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Woman Shot at Barisone Farm

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  • Originally posted by Denali6298 View Post
    Also, normal people don’t carry a gun unless they actually intend to use it. That’s gun safety 101.
    We have had this conversation before but I will repeat myself - LOTS of normal people carry a gun with no desire to actually use it. You (general) just do not realize they have them since they are not waving them around and saying 'look here, normal person with a gun not using it'.
    Saying normal people do not have guns on them so that means this person must be crazy and premeditated is a serious case of standing on your head and squinting to make something work.

    Disclaimer - I am not saying that it is OK that MB shot LK.

    Comment


    • Originally posted by trubandloki View Post
      We have had this conversation before but I will repeat myself - LOTS of normal people carry a gun with no desire to actually use it. You (general) just do not realize they have them since they are not waving them around and saying 'look here, normal person with a gun not using it'.
      Saying normal people do not have guns on them so that means this person must be crazy and premeditated is a serious case of standing on your head and squinting to make something work.

      Disclaimer - I am not saying that it is OK that MB shot LK.
      But he wasn’t a normal guy who carries a gun. He grabbed an available gun that wasn’t his. If he normally carried it would have been his gun. Instead he picked up the available gun.

      Comment


      • Originally posted by trubandloki View Post
        We have had this conversation before but I will repeat myself - LOTS of normal people carry a gun with no desire to actually use it. You (general) just do not realize they have them since they are not waving them around and saying 'look here, normal person with a gun not using it'.
        Saying normal people do not have guns on them so that means this person must be crazy and premeditated is a serious case of standing on your head and squinting to make something work.

        Disclaimer - I am not saying that it is OK that MB shot LK.
        I was in a training class in Austin a few years ago (for some software my company was using). We were eating lunch with the instructor one of the days and the subject of guns came up. He asked if we realized that 95% of the other trainees (appeared to be upper middle class, white collar professionals, for what it's worth) in the room had guns on them. It's just no big deal there. That was quite the eye-opener, lol.

        Comment


        • Originally posted by Denali6298 View Post

          But he wasn’t a normal guy who carries a gun. He grabbed an available gun that wasn’t his. If he normally carried it would have been his gun. Instead he picked up the available gun.
          Do we know this to be true? Or just speculation? Or insider information? Or info from LK and bf?

          Comment


          • Originally posted by Denali6298 View Post

            Pretty sure if the police found evidence of another weapon, his lawyer as well as the judge would have mentioned it in the bail hearing.

            Also, normal people don’t carry a gun unless they actually intend to use it. That’s gun safety 101.
            I have my LTC and didn't learn that gun safety 101 was don't carry a gun unless I actually intend to use it. I am not sure your wording is correct...

            Humans dont mind duress, in fact they thrive on it. What they mind is not feeling necessary. Sebastian Junger

            Comment


            • Originally posted by Denali6298 View Post

              I’m sorry but some statements by LK you say we should believe and others you don’t. Either we can believe what she says or we continue to think she’s full of it. You can’t have it both ways to fit your narrative.
              Neither can she. I actually don't believe anything she has to say. She has yet to update her profile and is still riding the coattails of MB Dressage for the notoriety along with her "Bronze Medal with Silver on the way" tag line.

              Comment


              • Originally posted by gailbyrd View Post

                Do we know this to be true? Or just speculation? Or insider information? Or info from LK and bf?
                I don’t. But the people, including myself, who carry, don’t just reach for someone else’s gun.

                Comment


                • Originally posted by Bogey2 View Post

                  I have my LTC and didn't learn that gun safety 101 was don't carry a gun unless I actually intend to use it. I am not sure your wording is correct...
                  Wow really? Not my experience. I have never not heard a concealed weapons instructor say that. Maybe that’s the difference? I was going for a concealed permit?

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by Denali6298 View Post

                    I don’t. But the people, including myself, who carry, don’t just reach for someone else’s gun.
                    this is true...
                    Humans dont mind duress, in fact they thrive on it. What they mind is not feeling necessary. Sebastian Junger

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by eggbutt View Post

                      Neither can she. I actually don't believe anything she has to say. She has yet to update her profile and is still riding the coattails of MB Dressage for the notoriety along with her "Bronze Medal with Silver on the way" tag line.
                      You don’t believe anything she has to say but have posted her words as fact to fit your narrative. Funny how you’re still Facebook friends with her.

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by Denali6298 View Post

                        Wow really? Not my experience. I have never not heard a concealed weapons instructor say that. Maybe that’s the difference? I was going for a concealed permit?
                        Mine is a conceal and I learned you don't pull a gun on someone unless you intend to use it. As for carrying I mostly do it to and from the range, MA laws are tricky so I got the LTC to be safe. LOL
                        Humans dont mind duress, in fact they thrive on it. What they mind is not feeling necessary. Sebastian Junger

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by Denali6298 View Post

                          Pretty sure if the police found evidence of another weapon, his lawyer as well as the judge would have mentioned it in the bail hearing.

                          Also, normal people don’t carry a gun unless they actually intend to use it. That’s gun safety 101.
                          In fact the judge specifically mentioned there were NO other weapons.

