Sport Horse Spotlight

0201171029b-1

Real Estate Spotlight

THC_1

Sale Spotlight

COTH_without Subscribe
  • Welcome to the Chronicle Forums.
    Please complete your profile. The forums and the rest of www.chronofhorse.com has single sign-in, so your log in information for one will automatically work for the other. Disclaimer: The opinions expressed here are the views of the individual and do not necessarily reflect the views and opinions of The Chronicle of the Horse.

Announcement

Collapse

Forum rules and no-advertising policy

As a participant on this forum, it is your responsibility to know and follow our rules. Please read this message in its entirety.

Board Rules

1. You�re responsible for what you say.
As outlined in Section 230 of the Communications Decency Act, The Chronicle of the Horse and its affiliates, as well Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd., the developers of vBulletin, are not legally responsible for statements made in the Forums.

This is a public forum viewed by a wide spectrum of people, so please be mindful of what you say and who might be reading it�details of personal disputes may be better handled privately. While posters are legally responsible for their statements, the moderators may in their discretion remove or edit posts, though are not legally obligated to do so, regardless of content.

Users have the ability to modify or delete their own messages after posting. Moderators generally will not delete posts, threads or accounts unless they have been alerted and have determined that a post, thread or user has violated the Forums� policies. Moderators do not regularly independently monitor the Forums for such violations.

Profanity, outright vulgarity, blatant personal insults or otherwise inappropriate statements will not be tolerated and will be dealt with at the discretion of the moderators.

Users may provide their positive or negative experiences with or opinions of companies, products, individuals, etc.; however, accounts involving allegations of criminal behavior against named individuals or companies MUST be first-hand accounts and may NOT be made anonymously.

If a situation has been reported upon by a reputable news source or addressed by law enforcement or the legal system it is open for discussion, but if an individual wants to make their own claims of criminal behavior against a named party in the course of that discussion, they too must identify themselves by first and last name and the account must be first-person.

Criminal allegations that do not satisfy these requirements, when brought to our attention, may be removed pending satisfaction of these criteria, and we reserve the right to err on the side of caution when making these determinations.

Credible threats of suicide will be reported to the police along with identifying user information at our disposal, in addition to referring the user to suicide helpline resources such as 1-800-SUICIDE or 1-800-273-TALK.

2. Conversations in horse-related forums should be horse-related.
The forums are a wonderful source of information and support for members of the horse community. While it�s understandably tempting to share information or search for input on other topics upon which members might have a similar level of knowledge, members must maintain the focus on horses.

3. Keep conversations productive, on topic and civil.
Discussion and disagreement are inevitable and encouraged; personal insults, diatribes and sniping comments are unproductive and unacceptable. Whether a subject is light-hearted or serious, keep posts focused on the current topic and of general interest to other participants of that thread. Utilize the private message feature or personal email where appropriate to address side topics or personal issues not related to the topic at large.

4. No advertising in the discussion forums.
Posts in the discussion forums directly or indirectly advertising horses, jobs, items or services for sale or wanted will be removed at the discretion of the moderators. Use of the private messaging feature or email addresses obtained through users� profiles for unsolicited advertising is not permitted.

Company representatives may participate in discussions and answer questions about their products or services, or suggest their products on recent threads if they fulfill the criteria of a query. False "testimonials" provided by company affiliates posing as general consumers are not appropriate, and self-promotion of sales, ad campaigns, etc. through the discussion forums is not allowed.

Paid advertising is available on our classifieds site and through the purchase of banner ads. The tightly monitored Giveaways forum permits free listings of genuinely free horses and items available or wanted (on a limited basis). Items offered for trade are not allowed.

Advertising Policy Specifics
When in doubt of whether something you want to post constitutes advertising, please contact a moderator privately in advance for further clarification. Refer to the following points for general guidelines:

Horses � Only general discussion about the buying, leasing, selling and pricing of horses is permitted. If the post contains, or links to, the type of specific information typically found in a sales or wanted ad, and it�s related to a horse for sale, regardless of who�s selling it, it doesn�t belong in the discussion forums.

Stallions � Board members may ask for suggestions on breeding stallion recommendations. Stallion owners may reply to such queries by suggesting their own stallions, only if their horse fits the specific criteria of the original poster. Excessive promotion of a stallion by its owner or related parties is not permitted and will be addressed at the discretion of the moderators.

