• Welcome to the Chronicle Forums.
    Please complete your profile. The forums and the rest of www.chronofhorse.com has single sign-in, so your log in information for one will automatically work for the other. Disclaimer: The opinions expressed here are the views of the individual and do not necessarily reflect the views and opinions of The Chronicle of the Horse.

Announcement

Collapse

Forum rules and no-advertising policy

As a participant on this forum, it is your responsibility to know and follow our rules. Please read this message in its entirety.

Board Rules

1. You’re responsible for what you say.
As outlined in Section 230 of the Communications Decency Act, The Chronicle of the Horse and its affiliates, as well Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd., the developers of vBulletin, are not legally responsible for statements made in the forums.

This is a public forum viewed by a wide spectrum of people, so please be mindful of what you say and who might be reading it—details of personal disputes are likely better handled privately. While posters are legally responsible for their statements, the moderators may in their discretion remove or edit posts that violate these rules. Users have the ability to modify or delete their own messages after posting, but administrators generally will not delete posts, threads or accounts upon request.

Outright inflammatory, vulgar, harassing, malicious or otherwise inappropriate statements and criminal charges unsubstantiated by a reputable news source or legal documentation will not be tolerated and will be dealt with at the discretion of the moderators.

2. Conversations in horse-related forums should be horse-related.
The forums are a wonderful source of information and support for members of the horse community. While it’s understandably tempting to share information or search for input on other topics upon which members might have a similar level of knowledge, members must maintain the focus on horses.

3. Keep conversations productive, on topic and civil.
Discussion and disagreement are inevitable and encouraged; personal insults, diatribes and sniping comments are unproductive and unacceptable. Whether a subject is light-hearted or serious, keep posts focused on the current topic and of general interest to other participants of that thread. Utilize the private message feature or personal email where appropriate to address side topics or personal issues not related to the topic at large.

4. No advertising in the discussion forums.
Posts in the discussion forums directly or indirectly advertising horses, jobs, items or services for sale or wanted will be removed at the discretion of the moderators. Use of the private messaging feature or email addresses obtained through users’ profiles for unsolicited advertising is not permitted.

Company representatives may participate in discussions and answer questions about their products or services, or suggest their products on recent threads if they fulfill the criteria of a query. False "testimonials" provided by company affiliates posing as general consumers are not appropriate, and self-promotion of sales, ad campaigns, etc. through the discussion forums is not allowed.

Paid advertising is available on our classifieds site and through the purchase of banner ads. The tightly monitored Giveaways forum permits free listings of genuinely free horses and items available or wanted (on a limited basis). Items offered for trade are not allowed.

Advertising Policy Specifics
When in doubt of whether something you want to post constitutes advertising, please contact a moderator privately in advance for further clarification. Refer to the following points for general guidelines:

Horses – Only general discussion about the buying, leasing, selling and pricing of horses is permitted. If the post contains, or links to, the type of specific information typically found in a sales or wanted ad, and it’s related to a horse for sale, regardless of who’s selling it, it doesn’t belong in the discussion forums.

Stallions – Board members may ask for suggestions on breeding stallion recommendations. Stallion owners may reply to such queries by suggesting their own stallions, only if their horse fits the specific criteria of the original poster. Excessive promotion of a stallion by its owner or related parties is not permitted and will be addressed at the discretion of the moderators.

Services – Members may use the forums to ask for general recommendations of trainers, barns, shippers, farriers, etc., and other members may answer those requests by suggesting themselves or their company, if their services fulfill the specific criteria of the original post. Members may not solicit other members for business if it is not in response to a direct, genuine query.

Products – While members may ask for general opinions and suggestions on equipment, trailers, trucks, etc., they may not list the specific attributes for which they are in the market, as such posts serve as wanted ads.

Event Announcements – Members may post one notification of an upcoming event that may be of interest to fellow members, if the original poster does not benefit financially from the event. Such threads may not be “bumped” excessively. Premium members may post their own notices in the Event Announcements forum.

