Announcement

Collapse
1 of 2 < >

We're Back!

We experienced a cyber attack that wiped out the site's content earlier this week via a software vulnerability, but the developers were able to restore everything from backups.

We updated our software to implement available patches and will be making further cosmetic changes to the site to restore it. Performance is slow right now, but by early next week, the developers will have restored a few optimization strategies they usually have in place to keep things percolating smoothly.

Going forward, we will make some changes to the site to limit the number of customizations we implement to the software, so that it is easier to keep current on updates and patches if they are released.

The developers do not believe that this was a "personal" attack, where someone is targeting the Chronicle's site with malicious intent against us specifically. These cyber jerks apparently just cruise the Internet, scanning for known vulnerabilities to attack.

They are confident passwords were not accessed, but even if they were, we store password encrypted, so that should not be an issue. Of course, if anyone has concerns about password security, changing related passwords is always an option for peace of mind.

Please report any glitches in a thread we'll be starting in the Help forum.
2 of 2 < >

Forum rules and no-advertising policy

As a participant on this forum, it is your responsibility to know and follow our rules. Please read this message in its entirety.

Board Rules

1. You're responsible for what you say.
As outlined in Section 230 of the Communications Decency Act, The Chronicle of the Horse and its affiliates, as well Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd., the developers of vBulletin, are not legally responsible for statements made in the Forums.

This is a public forum viewed by a wide spectrum of people, so please be mindful of what you say and who might be reading it--details of personal disputes may be better handled privately. While posters are legally responsible for their statements, the moderators may in their discretion remove or edit posts, though are not legally obligated to do so, regardless of content.

Users have the ability to modify or delete their own messages after posting. Moderators generally will not delete posts, threads or accounts unless they have been alerted and have determined that a post, thread or user has violated the Forums' policies. Moderators do not regularly independently monitor the Forums for such violations.

Profanity, outright vulgarity, blatant personal insults or otherwise inappropriate statements will not be tolerated and will be dealt with at the discretion of the moderators.

Users may provide their positive or negative experiences with or opinions of companies, products, individuals, etc.; however, accounts involving allegations of criminal behavior against named individuals or companies MUST be first-hand accounts and may NOT be made anonymously.

If a situation has been reported upon by a reputable news source or addressed by law enforcement or the legal system it is open for discussion, but if an individual wants to make their own claims of criminal behavior against a named party in the course of that discussion, they too must identify themselves by first and last name and the account must be first-person.

Criminal allegations that do not satisfy these requirements, when brought to our attention, may be removed pending satisfaction of these criteria, and we reserve the right to err on the side of caution when making these determinations.

Credible threats of suicide will be reported to the police along with identifying user information at our disposal, in addition to referring the user to suicide helpline resources such as 1-800-SUICIDE or 1-800-273-TALK.

2. Conversations in horse-related forums should be horse-related.
The forums are a wonderful source of information and support for members of the horse community. While it's understandably tempting to share information or search for input on other topics upon which members might have a similar level of knowledge, members must maintain the focus on horses.

3. Keep conversations productive, on topic and civil.
Discussion and disagreement are inevitable and encouraged; personal insults, diatribes and sniping comments are unproductive and unacceptable. Whether a subject is light-hearted or serious, keep posts focused on the current topic and of general interest to other participants of that thread. Utilize the private message feature or personal email where appropriate to address side topics or personal issues not related to the topic at large.

4. No advertising in the discussion forums.
Posts in the discussion forums directly or indirectly advertising horses, jobs, items or services for sale or wanted will be removed at the discretion of the moderators. Use of the private messaging feature or email addresses obtained through users' profiles for unsolicited advertising is not permitted.

Company representatives may participate in discussions and answer questions about their products or services, or suggest their products on recent threads if they fulfill the criteria of a query. False "testimonials" provided by company affiliates posing as general consumers are not appropriate, and self-promotion of sales, ad campaigns, etc. through the discussion forums is not allowed.

Paid advertising is available on our classifieds site and through the purchase of banner ads. The tightly monitored Giveaways forum permits free listings of genuinely free horses and items available or wanted (on a limited basis). Items offered for trade are not allowed.