Services � Members may use the forums to ask for general recommendations of trainers, barns, shippers, farriers, etc., and other members may answer those requests by suggesting themselves or their company, if their services fulfill the specific criteria of the original post. Members may not solicit other members for business if it is not in response to a direct, genuine query.

Products � While members may ask for general opinions and suggestions on equipment, trailers, trucks, etc., they may not list the specific attributes for which they are in the market, as such posts serve as wanted ads.

Event Announcements � Members may post one notification of an upcoming event that may be of interest to fellow members, if the original poster does not benefit financially from the event. Such threads may not be �bumped� excessively. Premium members may post their own notices in the Event Announcements forum.

Charities/Rescues � Announcements for charitable or fundraising events can only be made for 501(c)(3) tax-exempt organizations. Special exceptions may be made, at the moderators� discretion and direction, for board-related events or fundraising activities in extraordinary circumstances.

Occasional posts regarding horses available for adoption through IRS-registered horse rescue or placement programs are permitted in the appropriate forums, but these threads may be limited at the discretion of the moderators. Individuals may not advertise or make announcements for horses in need of rescue, placement or adoption unless the horse is available through a recognized rescue or placement agency or government-run entity or the thread fits the criteria for and is located in the Giveaways forum.

5. Do not post copyrighted photographs unless you have purchased that photo and have permission to do so.

6. Respect other members.
As members are often passionate about their beliefs and intentions can easily be misinterpreted in this type of environment, try to explore or resolve the inevitable disagreements that arise in the course of threads calmly and rationally.

If you see a post that you feel violates the rules of the board, please click the �alert� button (exclamation point inside of a triangle) in the bottom left corner of the post, which will alert ONLY the moderators to the post in question. They will then take whatever action, or no action, as deemed appropriate for the situation at their discretion. Do not air grievances regarding other posters or the moderators in the discussion forums.

Please be advised that adding another user to your �Ignore� list via your User Control Panel can be a useful tactic, which blocks posts and private messages by members whose commentary you�d rather avoid reading.

7. We have the right to reproduce statements made in the forums.
The Chronicle of the Horse may copy, quote, link to or otherwise reproduce posts, or portions of posts, in print or online for advertising or editorial purposes, if attributed to their original authors, and by posting in this forum, you hereby grant to The Chronicle of the Horse a perpetual, non-exclusive license under copyright and other rights, to do so.

8. We reserve the right to enforce and amend the rules.
The moderators may delete, edit, move or close any post or thread at any time, or refrain from doing any of the foregoing, in their discretion, and may suspend or revoke a user�s membership privileges at any time to maintain adherence to the rules and the general spirit of the forum. These rules may be amended at any time to address the current needs of the board.

Please see our full Terms of Service and Privacy Policy for more information.

Thanks for being a part of the COTH forums!

(Revised 5/9/18)
See more
See less

Horse that periodically bolts

Collapse
X
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Horse that periodically bolts