Charities/Rescues – Announcements for charitable or fundraising events can only be made for 501(c)(3) tax-exempt organizations. Special exceptions may be made, at the moderators’ discretion and direction, for board-related events or fundraising activities in extraordinary circumstances.

Occasional posts regarding horses available for adoption through IRS-registered horse rescue or placement programs are permitted in the appropriate forums, but these threads may be limited at the discretion of the moderators. Individuals may not advertise or make announcements for horses in need of rescue, placement or adoption unless the horse is available through a recognized rescue or placement agency or government-run entity or the thread fits the criteria for and is located in the Giveaways forum.

5. Do not post copyrighted photographs unless you have purchased that photo and have permission to do so.

6. Respect other members.
As members are often passionate about their beliefs and intentions can easily be misinterpreted in this type of environment, try to explore or resolve the inevitable disagreements that arise in the course of threads calmly and rationally.

If you see a post that you feel violates the rules of the board, please click the “alert” button (exclamation point inside of a triangle) in the bottom left corner of the post, which will alert ONLY the moderators to the post in question. They will then take whatever action, or no action, as deemed appropriate for the situation at their discretion. Do not air grievances regarding other posters or the moderators in the discussion forums.

Please be advised that adding another user to your “Ignore” list via your User Control Panel can be a useful tactic, which blocks posts and private messages by members whose commentary you’d rather avoid reading.

7. We have the right to reproduce statements made in the forums.
The Chronicle of the Horse may copy, quote, link to or otherwise reproduce posts, or portions of posts, in print or online for advertising or editorial purposes, if attributed to their original authors, and by posting in this forum, you hereby grant to The Chronicle of the Horse a perpetual, non-exclusive license under copyright and other rights, to do so.

8. We reserve the right to enforce and amend the rules.
The moderators may delete, edit, move or close any post or thread at any time, or refrain from doing any of the foregoing, in their discretion, and may suspend or revoke a user’s membership privileges at any time to maintain adherence to the rules and the general spirit of the forum. These rules may be amended at any time to address the current needs of the board.

Please see our full Terms of Service and Privacy Policy for more information.

Thanks for being a part of the COTH forums!

(Revised 1/26/16)
See more
See less

Dressage Riders' opinions on other disciplines?

Collapse
X
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • #41
    We don't have a monopoly on the word, but dressage collection and saddle seat collection are not the same.

    Comment


    • #42
      Originally posted by stolensilver View Post

      I'd also beg to differ about quarterhorses being the most versatile. That title has to be taken by the Thoroughbred. They have been world and olympic class in every sport imaginable.
      You are so right.
      Special Horses - equine volunteer to assist equines in need!
      www.specialhorses.org

      Comment


      • #43
        Originally posted by RodeoQueen View Post
        Stolen Silver, apparently you haven't been exposed to the quarter horse - the most versatile horse in the world.

        Most versatile horse in the world? Nah. That would be taken by Arabians, most likely. Never heard of a quarter horse that could do saddleseat

        Most of those bashing saddleseat here have likely never had the privelege of watching a really good one or haven't been able to observe the training of one. There is no abuse involved, or "jacking their front ends", etc. Pretty inflammatory language from people who evidently don't know much about it.

        Let me put it this way...all disciplines have their abuses and poor riding etc...judging all western pleasure or saddleseat or eventing or whatever by one or two examples of abuse is as ridiculous as saying because someone saw a Dressage horse doing rollkur that all dressage is abusive.

        Comment


        • #44
          It's quite funny that no one is defending the big lick TWH scene isn't it?

          Comment


          • #45
            Originally posted by stolensilver View Post
            It's quite funny that no one is defending the big lick TWH scene isn't it?
            Oh god, don't get me started on that!! I love the flat shod stuff though.

            Comment


            • #46
              I think SLC has said it best but here is my .02 worth.

