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PSA - SH Productions Clinics (Laura Graves) Cancelled

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  • #21
    I agree that frequency is an issue - at least in my area (Toronto region). When they did the first Ingrid Klimke clinic I believe it was bleacher seating only and no VIP. Charlotte was the first at the venue with the VIP experience and the incremental cost for better seating and food, plus the novelty of seeing someone like Charlotte here made it a justifiable splurge for many people. And then the next year Carl Hester. Harder to justify, because we had all spent a fortune the previous year to see Charlotte, but it’s CARL, and how often do you get the chance?

    Fast forward to the next year and Charlotte came back again. Same format, several of the same riders. Ticket sales still strong enough, but not the frenzied sales of the first time. So now with Ingrid back again I think the community is suffering from a bit of clinic fatigue.

    The Robert Dover symposium is a different kettle of fish as its being hosted by the national federation, funded by the $10 levy they collect from each of us each time we enter a rated show. And I’m very much looking forward to it!

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    • #22
      Originally posted by the sandiest shoes View Post
      LOL I was by a show secretary for a show last year that I would be able to cancel with a refund (I contacted them to scratch for a sudden horse illness). Then they cashed my check (> $800) anyway. I asked about it, forwarding the email where they said I wouldn't be charged. I was told they had to cash my check for non-reimbursable administrative fees and they would issue a refund check for the difference.

      That was in April. I've followed up by email and phone repeatedly since (including the number Scott posted above). So many unanswered emails to Scott. Whatever, I gave up - I understand how difficult this all is, but geez. Even if they just told me straight up "no refunds, not even for shavings you won't use, sorry" I would have respected it a lot more than "yes, we'll refund you" and then utter and complete ghosting. Big shrugs from me.
      I'm sorry to hear you're having to tolerate the silent treatment. There is no excuse for not responding to you in some way.

      A tale of caution: I had a similar situation with Cornerstone Dressage show management many years ago.
      I had entered the show and paid all fees. Before the closing date, my horse became lame, and we notified show management and provided a vet's note. We followed all instructions as written in the prize list. I was due a refund of my fees and waited for the check. But no money ever came. I learned after the show that show management chose instead to use my refund to pay off a balance due owed by my trainer for his, and other clients' horses.



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      • #23
        It's also true that sometimes the ultimate value of a clinic to the auditors depends on who ends up riding in it.

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        • #24
          Originally posted by the sandiest shoes View Post

          It was just on the cusp of closing date - I'd argue that the verbal and then written agreement provided by the show secretary was a clarification on the prize list policy that then superseded such information. I mean, if they wanted to take that position, they should have said so. They never did - they said the opposite and then just stopped answering.
          I guess I am a binary thinker, either you scratched before the closing date or not. I would think the prize list was more of a binding contract with the show organizer than a show secretary employee of the organizer. Just my viewpoint, if one takes it to small claims court, have no idea how it would be decided and don't know thise costs,

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          • #25
            Originally posted by Mardi View Post

            Many would prefer to have access to the best TEACHERS.


            True, but many fail to make that distinction.

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            • #26
              I am surprised that someone who is living "paycheck to paycheck" would undertake this sort of business.

              It seems a bit like being a concert promoter. There are too many variables and you are gambling with other people's money. If you don't have the capital to pay the bills or refund money that is owed when the event is cancelled due to illness, or weather, or...or... this is not the business model in which you should be involved.

              Your hopes and dreams and -crying-in-the-car-regret mean squat to the people whose money you are gambling with. They work hard for their money as well.
              Last edited by skydy; Sep. 10, 2019, 01:11 AM. Reason: To Add

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              • #27
                I have been to a couple of the West Coast clinics that Mr. Hayes has organized. I'd estimate that the first was about three years ago, when he was new in the event-planning biz. Mr. Hayes has always struck me as being young. This bit of writing does not show a whole lot of growth. I'm always surprised by the confessional- and "here is how bad I feel" strategy when used by adults in business. Bit of mea culpa-style "taking ownership" is a good place to start. But after that, I think the focus needs to be on what will be done to make things right... not on how they feel and the obstacles to the business and certainly not "I'm telling you all this in order to get out in front of rumors."
                The armchair saddler
                Politically Pro-Cat

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                • #28
                  I attended ONE of the SH events (In So-Cal), and it was pretty poorly organized. I organized a group of friends and we all splurged and bought a VIP table - so it was a pricey event. SH and his crew had not tested the sound system and as a result, we heard NOTHING the entire first day. I searched him down at lunch and told him we could hear nothing, and he really made it clear he didn't care. But there were enough complaints from our side of the tables that they attempted to fix it on day 2 - and DID fix it for a few hours, which resulted in other (more important) tables unable to hear, so they switched it back - so we got a half day of hearing Carl Hester in a 2 day Symposium. For which we had paid for a VIP table - a lot of money for my group of friends!

                  I had other issues with SH and this symposium, and am one of the people that will never attend another SH production, and am not surprised to hear this news. His reputation precedes itself. While I would love to see a So-Cal CDI show circuit do well, I doubt this is the person to do it.