Advertising Policy Specifics
When in doubt of whether something you want to post constitutes advertising, please contact a moderator privately in advance for further clarification. Refer to the following points for general guidelines:

Horses -- Only general discussion about the buying, leasing, selling and pricing of horses is permitted. If the post contains, or links to, the type of specific information typically found in a sales or wanted ad, and it's related to a horse for sale, regardless of who's selling it, it doesn't belong in the discussion forums.

Stallions -- Board members may ask for suggestions on breeding stallion recommendations. Stallion owners may reply to such queries by suggesting their own stallions, only if their horse fits the specific criteria of the original poster. Excessive promotion of a stallion by its owner or related parties is not permitted and will be addressed at the discretion of the moderators.

Services -- Members may use the forums to ask for general recommendations of trainers, barns, shippers, farriers, etc., and other members may answer those requests by suggesting themselves or their company, if their services fulfill the specific criteria of the original post. Members may not solicit other members for business if it is not in response to a direct, genuine query.

Products -- While members may ask for general opinions and suggestions on equipment, trailers, trucks, etc., they may not list the specific attributes for which they are in the market, as such posts serve as wanted ads.

Event Announcements -- Members may post one notification of an upcoming event that may be of interest to fellow members, if the original poster does not benefit financially from the event. Such threads may not be "bumped" excessively. Premium members may post their own notices in the Event Announcements forum.

Charities/Rescues -- Announcements for charitable or fundraising events can only be made for 501(c)(3) tax-exempt organizations. Special exceptions may be made, at the moderators' discretion and direction, for board-related events or fundraising activities in extraordinary circumstances.

Occasional posts regarding horses available for adoption through IRS-registered horse rescue or placement programs are permitted in the appropriate forums, but these threads may be limited at the discretion of the moderators. Individuals may not advertise or make announcements for horses in need of rescue, placement or adoption unless the horse is available through a recognized rescue or placement agency or government-run entity or the thread fits the criteria for and is located in the Giveaways forum.

5. Do not post copyrighted photographs unless you have purchased that photo and have permission to do so.

6. Respect other members.
As members are often passionate about their beliefs and intentions can easily be misinterpreted in this type of environment, try to explore or resolve the inevitable disagreements that arise in the course of threads calmly and rationally.

If you see a post that you feel violates the rules of the board, please click the �alert� button (exclamation point inside of a triangle) in the bottom left corner of the post, which will alert ONLY the moderators to the post in question. They will then take whatever action, or no action, as deemed appropriate for the situation at their discretion. Do not air grievances regarding other posters or the moderators in the discussion forums.

Please be advised that adding another user to your �Ignore� list via your User Control Panel can be a useful tactic, which blocks posts and private messages by members whose commentary you'd rather avoid reading.

7. We have the right to reproduce statements made in the forums.
The Chronicle of the Horse may copy, quote, link to or otherwise reproduce posts, or portions of posts, in print or online for advertising or editorial purposes, if attributed to their original authors, and by posting in this forum, you hereby grant to The Chronicle of the Horse a perpetual, non-exclusive license under copyright and other rights, to do so.

8. We reserve the right to enforce and amend the rules.
The moderators may delete, edit, move or close any post or thread at any time, or refrain from doing any of the foregoing, in their discretion, and may suspend or revoke a user's membership privileges at any time to maintain adherence to the rules and the general spirit of the forum. These rules may be amended at any time to address the current needs of the board.

Please see our full Terms of Service and Privacy Policy for more information.

Thanks for being a part of the COTH forums!

(Revised 5/9/18)
See more
See less

UPDATE: help with sales dressage horse scam...

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • UPDATE: help with sales dressage horse scam...

    Anyone heard of the following scam?

    More info to follow in comment below.
    Last edited by aliashorsescam; Jun. 6, 2019, 07:09 PM.

  • #2
    confirmed scam.
    Last edited by aliashorsescam; Jun. 6, 2019, 08:53 PM.

    Comment


    • #3
      So someone bought a horse without laying actual eyes on it? Or having it vetted?
      www.settlementfarm.us

      Comment


      • #4
        Yep sounds like a scam. That said, this video - whoever it is - is a nice horse, but certainly not GP. No tempis, no pirouettes, no baby piaffe or passage...Wow that would suck to have your video used in some scam ad...