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by Bogey2 View Post

                            Mine is a conceal and I learned you don't pull a gun on someone unless you intend to use it. As for carrying I mostly do it to and from the range, MA laws are tricky so I got the LTC to be safe. LOL
                            I got mine in WA that goes across 30 states, and had a professor at Central Connecticut State University tell me if you aren’t willing to shoot someone you don’t need a hand gun. But a shot gun to rack and shoot a hole in your ceiling is more than effective. I’m from Connecticut. Step Mom was a Hartford PD detective and the carnage became too much.

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by clanter View Post

                              and then there are us who have to deal with insane people who will not go away and understand how this came to fruition
                              And there are those of us who have found ways to block insane, relentless, abusive people from our lives that didn’t involve shooting them.

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by BigMama1 View Post

                                In fact the judge specifically mentioned there were NO other weapons.
                                Exactly

                                Comment


                                • Originally posted by Pony Fixer View Post
                                  There are a lot of reasons why people are more likely to become victims of violent crime.

                                  One of them is to be a terrible, toxic person.
                                  One of them is to be a black or brown person in the US.
                                  One of them is to be a woman in an abusive relationship.
                                  There are many others.

                                  Many of you put LK in that first category. I don't know her, but if she is as terrible as people say, it probably increases ones chances over the course of their life of becoming a victim of violence. However, that does not mean she "deserves" it any more than any of the other categories.

                                  And before people say, "She could change and not be so terrible"--you have no idea what has made her (or any other person) who she is and act the way she does. People are complicated.

                                  I have no dog in this fight; there are no winners, only losers in this situation. But I had been pushed (and pushed, and pushed) by a toxic human in my life. I would have been more apt to end my life than to shoot that person.
                                  Interesting perspective, which brings up another good question. A lot of people are promoting “pushed and pushed and pushed until he snapped” theory, but didn’t LK and those in the know say this situation boiled up in a very short span of time, just a week or two at most? Not even enough time to start formal eviction proceedings (according to MB’s lawyer at the bail hearing) or get a restraining order? It’s hard for me to reconcile that level of mental anguish after just a few days.

                                  Comment


                                  • Originally posted by Denali6298 View Post

                                    If it comes down to my and my families safety yes. That is something I would do rather then end up in jail. I’m selfish that way. There is no monetary value I can put on my freedom. So yes, I personally would go to Florida early and explain to the clients why. That’s also why I asked the question of how much the clients saw. I know if I was a client and saw that amount of crazy I’d be gone in a heart beat. The area is not hurting for UL dressage trainers.
                                    Remember this all spiraled downhill in the span of a week give or take a few days. How long do you think that it takes to close up a business, winterize a farm, get health certs for horses because FL is really strict about that, pack supplies for horses, pack clothes for people, make arrangement for the grooms, transfer school records for children? They tried to remove themselves from the situation as best they could in a short period of time. They moved out of the main house to the barn.
                                    Even if they started making arrangements Day 1 I don't see logistically how they would be able to logistically pack up all of MH, MB and clients horses and get them out in a week or 10 days. That is assuming that they recognized the threat on Day 1 and that LK/RG started at nuclear levels. My guess is that the initially things were tense and escalated over a few days.
                                    Even if they don't go straight to FL they would need somewhere local to move all the horses except LKs to keep the horses safe and cared for. Or were they supposed to just leave them behind at the farm? You make leaving the farm sound much easier than it really is. Also hindsight is 20/20. If MB knew what the outcome was I can bet he would have made different choices.

                                    Yes people say that if you carry a gun you should be 100% prepared to use it. However I can guarantee there are plenty of people figure if other people know they have a gun is a big deterrent so they won't have to use it.
                                    Maybe they are thinking that they would be willing to use it if threatened or their family was threatened.

                                    People's perception of threat is very different even in exactly the same situation. Some people lock up their house like Fort Knox and have alarm systems and guard dogs and the next door neighbor barely remembers to lock their house, no alarms, no guard dogs. Same neighborhood yet 2 different people see the risk of home intruder's totally differently.

                                    Add stress and sleep deprivation and that may change an individual's perception of a threat and interfere with that individual's ability to make a rational decision.

                                    There are a few people on this thread that make everything seem so black and white. None of us lived through those days before the shooting. None of us have all of the facts. None of us know what MB was feeling, thinking in that moment. None of us know what his defense team's plan is. Yet some posters would lock him up for life without parole without seeing most of the evidence and basing things on very limited information some of which is coming from sources that have been proven to be unreliable. I think there is too much we don't know including NJ laws to be able to make a judgement on what punishment is appropriate. There is a reason that he is entitled to a trial in front of a jury of his peers where both sides gets to present evidence with a judge presiding.

                                    Yes, I was introduced to MB and watched him teach a lesson on the showgrounds in FL. Did I idolize him? No. It isn't my personality to idolize anyone. So don't think that I am defending him because of that.

                                    Do I think that a lot of mistakes were made? Yes. Do I wish this situation had not escalated to the point that somebody got shot? Yes. This whole thing is just such a shame for everybody associated with the farm and their families.

