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Need help with Stubben double offset stirrups

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  • Need help with Stubben double offset stirrups

    Do I have these installed correctly?


  • #2
    Nope, don’t think you do...

    Comment


    • #3
      From an earlier COTH post from IdeaYoda:

      "There are two kinds of offset...and offset eye (shorter branch on outside than inside) which is meant to tilt the ankle inward. This is for jumping. And there is an offset tread which is meant to allow the ankle to sink down more, again meant for jumping/two point. Both help allow the foot to stay on the inside of the tread. (And the question is why a rider on the flat would like want either.)

      There is also an offset eye which allows the leather to be flat and the iron to be at a right angle to the leather. Therefore it hangs in an easier place to keep the foot straight on the outside of the tread w/o the leather wrapping around the shin."

      Comment


      • #4
        No. For dressage, the slot for the stirrup leather should be on the side next to the horse. This helps the pelvis/upper leg to open and therefore allows the leg to slide back directly under the rider's body. For jumping, the slot should be on the stirrup arm away from the horse's side. This helps the knee to tighten against the saddle. If your irons are marked with an R and L, it's likely that is for the jumping configuration.

        I've used the Stubben single offsets for 15 years, after an extensive product survey on stirrups for "The Horse Journal." I have a very long thigh -- the single offsets were the only stirrups that helped keep my thigh from jamming into the knee roll -- not MDCs, not Sprengers, not Royal Riders, etc. I got to test-ride them all. Having said that, other riders who've used my saddle have, alternately: loved them, hated them, didn't care one way or the other. I would certainly consider them if you're like me, with a long thigh.

        A word of caution -- you have the double offsets, which are readily available to order online from several sites. I love the offset top, but the offset bottom could have the effect of making your ankle rigid. You really don't want to jam your ankle down in a fixed position. The single offsets I have, as far as I know, are only available by ordering directly from Stubben online. The double offsets can also be less-than-fun while you figure out how to hang them on your leathers -- the pad has to tilt back and the slot has to be next to the horse.

        Comment


        • #5
          Your stirrups are on correctly--for JUMPING. Sergei Kournakoff developed the double offset stirrups to help Forward Seat riders 1) break correctly at the ankle for jumping (the inside of the rider's foot lower than the outside) and 2) keep their heels down.

          You have put them on your saddle just like I, a Forward Seat rider, put mine on my saddle. These stirrups greatly increase the stability and security of my lower leg, get the proper part of my leg against the saddle for frictional grip (knees & upper calf), and they make it really hard for me to ride with my heels up.

          Well actually I could not use the Stubben Fillis double offset stirrups because my feet were in agony. When I found some of the old-fashioned Prussian sided double offset stirrups I was SO HAPPY, and the agonizing foot pain stopped immediately.

          Since my ankles are a little wonky I find the side-to-side slope of the double offset stirrups too much for the security of my lower leg. I simply used one of my Micklem bit clips, with the stirrups hanging down from the saddle I put the clip on the eye of the stirrup IN FRONT of the stirrup leather. I also added the super-comfort stirrup pads. Now I have no pain at all in my feet, ankle or lower leg and I feel so much more secure than I do in regular stirrup irons.

          I love, love, love my Prussian sided double offset stirrups. My riding teacher now yells a lot less at me about my lower leg since I started using them.

          Comment

          • Original Poster

            #6
            Thanks for your replies. I bought these on the advice of my instructor to help me get a better leg position. My right leg is wonky, and I have a lot of trouble picking up that stirrup. The right leather always feels twisted on my shin no matter what I do. Maybe just an offset eye would be better?

            Comment


            • #7
              The longer branch should be toward the front of the saddle when the stirrup leather is hanging straight down. When you put your foot in, the longer branch is on the outside of your foot. I've never heard of turning them the other way.
              The offset slightly rolls your ankle, which compensates for our knees not bending sideways and allows your leg to wrap around the horses barrel. It also allows your toe to face forward and not out away from your horse. Because of this, offset irons are not allowed in USEF equitation. I'm not sure about dressage equitation classes.

              A similar effect can be achieved by placing your stirrup under your foot from your little toe to the back of the ball of your foot. When you step down into a stirrup like this the angle of it will roll your ankle slightly the same way as an offset, and the angle of the stirrup on your foot will make your foot look more parallel to your horse even if your toe is sticking out a bit.