    I'm getting to my wit's end with my horse and am hoping someone out there has some ideas. I've had him for 2 years. He was initially trained as a combined driving horse, then sold as a 6 yr old. At the time he had 3 months training under saddle. I bought him as a dressage prospect because he has nice gaits and was also described as being "safe" on roads, in fields, etc. Turns out he is anything but safe. He had no idea how to lunge when I got him, and I spent 4 months with him bolting and bucking when lunging was attempted. Riding him was out of the question. He could barely be walked from one barn to the other barn without becoming hysterical. Absolutely no way would you put this horse on a road or in a field and expect him to work! So, eventually he was sent to a trainer where he became somewhat manageable but still had many unpredictable moments. Fast forward to now...he is now on his 3rd trainer. Both previous trainers had enough success with him to get him rideable for them, but he still had times when he would just bolt out of the blue. I have been able to ride him at walk and trot and very occasionally canter, but frankly I am afraid to canter him due to his periodic bolting. Even when he is not bolting, he canters very fast and really has no adjustability in canter. Attempting to slow him down will cause him to break gait. Over the summer, I thought I was seeing quite a bit of improvement... I was just beginning to get a little confidence about cantering him. His trot became very nice, and bolting seemed to be a thing of the past. Until we hit cool, windy weather. All of a sudden, one day his trainer was riding...he seemed to be going fine and all of a sudden he bolted and ran twice around the arena before she could stop him. He was COMPLETELY out of control. She does not know what set him off. Since she was pregnant, we decided it would be best for someone else to work with him. Now I have another trainer who is doing very well with him, but still needs to lunge him quite a bit before getting on to be sure he will behave under saddle. He has been going well for this trainer and for me over the past month, until yesterday, I went out to lunge him, and BOOM, out of the blue he starts uncontrollably bolting and doing airs above the ground. I thoroughly checked equipment, nothing was out of place. I ended up lunging for 45 minutes...he settled down in the last 5 minutes and we quit. Now I am thoroughly backed off of the idea of riding this horse at the canter! Over the past 2 years he has been thoroughly vetted by 4 vets, 2 chiropractors. He has been scoped for ulcers--nothing. He has been tested for EPM and PSSM, both tests were equivocal. EPM mildly positive, same for PSSM. I did put him on PSSM diet a month ago. Saddle fits well. In between these bouts of bolting and bad behavior, he is lovely, other than too fast in canter. I sometimes think I should sell him because he is not working out for me, but I don't know if I could ethically sell a horse that does this out of the blue. Of course, if i sell, I would reveal. Can anyone think of anything I am missing? I also hate the idea that he needs to be lunged (sometimes quite long) before he can be safely ridden. I am afraid his joints will break down. I simply don't know where to go with this. I am experienced...been riding 50 years...never ran into a horse like this. Sorry so long....

  • #2
    How do you keep this horse? What do you feed? Has your horse enough pasture time with the ability to run? For some horses even this is not enough and they need to run free in an arena or do some free jumping.
    There is a capable trainer out there for every horse - sometimes not easy to find. Also for horses with 'special needs' it sometimes makes sense to look into other disciplines. A former carriage horse may also be familiar with long lining/double lunging.

    Maybe the horse just wants to be a driving horse again?

    Edit: I mixed up bolting and bucking!
    Last edited by Salo; Oct. 27, 2019, 04:37 PM.

    Comment


    • #3
      Personally I would find a good trainer who will also sell the horse for me. At this point it seems unlikely that he will ever be what you want and need. A Pro or accomplished Junior may not be phased by his occasional bolt if he has talent for their discipline. You deserve a horse you can enjoy.

      Comment


      • #4
        I wish I were closer to you. (I'm in Aiken, SC). My current mare went through a bolting period and I fixed it. There are questions I'd ask and things I'd do to try and fix it, but all that would take longer to explain than it's worth. It sounds like you and your pros are enough "out of cards" that you should think about selling him. If he scares you so that you'll never quite trust him, don't put in any more money. If you don't want to learn to fix this vice, don't keep going.

        But I do think that the bolting and fast canter says he's overwhelmed and physically weak. To me, lunging to get him tired is digging a hole for yourself. He is getting tired without either getting stronger in his body so that he can hold himself in that slower, more civilized canter, or tired but not more educated.

        MO, this kind of horse needs two things. 1. To learn to have confidence in his rider (and perhaps a work ethic if, it turns out, he's bolting because he thinks you all have asked too much of him). Often, they bolt because they are overwhelmed and can't think of what else to do to "make it stop." 2. He needs to learn that bolting does not actually solve his problem such that he chooses to get his head back in the game and tries his best to please you. That last part is about his accepting training. He might not have learned that yet.

        Either this horse is very, very fit or you need some more tools in your training box because it should not take 45 minutes to "make a point" to a horse about what would earn him a rest. They are not smart enough to stay in that single conversation for 45 minutes.
        The armchair saddler
        Politically Pro-Cat

        Comment


        • #5
          (..)EPM mildly positive, same for PSSM. I did put him on PSSM diet a month ago.
          Was your horse treated for EPM?

          PSSM diets are not all created equal - Don’t forget to cut sugar everywhere : carrots, cookies, apples, this time of the year grass - or even grass in general.

          Straight B1 powder supplement (or other calming supplements) could be useful.

