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It's time for a new location for USDF finals

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  • #41
    Originally posted by atlatl View Post

    Totally agree that additional population differentiation is needed.

    BTW: in my 3 minute Google search on this topic, I saw that Texas has more horses than any other state, and CA was second.
    And I'm willing to wager that most of TX horses are not dressage horses

    Comment


    • #42
      If you held the qualifications for two years, what would you do about the training level horses that are no longer training level horses in 2 years? Hope they also qualified at 1st, etc?

      Comment


      • #43
        Originally posted by Eventer2483 View Post
        If you held the qualifications for two years, what would you do about the training level horses that are no longer training level horses in 2 years? Hope they also qualified at 1st, etc?
        I think the qualification is good for the current year and the following year, not 2 additional years.

        So you qualify in 2019 for Training but don't go to 2019 finals. You start the regular show season in 2020, maybe still at Training, maybe you also try to qualify for Finals at First, maybe start showing Second.

        You can go to straight to 2020 Finals already qualified for Training (and can therefore skip Regional champs) or maybe you go to Regionals at First and Second and try to qualify for Finals. If you qualify at Second, then you'd have to decide which 2 consecutive levels you want to show at Finals.

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        • #44
          Everyone always wants finals to be held in their state, at their facility.
          http://weanieeventer.blogspot.com/

          Comment


          • #45
            Originally posted by Eventer2483 View Post
            Taking this from a H/J prospective... folks travel all the time to the year-end finals at Capital Challenge, Harrisburg, New York, and the National horse show in KY. People from the west coast travel all the time with limited complaints. Why is dressage land different?
            Those folks who travel all the time to the year-end finals on the east coast are a very small percentage of west coast h/j riders. Investing time and money to show at the east coast indoor circuit isn't a priority for most people, and doesn't make sense for those who can stay close to home instead and compete in nice weather.

            The biggest show in southern California for h/j in November is the year-end championship in Del Mar managed by Lance Bennett. It started many years ago as a two day show for local riders, and has grown to a week long competition with riders from all over California. Parents, owners, riders and trainers, plus the great management, have made it a huge success.

            As for dressage-land, since we show a limited number of tests/classes over the course of the competition, having to haul or fly horses over a long distance to compete just a few times at facility with a reputation for poor weather and stabling is an investment risk many don't want to take on, or have chosen not to do again in the future.

            Comment


            • #46
              Originally posted by Eventer2483 View Post
              Taking this from a H/J prospective... folks travel all the time to the year-end finals at Capital Challenge, Harrisburg, New York, and the National horse show in KY. People from the west coast travel all the time with limited complaints. Why is dressage land different?
              Former long time H/J-er here. The H/J indoor finals are, well... indoors. Even the Harrisburg show now has something like 20 acres under one roof. Capital Challenge does have an outdoor arena but they also have a "spare" covered ring that was added for schooling in 2011? 2012? and that is used for the "outdoor" classes in bad weather. Now, the NHS is at the KHP so would have the same conditions as our Nationals.

              **********
              We move pretty fast for some rabid garden snails.
              -PaulaEdwina

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              • #47
                Originally posted by enjoytheride View Post
                Sometimes you ride in crappy weather. I'm not sure how one crappy weather show has you wanting to pack up and go elsewhere. If it was 60 you wouldn't have started this post.
                You're completely missing the point. It's not about crappy weather, it's about miserable conditions experienced by only SOME of the competitors, thus putting them at a competitive disadvantage.

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                • #48
                  Originally posted by SBrentnall View Post

                  You're completely missing the point. It's not about crappy weather, it's about miserable conditions experienced by only SOME of the competitors, thus putting them at a competitive disadvantage.
                  Isn't that what showing is about though? Sometimes you do dressage in the pouring rain and the rest of your class does it in no rain. I know one facility that has a TRAIN that randomly comes through. How's that for a disadvantage?
                  Last edited by enjoytheride; Dec. 5, 2019, 08:23 PM.
                  http://weanieeventer.blogspot.com/

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                  • #49
                    "Everyone always wants finals to be held in their state, at their facility." Said by someone in Indiana. (A state that borders Kentucky.)

                    Comment


                    • #50
                      From a totally different perspective, I used to compete in performance dog nationals (which were held in the middle of the country). We travelled from the east coast. It was a cool event, with people coming from all corners of the US. It was a great event not only for competing, but also for catching up, seeing potential stud dogs or littermates who were on the other side of the country, etc. In other words, it was a real nationals.

                      Also, as someone who lives south of Kentucky in Tennessee, I can validate that the weather is frequently crappy in KY in November. Lots of big temperature swings and strong thunderstorms, high winds, heavy rains plus ice and snow all within a week. And probably at least one nice day, too.