                                    Oh, well, clearly you're not thoroughly indoctrinated to COTH yet, because finger pointing and drawing conclusions are the cornerstones of this great online community. (Tidy Rabbit)

                                    Comment


                                    • Originally posted by SonnysMom View Post

                                      Remember this all spiraled downhill in the span of a week give or take a few days. How long do you think that it takes to close up a business, winterize a farm, get health certs for horses because FL is really strict about that, pack supplies for horses, pack clothes for people, make arrangement for the grooms, transfer school records for children? They tried to remove themselves from the situation as best they could in a short period of time. They moved out of the main house to the barn.
                                      Even if they started making arrangements Day 1 I don't see logistically how they would be able to logistically pack up all of MH, MB and clients horses and get them out in a week or 10 days. That is assuming that they recognized the threat on Day 1 and that LK/RG started at nuclear levels. My guess is that the initially things were tense and escalated over a few days.
                                      Even if they don't go straight to FL they would need somewhere local to move all the horses except LKs to keep the horses safe and cared for. Or were they supposed to just leave them behind at the farm? You make leaving the farm sound much easier than it really is. Also hindsight is 20/20. If MB knew what the outcome was I can bet he would have made different choices.

                                      Yes people say that if you carry a gun you should be 100% prepared to use it. However I can guarantee there are plenty of people figure if other people know they have a gun is a big deterrent so they won't have to use it.
                                      Maybe they are thinking that they would be willing to use it if threatened or their family was threatened.

                                      People's perception of threat is very different even in exactly the same situation. Some people lock up their house like Fort Knox and have alarm systems and guard dogs and the next door neighbor barely remembers to lock their house, no alarms, no guard dogs. Same neighborhood yet 2 different people see the risk of home intruder's totally differently.

                                      Add stress and sleep deprivation and that may change an individual's perception of a threat and interfere with that individual's ability to make a rational decision.

                                      There are a few people on this thread that make everything seem so black and white. None of us lived through those days before the shooting. None of us have all of the facts. None of us know what MB was feeling, thinking in that moment. None of us know what his defense team's plan is. Yet some posters would lock him up for life without parole without seeing most of the evidence and basing things on very limited information some of which is coming from sources that have been proven to be unreliable. I think there is too much we don't know including NJ laws to be able to make a judgement on what punishment is appropriate. There is a reason that he is entitled to a trial in front of a jury of his peers where both sides gets to present evidence with a judge presiding.

                                      Yes, I was introduced to MB and watched him teach a lesson on the showgrounds in FL. Did I idolize him? No. It isn't my personality to idolize anyone. So don't think that I am defending him because of that.

                                      Do I think that a lot of mistakes were made? Yes. Do I wish this situation had not escalated to the point that somebody got shot? Yes. This whole thing is just such a shame for everybody associated with the farm and their families.
                                      Do take note that I said I was selfish and there fore would go straight to f’ this I’m out. Also, I really doubt this went from all happy happy joy joy to a shooting in less than a month. If that’s the case MB is just as nuts as she is.

                                      I don’t tolerate drama. So yes, at the first sign of uncontrollable drama I would have started making moves to leave that would have included decisions.

                                      I think MB thought he could control the drama and realistically couldn’t. Obviously.

                                      Comment


                                      • I suspect what the instructor said was "Don't carry a gun unless you are willing to use it" Not "Don't carry a gun unless you intend to use it." Big difference.

                                        I sometimes carry (yes, I have a license) and while I don't generally walk out intending to use my gun, I am always willing to use it if the situation warrants.

                                        Comment


                                        • Originally posted by BigMama1 View Post

                                          Interesting perspective, which brings up another good question. A lot of people are promoting “pushed and pushed and pushed until he snapped” theory, but didn’t LK and those in the know say this situation boiled up in a very short span of time, just a week or two at most? It’s hard for me to reconcile that level of mental anguish after just a few days.
                                          I have no idea how long it took. But let's flip that around - exactly what was he supposed to do in a matter of days? He has a barn full of horses, employees (who lived on-site? Nearby?), multiple boarders and clients, his furnishings and possessions and to be chased out of his home and off of his property by someone who was asked to leave and refused to do so. The logistics of getting everyone out of there and somewhere else is a nightmare. What are we talking about - 30 horses - more or less?

                                          There are contractual obligations he had to meet, there would be veterinary examinations that would have to be scheduled and happen - he can't just willy nilly waltz on out and leave. His obligations extend beyond himself and his immediate circle of intimates.

                                          Compare and contrast to Lauren and Robert. Two adults, two or three dogs, 3 of 4 horses on site and multiple offers of places for them to take themselves and their animals when she was online stating that the situation was bad. People even offered to pick her and the animals up and take them to safety. I don't know if her fiancé was included in the offer, but I am willing to guess he was welcome too.

                                          I will also point out that abusive people threaten their victims' animals too. How many abused partners refuse to leave because they can't take their dog or cat to a battered spouse shelter? Now multiply it by large incredibly VALUABLE animals that you don't want to abandon. Remember - if you abandon them you can also be sued for doing so.

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