              What made you want to get offset irons?

              Comment

              • Original Poster

                #8
                I am new to dressage, previously rode Western. This saddle is brand new and I’m getting used to riding in it. My horse is very round—that’s a 36 cm hoop tree— and I have a freakishly long femur, so it’s a 19” seat. I practice yoga to help hips/thighs/back/core.

                My instructor told me to think of weighting the pinky toe side of my foot in a standard stirrup to help bring my leg into the right place. She thought the double offsets, hung backwards from the jumping placement, would help me gain a better leg position. I have also been grabbing the pommel, scooting myself deeper and then pulling my inner thighs backwards to help flatten them. I take lunge line lessons with and without stirrups, at the walk and sitting trot. My horse is a very sweet saint of a mare and she gets much love and many horse cookies for tolerating my flailing.

                The blocks on the saddle are Velcro, so I can move those, too.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by Margaret Freeman View Post
                  No. For dressage, the slot for the stirrup leather should be on the side next to the horse. This helps the pelvis/upper leg to open and therefore allows the leg to slide back directly under the rider's body. For jumping, the slot should be on the stirrup arm away from the horse's side. This helps the knee to tighten against the saddle. If your irons are marked with an R and L, it's likely that is for the jumping configuration.

                  I've used the Stubben single offsets for 15 years, after an extensive product survey on stirrups for "The Horse Journal." I have a very long thigh -- the single offsets were the only stirrups that helped keep my thigh from jamming into the knee roll -- not MDCs, not Sprengers, not Royal Riders, etc. I got to test-ride them all. Having said that, other riders who've used my saddle have, alternately: loved them, hated them, didn't care one way or the other. I would certainly consider them if you're like me, with a long thigh.

                  A word of caution -- you have the double offsets, which are readily available to order online from several sites. I love the offset top, but the offset bottom could have the effect of making your ankle rigid. You really don't want to jam your ankle down in a fixed position. The single offsets I have, as far as I know, are only available by ordering directly from Stubben online. The double offsets can also be less-than-fun while you figure out how to hang them on your leathers -- the pad has to tilt back and the slot has to be next to the horse.
                  These appear to be the single offset version. Based on your description it sounds like these might be worth a try for me - I have the same issue with my knee popping into the roll.

                  https://marystack.com/stubben-offset-fillis-iron/
                  "So relax! Let's have some fun out here! This game's fun, OK? Fun goddamnit." Crash Davis; Bull Durham

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Yes, those are the ones I have. An additional thought: Place your small toe next to the outside of the harp to get the maximum effect. If you have a copy of Betsy Steiner's "Mind, Body & Spirit," those are the same stirrups as on the cover photo. That photo is what drew me to them in the first place.

                    Comment

                    • Original Poster

                      #11
                      Miss Ariel, I’m home now and checked the box—they are double offset.

                      Margaret Freeman, how do I get them hung right? I’ve switched them around so many times, ugh! I was tickled just to get them hanging the same direction!

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Mine (15 years ago) came with instructions, but they were clearly for the jumping position. If yours are marked with an R and L, ignore that. Place them on the floor on either side of you. The slot should go on the outside. Since they are double offset, when they are on the floor they should tilt forward (on the saddle they will tilt back). However, these just may not work for you -- I am really not in favor of an offset foot pad because it locks the ankle. Maybe that is the problem. Also, people who have tried my single offsets don't always like them. I think it comes down to a combination of flap/kneeroll construction and the stirrups themselves, if you're not using straightforward Fillis stirrups. People with a long thigh really struggle with this.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by katiehorse View Post
                          My instructor told me to think of weighting the pinky toe side of my foot in a standard stirrup to help bring my leg into the right place.
                          Maybe your trainer is telling you specifically this because you are too light in your stirrups, but technically and generally speaking, this is wrong.

                          You want the ball of your feet to lay as flat as possible.
                          The weight should be well distributed across it and mostly into your knees and heels.
                          You can have some degree of toe opening, but mostly you want them as straight as possible.