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                      • #51
                        Originally posted by MysticOakRanch View Post


                        You do realize this is a HUGE state - the entire state is actually not on fire? We don't shut down in the Fall?
                        I do, but do you have a fire location predictor ?
                        ... _. ._ .._. .._

                        Comment


                        • #52
                          Originally posted by Mondo View Post
                          "Everyone always wants finals to be held in their state, at their facility." Said by someone in Indiana. (A state that borders Kentucky.)
                          It's true (and I'll never qualify for USDF nationals since I don't show recognized dressage so my state has nothing to do with my observation) People in California want it in California. People in Florida want it in Florida. Often people don't have any idea what kind of facility is required but they love their local showgrounds. People want perfect weather, every year. They want the entire thing indoors. They want perfect footing, they want permanent matted stalls, they want to be close to all the rings, the barns, the stabling, and their hotels, and they don't want their show bill to reflect those things.

                          Rotating a show has its difficulties, some show grounds will not fill a contract for that.
                          http://weanieeventer.blogspot.com/

                          Comment


                          • #53
                            Originally posted by Equibrit View Post

                            I do, but do you have a fire location predictor ?
                            Kentucky has natural disasters too! And bad weather that can be life threatening. Tornadoes, ice storms, flooding. Can you guarantee none of those will occur? No, you can’t.

                            Comment


                            • #54
                              Originally posted by theresak View Post

                              I think the qualification is good for the current year and the following year, not 2 additional years.

                              So you qualify in 2019 for Training but don't go to 2019 finals. You start the regular show season in 2020, maybe still at Training, maybe you also try to qualify for Finals at First, maybe start showing Second.

                              You can go to straight to 2020 Finals already qualified for Training (and can therefore skip Regional champs) or maybe you go to Regionals at First and Second and try to qualify for Finals. If you qualify at Second, then you'd have to decide which 2 consecutive levels you want to show at Finals.
                              This is exactly how it works! Last year, I qualified for training and 1st. This year, I qualified at 2nd. I just picked which two levels I wanted to show at nationals. This coming year, my qualifications at 2nd are good. I can choose to go either first or third, and show whichever level I qualify in and feel confident in.
                              Proud member of the Snort and Blow Clique

                              Comment


                              • #55
                                Originally posted by Equibrit View Post

                                I do, but do you have a fire location predictor ?
                                No but we do have a lot of concrete surrounding places like Del Mar fairgrounds which is on the coast.

                                Comment


                                • #56
                                  I've lived and shown in 4 different regions, and lived as close as 10min from KHP and as far as my current 2500 miles. I qualified this year, but could not in any way justify trailering my horse for 3 12 hour days (yes, its 36h if driven nonstop) for a single first level test, as much as I *love* Kentucky and KHP and US Finals. Nevermind that travel expenses would be cost prohibitive, it's just not fair for my horse.

                                  The problem the west coast runs into is that if you calculated the population center of the USDF membership, it would probably land somewhere between Kentucky and Kansas City. KHP is actually a pretty darn central place to hold it, being within a very long day, or a very doable 2 day drive (18h) of all of Regions 1, 2, 3, 4, half of 5, 8 and 9 (5.5 regions, yes I know they aren't all equal in membership, it's rough math here)

                                  If you held it in California, it would be within a day's drive of Region 6 and 7, and part of 5 (2.5 regions). You can see how we (west coast) get consistently outvoted. If you held it in Denver in November, there would probably be a blizzard, and it would still be an 18h drive from California.

                                  I'm not sure what the answer is. Given how spaced out the west coast is, I'm not even sure a west coast finals would get very much traction? Perhaps US Finals riders from >1000miles away could be allowed to ride borrowed horses? Sure, we likely wouldn't be as competitive with a brand new partner, but at least we could be there and join the fun (especially the AAs). Or add an IHSA style dressage class for those riders?

                                  But, yes, USDF needs to make sure the west coast feels included. And that we don't just throw our membership $ at programs we can't actually participate in. Maybe a lower regionals qualifying fee for our regions? Or more prize money at our regionals to make it the Big Show for us? I know they already give travel scholarships to those taking the hike to KHP.


                                  Weather wise, does anyone know whether the World Equestrian Center just up the road in SW Ohio meets USDF's finals requirements? It's all indoor and the h/j people seem to be pretty happy showing all winter there.

                                  Comment


                                  • #57
                                    Originally posted by rothmpp View Post
                                    I'm going to wager a guess that OP is from Florida. Though I really don't know OP IRL.