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by dotneko View Post
          So someone bought a horse without laying actual eyes on it? Or having it vetted?
          I have done exactly that.

          I rode a friend's horse and loved him (long term ride while she convalesced). Based on my experience with that horse, I talked to the breeder, asked if she had any more by the stallion. She said yes, and based off a 39 second video I had the horse shipped across the US never having laid eyes on the animal I had just bought.

          No vetting the horse. I vetted the seller. Horse is working out ok.
          Do not confuse motion and progress. A rocking horse keeps moving but does not make any progress.
          Alfred A. Montapert

          Comment


          • #6
            That horse has a facebook page with no information on it.

            Maybe someone recognizes the language in the background of one of the videos or the logo on the saddle pad. This video is not on youtube.

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by pluvinel View Post

              I have done exactly that.

              I rode a friend's horse and loved him (long term ride while she convalesced). Based on my experience with that horse, I talked to the breeder, asked if she had any more by the stallion. She said yes, and based off a 39 second video I had the horse shipped across the US never having laid eyes on the animal I had just bought.

              No vetting the horse. I vetted the seller. Horse is working out ok.
              Wow. Never in a million years would I do that. Ive had clients vet lots of horses who did not pass. Not to mention that just because a horse is by the same stallion it wont necessarily be anything like what you rode. But good luck.
              www.settlementfarm.us

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by dotneko View Post

                Wow. Never in a million years would I do that. Ive had clients vet lots of horses who did not pass. Not to mention that just because a horse is by the same stallion it wont necessarily be anything like what you rode. But good luck.
                I don't necessarily like or agree with everything Pluvinel posts but my experience here on COTH tells me her/his horsemanship is pretty much without question and I'm not at all surprised that the horse turned out OK.
                Rack on!

                Comment


                • #9
                  I strung a scam along for awhile years ago but could never figure out the angle. They stole a video, made a online listing, wouldn't let me come see the horse but were going to allow me to take the horse on trial for a month.

                  They never asked for any money, but I never got to the point of arranging for delivery, either. Maybe that was the point they would've tried to extract money from me.

                  Comment


                  • #10

                    You need to contact your bank and the FBI (yes, fbi) immediately. They have a cyber crime division that may be able to assist with the investigation and determine the location of your scammer by looking into the data that is sent within your communications with them.

                    The sad truth is that your scammer likely lives in an eastern block or african country where there will be little recourse for their actions.

                    If by some divine intervention your scammer Is actually physically located in the US or Canada, you may get lucky. This situation is highly unlikely though.

                    i am very sorry.

                    These scams are prolific and unfortunately rarely prosecuted. Old school hacking into data to commit financial crimes is dying out, and good old fashioned social engineering is on the rise. This isn't the first time I've heard of this happening in the horse world. A few years back.a hacker took over the credentials of a reputable seller and rerouted the funds for a high dollar sale into an unrecoverable account. I may have read about it here but i am not certain on that.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      confirmed scam; thanks for the help.
                      Last edited by aliashorsescam; Jun. 6, 2019, 08:54 PM.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by dotneko View Post

                        Wow. Never in a million years would I do that. Ive had clients vet lots of horses who did not pass. Not to mention that just because a horse is by the same stallion it wont necessarily be anything like what you rode. But good luck.
                        I have never vetted a horse. Then again, I buy young horses. Except for the first one. He was an advanced 3-day eventer that I bought from someone who didn't want to ship the horse back from Aiken. I rode him cross country once and wrote a check.

                        If you have been on this BB any length of time, then you have read the story of the Hanoverian I bought. I saw it as a weanling. Bred in Germany. Imported in-utero with German pink papers.

                        Fast forward 2 yrs. I hear the horse is for sale as the breeder has health issues and is doing herd dispersal. I wrote a check sight unseen, and I got the horse for a nominal price because it had an "iffy" hock X-yays of the Left hock.

                        I showed the radiographs to a vet who said "Don't buy." Well that was about 3 months after I had taken possession of the horse.

