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Opportunity to buy Holsteiner Mare in Foal

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  • Opportunity to buy Holsteiner Mare in Foal

    I have the opportunity to buy a 15 yr old Holsteiner in foal due this April. She is a preferred approved mare bred to a Holsteiner GP Jumper. What are your thoughts on the Holsteiner breed. Should they be left to the pros or can the average experienced rider bring the foal along. I would have professional help from my trainer through out the entire process. I would plan to use the foal for future dressage, unless they prefer to jump.

  • #2
    get your trainer's help on deciding whether to purchase the mare or not then. nobody can tell you whether you can handle a horse or its offspring based on the BREED. maybe people would have more advice based on the lineage of the horses, but even that is so variable that it's nearly impossible to say. obviously, not every single holsteiner out there is owned by a professional and not every single holsteiner out there can be owned by an amateur. it seems like you are taking a shotgun approach to horse buying and you need to decide what you really want to do and then work with a trainer to find a horse that is suitable for your goals. also, it must cost at least $25K, so you may have to take out a loan. natch.

    Comment


    • #3
      Ask your trainer & learn about the lines of this mare AND the expected foal. The breed itself does well in dressage (I competed through 3rd on my late mare by Rantares) and now own her 2003 son who is just finished his 2nd month of training. There's a good group of knowledgeable people in the sport horse breeding forum on this board that know the Holsteiner lines and what their traits tend to be.
      *bad shoulder clique * Member of "OMGiH, I loff my Mare" Clique! * Proud owner of a CANTER Cutie!
      My Horses; COMH Page; My Blog

      Comment

      • Original Poster

        #4
        The mares sire isLemgo. He had an exceptional canter. The sire of the foal is Lotus T, and is currently showing as an upper level jumper but is also an excellent mover

        Comment


        • #5
          Yikes!!

          Originally posted by dps View Post
          The mares sire isLemgo. He had an exceptional canter. The sire of the foal is Lotus T, and is currently showing as an upper level jumper but is also an excellent mover
          Are you sure about the pedigree? The mare is by Lemgo? Lotus T is by Lemgo out of a TB mare.
          http://ShowjumpersUSA.com
          CAMPESINO (1990 - 2008)
          Capitol I - Sacramento Song xx
          http://www.caringbridge.org/visit/annalisasmith

          Comment


          • #6
            The bloodlines of the mare and foal are not as relevant, as your ability to deal with a foal that will in time progress to be a weanling, , yearling, etc. At all levels they will challenge you, unless you are capable of dealing with them. Horses are horses, are horses.














            the breeding of the mare and the foal , are
            Some riders change their horse, they change their saddle, they change their teacher; they never change themselves.

            Remember the horse does all the work, we just sit there and look pretty.

            Comment


            • #7
              I do think the plan sucks.

              I would not use a dressage trainer to advise me or guide me in the intricacies of breeding and raising a foal. I would work with a breeder. It's hardly a given that a trainer has ANY experience with mares and foals - or ENOUGH experience with mares and foals. Sure, I know a trainer or two who has done a little with mares, but my choice would be a breeder, not a trainer. One with many years of experience. And I'd also get myself a reproduction specialist vet - not just your local vet.

              And after having our youngster tangle in the fence yesterday and watching our little slice of heaven disintegrate before our eyes, I'd suggest you take very seriously WHERE AND HOW you are going to keep this mare and her foal. Our 10,000 dollar fence is in ruin, the costly 'safety features' don't seem so safe any more, and we now have no turnout there, and we have an injured horse.

              Mares and foals are not like other horses. Foals are, for all intents and purposes, wild animals. They are not born understanding that fences are barriers, they learn by running into them. They run into fences, they get hurt, and they need very, very special handling. mares have a whole different set or priorities than geldings and it is just NOT something ayone should just say 'oh, I think i'll do this, it sounds like fun'. Or - HA HA - a way to save money and 'get a nice horse cheap' - if you think that's going to happen, think again!

              The LAST thing that's good for a foal is trying to keep it in a stall at a boarding barn, or on your own farm, unless you've got acres and acres of pasture that are good all year - and...appropriate fencing.

              Comment

              • Original Poster

                #8
                This is from the breeder that I'm thinking of buying from:

                I am pleased you see the opportunity in this mare. I have for many years had mares I could breed back to my stallionmLemgo. Since she is a Lemgo daughter, I cannot do this, although line breeding is not an uncommon thing, especially in Europe. You are right. This mare is line bred, but again, this is a common practice in Europe, and they get pretty excellent results with their breeding programs, so I though I would breed to thisi proven son of Lemgo's. I hope you looked at the wiebsite him and Lemgo.
                I will be happy to have you come look at this mare, and I can show you several other horses with similar breeding so you will have an idea of what my program produces.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by slc2 View Post
                  I do think the plan sucks.

