Stallion Spotlight

Total Hope-11-18-09-3662

Real Estate Spotlight

CR groom space
  • Welcome to the Chronicle Forums.
    Please complete your profile. The forums and the rest of www.chronofhorse.com has single sign-in, so your log in information for one will automatically work for the other. Disclaimer: The opinions expressed here are the views of the individual and do not necessarily reflect the views and opinions of The Chronicle of the Horse.

Announcement

Collapse

Forum rules and no-advertising policy

As a participant on this forum, it is your responsibility to know and follow our rules. Please read this message in its entirety.

Board Rules

2. Conversations in horse-related forums should be horse-related.3. Keep conversations productive, on topic and civil.
Discussion and disagreement are inevitable and encouraged; personal insults, diatribes and sniping comments are unproductive and unacceptable. Whether a subject is light-hearted or serious, keep posts focused on the current topic and of general interest to other participants of that thread. Utilize the private message feature or personal email where appropriate to address side topics or personal issues not related to the topic at large.

4. No advertising in the discussion forums.classifieds site and through the purchase of banner ads. The tightly monitored Giveaways forum permits free listings of genuinely free horses and items available or wanted (on a limited basis). Items offered for trade are not allowed.

Advertising Policy Specifics
When in doubt of whether something you want to post constitutes advertising, please contact a moderator privately in advance for further clarification. Refer to the following points for general guidelines:

Board members may ask for suggestions on breeding stallion recommendations. Stallion owners may reply to such queries by suggesting their own stallions, only if their horse fits the specific criteria of the original poster. Excessive promotion of a stallion by its owner or related parties is not permitted and will be addressed at the discretion of the moderators.

Members may use the forums to ask for general recommendations of trainers, barns, shippers, farriers, etc., and other members may answer those requests by suggesting themselves or their company, if their services fulfill the specific criteria of the original post. Members may not solicit other members for business if it is not in response to a direct, genuine query.

While members may ask for general opinions and suggestions on equipment, trailers, trucks, etc., they may not list the specific attributes for which they are in the market, as such posts serve as wanted ads.

5. Do not post copyrighted photographs unless you have purchased that photo and have permission to do so.

6. Respect other members.7. We have the right to reproduce statements made in the forums.
The Chronicle of the Horse may copy, quote, link to or otherwise reproduce posts, or portions of posts, in print or online for advertising or editorial purposes, if attributed to their original authors, and by posting in this forum, you hereby grant to The Chronicle of the Horse a perpetual, non-exclusive license under copyright and other rights, to do so.

8. We reserve the right to enforce and amend the rules.Terms of Service and Privacy Policy for more information.

Thanks for being a part of the COTH forums!

(Revised 5/9/18)
See more
See less

Gold Medal: Do you care how your trainer got it?

Collapse
X
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • #41
    Originally posted by AnotherRound View Post
    I would ask my peers who they train with and what they like about their trainer. I might ask folks at shows who I like and admire their riding, who they are training with, and what they particularly like about their trainer, where he/she is based, etc.
    This is fine for generally getting recommendations for who people like and why when looking for general compatibility, but doesn't necessarily answer the question of who can bring students UP levels, because who someone works with *now* may not be who got them there. (And what if all your peers are stuck at 1st too?)

    There are a lot of 4th+ level riders on this forum - I think it'd be really interesting to find out how many people have worked with the same trainer the whole time, how many have switched a few times, but generally have stuck with one regular instructor for many years at a time, and how many have essentially gone into a clinic-only model after plateauing around 2nd level. And if there's a difference between people who are DIYing the training of their horse vs. keeping their horse in a partial or full training program.

    Comment


    • #42
      Originally posted by strangewings View Post
      Where do you get the information of what students a trainer has brought up the levels themselves? I can probably name 2 people in my state for whom this kind of record is just "known", but they are, like, nationally known folks.

      I don't think it's always obvious who rides with which trainers when you're observing a local show. Is there any good way other than word of mouth?

      Asking because I'm going to be looking for a new instructor in the near future and would feel like a real heel having the following phone conversation: "Hi, my name is strangewings and I'm interested in potentially having lessons with you. Can you tell me how many students you've brought up the levels? None above 3rd? Thanks, that's all I need to know *click*". Conversely, if I were a student, I wouldn't necessarily be comfortable with my instructor posting about me on their facebook page or website, and I can't imagine I'm the only one. So I'm not sure internet lurking works either...

      Here in Canada we have the option of the wonderful search features of the Equine Canada show results database, and I understand the equivalent exists for the USEF.

