Stallion Spotlight

Fasino-12-16-07-175

Real Estate Spotlight

100_7261
  • Welcome to the Chronicle Forums.
    Please complete your profile. The forums and the rest of www.chronofhorse.com has single sign-in, so your log in information for one will automatically work for the other. Disclaimer: The opinions expressed here are the views of the individual and do not necessarily reflect the views and opinions of The Chronicle of the Horse.

Announcement

Collapse

Forum rules and no-advertising policy

As a participant on this forum, it is your responsibility to know and follow our rules. Please read this message in its entirety.

Board Rules

1. You�re responsible for what you say.
As outlined in Section 230 of the Communications Decency Act, The Chronicle of the Horse and its affiliates, as well Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd., the developers of vBulletin, are not legally responsible for statements made in the Forums.

This is a public forum viewed by a wide spectrum of people, so please be mindful of what you say and who might be reading it�details of personal disputes may be better handled privately. While posters are legally responsible for their statements, the moderators may in their discretion remove or edit posts, though are not legally obligated to do so, regardless of content.

Users have the ability to modify or delete their own messages after posting. Moderators generally will not delete posts, threads or accounts unless they have been alerted and have determined that a post, thread or user has violated the Forums� policies. Moderators do not regularly independently monitor the Forums for such violations.

Profanity, outright vulgarity, blatant personal insults or otherwise inappropriate statements will not be tolerated and will be dealt with at the discretion of the moderators.

Users may provide their positive or negative experiences with or opinions of companies, products, individuals, etc.; however, accounts involving allegations of criminal behavior against named individuals or companies MUST be first-hand accounts and may NOT be made anonymously.

If a situation has been reported upon by a reputable news source or addressed by law enforcement or the legal system it is open for discussion, but if an individual wants to make their own claims of criminal behavior against a named party in the course of that discussion, they too must identify themselves by first and last name and the account must be first-person.

Criminal allegations that do not satisfy these requirements, when brought to our attention, may be removed pending satisfaction of these criteria, and we reserve the right to err on the side of caution when making these determinations.

Credible threats of suicide will be reported to the police along with identifying user information at our disposal, in addition to referring the user to suicide helpline resources such as 1-800-SUICIDE or 1-800-273-TALK.

2. Conversations in horse-related forums should be horse-related.
The forums are a wonderful source of information and support for members of the horse community. While it�s understandably tempting to share information or search for input on other topics upon which members might have a similar level of knowledge, members must maintain the focus on horses.

3. Keep conversations productive, on topic and civil.
Discussion and disagreement are inevitable and encouraged; personal insults, diatribes and sniping comments are unproductive and unacceptable. Whether a subject is light-hearted or serious, keep posts focused on the current topic and of general interest to other participants of that thread. Utilize the private message feature or personal email where appropriate to address side topics or personal issues not related to the topic at large.

4. No advertising in the discussion forums.
Posts in the discussion forums directly or indirectly advertising horses, jobs, items or services for sale or wanted will be removed at the discretion of the moderators. Use of the private messaging feature or email addresses obtained through users� profiles for unsolicited advertising is not permitted.

Company representatives may participate in discussions and answer questions about their products or services, or suggest their products on recent threads if they fulfill the criteria of a query. False "testimonials" provided by company affiliates posing as general consumers are not appropriate, and self-promotion of sales, ad campaigns, etc. through the discussion forums is not allowed.

Paid advertising is available on our classifieds site and through the purchase of banner ads. The tightly monitored Giveaways forum permits free listings of genuinely free horses and items available or wanted (on a limited basis). Items offered for trade are not allowed.

Advertising Policy Specifics
When in doubt of whether something you want to post constitutes advertising, please contact a moderator privately in advance for further clarification. Refer to the following points for general guidelines:

Horses � Only general discussion about the buying, leasing, selling and pricing of horses is permitted. If the post contains, or links to, the type of specific information typically found in a sales or wanted ad, and it�s related to a horse for sale, regardless of who�s selling it, it doesn�t belong in the discussion forums.