                  Interesting to hear that he lives "pay check to pay check" - since he rubs shoulders with lifestyles of the rich and famous. Meanwhile, I suspect some of the judges and show support people that were never paid are feeling the financial pinch more then SH is. He thinks big, and he has access to big name people, but that isn't enough. He either needs to hire people who know the numbers, or he has to learn the numbers himself - and since he doesnt' seem too interested in listening to anyone who isn't important, then I doubt he's going to really learn a lot about the nitty gritty workings of these kind of events (whether clinics or shows).

                  BTW, I have organized some good sized events (100 to 200+ auditors) - and as pointed out, you can NOT oversaturate the market. Basic economics - too much of a good thing, and it isn't a good thing anymore!

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                  • #29
                    Originally posted by MysticOakRanch View Post
                    I attended ONE of the SH events (In So-Cal), and it was pretty poorly organized. I organized a group of friends and we all splurged and bought a VIP table - so it was a pricey event. SH and his crew had not tested the sound system and as a result, we heard NOTHING the entire first day. I searched him down at lunch and told him we could hear nothing, and he really made it clear he didn't care. But there were enough complaints from our side of the tables that they attempted to fix it on day 2 - and DID fix it for a few hours, which resulted in other (more important) tables unable to hear, so they switched it back - so we got a half day of hearing Carl Hester in a 2 day Symposium. For which we had paid for a VIP table - a lot of money for my group of friends!
                    So sorry to hear that you were one of the people that had this problem. Another reason I was happy in the cheap seats; the sound system worked fine for us.

                    You are right that putting on such events is frequently far harder than organizers think!

                    Comment


                    • #30
                      Originally posted by mvp View Post
                      I have been to a couple of the West Coast clinics that Mr. Hayes has organized. I'd estimate that the first was about three years ago, when he was new in the event-planning biz. Mr. Hayes has always struck me as being young. This bit of writing does not show a whole lot of growth. I'm always surprised by the confessional- and "here is how bad I feel" strategy when used by adults in business. Bit of mea culpa-style "taking ownership" is a good place to start. But after that, I think the focus needs to be on what will be done to make things right... not on how they feel and the obstacles to the business and certainly not "I'm telling you all this in order to get out in front of rumors."
                      He does sound young and his facebook letter makes him sound as if he doesn't have an education or background in Business administration. He doesn't mention what he does for a living.

                      Horse show and clinic organization really isn't the place to wing it, if you have no relevant business education and no capital.

                      Comment


                      • #31
                        I went with a group of friends to the Charlotte Dujardin clinic in Ohio, all of us audited and tailgated in the parking lot. The facility was fantastic, no glitches, well run. I can only speak for myself, I wouldn't do it again. Charlotte was everything the other poster mentioned and made it fun, but the basics were repeated over and over, and over again. If you know the basics, you only need to hear it once from Charlotte's point of view. At my next lesson, told my instructor it was refreshing to know we're doing the right thing, everything Charlotte discussed, we work on in lessons. If you have the extra money, it's a good idea to see the BNT in person, but to see them again, and again with "perfect" riders and horses. Hmmm, no so sure.
                        "You gave your life to become the person you are right now. Was it worth it?" Richard Bach

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                        • #32
                          Originally posted by skydy View Post

                          He does sound young and his facebook letter makes him sound as if he doesn't have an education or background in Business administration. He doesn't mention what he does for a living.

                          Horse show and clinic organization really isn't the place to wing it, if you have no relevant business education and no capital.
                          I, too, was at that Del Mar event that had fubar sound. And I was at an Oregon event that somehow didn't get the food right for the people in the VIP section. If you look at the demographic for which these events were planned, you'd know that expensive incompetence is not something they'll sign up for more than once. I am sure that he knew whose money he was trying to earn. So much of the marketing suited his target audience, but details of the execution really did not. Besides some logistical mistakes there were ways in which he addressed the audience in Oregon that were too coarse for the rest of the event he had set up.

                          In terms of the quality of the events Hayes had offered and tried to deliver, he did not start at the bottom. But when he made mistakes or needed help, he wanted a level of casualness or forgiveness that I don't think his paying audience was prepared to give.
                          The armchair saddler
                          Politically Pro-Cat

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                          • #33
                            Originally posted by mvp View Post

                            ...

                            In terms of the quality of the events Hayes had offered and tried to deliver, he did not start at the bottom. But when he made mistakes or needed help, he wanted a level of casualness or forgiveness that I don't think his paying audience was prepared to give.
                            Very well said!

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                            • #34
                              His letter makes it clear that he expects casualness and forgiveness from the people that he hasn't paid.

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                              • #35
                                I went to the CD clinic in Texas. I enjoyed it but the people who paid for the VIP section paid a ridiculous amount compared to what they got. I'm glad I didn't pay for VIP.

                                I wasn't planning on attending to IW clinic in a few weeks. Part of the reason was the astronomical expense. It's $125/day or $225 for the whole clinic to audit. There are plenty of high level trainers that come to this area that I can audit for practically nothing, sometimes even for free.

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