Sport Horse Spotlight

Sternlicht_CF_Stallion_Web-1583x1266

Real Estate Spotlight

Sale Spotlight

COTH_without Subscribe
  • Welcome to the Chronicle Forums.
    Please complete your profile. The forums and the rest of www.chronofhorse.com has single sign-in, so your log in information for one will automatically work for the other. Disclaimer: The opinions expressed here are the views of the individual and do not necessarily reflect the views and opinions of The Chronicle of the Horse.

Announcement

Collapse

Forum rules and no-advertising policy

As a participant on this forum, it is your responsibility to know and follow our rules. Please read this message in its entirety.

Board Rules

1. You�re responsible for what you say.
As outlined in Section 230 of the Communications Decency Act, The Chronicle of the Horse and its affiliates, as well Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd., the developers of vBulletin, are not legally responsible for statements made in the Forums.

This is a public forum viewed by a wide spectrum of people, so please be mindful of what you say and who might be reading it�details of personal disputes may be better handled privately. While posters are legally responsible for their statements, the moderators may in their discretion remove or edit posts, though are not legally obligated to do so, regardless of content.

Users have the ability to modify or delete their own messages after posting. Moderators generally will not delete posts, threads or accounts unless they have been alerted and have determined that a post, thread or user has violated the Forums� policies. Moderators do not regularly independently monitor the Forums for such violations.

Profanity, outright vulgarity, blatant personal insults or otherwise inappropriate statements will not be tolerated and will be dealt with at the discretion of the moderators.

Users may provide their positive or negative experiences with or opinions of companies, products, individuals, etc.; however, accounts involving allegations of criminal behavior against named individuals or companies MUST be first-hand accounts and may NOT be made anonymously.

If a situation has been reported upon by a reputable news source or addressed by law enforcement or the legal system it is open for discussion, but if an individual wants to make their own claims of criminal behavior against a named party in the course of that discussion, they too must identify themselves by first and last name and the account must be first-person.

Criminal allegations that do not satisfy these requirements, when brought to our attention, may be removed pending satisfaction of these criteria, and we reserve the right to err on the side of caution when making these determinations.

Credible threats of suicide will be reported to the police along with identifying user information at our disposal, in addition to referring the user to suicide helpline resources such as 1-800-SUICIDE or 1-800-273-TALK.

2. Conversations in horse-related forums should be horse-related.
The forums are a wonderful source of information and support for members of the horse community. While it�s understandably tempting to share information or search for input on other topics upon which members might have a similar level of knowledge, members must maintain the focus on horses.

3. Keep conversations productive, on topic and civil.
Discussion and disagreement are inevitable and encouraged; personal insults, diatribes and sniping comments are unproductive and unacceptable. Whether a subject is light-hearted or serious, keep posts focused on the current topic and of general interest to other participants of that thread. Utilize the private message feature or personal email where appropriate to address side topics or personal issues not related to the topic at large.

4. No advertising in the discussion forums.
Posts in the discussion forums directly or indirectly advertising horses, jobs, items or services for sale or wanted will be removed at the discretion of the moderators. Use of the private messaging feature or email addresses obtained through users� profiles for unsolicited advertising is not permitted.

Company representatives may participate in discussions and answer questions about their products or services, or suggest their products on recent threads if they fulfill the criteria of a query. False "testimonials" provided by company affiliates posing as general consumers are not appropriate, and self-promotion of sales, ad campaigns, etc. through the discussion forums is not allowed.

Paid advertising is available on our classifieds site and through the purchase of banner ads. The tightly monitored Giveaways forum permits free listings of genuinely free horses and items available or wanted (on a limited basis). Items offered for trade are not allowed.

Advertising Policy Specifics
When in doubt of whether something you want to post constitutes advertising, please contact a moderator privately in advance for further clarification. Refer to the following points for general guidelines:

Horses � Only general discussion about the buying, leasing, selling and pricing of horses is permitted. If the post contains, or links to, the type of specific information typically found in a sales or wanted ad, and it�s related to a horse for sale, regardless of who�s selling it, it doesn�t belong in the discussion forums.