Stallions � Board members may ask for suggestions on breeding stallion recommendations. Stallion owners may reply to such queries by suggesting their own stallions, only if their horse fits the specific criteria of the original poster. Excessive promotion of a stallion by its owner or related parties is not permitted and will be addressed at the discretion of the moderators.

Services � Members may use the forums to ask for general recommendations of trainers, barns, shippers, farriers, etc., and other members may answer those requests by suggesting themselves or their company, if their services fulfill the specific criteria of the original post. Members may not solicit other members for business if it is not in response to a direct, genuine query.

Products � While members may ask for general opinions and suggestions on equipment, trailers, trucks, etc., they may not list the specific attributes for which they are in the market, as such posts serve as wanted ads.

Event Announcements � Members may post one notification of an upcoming event that may be of interest to fellow members, if the original poster does not benefit financially from the event. Such threads may not be �bumped� excessively. Premium members may post their own notices in the Event Announcements forum.

Charities/Rescues � Announcements for charitable or fundraising events can only be made for 501(c)(3) tax-exempt organizations. Special exceptions may be made, at the moderators� discretion and direction, for board-related events or fundraising activities in extraordinary circumstances.

Occasional posts regarding horses available for adoption through IRS-registered horse rescue or placement programs are permitted in the appropriate forums, but these threads may be limited at the discretion of the moderators. Individuals may not advertise or make announcements for horses in need of rescue, placement or adoption unless the horse is available through a recognized rescue or placement agency or government-run entity or the thread fits the criteria for and is located in the Giveaways forum.

5. Do not post copyrighted photographs unless you have purchased that photo and have permission to do so.

6. Respect other members.
As members are often passionate about their beliefs and intentions can easily be misinterpreted in this type of environment, try to explore or resolve the inevitable disagreements that arise in the course of threads calmly and rationally.

If you see a post that you feel violates the rules of the board, please click the �alert� button (exclamation point inside of a triangle) in the bottom left corner of the post, which will alert ONLY the moderators to the post in question. They will then take whatever action, or no action, as deemed appropriate for the situation at their discretion. Do not air grievances regarding other posters or the moderators in the discussion forums.

Please be advised that adding another user to your �Ignore� list via your User Control Panel can be a useful tactic, which blocks posts and private messages by members whose commentary you�d rather avoid reading.

7. We have the right to reproduce statements made in the forums.
The Chronicle of the Horse may copy, quote, link to or otherwise reproduce posts, or portions of posts, in print or online for advertising or editorial purposes, if attributed to their original authors, and by posting in this forum, you hereby grant to The Chronicle of the Horse a perpetual, non-exclusive license under copyright and other rights, to do so.

8. We reserve the right to enforce and amend the rules.
The moderators may delete, edit, move or close any post or thread at any time, or refrain from doing any of the foregoing, in their discretion, and may suspend or revoke a user�s membership privileges at any time to maintain adherence to the rules and the general spirit of the forum. These rules may be amended at any time to address the current needs of the board.

Please see our full Terms of Service and Privacy Policy for more information.

Thanks for being a part of the COTH forums!

(Revised 5/9/18)
See more
See less

" Buck B Horsemanship"/Vaquero style/Bridle horse = Dressage?

Collapse
X
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • " Buck B Horsemanship"/Vaquero style/Bridle horse = Dressage?

    I was hoping some would like discuss this and maybe shed some light on this. Just another opportunity to learn.

    I've always enjoyed Buck Brannaman as a trainer. I wasn't a devouted fan but just admired his groundwork techniques and he does look like a lovely rider. I've only ever watched videos and only watched one clinic. I've used some of his techniques with certain horses but also went years where I used more traditional dressage ground work techniques like lunging in side reins, long lining ect.

    I'm in the West and many trainers here like to blend various horsemanship type stuff with Dressage. I thought this made sense, to have a ground work base to start with. But honestly it never occurred to me that some considered this type of riding to be equal or a better version of Dressage. Cue me being confused when being asked to do things that just seemed to go against what I've been taught by other dressage instructors and read about in books ect.