                        Fast forward 11 years, I want to sell Hanoverian horse to buy a Lusitano stallion. So with the history of the "bad" hock X-rays, I take the Hano to New Bolton to have bilateral hock X-rays. Well, it turns out the Right hock was "worse" than the Left. Horse had never taken a wrong/lame step. And because I had the radiographs from when he was 2 yr old, that showed no degenerative changes, he sold well. That horse took me to 3rd level.....and I would have missed out on him if I had listened to a vet who said "Don't buy."

                        I have since bought other horses, including the Lusitano stallion who was 4 with 10 rides under saddle when I bought him....others were youngsters in the weanling to 2-yr old range with no horse vetting. If it moves well, has a pulse and isn't blind, it is a candidate if I like the animal. I figure at that young age, there is little chance of human interference creating problems, but there is a lot of future potential suicidal/self-destructive mischief by the horse.

                        I DO vet sellers.....and cannot emphasize how important this is.
                        Do not confuse motion and progress. A rocking horse keeps moving but does not make any progress.
                        Alfred A. Montapert

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Agreed. I wish she had reached out before she purchased; many of us would have steered her away. Super sad.

                          BTW, pluvinel, have you seen the recent Facebook posts (if you are on FB) about xrays and vetting horses?

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            So why would you confirm it was a scam but redact all the particulars so no one else can benefit from the knowledge?

                            I am left with- someone posted a video, a horse was bought sight unseen...yada,yada,yada...scam. I’m assuming this was the standard “I’ve got this imaginary GP horse for sale at rock bottom prices so I can pay for Granny’s surgery..if you will just immediately wire me the funds I’ll put him on a trailer on the way to the hospital.”

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by aliashorsescam View Post
                              ....
                              BTW, pluvinel, have you seen the recent Facebook posts (if you are on FB) about xrays and vetting horses?
                              Link????

                              Do not confuse motion and progress. A rocking horse keeps moving but does not make any progress.
                              Alfred A. Montapert

                              Comment


                              • #16
                                Maybe this thread is the scam, who knows.

                                Comment


                                • #17
                                  Oh please, the thread isn't the scam, Scribbler. . You always are compelled to insert yourself into everything.

                                  Raincity, you nailed it, essentially.

                                  Here's the story less the earlier details. Person with not a ton of money saves up and doesn't use trainer to buy horse, sight unseen and comes with "vetting." Not cheap.

                                  Finds horse advertised as GP schoolmaster, horse in US then mysteriously has to go to Canada to save costs. Man selling because wife is sick. One month trial, money in escrow. Horse gets to border and buyer gets email that has to send more money for vet check as seller sent without immunization record. Owner agrees to split costs. Buyer sends more money. Horse never arrives. Shipper is in on the scam, and not only that but shipper is the escrow holder.

                                  Horse never arrives. She's out the money. The videos and photos sent and posted are stolen off of someone else's horse video and photos.

                                  Super sad story. But one with red flags, and buyer is naive and wanted to save a buck.

                                  Pluvinel, it's from EquiSale Sport Horses, on their facebook page from May 28 at 10:39 about buying the best x rays instead of the best horse, and all the steps one goes through when buying a horse. Basically, stop obsessing about x rays. I have no opinion either way, I don't buy enough horses to know better, and I've just been lucky, I guess .

                                  Comment


                                  • #18
                                    Manah - it was Rebecca Rigdon who was scammed in the hacking case. The advice at the end is super advice for anyone buying or selling.

                                    https://horseauthority.co/dressage-t...orting-horses/

                                    Comment


                                    • #19
                                      Originally posted by pluvinel View Post

                                      I have never vetted a horse. Then again, I buy young horses. Except for the first one. He was an advanced 3-day eventer that I bought from someone who didn't want to ship the horse back from Aiken. I rode him cross country once and wrote a check.

                                      If you have been on this BB any length of time, then you have read the story of the Hanoverian I bought. I saw it as a weanling. Bred in Germany. Imported in-utero with German pink papers.

                                      Fast forward 2 yrs. I hear the horse is for sale as the breeder has health issues and is doing herd dispersal. I wrote a check sight unseen, and I got the horse for a nominal price because it had an "iffy" hock X-yays of the Left hock.