Stallions � Board members may ask for suggestions on breeding stallion recommendations. Stallion owners may reply to such queries by suggesting their own stallions, only if their horse fits the specific criteria of the original poster. Excessive promotion of a stallion by its owner or related parties is not permitted and will be addressed at the discretion of the moderators.

Services � Members may use the forums to ask for general recommendations of trainers, barns, shippers, farriers, etc., and other members may answer those requests by suggesting themselves or their company, if their services fulfill the specific criteria of the original post. Members may not solicit other members for business if it is not in response to a direct, genuine query.

Products � While members may ask for general opinions and suggestions on equipment, trailers, trucks, etc., they may not list the specific attributes for which they are in the market, as such posts serve as wanted ads.

Event Announcements � Members may post one notification of an upcoming event that may be of interest to fellow members, if the original poster does not benefit financially from the event. Such threads may not be �bumped� excessively. Premium members may post their own notices in the Event Announcements forum.

Charities/Rescues � Announcements for charitable or fundraising events can only be made for 501(c)(3) tax-exempt organizations. Special exceptions may be made, at the moderators� discretion and direction, for board-related events or fundraising activities in extraordinary circumstances.

Occasional posts regarding horses available for adoption through IRS-registered horse rescue or placement programs are permitted in the appropriate forums, but these threads may be limited at the discretion of the moderators. Individuals may not advertise or make announcements for horses in need of rescue, placement or adoption unless the horse is available through a recognized rescue or placement agency or government-run entity or the thread fits the criteria for and is located in the Giveaways forum.

5. Do not post copyrighted photographs unless you have purchased that photo and have permission to do so.

6. Respect other members.
As members are often passionate about their beliefs and intentions can easily be misinterpreted in this type of environment, try to explore or resolve the inevitable disagreements that arise in the course of threads calmly and rationally.

If you see a post that you feel violates the rules of the board, please click the �alert� button (exclamation point inside of a triangle) in the bottom left corner of the post, which will alert ONLY the moderators to the post in question. They will then take whatever action, or no action, as deemed appropriate for the situation at their discretion. Do not air grievances regarding other posters or the moderators in the discussion forums.

Please be advised that adding another user to your �Ignore� list via your User Control Panel can be a useful tactic, which blocks posts and private messages by members whose commentary you�d rather avoid reading.

7. We have the right to reproduce statements made in the forums.
The Chronicle of the Horse may copy, quote, link to or otherwise reproduce posts, or portions of posts, in print or online for advertising or editorial purposes, if attributed to their original authors, and by posting in this forum, you hereby grant to The Chronicle of the Horse a perpetual, non-exclusive license under copyright and other rights, to do so.

8. We reserve the right to enforce and amend the rules.
The moderators may delete, edit, move or close any post or thread at any time, or refrain from doing any of the foregoing, in their discretion, and may suspend or revoke a user�s membership privileges at any time to maintain adherence to the rules and the general spirit of the forum. These rules may be amended at any time to address the current needs of the board.

Please see our full Terms of Service and Privacy Policy for more information.

Thanks for being a part of the COTH forums!

(Revised 5/9/18)
See more
See less

Deposit to hold horse

Collapse
X
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Fillyfolly
    started a topic Deposit to hold horse

    Deposit to hold horse

    A fairly beginnery amateur adult rider travelled from six hours away to look at my German Riding Pony for sale about six weeks ago. She really liked my mare and made a good offer about a week later but wanted to take her on trial and I said no ...for one, I'm in Canada and she's in New York State. The woman wants to give me a refundable deposit to hold her until she can bring her coach with her - but that's a month away. She says she is serious and will be doing a PPE ... I don't think I want to accept a refundable deposit as while my horse was really good for her and the coach liked what she saw, I have no guarantees she'll think they are a good match when she sees them go in person. Thoughts?