          Was your horses teeth thoroughly checked?
          My mare had to have her teeth done 2-3 times a year for a few years before her teeth settled correctly and once a year was only warranted.
          She was a great bolter and bronc!
          [Has PSSM, tooth problems and ulcer prone. Oh the joy! - So my advice only come from my experience]

          I believe your horse might have something pain related that only sparks sporadically.
          Horse don’t just bolt for no reason.
          ~ Enjoying some guac and boxed wine at the Blue Saddle inn. ~

          Originally posted by LauraKY
          I'm sorry, but this has "eau de hoarder" smell all over it.
          HORSING mobile training app

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by alibi_18 View Post



            I believe your horse might have something pain related that only sparks sporadically.
            Horse don’t just bolt for no reason.
            I'd mostly agree, but I did have one that had been started badly and never really mentally recovered. There was no pain issue, but his go-to response if he thought he was going to be disciplined was to bolt. There was no physical pain that we were ever able to find.

            OP - I'm assuming that with all the vet work you had done that he was checked for kissing spine? Also did they fully examine and x ray his neck? I've seen some dressage horses get very angry and sometimes violent if they have arthritic necks. I think it is a under-diagnosed issue in dressage horses, especially if you try to ride the ones that suffer from it in frame or lunge in side reins.

            So long as you have fully examined every possible physical issue and there is nothing, plus whoever you have sell the horse fully discloses the issues, I would lean towards selling/retiring. I got badly hurt on the first horse I mentioned, and it destroyed my confidence for many years.

            Comment

            • Original Poster

              #7
              Thanks for the ideas and thoughts. I do think it is time to consider selling. It is a very hard decision due to the many very good rides I have had on him. But he is just not consistent or predictable. Today he was completely explosive for the farrier and purposely kicked him twice. Got him pretty good, so now farrier will only do him under sedation. He has NEVER behaved this way about his feet. He usually goes half to sleep for shoeing. I was flabbergasted. I do think looking into neck issues is a good idea. I have not done that. He has never been the least bit touchy about his back, so I'd be surprised if the problem is kissing spines, but you never know. I have not treated for EPM as the vet thought it unlikely that that is really the problem. I have eliminated as much sugar from his diet as I can, as well as adding oil. He is turned out at least 12 hrs a day with other horses and plays quite a bit with another gelding. Sometimes he is out 24 hrs during nice weather. He is quite fit so he can go for quite awhile when he gets ramped up.

              Comment


              • #8
                I don't think you are missing anything. I think you should consider either euthanasia or personally retire to a pasture situation. True bolting is an incredibly difficult problem to fix. It's a short circuit to a horse's "flight" mechanism. Rushing, and fast cantering, or short bursts forward after which the horse can be managed are different problems, but what I'm reading in the post is that after several years of training with multiple competent trainers, the horse still, for no identifiable reason has episodes where he is totally-out-of-control bolting.

                You cannot ethically resell this horse, even with disclosure. This is just my opinion. As much as I care about horses, I think it is very predictable that this horse is eventually going to really hurt someone. You are lucky that as of this point no one (that you know of) has yet been seriously injured. Some people might say, "sell/give him to a pro who can handle him." But pros are people also, they have families and people who depend on them and care about them the same as you do. And, a pro is unlikely to be a forever home.

                Full disclosure might legally cover you, but ethically I think it is clearly wrong to sell a dangerous horse. No one wants to be the one to "give up hope," so these dangerous horses often end up getting passed around with a trail of injured people behind them. Just because you sell with disclosure doesn't mean that is going to happen on every future transaction.

                For the sake of the horse, resale is also an issue. A problem horse such as a bolter is unlikely to find a fairytale ending. A much more likely scenario is that the horse will change hands again and eventually end up neglected or at auction.

                Comment


                • #9
                  To me, how dangerous a "bolter" is depends greatly upon how they bolt. If the horse is blind panic, run over stuff running, then I consider it highly dangerous. However, if the horse is more of a runaway and "I'll stop when I decide to" who maintains a sense of self-preservation, I think there is hope.

                  When I was a kid I had a horse the was a bit of a runaway. Periodically he would take off and all I could do is steer a bit until he decided to stop or I managed to get him into a confined area. (Didnt have the skills back then to do more!) But he didnt run blind and I felt fairly safe. I did eventually learn to forestall most and somewhat control the other bolts.