                                      I showed the radiographs to a vet who said "Don't buy." Well that was about 3 months after I had taken possession of the horse.

                                      Fast forward 11 years, I want to sell Hanoverian horse to buy a Lusitano stallion. So with the history of the "bad" hock X-rays, I take the Hano to New Bolton to have bilateral hock X-rays. Well, it turns out the Right hock was "worse" than the Left. Horse had never taken a wrong/lame step. And because I had the radiographs from when he was 2 yr old, that showed no degenerative changes, he sold well. That horse took me to 3rd level.....and I would have missed out on him if I had listened to a vet who said "Don't buy."

                                      I have since bought other horses, including the Lusitano stallion who was 4 with 10 rides under saddle when I bought him....others were youngsters in the weanling to 2-yr old range with no horse vetting. If it moves well, has a pulse and isn't blind, it is a candidate if I like the animal. I figure at that young age, there is little chance of human interference creating problems, but there is a lot of future potential suicidal/self-destructive mischief by the horse.

                                      I DO vet sellers.....and cannot emphasize how important this is.
                                      Great. I would never advise clients to do this. Someone who is investing a significant amount of their life savings on the ride of a lifetime cannot afford to take a chance. My own vet asked me 'are you going to look at this horse go every day and think - is he a little off today and is this the start of something big? '.

                                      Here's my story. Tried a wonderful zedish level horse in the Netherlands. Had him vetted at the big clinic there. He passed. I brought my x-rays to my vet. He said no. My coach sent them to the team vet who wrote a 4 page dissertation on why I shouldn't buy this horse so I passed.
                                      8 months later, the horse was supposed to be a demo horse at a judges forum. He scratches due to lameness. Never shown again. At least the person who bought him had deep enough pockets that they could absorb the hit. It would have been the end of my upper level aspirations. I had one shot to buy the quality I needed and he had to be sound. Ymmv
                                      Last edited by dotneko; Jun. 7, 2019, 05:04 AM.
                                      www.settlementfarm.us

                                      Comment


                                      • #20
                                        Originally posted by dotneko View Post

                                        Great. I would never advise clients to do this. Someone who is investing a significant amount of their life savings on the ride of a lifetime cannot afford to take a chance. My own vet asked me 'are you going to look at this horse go every day and think - is he a little off today and is this the start of something big? '.

                                        Here's my story. Tried a wonderful zedish level horse in the Netherlands. Had him vetted at the big clinic there. He passed. I brought my x-rays to my vet. He said no. My coach sent them to the team vet who wrote a 4 page dissertation on why I shouldn't buy this horse so I passed.

                                        8 months later, the horse was supposed to be a demo horse at a judges forum. He scratches due to lameness. Never shown again. At least the person who bought him had deep enough pockets that they could absorb the hit. It would have been the end of my upper level aspirations. I had one shot to buy the quality I needed and he had to be sound. Ymmv
                                        We all have our own buying philosophies.....here is what I would say about your story.

                                        I guarantee that the horse you were looking at did not come up lame overnight. There was a history there that you were not told about.

                                        You didn't give details, but if this was an upper level horse, at that age and level of training, that horse probably had shown some signs of prior infirmities or weaknesses during training that were not disclosed to you.

                                        This is why it is so important to VET THE SELLER. They live with the horse, know its mental and physical quirks and limitations.

                                        There is no perfect horse, but getting young horses, you are not dealing with other people's training. And horses that are in a "training for resale" program are sometimes pushed beyond the horse's capabilities which can lead to mental and/or physical breakdown. I don't want to deal with that, so I buy young.

                                        I like training horses. I like to work with young horses. I have had European trainers say, "Have I got a horse for you." In one case it as a GP stallion that had a price "only for me." I passed....never went further than the conversation and a video of the horse.

                                        I like to start with the blank chalkboard that is a young horse. Some are more athletic and/or more intelligent than others....but in all cases, they provide me with lessons in horsemanship that advance my equestrian tact.
                                        Do not confuse motion and progress. A rocking horse keeps moving but does not make any progress.
                                        Alfred A. Montapert

                                        Comment

                                        Working...
                                        X