  • SillyHorse
    replied
    Originally posted by Fillyfolly View Post
    Thanks for this advice - it has helped. I have told the would-be buyer that I am not taking a deposit to hold the horse - especially a refundable one as she has no risk if she doesn't proceed. I will give her a heads-up if someone else comes to see the mare. She and her coach are coming up mid-Sept. and then if the coach likes the horse, I'll ask for a deposit to hold her until a PPE can be done.
    Be sure to make that deposit non-refundable IF the horse passes the PPE and they decide not to buy.

    Leave a comment:


  • soloudinhere
    replied
    I’d personally be inclined to think that any coach who can’t get there before six weeks from now isn’t worth dealing with. After all, I’ve been informed it’s not an Atlantic crossing so she should just be able to pop out.

    I don’t actually understand why newbies shop themselves and then pull in a coach. Either let the coach find you horses, for which you pay for that service and their abilities in selection, or look by yourself, but I’ve never seen it work out that the newbie magically finds a horse herself that the coach agrees on. What actually happens is newbie falls in love with whatever horse, trainer gets worn down and agrees, and then it’s not suitable in the end.

    Leave a comment:


  • OneTwoMany
    replied
    Originally posted by Libby2563 View Post
    Can someone explain this one to me? Why should the seller offer ROFR to a buyer who has already shown she can't follow through quickly and whose trainer hasn't even approved of the horse yet?
    The potential buyer is asking the seller to hold the horse for another month with a "refundable" deposit which is an unrealistic request. No doubt, the seller feels the buyer has expressed some requisite level of interest by spending time and money to travel six hours (each way) to try the horse and the seller is searching for some reasonable middle ground. The seller can say "NO" to the buyer's request for a 30 refundable deposit and risk tanking the negotiations, or the seller can say "Ms. Buyer, I cannot meet your request, but this is what I can offer instead." It all depends on whether the seller wants to keep the buyer engaged in the process or not.

    Originally posted by Libby2563 View Post
    I feel like it would put undue pressure on the buyer to buy a horse who may not even be suitable, while pissing off another buyer who has already proven they're more serious.
    The seller didn't create the situation. The buyer did. If the buyer is unprepared to make a decision, perhaps she shouldn't be shopping just yet. This is an unappreciated aspect of horse selling. Often buyers fail to realize they are not the only interested party, and the seller is likely to be fielding interest from multiple buyers.

    Originally posted by Libby2563 View Post
    Also, as a seller I don't show a horse to anyone without telling them someone else already has a "claim." For example, the last horse I sold had a lot of interest all at once and the first person to try her ended up putting a deposit but couldn't schedule the vetting for about 10 days. I let the other people know they were welcome to come try her but that she was pending vetting. I feel like it's bad business to let someone spend their time trying a horse then tell them, "Actually no, I can't sell it to you until this other person makes up their mind."
    I would agree. OP shouldn't show the horse to other interested parties without disclosing the horse has a deposit on it if that is the case. I think that is why the majority of posters are advising against a deposit. It puts handcuffs on the OP without requiring the buyer to put any real skin in the game.

    Leave a comment:


  • Xanthoria
    replied
    Glad you have a solution. Another idea in this type of situation would be to take a deposit that is refundable until another buyer shows serious interest. IOW horse is still marketed, new potential buyers can try her, but are informed there is one person in line ahead of them. If they're interested, tell the original buyer and she can make the deposit nonrefundable or walk away.

    Pros: You have money in hand so buyer's attachment to buying horse is more solid. You can keep marketing.
    Cons: Some buyers would be put off by being told they're 2nd in line.

