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Choosing your judge!

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  • KBC
    started a topic Choosing your judge!

    Choosing your judge!

    I am conflicted:


    I understand people having Favorite judges, and people they would not want to ride for. I get choosing your shows, and not going to a show if you feel that it would be a waste of your entry fee, because you feel you would not get the marks you ‘deserve’ no matter how wrong that thought is.

    I am a little shocked to hear from an acquaintance that she is entering a show where there are two judges, and she has requested not to ride for Judge A, and was told that they will arrange that!

    I would have thought that either you don't attend, or you put your entries in and just scratch from any classes with the ‘wrong’ judge.


  • hank
    replied
    Originally posted by Belowthesalt View Post

    I had something like that happen (with 3 judges). It was year end and everyone was trying to get that last qualifying score for championships. My score from two of the judges was 66-70% The third judge gave me a 55%(!). The scores stood, but after the fact, I was told the other two judges (both of whom were S judges) had "spoken to" the third judge (an R judge). I never rode before that third judge again. And it wasn't by choice. Seems she wasn't used much in our area after that...….Don't know if that's why, but....
    And that is why I no longer show. I was once at a show with a three judge system. One judge gave me first place, one judge gave me third place, and one didn't know I was in the class. They all saw the same go. It occurred to me that I had been giving way too much attention to other people's opinion, paid or otherwise. I still very much enjoy riding, but no longer seek opinions, except for those of clinicians I respect.

    Leave a comment:


  • Belowthesalt
    replied
    Originally posted by MojitoMare View Post
    I just came back from a show that had a judge at C and one at B. I've never had that happen before, unless it was championships. The judge at C gave us scores that would have counted toward my bronze. The judge at B scored everyone 5-10 percentage points lower. I was told the average score would be counted towards the medals. So instead of a 61.2 and 62.0 at 3rd level (my first time out at 3rd), I ended up with 2 58 somethings. It wrankled a bit. But I'd never think of asking show management to rearrange the judging situation for me. As others have stated, the only legitimate reason for a request like that would be if there was a conflict of interest or you're working toward a medal and already have scores from that judge. I'm just going to keep on keeping on, continue taking lessons, continue learning, hopefully improving, and earn my scores because I deserve them, not because I shopped for judges.
    I had something like that happen (with 3 judges). It was year end and everyone was trying to get that last qualifying score for championships. My score from two of the judges was 66-70% The third judge gave me a 55%(!). The scores stood, but after the fact, I was told the other two judges (both of whom were S judges) had "spoken to" the third judge (an R judge). I never rode before that third judge again. And it wasn't by choice. Seems she wasn't used much in our area after that...….Don't know if that's why, but....

    Leave a comment:


  • Belowthesalt
    replied
    I had to have an argument/discussion with show runners because they had named one judge and the other was TBD. When I arrived at the show, it turned out the TBD judge was my boarding barn owner. I asked to have the ride either rescheduled to the other judge or my fee for that one class refunded, because I could not ride before her. They insisted I could. I finally had to have the Judge/BO tell that that no, she could not judge me. They finally agreed to carry the fee over to their next show or whatever next show of theirs I entered.

    Leave a comment:


  • MojitoMare
    replied
    I just came back from a show that had a judge at C and one at B. I've never had that happen before, unless it was championships. The judge at C gave us scores that would have counted toward my bronze. The judge at B scored everyone 5-10 percentage points lower. I was told the average score would be counted towards the medals. So instead of a 61.2 and 62.0 at 3rd level (my first time out at 3rd), I ended up with 2 58 somethings. It wrankled a bit. But I'd never think of asking show management to rearrange the judging situation for me. As others have stated, the only legitimate reason for a request like that would be if there was a conflict of interest or you're working toward a medal and already have scores from that judge. I'm just going to keep on keeping on, continue taking lessons, continue learning, hopefully improving, and earn my scores because I deserve them, not because I shopped for judges.

    Leave a comment:


  • alibi_18
    replied
    Every rider can ask, show organizers can decide.

    I’ve never had to ask to ride (or not) in front of a specific judge.

    I also never had problems with the quality of the judging on National shows (Gold).

    But at the lower levels (Regional/Bronze), I know which show I might not attend if I was looking for an accurate score because there are lower level judges I know who are inconsistent/inapprehensible in their scoring. (I know them personally and ain’t font of their riding style.)

    So I understand why riders might want to avoid certain judges. They should talk with the show organizer and let them know their reasons for not wanting to show under whatever judge.