                  OTOH, I did know a horse who would run blindly. Seemed more hot than fearful and I saw him run into a stone wall with his cowboyish owner. Both survived with cuts and bruises.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Can you speak to his past as a driving horse? do you know if he bolted then? It might be that he needs to go back to that discipline although I wonder why he would be sold to a different discipline at 6 if he were doing really well.

                    I think if you are completely honest about his past, selling or giving away is an option, and I agree that 24/7 turnout might make a difference.

                    One thing that was recommended to me years ago -- try a course of robaxin and banamine, and see if his behavior changes significantly. If it improves, that may indicate a pain issue.

                    So sorry this happened to you, but I think you have done well by this horse and he needs a new situation with an experience trainer/rider who knows the history.
                    Absurdly improbable things are quite as liable to happen in real life as in weak literature. -- Ada Leverson

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Is your horse insured? I’m surprised none of your vets have asked for a bone scan at this point.

                      I personally do not think any horse acts out like you describe without underlying pain. Some horses when they don’t understand something yes, but it sounds like this horse has been in enough work with enough trainers that he probably understands his job.

                      For sure check the neck but I would be super interested in back and SI as well. Sometimes xrays can’t get a good enough view for kissing spine and or see arthritis that is closer to the spinal cord.

                      If you opt for a bone scan you will see where he lights up and have places to look. Once you know where his pain is coming from you can treat and you may get your horse back. Best of luck.
                      http://www.windsweptfarmllc.com

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Bolts and kicks the farrier? Sorry, I'd have him euthanized before someone gets badly hurt.

                        He probably is in pain somewhere, but there's only so much you can do before you have to call it quits.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          I would say retire. It is not worth the money or your life.

                          Find a horse that you can canter on safely now. Not one in the future.
                          It is better to ride 5 minutes a day than it is to ride 35 minutes on a Sunday.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            My guy sounds similar. He had training issues early on (rescue), improved, and then random bouts of issues. I bought him in CA, then moved to Ohio. I had occasional issues in CA, but I think it was green/new stuff. He never got girthy there, but definitely spooky at times, other times sluggish. But in Ohio, got a weird cold (virus) one year, girthy acting other years, abscesses, had a weird inflammatory response to a bug bite on his sheath, etc. I noticed a correlation to autumn. Wondered if it related to going from grass to hay (hay year round in CA). I normally treated as ulcers and he’d improve. But now I think it was a flare, and not ulcers.

                            Finally got hyperesthetic, trying to bite when touched. Bloodwork showed acute Lyme and low vitamin E. I did antibiotics; no more Lyme in tests. Vitamin E up with liquid, too. I did Chinese medicine, chiro, laser, massage, various supplements... I wouldn’t ride if he acted girthy tacking up. Then one day, he seemed fine. I thought we’d gotten it, and was riding along in our return to fitness journey. Out of the blue, huge bolt, then 90 degree turn toward the barn. He was really round after his year+ off work, and the saddle slipped. I came off against a wall, taking the full force of landing on my knee, as I instinctively tried to roll. Hip subluxation was the worst fall I’ve ever had, and I still have lingering issues almost 2 years later. Since he seemed fine, I retired him. Not safe to ride at that point, and since I know it’s pain related, not fair to him, either.

                            I’m convinced my guy has some weird autoimmune disease. Those are challenging to treat in humans, who are often plagued by flares of pain/problems. My guy is retired, and gets vitamin E and a senior joint supplement. If he gets worse, or becomes dangerous, he’ll be humanely euthanized. He’s 18 now, and an easy keeper and gets along with my other horses. He’s a sweet boy. Not safe to sell, and a good companion horse unless/until he’s suffering or scary.

                            Good luck making the right choice

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by horsephotolady View Post
                              Thanks for the ideas and thoughts. I do think it is time to consider selling. It is a very hard decision due to the many very good rides I have had on him. But he is just not consistent or predictable.
                              Considering the fact that even a trainer had to go through 2 laps of frantic canter - won't ride it anymore and you had to find another one... How realistic is it to consider selling?

                              There might be some very good rides, but this horse is impredictable and, dangerous.

                              Today he was completely explosive for the farrier and purposely kicked him twice. Got him pretty good, so now farrier will only do him under sedation. He has NEVER behaved this way about his feet. He usually goes half to sleep for shoeing. I was flabbergasted.
                              The situation might be aggravating. Sudden change in behavior is never good.