              Some of us have come to Dressage from other disciplines and the most important thing that we have learned is that Dressage is DIFFERENT We don't say that other disciplines are bad. OK once in awhile we see something that stands our hair on end and we may say that is bad, but for the most part we try to be open minded We really do like to see people enjoying what they do with their horses.

              What we don't like is that so many people want to say that ____________(insert chosen discipline here) is the same as Dressage. The truth is that Dressage is not slow reining or slow barrel racing or whatever. Dressage addresses issues that until you do it, you won't (can't) understand. I am talking about bringing a horse up through the levels, not just doing training/first level.

              For us, Dressage has proven to be "better". We do jump quite a bit but it is the Dressage that is our "thing".

              I have to ask, though, why is everyone so into "claiming" Dressage? You will never hear us Dressage people say, "Why of course we use Western Pleasure basics in our training programs"
              Patty
              www.rivervalefarm.com
              Follow us on facebook - https://www.facebook.com/pages/River...ref=ts&fref=ts

              Comment


              • #47
                I have ridden mainly dressage but have also dabbled in hunt seat, some eventing and non-competitive trail riding.
                I can't say that I have a problem with other disciplines, as long as the horses are trained correctly and the use of artificial means to acheive it (big lick, soring, rollkur etc).
                I have to say that saddleseat is my least favorite and probbly the only discipline that I do not want to try.
                Reining on the other hand- that looks like fun!

                Comment


                • #48
                  Just from me. I have dabbled in Western, tried my hand at polo (disaster!), done some trails, came from an h/j background.

                  So really, I have not formally trained in any other discipline but h/j.

                  However - and this has happened only with correct training, so maybe it is more broadly applicable - nothing has improved myself or my horse more than the low level dressage we do.
                  www.specialhorses.org
                  a 501(c)3 organization helping 501(c)3 equine rescues

                  Comment


                  • #49
                    Dressage simply means "training" - or have we forgotten that?

                    The fundamentals of dressage simply teach a horse to use itself in the most efficient (and pleasant for the rider ) way. Driving from behind, lifting the back to keep those muscles engaged, responsiveness...these are beneficial to any equine athlete.

                    Dressage does address issues that you won't see addressed in other disciplines if they aren't being taught with correct fundamentals. That's the whole idea behind using dressage to build those fundamentals, regardless of discipline.

                    Yes, a world champ WP horse and a winning GP dressage horse look - and are "finished" - completely differently. But both [should] have the same fundamentals. That's the point.

                    Maybe the problem is that dressage people claim those fundamentals as their own. I mean, you'd be hard-pressed to find a dressage person (or any other knowledgeable rider) who didn't defined roundness, suppleness, throughness, etc as being "dressage principles," when honestly they are just principles of any discipline ridden (or driven ) well. So, tell you what: as soon as the dressage world stops defining those things as being dressage, I'll stop saying I use dressage basics when training for any discipline. Until then, if I want to give an honest, understandable explanation of my training technique, I'm going to have to say that I start every horse with dressage.

                    ETA: Rugged Lark's sire was a TB - so I say Ted is right!
                    Proud member of the EDRF

                    Comment


                    • #50
                      Originally posted by vestito View Post
                      Clean changes, unlike so many hunters I see at the shows who go half way around the ring, cross cantering.
                      I laugh and appreciate the hunter "change" comment. I agree, far too many hunters cross canter and pull into thier changes. However a GOOD hunter, that jumps well, off his hindend isn't going to being crossing cantering or popping out heavy changes. I know my trainer would prefer my horse to cross canter, unbalanced, but rocked back over pulling down and falling on his forehand into a change. He was taught "bend to the inside kick with the outside" to change, but that's not a proper change. His change will never be as fabulous as his big brothers (an I1 horse) but his big brother wouldn't be half as fabulous over a fence. (His big "brother" is my mom's I1 horse, thier not related by blood. ) A good change can be done on a straight line, without all this over bending and pulling seen (more) in the lower level hunters.