    I tried to follow through. There wasn't any harm in don't anything different. It just didn't seem to get us anywhere. For months. I can absolutely see ether value in some of it... But I began to question just how it would work out in progressing in dressage.

    Here is some of the things that I couldn't see how you could continue to use the techniques in dressage. Now I know some are from Buck B, who in my understanding is experienced in training up a horse as a "Bridle horse" and ranch horse. Some of this may not be from Buck B.

    The light, open hands thing. Personally I wouldn't do this for a Dressage prospect. I'm under the impression that it actually can create an unsteady uncontact. Maybe not with different reins. Also it seems to be the horse is encouraged to be backed off the bit. I realize this is in the name of feel and softness. I can see merit at the beginning with a young horse but then I would think you would want to move on and encourage the horse to seek the contact more.

    There seems to be an emphasis on turn on the forehand/haunches. It seems to me that for Dressage, we would want to get it down but then move on to more forward thinking lateral work. There is also something about switching your legs for a turn but I was lost. Also not using your calve to cue a horse.


    Buck B sure seems like a gorgeous, thoughtful rider who incorporates some Dressage into his training. I've seen lovely lateral work from him. But watching from what I've seen, it's not the same as training up the levels. It looks like how to train a very nice ranch horse or all around horse. I see merit in a lot of it but I can't understand how some see that as "Dressage" itself. Some even say that Buck has it figured out more than anyone in the actual sport or the ODG of Dressage.

    Personally for me, I think I'll use some of the ground work and a few things here in there but I prefer to stick with a more normal dressage approach.

    I'd love insight though! I do enjoy Buck B but as said am not a hardcore fan so I'm sure there are those who have insight.
    Last edited by Lunabear1988; Feb. 7, 2019, 09:17 PM.

  • Lunabear1988
    replied
    DLee that's how I see it. Seems like it can certainly be used in Dressage. I wasn't familiar with Ellen but looked her up. It sounds like she's had a very good education all around. And is accomplished with accomplished students. I'd be more inclined to follow her guidance with faith!

    The trainers here, one shows but has no scores at all. None of their students are accomplished either. And I just don't see them going in a productive path, Dressage wise. Now this could just be because someone can only learn so much in a clinic with Buck once a year.

    The other doesn't compete. He's not a terrible rider, he's soft and kind. Great with troubled horses. Had taught piaffe ect. Although all the horses go around with hollow backs, behind the vertical... Ect

    So I think another thing that puzzles me is education. Or lack of education. Competition isn't important to me but I do like to know who I'm listening to knows what they are talking about and can also help others progress. I definitely will use some of what Buck teaches. But if any of the accomplished, correct and respected Dressage trainers I ride with say that I should not use a certain technique anymore, I'll be inclined to listen.

    Thanks for the wonderful discussion!

    Leave a comment:


  • Scribbler
    replied
    Originally posted by Foxtrot's View Post
    ...bearing in mind that the modern day well bred dressage horse has a lot of the thrust, impulsion and elevation bred into him. Not all horses are even capable of it.
    My point about improving the gaits is that any horse can achieve better rhythm, stride, impulsion, lift, relative to what they present as a green horse. They might not be spectacular but they are more correct and move better.

    My mare being a case in point. We have gone from a lazy walk to a big stride, and from a sewing machine almost fox trot to a normal working trot over several years.

    I then see horses with much bigger lofty natural strides than she has, being schooled in ways that give them a pony trot, no over step, falling on the forehand, etc.

    So you can also school in ways that deteriorate the gaits too.

    Leave a comment:


  • mvp
    replied
    Originally posted by DLee View Post
    I absolutely hear your question about contact and also the leg cues for turning horses. The first clinic I rode in with Buck I noticed the leg cues for turning were EXACTLY opposite what I had been taught, inside leg at the girth outside leg behind the girth. It confused the hell out of me. For a while I actually switched my legs (if THAT wasn't an exercise in self discipline, it took forever and I never got totally solid at it.) I've kind of settled somewhere in the middle where whatever or wherever my leg is on a horse they need to yield, which is basically what it's all about anyway right?
    On that bass-akward leg cue topic. I know, right? It's so hard to do what Brannaman (and some of his students who have taught me while mounted) do if you were taught to ride as we were!