                          If your weight is not even (more on big toes or on pinkies) you will get sore/numb toes and ankle/knee soreness because you won’t be properly aligned from hips to toes and your legs won’t absorb the motion/chocs like they are supposed to.
                          (For those of you that have weak/loose wobbly ankles, putting more weight on the big toe can help stabilize
                          ~ Enjoying some guac and boxed wine at the Blue Saddle inn. ~

                          Originally posted by LauraKY
                          I'm sorry, but this has "eau de hoarder" smell all over it.
                          HORSING mobile training app

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Yes, those single offsets from Mary's are the right kind! I use single offsets (from Herm Sprenger -- my coach bought them when he was in Germany) and they have made a world of difference for my riding. For my conformation, they are the solution!

                            Don't cause yurself brain damage trying to make double offsets work -- just buy the singles from Mary's. Hang them on the saddle so that when your foot is in the stirrup the longer branch of the stirrup is on the outside.

                            Comment

                            • Original Poster

                              #15
                              Alibi, I think you’re right, my foot should be flat. I’ve got enough trouble with arthritis and there’s no need to add even more concussion to the old joints.

                              Margeret, thank you! I’ll give it another try but if I feel my ankles locking, I’ll swap those out for a pair of peacocks or try Three Figs’ suggestion.

                              Comment


                              • #16
                                Katiehorse, you didn't mention before that part of your issue was arthritis, just that your leg was "wonky." Geepers, talk about wonky legs, I can't pick up my stirrups either, but once I've got them I'm fine, and I never lose them despite foot pads that no long have tread -- and thus are a source of teasing in my barn. Going back to that product survey that I did on high-tech stirrups, your answer might be a hinged stirrup. "The Horse Journal" found that they were a godsend to riders with a variety of ankle, knee and even hip/back issues. The reason, we felt, is that they facilitate a flexible ankle, which thus absorbs the shock of the horse's stride and relieves that shock from other parts of the body. A caveat though: "Bargain" hinged stirrups didn't seem to get the job done, possibly because they had too much give. The Sprengers and MDCs, for example, really helped these riders. If those seem a tad rich for your budget, I'd suggest borrowing a set to verify that they would make a difference, and my own local tack store would loan a set for trial. For me, the Sprengers were a significant improvement from a plain Fillis, until I found the Stubben single offset, and that final change was specific to my issue of having a long thigh.

                                Comment


                                • #17
                                  Originally posted by katiehorse View Post
                                  Alibi, I think you’re right, my foot should be flat. I’ve got enough trouble with arthritis and there’s no need to add even more concussion to the old joints.
                                  It’s actually more strain for the tendons, ligaments and muscles.

                                  Putting weight on the outside break your ankles and opens your hips in the wrong way. It actually counter act the stretching backward you are doing with your legs.

                                  Anyway, what you should try are wide footbed stirrups to begin with.

                                  Then see if the offset, hinged or other specialty stirrups could help.

                                  I know I despise any hinged stirrups as I overflex at the ankle (toes touching tibia kinda...) and my toes get numbed with fillies.
                                  ~ Enjoying some guac and boxed wine at the Blue Saddle inn. ~

                                  Originally posted by LauraKY
                                  I'm sorry, but this has "eau de hoarder" smell all over it.
                                  HORSING mobile training app

                                  Comment

                                  • Original Poster

                                    #18
                                    Margaret, I think you're on to something here. I'm willing to spend the money on a good pair of stirrups--after basically having to triple my saddle budget to get something that fit mare and me, there's no sense to squeezing the wallet shut now! LOL The arthritis is in my feet, knees, and hands. Nothing in the hips yet *knock wood*

                                    Alibi, it didn't feel right to my leg and I need to work on getting my thigh under me not out and away, and certainly not breaking over at the ankles. I think she was trying to get me to drape my legs around my horse's barrel better which in time should get easier but I'd rather take my time getting there and doing it right than adding another injury to my list.

                                    My problem started with a western saddle that put me in a bad position. The twist was too narrow and had too steep of a rise which left me pitched forward and feet way back. To counter-act that, I'd get upright, then clamp down with my right thigh to stay in place. Now that I have a saddle that fits, all these problems are showing up and that's why I'm back on the lunge line.

                                    Are the single offset and wide foot beds show-legal? I don't have any showing goals just yet, but I'd rather learn on equipment that's allowed.

                                    Comment


                                    • #19
                                      Are the single offset and wide foot beds show-legal?

                                      Yes

                                      Comment

                                      • Original Poster

                                        #20
                                        Thank you! Is there any difference between the Stubben single offsets and those with the eye are rotated, like these?

                                        https://www.doversaddlery.com/herm-s...ons/p/X1-0708/

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