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UPDATE: help with sales dressage horse scam...

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  • UPDATE: help with sales dressage horse scam...

    Anyone heard of the following scam?

    More info to follow in comment below.
    Last edited by aliashorsescam; Jun. 6, 2019, 07:09 PM.
  • Original Poster

    #2
    confirmed scam.
    Last edited by aliashorsescam; Jun. 6, 2019, 08:53 PM.

    Comment


    • #3
      So someone bought a horse without laying actual eyes on it? Or having it vetted?
      www.settlementfarm.us

      Comment


      • #4
        Yep sounds like a scam. That said, this video - whoever it is - is a nice horse, but certainly not GP. No tempis, no pirouettes, no baby piaffe or passage...Wow that would suck to have your video used in some scam ad...

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by dotneko View Post
          So someone bought a horse without laying actual eyes on it? Or having it vetted?
          I have done exactly that.

          I rode a friend's horse and loved him (long term ride while she convalesced). Based on my experience with that horse, I talked to the breeder, asked if she had any more by the stallion. She said yes, and based off a 39 second video I had the horse shipped across the US never having laid eyes on the animal I had just bought.

          No vetting the horse. I vetted the seller. Horse is working out ok.
          Do not confuse motion and progress. A rocking horse keeps moving but does not make any progress.
          Alfred A. Montapert

          Comment


          • #6
            That horse has a facebook page with no information on it.

            Maybe someone recognizes the language in the background of one of the videos or the logo on the saddle pad. This video is not on youtube.

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by pluvinel View Post

              I have done exactly that.

              I rode a friend's horse and loved him (long term ride while she convalesced). Based on my experience with that horse, I talked to the breeder, asked if she had any more by the stallion. She said yes, and based off a 39 second video I had the horse shipped across the US never having laid eyes on the animal I had just bought.

              No vetting the horse. I vetted the seller. Horse is working out ok.
              Wow. Never in a million years would I do that. Ive had clients vet lots of horses who did not pass. Not to mention that just because a horse is by the same stallion it wont necessarily be anything like what you rode. But good luck.
              www.settlementfarm.us

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by dotneko View Post

                Wow. Never in a million years would I do that. Ive had clients vet lots of horses who did not pass. Not to mention that just because a horse is by the same stallion it wont necessarily be anything like what you rode. But good luck.
                I don't necessarily like or agree with everything Pluvinel posts but my experience here on COTH tells me her/his horsemanship is pretty much without question and I'm not at all surprised that the horse turned out OK.
                Rack on!

                Comment


                • #9
                  I strung a scam along for awhile years ago but could never figure out the angle. They stole a video, made a online listing, wouldn't let me come see the horse but were going to allow me to take the horse on trial for a month.

                  They never asked for any money, but I never got to the point of arranging for delivery, either. Maybe that was the point they would've tried to extract money from me.

                  Comment


                  • #10

                    You need to contact your bank and the FBI (yes, fbi) immediately. They have a cyber crime division that may be able to assist with the investigation and determine the location of your scammer by looking into the data that is sent within your communications with them.

                    The sad truth is that your scammer likely lives in an eastern block or african country where there will be little recourse for their actions.

                    If by some divine intervention your scammer Is actually physically located in the US or Canada, you may get lucky. This situation is highly unlikely though.

                    i am very sorry.

                    These scams are prolific and unfortunately rarely prosecuted. Old school hacking into data to commit financial crimes is dying out, and good old fashioned social engineering is on the rise. This isn't the first time I've heard of this happening in the horse world. A few years back.a hacker took over the credentials of a reputable seller and rerouted the funds for a high dollar sale into an unrecoverable account. I may have read about it here but i am not certain on that.

                    Comment

                    • Original Poster

                      #11
                      confirmed scam; thanks for the help.
                      Last edited by aliashorsescam; Jun. 6, 2019, 08:54 PM.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by dotneko View Post

                        Wow. Never in a million years would I do that. Ive had clients vet lots of horses who did not pass. Not to mention that just because a horse is by the same stallion it wont necessarily be anything like what you rode. But good luck.
                        I have never vetted a horse. Then again, I buy young horses. Except for the first one. He was an advanced 3-day eventer that I bought from someone who didn't want to ship the horse back from Aiken. I rode him cross country once and wrote a check.

                        If you have been on this BB any length of time, then you have read the story of the Hanoverian I bought. I saw it as a weanling. Bred in Germany. Imported in-utero with German pink papers.

                        Fast forward 2 yrs. I hear the horse is for sale as the breeder has health issues and is doing herd dispersal. I wrote a check sight unseen, and I got the horse for a nominal price because it had an "iffy" hock X-yays of the Left hock.

                        I showed the radiographs to a vet who said "Don't buy." Well that was about 3 months after I had taken possession of the horse.

                        Fast forward 11 years, I want to sell Hanoverian horse to buy a Lusitano stallion. So with the history of the "bad" hock X-rays, I take the Hano to New Bolton to have bilateral hock X-rays. Well, it turns out the Right hock was "worse" than the Left. Horse had never taken a wrong/lame step. And because I had the radiographs from when he was 2 yr old, that showed no degenerative changes, he sold well. That horse took me to 3rd level.....and I would have missed out on him if I had listened to a vet who said "Don't buy."

                        I have since bought other horses, including the Lusitano stallion who was 4 with 10 rides under saddle when I bought him....others were youngsters in the weanling to 2-yr old range with no horse vetting. If it moves well, has a pulse and isn't blind, it is a candidate if I like the animal. I figure at that young age, there is little chance of human interference creating problems, but there is a lot of future potential suicidal/self-destructive mischief by the horse.