                  I would not use a dressage trainer to advise me or guide me in the intricacies of breeding and raising a foal. I would work with a breeder. It's hardly a given that a trainer has ANY experience with mares and foals - or ENOUGH experience with mares and foals. Sure, I know a trainer or two who has done a little with mares, but my choice would be a breeder, not a trainer. One with many years of experience. And I'd also get myself a reproduction specialist vet - not just your local vet.
                  Not all trainers are completely without knowledge about breeding. I train, and have been breeding for some time now.


                  [/quote]And after having our youngster tangle in the fence yesterday and watching our little slice of heaven disintegrate before our eyes, I'd suggest you take very seriously WHERE AND HOW you are going to keep this mare and her foal. Our 10,000 dollar fence is in ruin, the costly 'safety features' don't seem so safe any more, and we now have no turnout there, and we have an injured horse. [/quote]


                  This is news. Where did the "youngster" come from. Did you buy Young Filly's mare? Has the foal arrived already? Who is the father?

                  Mares and foals are not like other horses. Foals are, for all intents and purposes, wild animals. They are not born understanding that fences are barriers, they learn by running into them. They run into fences, they get hurt, and they need very, very special handling. mares have a whole different set or priorities than geldings and it is just NOT something anyone should just say 'oh, I think I'll do this, it sounds like fun'. Or - HA HA - a way to save money and 'get a nice horse cheap' - if you think that's going to happen, think again!
                  Very true live is not without risks. How boring life would be if we all wrapped ourselves in bubble wrap and stay home never venturing out, but I can only assume you know people like that SLC?

                  The LAST thing that's good for a foal is trying to keep it in a stall at a boarding barn, or on your own farm, unless you've got acres and acres of pasture that are good all year - and...appropriate fencing.
                  Partly true but the horse I have now was BORN in a boarding barn and is a very happy adjusted socialized horse so generalizations should never be made. I prefer to speak from PERSONAL experiences rather than from what I read in books.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    LOL. Even my friends with mature riding geldings, are constantly struggling to get them turned out enough at boarding barns - they're even struggling to do that at their OWN farms - for 2 yrs, the excess rain we've had in our area has wreaked havoc with a lot of people's farms - fence posts are floating loose, horses are knee deep in mud - providing turnout even on one's OWN land is not always easy.

                    I don't think most foals would develop in a healthy manner if they spent 23 1/2 hrs a day in a stall at a boarding barn, and their exercise consisted of standing in a small dirt paddock for 20 or 30 min once in a while. And yeah, I've worked at enough breeding farms to realize that it IS a general rule - that young animals need to be out as much as possible to develop physically and mentally.

                    I had to deal with foals that were raised on small farms without exercise or socialization with other horses - it don't work out too dang well. They aren't mentally or physically well developed. Young animals need to move around and be with other horses.

                    Someone who really wants to get a broodmare isn't necessarily going to provide poor facilities, but it'd be good if they were prepared and the foal got plenty of care. It's not a small thing to take on.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Personally i would take expert advice before getting a fence. from a Fencer with experience of fencing at the highest levels. I would not use just any old person who came along with a pick up truck full of glossy brochures and a pile driver. No siree, not me. no way. I have many friends with horses injured though bad fencing decisions made by people of dubious experience. So don't get a mare and foal becuase to be sure after that you'll need a fence and you don't have the experience or ability to make that decision nor does your trainer which i can tell despite the undeniable fact that we have never met nor are we likely to and i know nothing about you except you should get neither foal nor fence or even a mare.lol.

                      Comment

                      • Original Poster

                        #12
                        What? I think we have gotten off topic?

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by dps View Post
                          What? I think we have gotten off topic?
                          I believe we did and how the assumption that a foal will be raised on a boarding barn was even brought into the conversation is a stretch of SLC's imagination that only SLC's brain could have thought of.

                          I personally see nothing wrong with your choice. Many people will buy full grown horses sight unseen from Europe so why not a mare in foal.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            For one to make the assumption that a dressage trainer is not a good one to look for advice on a mare in foal is just ridiculous! I'm amazed time and time again at how people generalize.

                            Granted, there ARE trainers out there who do NOT have experience with breeding and helping students make sound breeding decisions. I've been lucky to find a trainer who is both a Holsteiner breeder AND dressage trainer AND dressage instructor. She helped me make breeding decisions regarding my late mare which has given me Chevy. I'm quite pleased with the outcome (he's 4 now and going into his 3rd month of training with the same trainer that helped me with the cross). He's doing fabulous and my once obnoxious colt turned obnoxious gelding is now a VERY GOOD student who loves his new job.