                      A funny story told to me by mom's friend (a dressage trainer, who really knows her stuff, but not so much about other disciplines). We were talking about one who's needs a new home, as a hunter. However this horse doesn't have a change. It's a wobbly, pully, unbalanced attempt at a change that results in one a couple strides after asked. Her response was "well who cares, he can be a hunter!". Chances are, if his change is that bad his jumps will reflect it.

                      Comment


                      • #51
                        Originally posted by NoDQhere View Post
                        Some of us have come to Dressage from other disciplines and the most important thing that we have learned is that Dressage is DIFFERENT We don't say that other disciplines are bad. OK once in awhile we see something that stands our hair on end and we may say that is bad, but for the most part we try to be open minded We really do like to see people enjoying what they do with their horses.

                        What we don't like is that so many people want to say that ____________(insert chosen discipline here) is the same as Dressage. The truth is that Dressage is not slow reining or slow barrel racing or whatever. Dressage addresses issues that until you do it, you won't (can't) understand. I am talking about bringing a horse up through the levels, not just doing training/first level.
                        Dressage is different? Everything is different! Cutting is different from reining. Reining is different from barrel racing. I don't think anyone is saying that all the disciplines are the same, just that they have found it helpful to incorporate dressage principles into their work. Why is it a problem that other people should benefit from dressage, even if they are not 100% devoted to it in mind, body and spirit? Is dressage like modern art, where if an outsider tries to talk about it we just pat them on the shoulder and tell them, "There, there, you just don't understand"?
                        For us, Dressage has proven to be "better". We do jump quite a bit but it is the Dressage that is our "thing".
                        Dressage is better? I don't feel this way at all. I don't hold dressage up on a pedestal. I don't think it is a magickal way of communing with equus, and I don't think it is like dancing with faeries. But it is a damn good way of training a horse! (Sure beats Parelli... ) There's no need to be resentful that dressage is so inclusive. It is a good thing!

                        Comment


                        • #52
                          Originally posted by Soldier06 View Post
                          I laugh and appreciate the hunter "change" comment. I agree, far too many hunters cross canter and pull into thier changes. However a GOOD hunter, that jumps well, off his hindend isn't going to being crossing cantering or popping out heavy changes. However this horse doesn't have a change. It's a wobbly, pully, unbalanced attempt at a change that results in one a couple strides after asked. Her response was "well who cares, he can be a hunter!". Chances are, if his change is that bad his jumps will reflect it.
                          Actually, a hunter with a bad lead change (or only half of one ) will NOT sell well and will NOT pin except in very low levels/little competition. My older horse (who was "schooling first/second level"--I have no idea levels of what because it certainly wasn't dressage ) flat-out lost classes due to his lack of a clean lead change. Once that was installed (via dressage), he would hold his own in the ribbons.
                          "And now . . .off to violin-land, where all is sweetness and delicacy and harmony and there are no red-headed clients to vex us with their conundrums."

                          Comment


                          • #53
                            Endurance

                            Here is my third/fourth level dressage horse competing in LD Endurance. He is only trained in the arena and hacking on trails, not endurance trained, but he still came in 25th out of 47 starters! Says a lot about dressage, doesn't it!?

                            http://s228.photobucket.com/albums/ee203/Atheta21/

                            Comment


                            • #54
                              .

                              For versatility try a mule! Lots of fun. The shows are fun and we used to try for all around not just w. pleasure etc. Rail classes, equitation, games, put to cart., jumping..it was fun. I will say when we started dressage with our mule in preparation for eventing...she won 4H state western pleasure for several years. It improved her movement so much! DRessage is good for all disciplines!

                              Comment


                              • #55
                                I should know better than to get involved in a thread like this

                                I always thought there was one correct definition for collection. Because the vast majority of the equestrian population misuses the definition to mean slow/frame/whatever doesn't mean there are several definitions.