    But here's my take on that: IMO, the sliding your inside heel way back is not about an aid on the horse's abdominal line on the inside. That is where I see these tall men touching their short horses with a spur. The point is not about touching the horse with the spur back there Rather, I think that leg position is about making absolutely sure that the inside sitting bone is light and off the horse. Remember that lots of western riders want to kick their feet out in front of them. If you had contact in your inside hand and had that same toe out in front of you, chances are, you'd be resting hard on that inside sitting bone. Your knee might not be straight and locked, but I'll bet you have some tension in that leg and are bracing against the stirrup a bit. And if that is so, your sitting bone does not feel like something a horse wants to relax his back into.

    I discovered this just by doing as I was instructed with a pretty good, nice-guy of a student of Brannaman's who was local to me when I lived in Oregon's Willamette Valley. I knew that this was one piece of his training that was too far off my over-all goal for my dressage horse. So I tried to figure out a way to ride here and get the right turns done without kicking my heel back. What I did worked ok. But then coming from English world, I have pretty good awareness of my sitting bones and how to move my leg in a way that does, or does not put weight on a sitting bone. I talked about it a bit with the pro and, being a nice guy, he didn't tell me I was way wrong about the "real" aid or effect accomplished by moving that inside leg so far back. But I explain all this so that you are aware that I'm just making my own hypothesis about it.

    If I ever get a dedicated bridle horse project (and a guru to go with it), AND if I learn why this inside leg way back is logical or worth doing, I'll let you guys know.

    Leave a comment:


  • DLee
    replied
    Originally posted by Lunabear1988 View Post
    pluvinel I absolutely think Buck B is a LOVELY, talented rider. Hands down. And growing up riding Western, I think Western riders are just as capable of riding well as anyone else...

    I've seen great Dressage riders, I've seen some awful ones. I've seen great hunter jumpers, I've seen some awful ones. I've seen some great barrel racers and some awful ones.

    This isn't a dressage vs Western riding thread. This was some people in my area every much believe that Buck B or Vaquero riding IS Dressage. I see similarities, sure. Could some of it be used with a dressage horse? Sure... If you follow the system soley then will you get an upper level Dressage horse? I can't see how you would. I haven't seen anyone do it anyways.

    It just really seems to me that while you can incorporate some into your training, it's best to really understand what you are doing. As with most things.
    I haven't read every page but here are my thoughts on your first post and the one I quoted. (I read MVP's post and I feel it is right on.)
    I have ridden with Buck a few times and with his SIL a few times as well. I've also ridden with Ellen Eckstein who is a dressage trainer who rode primarily with Tom Dorrance.

    I absolutely hear your question about contact and also the leg cues for turning horses. The first clinic I rode in with Buck I noticed the leg cues for turning were EXACTLY opposite what I had been taught, inside leg at the girth outside leg behind the girth. It confused the hell out of me. For a while I actually switched my legs (if THAT wasn't an exercise in self discipline, it took forever and I never got totally solid at it.) I've kind of settled somewhere in the middle where whatever or wherever my leg is on a horse they need to yield, which is basically what it's all about anyway right?

    As far as contact, you are correct in that he doesn't want a horse truly "in your hand" as we generally think of it. The 'soft feel' is indeed, very very soft. I've also come to ride my horses very soft but also 'there'. With a regular cavesson. It's been a thing with me that if I need more than a regular cavesson I need to fix what is going on.
    There is a good book/dvd called "Bringing it Together" which addresses a lot of what you are asking. It's short but sweet.

    Ellen (Eckstein) teaches that picking up a contact is the first cue for a horse to move forward and encourages that first movement to be with the hind leg. As it gets refined it basically asks for more engagement just by a slight lifting of the rein later on.

