THIS SHOW SHOULD ROTATE.

                                      Comment


                                      • #99
                                        Thinking about large west coast facilities (caveat - I am a HJ exhibitor, for whatever that's worth, or not). And I have not read the entire thread...

                                        A new management group has taken over the Thermal, CA facility and has put a LOT of money into improvements, including footing, bathrooms, stabling, covers for horses and people... No indoor rings though. https://deserthorsepark.com

                                        South Point in Las Vegas. Once in, you never even have to go outside as the hotel, stalls, and competition area is all housed under one roof. Three indoor rings and 1200 stalls. Friends who have gone to the USHJA Finals there have raved about how nice it is. Might have to commit to a multiple-year gig as it's pretty heavily used. https://southpointarena.com/equestrian-center

                                        Galway (Temecula, CA) has no indoor rings and, the last time I was there, in May, still had a hefty population of rocks. Cue large vet bill and end of show season.

                                        Oaks, AKA Blenheim (San Juan Capistrano, CA). Lovely facility. Lots of (canvas and thin wood) stalls. Covered arena for an extra fee. Tends to drain well--not great while it's raining, but OK pretty quickly thereafter.

                                        LAEC (Burbank, CA) - one large covered ring in which you can set up two side-by-side dressage rings. Outdoor areas (stabling, public spaces) can be a slimy mess when it rains.
                                        Last edited by Peggy; Dec. 10, 2019, 10:08 PM. Reason: Typos
                                        The Evil Chem Prof

                                        Comment


                                        • Originally posted by MysticOakRanch View Post

                                          What about all of us in the West (about 40% of the membership is out west!) who have to pay hand-over-foot every year to go to the East Coast for KY Finals? And ride in horrific conditions that neither they nor their horses have ever been exposed to?



                                          But that isn't really true - I know Region 7 has tried several times to get the Finals moved here - we have several locations - Belowthesalt names a few here:



                                          I'd add Del Mar to the mix, although reality is, Rancho Murieta is probably the best bet with 4 covered competition arenas (one stadium type), a covered warm up as well as MANY outdoor rings, permanent stabling and temperate weather. And heated restrooms, a hotel across the street, a conference center on the grounds, it is an amazing facility. I think it was in the 70s the week of Finals at Rancho Murieta... But - USDF has refused to even consider any of those locations, so essentially, no other show is ALLOWED to put in a bid.

                                          I don't think people understand the frustration and anger going on in the West over USDF's total disregard toward a huge part of their membership. It isn't just Finals, it is almost every program they run - and their response over and over and over is "GMOs can run programs too". Well, duh, and we do - but why should we pay the same dues as the East Coast when USDF doesn't serve us equitably? And how can you call a competition a national Finals when almost half your membership can't access the show due to distance, cost, and weather? And how can USDf call this a "central location" - have they ever looked at a map of this country? And WHO wants to go show in sleet and freezing weather? For riders and horses from the West (or Florida), this is inhumane conditions - our horses are not accustomed to it, nor are our riders.

                                          Yes, it is time to rotate, and yes the West was lied to by USDF. There was no intent to ever rotate the Finals. It was just a lie to get support from a large contingency of the membership. And they wonder why membership is falling rapidly?
                                          You are not being ignored. I have been going to the Convention for quite a few years now, and every year there is a discussion about finding a place out west. Various facilities have been visited.
                                          take heart in the fact that the NEW Vice President, Kevin Reinig, is from California and has been involved in the search for a western venue. One of the factors leading me (and other I know) to vote for him was the fact that he IS from the west.

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