    On the other hand, I know some riders who are a little cray-cray...
    One lady thought there was a plot against her because 2 judges, on 2 different day, rang her horse out for lameness...


    Originally posted by atlatl View Post
    (...) and asked if I would scribe her PSG ride instead of the scribe who had been struggling all day. I was happy to help.
    As I always say, scribing should be a paid position and scribe should have some sort of training prior to working.
    It wouldn’t have to be a lot of money, or a huge training, but damn it, people pay to get their scores and comments and I know for a fact, especially at the lower levels, that there is a lot of mistakes going on.

    I saw a lot of crappy scribing and there are rules at CDI’s regarding the experience of the scribes...
    Sadly, it’s never enforced.

    Leave a comment:


  • LilyandBaron
    replied
    I don't think it hurts to ask, regardless of motive. Worst case for the exhibitor is the request is denied, at which point they can opt to enter or not. I also don't mind being able to boycott certain judges. Some of them aren't great and I'd hate to spend my show budget in front of them. Of course, some exhibitors can't handle painful truth, so it swings both ways...

    Leave a comment:


  • MissAriel
    replied
    Another reason to request not to show under a particular judge, that is mentioned in the rules, is if you have taken lessons or a clinic with that judge recently or have other familial or financial ties.

    Leave a comment:


  • atlatl
    replied
    People who ask for a specific judge should take a turn at scheduling rides for a show, any show. It ain't easy.

    The one time I asked to ride under a different judge was to get qualifying scores under another judge. It turned out that there were a couple of us in the same boat for the same class so we went to show management together and very nicely asked if something could be worked out. Show management talked to the desired judge who agreed to come to the show early so that we could ride for him before his ring was scheduled to start.

    Super nice on both the parts of the show management and the judge. Certainly, I would have understood if they didn't accommodate the request. I was able to return the favor years later when I was an L candidate and doing "sitting hours." The same lady who helped me was the last ride of the day and asked if I would scribe her PSG ride instead of the scribe who had been struggling all day. I was happy to help.

    Leave a comment:


  • Groom&Taxi
    replied
    Requesting one judge of two because you have scores under one but can use scores under the other seems totally legit.

    Requesting one judge of two because you don't like one... eh. If I put on my hat as a prospective exhibitor, I think it probably doesn't hurt to ask. If there was only going to be one judge at the show, and you knew you didn't want to show under that judge, you just wouldn't enter, but rated shows cost enough that you may not want to take the chance in a 50/50 situation.

    If I put on a show secretary or manager hat, I probably would not care to accommodate the request if I knew that judge preference was the reason for it. However, I would probably be used to receiving requests for reasons of qualifying/medals scores so I would probably just assume that was the reason behind this request as well.

    Leave a comment:


  • Edre
    replied
    I think motivation comes into play. Wanting to ride for a certain judge because you don't want to RIDE for another judge feels off to me. In a score qualifier situation, the rider has already received scores from the one judge and needs scores from different judges to meet the requirements.

    it feels very clear to me - one is "I don't like this judge and don't want to ride for them" (don't enter the show, scratch the class with them, contact shoe management if there's a legitimate and demonstrable grievance or complaint about the judge). The other is "I am willing to ride for all officials in this show but am looking to get qualifying scores so need more judge diversity."

    Leave a comment:


  • KBC
    replied
    Originally posted by Edre View Post
    Same as the above: I've requested judges from a qualifying score perspective and have generously been accommodated but they absolutely aren't required to do so.

    Going to a show where you prefer one judge over another and ask only to ride for that judge leaves a sour note with me.
    I get choosing a judge that way round, if you need scores from different judges, but now I’m even more conflicted...if it is OK to choose for that reason, then the action is OK, but not the reasoning behind it in this case. That makes it even more of a conundrum.

    Leave a comment:


  • Edre
    replied
    Same as the above: I've requested judges from a qualifying score perspective and have generously been accommodated but they absolutely aren't required to do so.

    Going to a show where you prefer one judge over another and ask only to ride for that judge leaves a sour note with me.

    Leave a comment:


  • joiedevie99
    replied
    I've requested specific judges before, and had it accommodated, but not for that reason!

    One particular judge is very popular around here. I already had qualifying scores from her. Showing in front of her again wouldn't accomplish anything. The secretary was happy to make sure I ended up in front of someone else for my qualifying rides.

    Leave a comment:

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