      You can start with a recent big show, see who is competing at what levels, find the trainer for a rider, find all the riders for that trainer, find the trainers lifetime show record, find the lifetime show record of any rider you want, and also search same by horse name.

      So you can see if a given horse progressed year over year with a given trainer, owner, and/or rider, changed hands, etc. And you can see if a rider stayed with the same trainer or moved. Etc.

      And you can see scores.

      It's perhaps a little simpler because we have a fairly small pool of trainers and not a lot of riders above 2nd level.

      So if verified competition results is what you want in a trainer, its pretty easy to use this search function to get a picture.

      You just scroll through the class lists of everyone showing at a given level, see who their trainers are, and then research the trainers to see who their other students are.

      Comment


      • #43
        Originally posted by Trotpastme View Post
        Yes I care. To get to the highest levels, my trainer should have experience in getting there, not just “how to” ride a movement. I see trainers renting schoolmasters to get these medals and then they think they can teach at those levels. I took a lesson (waste of money) with Burgees at Saddlebrook in New Jersey because she has medals. She didn’t help me nor knew her butt from her elbow! She was lost and I felt taken. Later I found out she rented a school master from her trainer. So from my experience, they should absolutely get those medals legitimately, and bring their own horse up the levels.
        Golly, what a weird coincidence ...

        Comment


        • #44
          Whoda thunk?
          Airborne? Oh. Yes, he can take a joke. Once. After that, the joke's on you.

          Comment


          • #45
            Originally posted by LiberalSnowflake View Post

            Golly, what a weird coincidence ...
            Thank you for finding that, I had started to wonder, he doesn't change his writing style or his grudges much.
            How dare he post such garbage about a professional he doesn't even really know?
            Yo/Yousolong April 23rd, 1985- April 15th, 2014

            http://notesfromadogwalker.com/2012/...m-a-sanctuary/

            Comment


            • #46
              And lie about having taken a lesson with her. Hasn't even ever talked to her.
              Airborne? Oh. Yes, he can take a joke. Once. After that, the joke's on you.

              Comment


              • #47
                Originally posted by AnotherRound View Post
                And lie about having taken a lesson with her. Hasn't even ever talked to her.
                Notice he wrote A lesson.
                One.

                From what I understand the depth of his education has been one lesson here/there, a long time ago in a galaxy far far away, and sitting next to BNTs at the warm up ring at Devon [not even sitting near them at the warm up ring at lots of shows, but just one]
                *piffle*
                Last edited by Angela Freda; May. 28, 2019, 05:23 AM. Reason: Typo
                Yo/Yousolong April 23rd, 1985- April 15th, 2014

                http://notesfromadogwalker.com/2012/...m-a-sanctuary/

                Comment


                • #48
                  Originally posted by Angela Freda View Post

                  Thank you for finding that, I had started to wonder, he doesn't change his writing style or his grudges much.
                  How dare he post such garbage about a professional he doesn't even really know?
                  I'm guessing he's never even met the woman. She probably disagreed with him on a forum somewhere and he went and found her online and is trying to ruin her business. He's so utterly transparent.

                  Comment


                  • #49
                    Originally posted by LiberalSnowflake View Post

                    I'm guessing he's never even met the woman. She probably disagreed with him on a forum somewhere and he went and found her online and is trying to ruin her business. He's so utterly transparent.
                    Will someone PLEASE put him on a schoolmaster... so he can get a clue about what it's like to drive an Indy car, when you've only ever pedaled a tricycle.
                    Yo/Yousolong April 23rd, 1985- April 15th, 2014

                    http://notesfromadogwalker.com/2012/...m-a-sanctuary/

                    Comment


                    • #50
                      Scribbler, it has been a while since I showed, so I could be very out of date here, but I'm not sure how the USEF/USDF would have that information, other than the "Trainer" line on the entry sheet. "Trainer" in that case only means the person responsible for the horse when it is on the show grounds - in the hunter show model, this would yield the info you're suggesting, but I'd expect most dressage people who are riding their own horse to put themselves down, especially if they don't have their horse in part/full training with any pro. That's what I've always done, though I can't say I ever went to any major (e.g. regional) show. So I'm not sure how meaningful those records are in this context. Would love someone who knows for sure to clarify. It also seems I can't access those records as a non-member (could pay per report from USDF).