                        I DO vet sellers.....and cannot emphasize how important this is.
                        Do not confuse motion and progress. A rocking horse keeps moving but does not make any progress.
                        Alfred A. Montapert

                        Comment

                        • Original Poster

                          #13
                          Agreed. I wish she had reached out before she purchased; many of us would have steered her away. Super sad.

                          BTW, pluvinel, have you seen the recent Facebook posts (if you are on FB) about xrays and vetting horses?

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            So why would you confirm it was a scam but redact all the particulars so no one else can benefit from the knowledge?

                            I am left with- someone posted a video, a horse was bought sight unseen...yada,yada,yada...scam. I’m assuming this was the standard “I’ve got this imaginary GP horse for sale at rock bottom prices so I can pay for Granny’s surgery..if you will just immediately wire me the funds I’ll put him on a trailer on the way to the hospital.”

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by aliashorsescam View Post
                              ....
                              BTW, pluvinel, have you seen the recent Facebook posts (if you are on FB) about xrays and vetting horses?
                              Link????

                              Do not confuse motion and progress. A rocking horse keeps moving but does not make any progress.
                              Alfred A. Montapert

                              Comment


                              • #16
                                ?

                                Comment


                                • #17
                                  Maybe this thread is the scam, who knows.

                                  Comment

                                  • Original Poster

                                    #18
                                    Oh please, the thread isn't the scam, Scribbler. . You always are compelled to insert yourself into everything.

                                    Raincity, you nailed it, essentially.

                                    Here's the story less the earlier details. Person with not a ton of money saves up and doesn't use trainer to buy horse, sight unseen and comes with "vetting." Not cheap.

                                    Finds horse advertised as GP schoolmaster, horse in US then mysteriously has to go to Canada to save costs. Man selling because wife is sick. One month trial, money in escrow. Horse gets to border and buyer gets email that has to send more money for vet check as seller sent without immunization record. Owner agrees to split costs. Buyer sends more money. Horse never arrives. Shipper is in on the scam, and not only that but shipper is the escrow holder.

                                    Horse never arrives. She's out the money. The videos and photos sent and posted are stolen off of someone else's horse video and photos.

                                    Super sad story. But one with red flags, and buyer is naive and wanted to save a buck.

                                    Pluvinel, it's from EquiSale Sport Horses, on their facebook page from May 28 at 10:39 about buying the best x rays instead of the best horse, and all the steps one goes through when buying a horse. Basically, stop obsessing about x rays. I have no opinion either way, I don't buy enough horses to know better, and I've just been lucky, I guess .

                                    Comment

                                    • Original Poster

                                      #19
                                      Manah - it was Rebecca Rigdon who was scammed in the hacking case. The advice at the end is super advice for anyone buying or selling.

                                      https://horseauthority.co/dressage-t...orting-horses/

                                      Comment


                                      • #20
                                        Originally posted by pluvinel View Post

                                        I have never vetted a horse. Then again, I buy young horses. Except for the first one. He was an advanced 3-day eventer that I bought from someone who didn't want to ship the horse back from Aiken. I rode him cross country once and wrote a check.

                                        If you have been on this BB any length of time, then you have read the story of the Hanoverian I bought. I saw it as a weanling. Bred in Germany. Imported in-utero with German pink papers.

                                        Fast forward 2 yrs. I hear the horse is for sale as the breeder has health issues and is doing herd dispersal. I wrote a check sight unseen, and I got the horse for a nominal price because it had an "iffy" hock X-yays of the Left hock.

                                        I showed the radiographs to a vet who said "Don't buy." Well that was about 3 months after I had taken possession of the horse.

                                        Fast forward 11 years, I want to sell Hanoverian horse to buy a Lusitano stallion. So with the history of the "bad" hock X-rays, I take the Hano to New Bolton to have bilateral hock X-rays. Well, it turns out the Right hock was "worse" than the Left. Horse had never taken a wrong/lame step. And because I had the radiographs from when he was 2 yr old, that showed no degenerative changes, he sold well. That horse took me to 3rd level.....and I would have missed out on him if I had listened to a vet who said "Don't buy."

                                        I have since bought other horses, including the Lusitano stallion who was 4 with 10 rides under saddle when I bought him....others were youngsters in the weanling to 2-yr old range with no horse vetting. If it moves well, has a pulse and isn't blind, it is a candidate if I like the animal. I figure at that young age, there is little chance of human interference creating problems, but there is a lot of future potential suicidal/self-destructive mischief by the horse.

                                        I DO vet sellers.....and cannot emphasize how important this is.
                                        Great. I would never advise clients to do this. Someone who is investing a significant amount of their life savings on the ride of a lifetime cannot afford to take a chance. My own vet asked me 'are you going to look at this horse go every day and think - is he a little off today and is this the start of something big? '.

                                        Here's my story. Tried a wonderful zedish level horse in the Netherlands. Had him vetted at the big clinic there. He passed. I brought my x-rays to my vet. He said no. My coach sent them to the team vet who wrote a 4 page dissertation on why I shouldn't buy this horse so I passed.
                                        8 months later, the horse was supposed to be a demo horse at a judges forum. He scratches due to lameness. Never shown again. At least the person who bought him had deep enough pockets that they could absorb the hit. It would have been the end of my upper level aspirations. I had one shot to buy the quality I needed and he had to be sound. Ymmv
                                        Last edited by dotneko; Jun. 7, 2019, 05:04 AM.
                                        www.settlementfarm.us

                                        Comment

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