    Leave a comment:


  • mvp
    replied
    Originally posted by Fillyfolly View Post
    Thanks for this advice - it has helped. I have told the would-be buyer that I am not taking a deposit to hold the horse - especially a refundable one as she has no risk if she doesn't proceed. I will give her a heads-up if someone else comes to see the mare. She and her coach are coming up mid-Sept. and then if the coach likes the horse, I'll ask for a deposit to hold her until a PPE can be done.
    Sounds clear and fair to me. I think this is what most folks would do. I like following something like Best Practices for an industry when I'm doing business within it. It saves confusion and disappointment.

    Leave a comment:


  • Libby2563
    replied
    Originally posted by OneTwoMany View Post
    You might be better off telling the prospective buyer you will give her right of first refusal for 24 hours in the event another buyer comes along and makes a firm offer or makes an offer contingent on a PPE.
    Can someone explain this one to me? Why should the seller offer ROFR to a buyer who has already shown she can't follow through quickly and whose trainer hasn't even approved of the horse yet? I feel like it would put undue pressure on the buyer to buy a horse who may not even be suitable, while pissing off another buyer who has already proven they're more serious.

    Also, as a seller I don't show a horse to anyone without telling them someone else already has a "claim." For example, the last horse I sold had a lot of interest all at once and the first person to try her ended up putting a deposit but couldn't schedule the vetting for about 10 days. I let the other people know they were welcome to come try her but that she was pending vetting. I feel like it's bad business to let someone spend their time trying a horse then tell them, "Actually no, I can't sell it to you until this other person makes up their mind."

    Leave a comment:


  • Fillyfolly
    replied
    Thanks for this advice - it has helped. I have told the would-be buyer that I am not taking a deposit to hold the horse - especially a refundable one as she has no risk if she doesn't proceed. I will give her a heads-up if someone else comes to see the mare. She and her coach are coming up mid-Sept. and then if the coach likes the horse, I'll ask for a deposit to hold her until a PPE can be done.

    Leave a comment:


  • merrygoround
    replied
    If you are holding the horse 4-6 six weeks until her coach gets motivated to come and look. the deposit is NOT refundable if she does not take the horse. It can be applied to the purchase price if she does take it,

    Leave a comment:


  • mvp
    replied
    Originally posted by soloudinhere View Post

    Why do you feel that the buyer's greenness should be the seller's issue?

    Buyer should not be looking at horses without coach if coach is a key decisionmaker. End of story. I don't think it's realistic for a buyer to expect her coach to attend a live PPE in another country so if she needs that level of input, she should not have looked at this horse in the first place.

    I'd tell the buyer that the horse remains on the market until she can get her butt back there with whoever she needs to make a decision. Either she likes the horse enough that it lights a fire under her ass, or she's not that serious.
    I think I explain why the buyer's greenness is the seller's issue... a bit.

    First, because it's bad business to offer terms that take advantage of the other side's ignorance. At least that's not how I do business. Second, this is a living creature. If the buyer were to coerce the deal a bit and the pony goes to a home where the buyer needs help and the coach can't or won't do that, then what happens to the animal? I have seen newbies part ways with their coaches soon after purchasing the wrong horse on their own. Those horses have a very, very hard time getting sold well. You can picture the reasons why since neither the pro nor the owner can or wishes to market and show them to prospective buyers. I never want to be part of putting an animal in that situation. Usually, there wouldn't be enough money made to make me feel good about it.

    I have been the coach and the buyer in this kind of situation. It happens a lot when folks are on a shopping budget. Their coach won't earn enough in commission to travel to see every horse the buyer thinks is worth a trip to see. As someone who has been riding for a long time, I don't mind doing that first visit myself, video-taping my ride and having the pro watch it before I return. And if I had good info from the seller up front, I'll present all of that to my pro. But you'd be surprised how hard it is to get good enough video in a shareable form for me to send to my pro!

    And I have been the coach who helped the neophyte buyer. Again, because the horse would be cheap and because the buyer didn't know much about choosing suitable candidates, I realized that the usual commission structure wouldn't work. So I offered to watch any video for free and had her pay me for my time if we went to look at a horse that she was serious about. We saw many that were unsuitable, some for reasons she didn't know about ahead of time. Each visit to a horse she didn't buy helped her learn more about how to sort through future candidates better.