                      Comment


                      • #51
                        that is correct. In the US the only way to know for sure who trains whom is to go to the shows and watch the warm up and see who greets the rider when they come out of the ring. The "trainer" section of the entry form probably lists the owner as they are probably the one cleaning the stall and feeding the horse. The new "coach" section of the form might be helpful if in fact the federation is collecting that info.
                        _\\]
                        -- * > hoopoe
                        Procrastinate NOW
                        Introverted Since 1957

                        Comment


                        • #52
                          Originally posted by strangewings View Post
                          Where do you get the information of what students a trainer has brought up the levels themselves? I can probably name 2 people in my state for whom this kind of record is just "known", but they are, like, nationally known folks.

                          I don't think it's always obvious who rides with which trainers when you're observing a local show. Is there any good way other than word of mouth?

                          Asking because I'm going to be looking for a new instructor in the near future and would feel like a real heel having the following phone conversation: "Hi, my name is strangewings and I'm interested in potentially having lessons with you. Can you tell me how many students you've brought up the levels? None above 3rd? Thanks, that's all I need to know *click*". Conversely, if I were a student, I wouldn't necessarily be comfortable with my instructor posting about me on their facebook page or website, and I can't imagine I'm the only one. So I'm not sure internet lurking works either...

                          I would ask a trainer to provide a couple of names / references of current and former successful students.

                          Comment


                          • #53
                            When I go to shows, barns often are stabled together. I get a good idea of who is in what program that way. Also watching the warm up rings I can see some of the trainers teaching styles.

                            Our shows are small enough you get to know who the trainers are. Also looking at who is an "open" rider sometimes gives a clue. I watched my current trainer at a show and loved her sympathetic riding style. A couple years later I am training with her now. I wouldn't have known about her unless I had seen her go at the show as her barn was relatively new at the time.

                            Comment


                            • #54
                              Originally posted by strangewings View Post

                              This is fine for generally getting recommendations for who people like and why when looking for general compatibility, but doesn't necessarily answer the question of who can bring students UP levels, because who someone works with *now* may not be who got them there. (And what if all your peers are stuck at 1st too?)

                              There are a lot of 4th+ level riders on this forum - I think it'd be really interesting to find out how many people have worked with the same trainer the whole time, how many have switched a few times, but generally have stuck with one regular instructor for many years at a time, and how many have essentially gone into a clinic-only model after plateauing around 2nd level. And if there's a difference between people who are DIYing the training of their horse vs. keeping their horse in a partial or full training program.
                              For myself I've only really had 3 trainers that have made up most of my knowledge. I usually stay in someones program for years. For my childhood trainer it must have been around 7-9 years, then more recently 2.5 years and almost 3 years. There have been two others in there, but realistically I don't think they made big changes in me as a rider. I rode in pony club, intermittently as a young girl (read not much at all), lots as a teen, some as a university student and new grad, then a good 6 years off in my 20's. Since my 30's I'm back at it full time.

                              Historically I've always taken weekly lessons, but now that we are trying for PSG, I've bumped it up to twice a week when I can (averages around 4-6 lessons a month). I've trained all my horses from well broke on. I've taken one to 3rd (juniors), one to 2nd/training 3rd, and one to 4th (current horse). Have always done very well at shows, so I hope I've been relatively correct in my training. But I need help at this point, I just don't have the experience but I know some theory.

                              I clinic maybe only 1-2 a year. What I find most helpful is if my trainer takes the clinic or at a minimum watches her students in the clinic. I get a lot of the clinic material trickled down to me this way.

                              I read a lot and watch shows, audit the occasional clinic, and I always watch other's lessons when I could. When I was a teen and young adult I watched sooooo many lessons. Really helpful, even if they are at a level below you. I'd clean my tack and just hang out and learn. Wouldn't have traded those years for anything, I learned a ton that way, and it was free.

                              Comment


                              • #55
                                Watching other students ride for your coach is very very helpful.

                                I guess the USEF show results listings are different from EC. From when I've googled around EC, everyone who has a coach seems to put the coach down as trainer. And every ammie who is scoring above 60 has a coach. The horse owner also has a line.

                                Following a COTH discussion last year about trainers bringing along their own horses, I checked out a trainer I knew who had a Grand Prix ride prominent on her webpage.

                                It was pretty easy to figure out that the horse appeared in Canada at the age of 15, was owned by trainer's student, and then ridden in one or two Grand Prix competitions the next year by the trainer, then at 17 or 18 was being ridden at lower levels by the student owner. I deduced deep pocketed student imported school master, most likely from the US, and let trainer get her Grand Prix credentials on him.

                                Otherwise it was easy to track the horses the trainer had brought along, usually going from First to fourth, which is nothing to sneeze at. But no other FEI rides other than that one GP summer.