    It's really cool, thought provoking stuff. It's made me think outside of the box much quicker. I'm definitely more of a 'journey' kind of person with goals rather than a goal person no matter how I get there. I have three homebreds that I have started and brought along this way. The groundwork is invaluable and there is always a higher level of responsiveness to be attained. Bottom line, Buck's philosophy is always to "get to the feet". If you can't control the feet you can't control anything else. Do as little as possible and as much as necessary. Always offer the horse the good deal first.

    Leave a comment:


  • Foxtrot's
    replied
    ...bearing in mind that the modern day well bred dressage horse has a lot of the thrust, impulsion and elevation bred into him. Not all horses are even capable of it.

    Leave a comment:


  • alibi_18
    replied
    Originally posted by Scribbler View Post
    Yes.

    With the caveat that many lower level dressage riders don't develop the gaits either.
    And that's why they are lower level riders, and often stay there. They don't understand or know how to develop their horse's gaits.

    By which I don't mean just trying for the biggest trot. I mean reach and rhythm and cadence and eventually suspension to your horse's ability. My coach does work on this. I've watched a lot of horses make progress in their overall way of moving. Including horses with average gaits get more correct, even if never flashy.
    Correct riding will have that effect on gaits. Just doing corners properly is one big thing to understand. I ride my friend's horse a few times per month, and as good as she is as a rider, she has no clue yet on how to do correct, let's say to reach higher level, corners. We have the same trainer, so she'll get there, but it is details like that that separates riders. At least, she understands and sees the difference, she's just not skilled enough in her half halt yet to produce good corners.

    But I see other riders already working on things like half pass trot, flying changes, collection as they understand it. Horses they've been schooling for five years in some cases. Horses with natural talent. But the horses still move like green uneducated horses in terms of the quality of gaits.
    I see this as a circle where you do some movements, come back to basics, and learn some more movements, then back to basics again, then you understand the reach of each movements, then your basics are even better and then you progress substantially from novice to intermediate rider and then you go back to basics and so on... Same goes for the training of the horse. That's how you get 7yrs old to PSG and up.

    Leave a comment:


  • Scribbler
    replied
    Yes.

    With the caveat that many lower level dressage riders don't develop the gaits either.

    By which I don't mean just trying for the biggest trot. I mean reach and rhythm and cadence and eventually suspension to your horse's ability. My coach does work on this. I've watched a lot of horses make progress in their overall way of moving. Including horses with average gaits get more correct, even if never flashy.

    But I see other riders already working on things like half pass trot, flying changes, collection as they understand it. Horses they've been schooling for five years in some cases. Horses with natural talent. But the horses still move like green uneducated horses in terms of the quality of gaits.



    Leave a comment:


  • cardinale
    replied
    Feathered Feet nails it, IMO.

    Leave a comment:


  • Lunabear1988
    replied
    mvp I agree being in an area where it is around is helpful.

    I still would think it's simply similar to dressage.

    Leave a comment:


  • Lunabear1988
    replied
    Feathered_Feet yes I'm going for your latter point. I thought your post was very eloquent!

    Leave a comment:


  • Feathered_Feet
    replied
    Originally posted by Lunabear1988 View Post

    Buck B sure seems like a gorgeous, thoughtful rider who incorporates some Dressage into his training. I've seen lovely lateral work from him. But watching from what I've seen, it's not the same as training up the levels. It looks like how to train a very nice ranch horse or all around horse. I see merit in a lot of it but I can't understand how some see that as "Dressage" itself. Some even say that Buck has it figured out more than anyone in the actual sport or the ODG of Dressage.

    Personally for me, I think I'll use some of the ground work and a few things here in there but I prefer to stick with a more normal dressage approach.

    I'd love insight though! I do enjoy Buck B but as said am not a hardcore fan so I'm sure there are those who have insight.
    Ok, after seeing this thread over a couple days, I'll bite.