    And if I were a truly green buyer, I'd absolutely want my coach in on the PPE. No, the coach doesn't have to travel "to another country" (it's a road trip across the Canadian boarder, not the Atlantic... let's keep to the facts) for a PPE, per se. But that makes lots of sense after the coach has met the horse. It makes no sense to have the newbie buyer go to her first PPE without a coach's help before the pro has met the horse. So between over-stating the kind of "another country" that Canada is vis-a-vis a buyer in New York, and not taking into account when the proposed PPE would be in the deal, I think you are arguing with a straw man of your own devising.

    And the notion about the PPE before the coach has met the horse or given a blessing being good because "both sides will get good information" is bad business! A PPE paid for by the buyer is not done to serve the seller at all.

    And I do think the green buyer is serious... or as serious as she can be given being new to all this and shopping from far away. She is being smart and serious enough to know that she should include her pro in the buying decision. But folks who have budgets and not a lot of knowledge are between a rock and a hard place. I think that might be why the buyer made such a wild suggestion as holding the horse for 30 days.

    I will bet that if the OP said, "Sorry, there's not a non-refundable amount of money that both of us would be happy with that would compensate me for taking him off the market as we bump into the beginning of fall." But don't end with no solution: Offer to keep her in the loop about other people who are coming to try the horse. As Edre (?) said, this gives the buyer a chance to expedite her commitment if she wants to. And I think it's a conventional way of handling this situation, so one needs to risk being treated unfairly or bamboozled because they are a noob to horse trading.
    Last edited by mvp; Aug. 22, 2019, 11:52 AM.

    Leave a comment:


  • trubandloki
    replied
    I am confused, what exactly is the purpose of a deposit if it is fully refundable? I am not talking just horses here either (in other words, this buyer must be green at life, not just horse buying if they think a refundable deposit makes sense here).

    100% refundable = no risk to the buyer and lots of risk to the seller.

    I like Edre's suggestions. Tell them you require a non-refundable deposit to hold the horse or tell them that you will continue to market the horse and let them know if someone else comes along that is interested.

    Leave a comment:


  • OneTwoMany
    replied
    Echoing some earier posters, if the buyer looked at the horse six weeks ago and cannot get her coach in to see the pony for another month, the buyer doesn't sound all that serious, or she lacks a sense of urgency, or the coach might not be into the pony all that much.

    Leave a comment:


  • Edre
    replied
    I think there are two reasonable options here, neither of which has the buyer suggested (as both work against the buyer's interests of "keeping the horse as available as possible for purchase with the least risk possible to me" - not a crack against them, or buyers in general, it's fair that everyone is looking out for their interests but in this case, it's not a reasonable expectation of a seller).

    1. Take no deposit and keep the horse on the market & actively advertising. Inform the buyer that you will not take a refundable deposit & you will not stop marketing the horse, but you will do them the courtesy of informing them if another interested party shows up (so they can expedite their plans if desired).

    2. Estimate what amount of a non refundable deposit makes taking the horse off the market a reasonable option for you. There is not going to be a cut & dry number because this is going to look different to each seller (what makes it "worth it").

    At the end of the day, the experience level of the buyer doesn't really factor into this for me. A buyer is trying to get the best deal for them (the trial, the refundable deposit, etc). This is not in your best interests. The buyer is showing a notable lack of urgency (making contact a week after they tried the horse is good, but that all of this was six weeks ago? and that they're looking for another month more?) which would concern/frustrate me as a seller. Make sure to keep your own interests in mind regardless of what you end up doing, and if you do any form of a deposit (non refundable or otherwise) make sure you get a signed contract for the transaction making it 100% clear what the expectations for this money is.