                                Anyhow, in the absence of a really good search function, it's helpful to know your local scene. To do that, its useful to have people to gossip with, who know a bit about that scene, like other trainers. You can take what they say with a grain of salt, but it's very useful to get a general picture of the local scene!

                                That said, you might also get some really useful problem solving instruction from coaches that have dropped out of showing, and harder to find.

                                Comment


                                • #56
                                  Wow, reading this thread, I guess I have the perfect trainer and I didn’t even look for her.... I was relatively new in the area and was talking to my farrier. suddenly he said, well I might have the perfect trainer for you if she takes you 😀.... Then he gave me a name, I never heard before and her phone number and he told me that he wanted to know whether she accepted me as a student or not....😀

                                  Ok so I googled her first. she did have her medals ( I later learned that she got her Bronze and Silver on a QH she brought up herself) and had a training grant to train in Germany some years ago. also she lived only 20 min away.... I still never heard her name before. obviously her clients did not belong to the crowd I usually hang out with...
                                  My next step was to call her. she was very friendly and I invited her to come to a clinic I was riding in. she came with a couple of friends and afterwards invited me to come to her place and watch her riding and give a lesson.

                                  That was 5 years ago... Since then I have been taking lessons with her. she brought me from 1st level to 4th level ( without riding my horses) and is the nicest person in the world. all her students are at least riding 3rd level and up. most ride PSG.

                                  And of course I told my farrier that she did accept me 😄

                                  https://www.facebook.com/Luckyacresfarm
                                  https://www.facebook.com/Ulrike-Bsch...4373849955364/

                                  Comment


                                  • #57
                                    Originally posted by Manni01 View Post
                                    Wow, reading this thread, I guess I have the perfect trainer and I didn’t even look for her.... I was relatively new in the area and was talking to my farrier. suddenly he said, well I might have the perfect trainer for you if she takes you 😀.... Then he gave me a name, I never heard before and her phone number and he told me that he wanted to know whether she accepted me as a student or not....😀

                                    Ok so I googled her first. she did have her medals ( I later learned that she got her Bronze and Silver on a QH she brought up herself) and had a training grant to train in Germany some years ago. also she lived only 20 min away.... I still never heard her name before. obviously her clients did not belong to the crowd I usually hang out with...
                                    My next step was to call her. she was very friendly and I invited her to come to a clinic I was riding in. she came with a couple of friends and afterwards invited me to come to her place and watch her riding and give a lesson.

                                    That was 5 years ago... Since then I have been taking lessons with her. she brought me from 1st level to 4th level ( without riding my horses) and is the nicest person in the world. all her students are at least riding 3rd level and up. most ride PSG.

                                    And of course I told my farrier that she did accept me 😄
                                    Word of mouth is definitely worth something. I do value reviews from other professionals for sure.

                                    Great that you found someone who has helped you grow and progress! And they live close to you, how lucky!

                                    Comment


                                    • #58
                                      Originally posted by Moogles View Post
                                      When I go to shows, barns often are stabled together. I get a good idea of who is in what program that way. Also watching the warm up rings I can see some of the trainers teaching styles.

                                      Our shows are small enough you get to know who the trainers are. Also looking at who is an "open" rider sometimes gives a clue. I watched my current trainer at a show and loved her sympathetic riding style. A couple years later I am training with her now. I wouldn't have known about her unless I had seen her go at the show as her barn was relatively new at the time.
                                      The warm up ring reveals a lot about a trainer’s style and teaching methods.
                                      very educational!

                                      Comment


                                      • #59
                                        To me the proof is in observation. The medals show achievement yes but they are still score related which, even with judge qualification, is still subjective.

                                        I chose trainers based on observable skill and personality. I was looking at a potential trainer with her medals that, after talking to her, wouldn't have recommended her to my worse enemy. Could she ride, yes, was she effective, yes; and that was about it.

                                        Comment


                                        • #60
                                          I strongly prefer a trainer who has brought their horses through the levels, mainly because I buy mine as babies so I'm doing all the work from day one and I want guidance from someone who has worked through all of the stages. I just started with a new trainer and the primary reason was that she has brought multiple horses up the levels all the way to GP. An added bonus is that she's done so successfully with more than one mare, and I know one of those was not the easiest horse. I have a super 2018 filly and it suddenly became very important to me to not only find someone who will help me be successful on my current horse, but also develop a relationship with someone who will work well with my filly in a couple of years.

                                          Comment

                                          Working...
                                          X