    Lunabear, I think it all comes down to how you define dressage - do you mean:
    • produce an excellent riding horse, that can get through a training/first level test? or,
    • develop a horse's gaits to its maximum capacity in terms of elasticity, suspension, impulsion, and collection? (consistent with the contemporary standards of FEI dressage.)

    Because I would guess that Buck and his peers can certainly do the former, but likely not the latter (without guidance on how to do that).

    I'm currently moving my mare up the levels (schooling third level now, with FEI capabilities and goals), and the overwhelming emphasis in my training is not about figures, or obedience, or teaching movements - it's about developing more activity, more elasticity, more thrust, more collection, more from her natural athleticism. I do almost no "dressage movements", unless they are part of the exercise (i.e., we do shoulder in not because that's in the test, but because it develops engagement, etc.).

    I don't imagine Buck and peers place much emphasis on developing the gaits in this manner in their training. If the goal is to ride a nice first level test, I'm almost sure they could produce that - any remotely talented trainer could. It's pretty straightforward stuff.

    An example - I have a friend that rides quarter horses (mostly western, but I think the type of saddle is largely irrelevant). She is a beautiful, tactful, sensitive rider, and wants to do dressage. Unfortunately her understanding is about that of a training/first level rider - develop a connection, the horse must be forward, then you ride your pattern accurately. She doesn't understand that that is only sufficient at first level - the horse must develop more thrust and sit in order to succeed above that. She thinks (like many not in the sandbox) that its about teaching movements (changes, half-pass, etc.,) and if riding those correctly, the necessary thrust and sit will naturally come with it. She doesn't understand how much emphasis is put on actively developing those gaits, independent of the movements you would need to ride a test.

    I've seen "western" trainers train nicer lower level horses then some "dressage" trainers, so at the lower levels, I think it doesn't really matter. A nicely trained riding horse is pretty discipline un-specific. But I have yet to see a non-dressage-developed horse (with the possible exception of working equitation horses) that I thought could go into an FEI ring and be successful. (It is entirely possible that I'm wrong, and, if motivated, Buck could develop that kind of horse.)

    In all, I think if your goal is to ride above Second level dressage, I would never train with someone who doesn't specialize in it (save the rare jumper trainer that has ridden and competed in FEI level work - less common in the US than overseas). They just wouldn't understand the importance of developing (or even how to develop) the non-test components of dressage (why it's not just a head set, why it's so much more than riding an accurate figure/movement).

    Anyway, I hope this addressed some of your question, in-eloquent as I may be!




    Leave a comment:


  • mvp
    replied
    Originally posted by Lunabear1988 View Post
    pluvinel I absolutely think Buck B is a LOVELY, talented rider. Hands down. And growing up riding Western, I think Western riders are just as capable of riding well as anyone else...

    I've seen great Dressage riders, I've seen some awful ones. I've seen great hunter jumpers, I've seen some awful ones. I've seen some great barrel racers and some awful ones.

    This isn't a dressage vs Western riding thread. This was some people in my area every much believe that Buck B or Vaquero riding IS Dressage. I see similarities, sure. Could some of it be used with a dressage horse? Sure... If you follow the system soley then will you get an upper level Dressage horse? I can't see how you would. I haven't seen anyone do it anyways.

    It just really seems to me that while you can incorporate some into your training, it's best to really understand what you are doing. As with most things.
    I do think that folks have a real advantage if they live in an area where they can see many Vaquero-type riders. Same goes for seeing top-end dressage trainers and riding as opposed to those who are less educated. If you aren't comparing the top of each style of horsemanship, I don't think you are talking in an apples-to-apples way.

    Leave a comment:


  • mvp
    replied
    Originally posted by pluvinel View Post
    You guys be the judge......
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rqyV9kGQpEc

    This isn't BB, but for discussion's sake....

    This cowboy is not doing dressage when he is on his horse.....but in my eye, he rides the "dressage horse" with more empathy towards the horse than the "dressage rider."
    So glad you posted that video. I had seen it awhile back and I, too, though the western rider gave the dressage horse a smoother ride. Didn't love seeing him ride the horse in a leverage bit two-handed. But maybe that was because the dressage rider would have the easiest time not being asked to ride only with his left hand. I'll bet the mouthpiece was broken, too.