                                    It's the standard complaint that happens after finals each year. The reality of it is that more of us live where it gets that cold than don't in this country. We learn to adjust. If it were to be held in Florida each year, the riders from the north would complain about having to clip for their horses to manage the heat for just one show.
                                    I don't know the OP, but yes, I am from (south) Florida, and yes, I have complained about the weather at Finals here on COTH and to anyone in person who has asked about my experience there.

                                    My horse competed in 85 degree weather at Regionals during his 3:15 pm test, then two weeks later in 32 degree weather at 8:30 am in Kentucky. We live close enough to the ocean that we do not experience crazy temperature swings, and it just never gets below 40. Forget about having to clip a horse for one show, we had to buy $$$$$ gear to try to stay warm outdoors for both my horse, myself, and my daughter who now owns a "Kentucky jacket!"

                                    I am not the only one from Florida who has qualified for Finals through a first place finish, went to Finals, and said, "No way, never again!" The people I know personally who will not return because of the weather have made more gracious public comments about why they aren't going, like the horse is young, it's a big atmosphere, too much travel for the horse, ect.

                                    So my two cents is that the USDF should see that there is this "standard complaint," apparently not just from us wusses from Florida! Finals may not longer exist in the not so distant future if *something* doesn't change. What can be done, I don't know since I am not privileged to know all the logistics required to hold Finals.

                                    I did have a lengthy discussion with a show manager about Finals and she said other areas cannot hold their Regionals earlier, not only due to a short summer show season, but also because there are several long-standing shows too close to the end of season. Show managers own the rights to hold a show "on the third week of October" (for example) and they can't just change the date as they please.

                                    There probably isn't any one location where the weather is likely to be ideal in early November, is located somewhere that enough people can travel to (because, hey, Hawaii is pretty nice in November!), the facilities are adequate to host a large dressage competition, and the venue isn't already booked in perpetuity.

                                    The concept of east coast and west coast championships a week apart with the same judges seems worthwhile to investigate. If the classes were placed like regular championship classes so the riders can experience a victory lap and their horse wear a sash, it would still be fun. The maybe have a national champion, reserve champion, and do like the breed shows and have the next 8 horses get National Top Ten which would feel different than the placing at the actual show, and still feel like an honor.

                                    Also, I don't know any specifics, but the new facility in Ocala is gigantic, will have lots of indoor riding, and possibly won't be booked already for November? It is a very long haul for most of the east coast, but it sounds like it will be set up for riding to continue on regardless of the weather. It's too bad something like this doesn't exist in a more central/northern location, with one facility on each side of the Rockies!

                                    Comment


                                    • #58
                                      There must be any number of sites throughout the US, similar to this one; https://www.stormontvaileventscenter...stock-facility
                                      ... _. ._ .._. .._

                                      Comment


                                      • #59
                                        Originally posted by Equibrit View Post
                                        There must be any number of sites throughout the US, similar to this one; https://www.stormontvaileventscenter...stock-facility
                                        There are, but that facility is nowhere near large enough. (Not the only issue, but a major challenge, obviously.) Compare to the KY Horse Park: https://kyhorsepark.com/media/1671/m...how_labled.pdf
                                        **********
                                        We move pretty fast for some rabid garden snails.
                                        -PaulaEdwina

                                        Comment


                                        • #60
                                          Originally posted by Applecore View Post


                                          Weather wise, does anyone know whether the World Equestrian Center just up the road in SW Ohio meets USDF's finals requirements? It's all indoor and the h/j people seem to be pretty happy showing all winter there.
                                          The weather in SW Ohio is a lot like Lexington except that it's usually a little colder.

                                          WEC Ohio has 600 permanent stalls. The stalls attached to the main complex are heated. It has a huge new indoor, and though it does not have as not much seating as the Alltech, it certainly could accommodate the number of spectators I've observed on Saturday night at KHP. There are three other indoor rings, one smallish but they have squeezed a dressage court in there. One indoor is what I would call regular show ring size and the third is absolutely enormous and would easily hold two dressage courts. Several outdoor rings as well. Cabins on premises and really nice manufactured homes across the street for exhibitors. The stalls are matted. It is a really nice place to show, probably the nicest place I've shown in the last 2 years. It is even better than KHP in some ways although it certainly doesn't have the ambiance of KHP. Wilmington is not exactly a hoppin' spot but there are hotels and restaurants within a reasonable distance.

                                          All that being said, it is no more central to the west coast than Lexington. And if the show got much bigger, they would have to have temporary stalls I would think.

                                          It sure would be nice for someone from USDF to chime in and add to the discussion.

                                          Comment

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