                              There goes your selling idea too, who will want this horse?

                              he can go for quite awhile when he gets ramped up.
                              This, to me, is not normal either. Horses don't just run endlessly in their pasture for no reason.
                              I also would never let a horse get "ramped up" for any lenght of time.
                              This demonstrate an excessive level of anxiety and stress, maybe, again, related to pain.

                              Your horse is not doing well at all.
                              It's time for a chat with your vet.
                              ~ Enjoying some guac and boxed wine at the Blue Saddle inn. ~

                              Originally posted by LauraKY
                              I'm sorry, but this has "eau de hoarder" smell all over it.
                              HORSING mobile training app

                              Comment


                              • #16
                                I’ve posted before about a horse I had who did this. He was a lovely, black Quarter Horse who would bolt randomly as you describe It got bad enough that I had the vet out and we determined that he had some kind of neurological issue which caused him to mentally shut down and bolt. I elected to have him euthanized to avoid any future injury to him or any human. Necropsy showed vertebral malformation causing his spinal cord to get pinched which caused him to bolt in a panic. It was sad to euthanize such a young, good tempered horse, but I didn’t feel he was safe for anyone who had to handle him let alone ride him.
                                Good luck.

                                Comment


                                • #17
                                  I'm sorry you're dealing with this, and I'm sorry you didn't go back to the seller for giving you a totally false sales spiel on the horse. How anyone could do that, knowing you could get seriously hurt is beyond me!! Makes me so angry that there are people who would do this without caring at all what happens to the horse or the buyer. But now that two years and a lot of money have gone by, there's nothing you can do about that. I say retire the horse (whether to a field or "permanently." Sounds cruel, but how happy can this horse be and how much more money can you put into it?) Life is WAY too short not to enjoy riding and risk injury, and there are truly so many wonderful horses out there who would be a joy to own. Cut your losses and move on.
                                  "Dreams are the touchstone of our characters." Henry David Thoreau
                                  Touchstone Farm
                                  www.bytouchstonefarm.com

                                  Comment


                                  • #18
                                    It’s perfectly okay to sell him with a comprehensive disclosure. I had one like this - didn’t bolt - but DID rear. Not with me and never got anyone off but did it with a trainer or two and it was random. Everything checked out. I stuck with it for a few years, rarely riding myself. And he did get (somewhat) better. But I never felt safe on him, so I sold him at a considerable loss and now he’s happy jumping with a junior. It was hard - I liked him a lot and spent a ton but at the end of the day, I needed a horse I was happy and comfortable riding daily without having to pay a trainer. I did find one (he’s the best!) but I had to let go of the other one for that happen.

                                    I am so sorry you’re going through this. It’s very, very hard.

                                    It’s okay to let go.

                                    Comment

                                    • Original Poster

                                      #19
                                      Originally posted by MsM View Post
                                      To me, how dangerous a "bolter" is depends greatly upon how they bolt. If the horse is blind panic, run over stuff running, then I consider it highly dangerous. However, if the horse is more of a runaway and "I'll stop when I decide to" who maintains a sense of self-preservation, I think there is hope.

                                      When I was a kid I had a horse the was a bit of a runaway. Periodically he would take off and all I could do is steer a bit until he decided to stop or I managed to get him into a confined area. (Didnt have the skills back then to do more!) But he didnt run blind and I felt fairly safe. I did eventually learn to forestall most and somewhat control the other bolts.

                                      OTOH, I did know a horse who would run blindly. Seemed more hot than fearful and I saw him run into a stone wall with his cowboyish owner. Both survived with cuts and bruises.
                                      Well...he has never attempted to go through, over or into a fence, so in that sense there is some self preservation, however he has leaped and run through cavaletti. So, not sure if he is a completely blind runaway, but certainly won't hesitate to run through obstacles that look "run throughable"!

                                      Comment


                                      • #20
                                        alibi_18 I agree with you completely that selling is not realistic in this scenario. OP, if your trainers have struggled to ride this horse, how would you even handle sales appointments? There would be huge liability to allow shoppers to come try this horse. Certainly no reputable trainer would agree to be involved representing a horse that is known to bolt (never mind kicking people). Honestly, they probably wouldn't even want you showing it to people at their farm.

                                        Comment

                                        Working...
                                        X