    Really interesting, too, to compare the spins and pirouettes produced by each rider on each horse. I raise this since I had a question about how a western horse can do a "turn on the haunches" and also be on the forehand. I thought the cowboy got plenty of lift from his level-built horse in his spin. The dressage rider left the horse a little lower in front (sometimes) and he started to get that "coke bottle" spin that you don't want. I do think part of the problem with the coke bottle spin (center of rotation slips forward to the horse's barrel and is no longer around the hind end, is that they do lean down on those front legs when they are on the ground for longer than they should.

    Meh, I think that's just a rider not familiar with how a reiner must go.

    Leave a comment:


  • Lunabear1988
    replied
    pluvinel I absolutely think Buck B is a LOVELY, talented rider. Hands down. And growing up riding Western, I think Western riders are just as capable of riding well as anyone else...

    I've seen great Dressage riders, I've seen some awful ones. I've seen great hunter jumpers, I've seen some awful ones. I've seen some great barrel racers and some awful ones.

    This isn't a dressage vs Western riding thread. This was some people in my area every much believe that Buck B or Vaquero riding IS Dressage. I see similarities, sure. Could some of it be used with a dressage horse? Sure... If you follow the system soley then will you get an upper level Dressage horse? I can't see how you would. I haven't seen anyone do it anyways.

    It just really seems to me that while you can incorporate some into your training, it's best to really understand what you are doing. As with most things.

    Leave a comment:


  • alibi_18
    replied
    Originally posted by pluvinel View Post
    You guys be the judge......
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rqyV9kGQpEc

    This isn't BB, but for discussion's sake...

    This cowboy is not doing dressage when he is on his horse.....but in my eye, he rides the "dressage horse" with more empathy towards the horse than the "dressage rider."
    Really?

    You see how the western guy rides his own horse? His way of riding the spin... Ouch, wouldn't want to see him training it.

    I really don't see whatever you are talking about.

    And I don't understand the point you are trying to make with this.

    You like BB and prefer western training? Why don't you concentrate on that instead of bashing dressage in general.

    Life feels better when we talk and do stuff we like and appreciate.
    Last edited by alibi_18; Feb. 17, 2019, 07:48 AM.

    Leave a comment:


  • Lunabear1988
    replied
    pluvinel not sure who either of the either riders are, I can't see the video super clearly but don't come to the same conclusion from what is in that clip.

    Anyways, what does that have to do with any of this discussion?

    Leave a comment:


  • pluvinel
    replied
    You guys be the judge......
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rqyV9kGQpEc

    This isn't BB, but for discussion's sake....

    This cowboy is not doing dressage when he is on his horse.....but in my eye, he rides the "dressage horse" with more empathy towards the horse than the "dressage rider."

    Leave a comment:


  • mvp
    replied
    Originally posted by Scribbler View Post

    I have certainly seen western horses turn on their haunches yet still be heavy on the forehand and downhill in front.
    Can you show me an example?

    I don't see how that's biomechanically possible.

    I will say that I don't know enough about who the western folk want the horse to plant his inside hind foot and spin on that (for most of a circle). I know they don't want to pirouette. There is good reason in the working ranch horse's repertoire for staying still with his hind end. If he moves forward, he has allowed the cow he is holding to move forward down the rail as well, and that's not what's desired. Perhaps these horses built downhill still look downhill to you? I would imagine, however, that they are lifting up their front end in order to turn on their haunches just like more uphill-built horses do.

    Leave a comment:


  • Lunabear1988
    replied
    I find this thread so interesting on so many levels! I do think some aren't understanding my question at it's core, I could reframe it but from being an avid reader of Coth, I know that when people are passionate about something they have a harder time reading something objectively. I get it, although I do enjoy a more open minded conversation.

    Either way it's always fun to discuss and try to learn something from any side of the conversation

    Leave a comment:

Working...
X