                                I feel I have the right to claim my fundamentals as dressage-like After all, I've taken dressage lessons, watched countless videos, read books and articles and have gone to dressage shows. And I train and show - get this - western pleasure horses :0

                                The breed of horse I show does do saddleseat, although it's not my forte. I have worked at a ss barn and have been to all the top shows of this breed. There are very few horses that can do the discipline ideally. The horses that are not athletic enough to do it the right way are taught to "get a pretty front end" by picking them up in the bridle and hollowing their backs. Some who see a pretty front end forget the rest of the horse and ooh and aah. It's a big, well known problem in this breed, though many are trying to change it at this time. It's not typically done because a trainer doesn't know better, rather it's done to give a horse with perhaps no other career option a reason to hang in there. Stay tuned.

                                The discipline I don't really get, and I'm sorry, is the hack classes at the h/j shows. I've seen videos of some of the big shows and most of the horses appear to be naturally good movers, but are ridden very forward to get the "see, mine is tracking up" look without actually driving through the hocks and up over the topline. It's peculiar to me to see all of that good energy go forward and be gone!

                                I go to a lot of endurance rides (though can't consider myself an "endurance rider" as I've only done about a half-dozen 25s). I do it just for fun because my parents are really into it and it's fun family time (though they leave me in the dust with their 50s and 100s). I have to say the endurance crowd is a tough one! Sure, there are a few horses (usually the top ones at the big rides) who have some great basics, but most are brave, competitive horsepersons who are in it for the thrill, and the hotter and the wilder the horse, the more he may be capable of finishing "fit to continue"

                                Comment


                                • #56
                                  Originally posted by stolensilver View Post
                                  The KWPN for some reason only known to themselves has just ruled that a stallion must be considered dressage or jumper, not both and crossing between the two books is not encouraged. Bizarre. It is widely said that dressage horses regularly need an infusion of jumping blood to keep the power in the quarters.
                                  Wrong. Specialization in the KWPN has been done because it is reckognized the dressage horses, jumpers (and hunters too, here in NA there is a hunter division as well) have different demands in their sport and different things that will make them best for that sport. Any breeder is more than welcome to cross between any of the KWPN books, including the Gelders and harness Horse book as well, and the KWPN will recommend a breeding direction based ont he foals pedigree, but that can be chnged at the keuring when the foal is presented and the jury and owners confer about it. So the reason is known and the breeder is free to cross breed between 5 different types as they please.

                                  And for anyone who has any questions about saddle seat riding please feel free to ask. I admire all good riding, but saddle seat is my favorite seat to ride, it should be a graceful and minimalist way to ride (lower legs are off the horse, not constantly squeezing/spurring, hands should be light, its about staying out of the horses way and letting him perform).

                                  Comment


                                  • #57
                                    Originally posted by Showbizz View Post
                                    I always thought there was one correct definition for collection. Because the vast majority of the equestrian population misuses the definition to mean slow/frame/whatever doesn't mean there are several definitions.
                                    Maybe WE are the ones who are misusing the term?
                                    The breed of horse I show does do saddleseat, although it's not my forte. I have worked at a ss barn and have been to all the top shows of this breed. There are very few horses that can do the discipline ideally. The horses that are not athletic enough to do it the right way are taught to "get a pretty front end" by picking them up in the bridle and hollowing their backs. Some who see a pretty front end forget the rest of the horse and ooh and aah. It's a big, well known problem in this breed, though many are trying to change it at this time. It's not typically done because a trainer doesn't know better, rather it's done to give a horse with perhaps no other career option a reason to hang in there. Stay tuned.
                                    Yup, top saddleseat horses are a rare find. It's relatively easy to get the front-end action, but that's only scratching the surface. The hind-end is what is really important. Trailing hocks are a huge no-no, and you're absolutely right that lesser horses will hollow their backs to compensate for their weaknesses.

                                    Comment

                                    Working...
                                    X