    Leave a comment:


  • soloudinhere
    replied
    Originally posted by the sandiest shoes View Post

    As a Canadian (now living in the US), driving over the border is really not that huge a deal. I did this with my coach recently for horse shopping. You need a passport but it's less hassle than traffic in most cities, and a 6 hour drive isn't much in my perspective when it comes to horse shopping. YMMV.
    6 hours each way is two full days away from home for said coach, who probably has other horses to ride, clients to teach, and/or chores to do at home.

    I drive across the border all the time - I know what is required - but it's the time away that makes it unrealistic. She should have brought the coach to begin with if her input was mandatory and seeing a video of the trial ride is insufficient.

    Leave a comment:


  • the sandiest shoes
    replied
    Originally posted by soloudinhere View Post
    I don't think it's realistic for a buyer to expect her coach to attend a live PPE in another country so if she needs that level of input, she should not have looked at this horse in the first place.
    As a Canadian (now living in the US), driving over the border is really not that huge a deal. I did this with my coach recently for horse shopping. You need a passport but it's less hassle than traffic in most cities, and a 6 hour drive isn't much in my perspective when it comes to horse shopping. YMMV.

    Leave a comment:


  • atlatl
    replied
    I vetted a horse before I and my coach flew across the country to see him. I didn’t buy him but the seller knew I was serious.

    Leave a comment:


  • soloudinhere
    replied
    Originally posted by mvp View Post
    I think it's unreasonable for a newbie buyer to be asked to do a PPE before her pro has seen the horse. Among other things, the buyer might want her pro to attend or speak with the vet at a level of detail that the newbie buyer doesn't know to ask about. And how can the pro do that without having met the horse?

    I would not agree to those terms, so no one less experienced should, either. Please don't suggest terms that are so one-sided. The horse training biz has a bad enough reputation without a newbie buyer being asked to spend money rather unintelligently just to see if this horse might past muster with a DVM before she knows if it will pass muster with the person who will help her learn to ride it.
    Why do you feel that the buyer's greenness should be the seller's issue?

    Buyer should not be looking at horses without coach if coach is a key decisionmaker. End of story. I don't think it's realistic for a buyer to expect her coach to attend a live PPE in another country so if she needs that level of input, she should not have looked at this horse in the first place.

    I'd tell the buyer that the horse remains on the market until she can get her butt back there with whoever she needs to make a decision. Either she likes the horse enough that it lights a fire under her ass, or she's not that serious.

    Leave a comment:


  • mmeqcenter
    replied
    I would take a non-refundable deposit and hold the horse. A deposit is to hold the horse against other possible purchasers, and mitigate my losses (time, board, etc.) if the purchase does not go through. Returning a deposit after holding a horse for a week or a month leaves me, as the seller, out time and money and lost buyers. I don't do refundable deposits. If a buyer is unwilling for their deposit to be non-refundable, I simply don't hold the horse.
    Last edited by mmeqcenter; Aug. 21, 2019, 09:52 PM.

    Leave a comment:


  • mvp
    replied
    I think it's unreasonable for a newbie buyer to be asked to do a PPE before her pro has seen the horse. Among other things, the buyer might want her pro to attend or speak with the vet at a level of detail that the newbie buyer doesn't know to ask about. And how can the pro do that without having met the horse?

    I would not agree to those terms, so no one less experienced should, either. Please don't suggest terms that are so one-sided. The horse training biz has a bad enough reputation without a newbie buyer being asked to spend money rather unintelligently just to see if this horse might past muster with a DVM before she knows if it will pass muster with the person who will help her learn to ride it.

    Leave a comment:


  • WildLittleWren
    replied
    I wouldn't take a deposit unless it was nonrefundable and reimbursed what you feel your risk is. Do you pay board? You have to take into account the cost to keep the horse an extra month, and that is IF they end up buying it. I also like atlatl's suggestion of having her complete a PPE prior to the trainer coming out. One may never know what could show up on a PPE and could at least give you both important information on if the sale would even proceed (provided the trainer thinks it's a good match). Good luck!

    Leave a comment:

Working...
X