                            I will say though, that the L lines can be tough to deal with. They can be quite stubborn, almost too much so for an ammy (granted not ALL L line colts/fillies are like this, some are quite easy going and easy to handle). There were times where I was intimitated by Chevy as he was growing up (Chevy is out of a Rantares daughter and by the late Holseiner stallion Lacoste). But I'm very glad that I stuck it out and I'm glad that my trainer was willing to help with raising him. I'm very lucky that my trainer also only lives a mile down the road from me so stopping over at my place was no problem for her.

                            If you have an opportunity to see other horses of similar lines to the foal that the mare is carrying, I'd highly suggest going to see them and handle them. Get a feel for how they're put together & how their dispositions are.
                            *bad shoulder clique * Member of "OMGiH, I loff my Mare" Clique! * Proud owner of a CANTER Cutie!
                            My Horses; COMH Page; My Blog

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              I have read this - and don't understand what it is you want out of this deal?

                              What are you going to do with the mare after she foals? She will be 16 - and the market for 16 yo brood mares is limited. (You did not say how she was bred on the bottom - or her mare scores) What has the mare done - what has she produced?

                              You want a dressage horse? But you are buying a line bred jumper foal in utero?

                              It sounds to me like someone is trying to unload a bred mare they do not want. IF I were you - and I wanted a foal - I would wait until spring and buy a foal that is already on the ground, healthy and can be evaluated for quality.

                              Comment


                              • #16
                                I'm with BC5098 on this.... not quite sure what it is you're looking for. You would buy a mare in foal because of what? The mare will be on the older side and the foal, in addition to being very closely bred (and I'm being kind here), should be a jumper.

                                The mare will be too old to be a promising riding prospect unless you're only looking for a trail horse. The foal will take three years before you can even put a saddle on him... In the meantime you will be paying for board and training advice and get exactly what in return?

                                There is some truth to the fact that boarding stables are typically not the perfect environment for a growing foal. Even if you're not worried about sufficient turn-out, think of all the coming and going of horses and all those new "bugs" your youngsters will have to ward off to on an on-going basis. That's what would worry me more than what type of fencing your boarding place has.

                                And I also totally agree with BC5098's last paragraph...

                                "It sounds to me like someone is trying to unload a bred mare they do not want. IF I were you - and I wanted a foal - I would wait until spring and buy a foal that is already on the ground, healthy and can be evaluated for quality."
                                Siegi Belz
                                www.stalleuropa.com
                                2007 KWPN-NA Breeder of the Year
                                Dutch Warmbloods Made in the U. S. A.

                                Comment


                                • #17
                                  As a long time breeder, I, too, don't get it. Do you want to buy the mare to get a cheap dressage horse out of the foal? Trust me, it will NOT be cheap. Then what are you going to do with the mare? Is she just a carrier for the foal and then a leftover when the foal is weaned? Are you aware that foals are walking accidents looking for a place to happen? What exactly IS your goal??
                                  Tranquility Farm - Proud breeder of Born in the USA Sport Horses, and Cob-sized Warmbloods
                                  Now apparently completely invisible!

                                  Comment


                                  • #18
                                    Ditto the others.... are you looking at the mare or the foal to keep? Granted that jumper blood is good to build the engine on the dressage blood.... but I don't really see that any dressage blood is in the cross with this pair. So chances are pretty high that you'll get a jumper with the foal.
                                    *bad shoulder clique * Member of "OMGiH, I loff my Mare" Clique! * Proud owner of a CANTER Cutie!
                                    My Horses; COMH Page; My Blog

                                    Comment

                                    • Original Poster

                                      #19
                                      Well first let me clarify that I have my own horse farm and will not be boarding the foal. My husband and I redid all of our fencing this summer with post and board. We have 4 acres of pasture divided into three pastures and a paddock. We still have more to fence in but ran out of time. I have a nice 5 stall barn that I can easly combine two stalls into one for the mare and foal.
                                      After reading the last few comments, you are right what am I going to do with a 16 year old mare and a foal with jumper blood. I was on Iron Spring Farm and Hilltop Farms websites both farms are very close to me and I can get a very nice foal from clients of these farms not the farms directly for affordable prices. I would also be getting a confirmed bloodline in dressage.
                                      I am looking at getting a foal because it will be 3-4 years before I can ride seriously again while I raise my children. I have a 9 month old son and another one on the way so riding for the next few years will be very slim. I currently have a TB mare and a Perchx who I have trained to 3rd level dressage and Novice level eventing. Lucky for me my Perchx is very low key and easy to ride, which allows me to ride when I can without worrying what to expect. I have a 100' x 150' ring that we had installed last winter so a place to ride is no problem. I have experience breaking and riding TB's, Arab's and QHx's just have not done it for a few years and plan to have my trainer much more involved than in the past. I hope this helps you see where I am coming from?

                                      Comment


                                      • #20
                                        Originally posted by dps View Post
                                        I hope this helps you see where I am coming from?
                                        Absolutely and the reason why I try not to prejudge.

                                        That mare can be re bred to any number of good stallions in your area should you choose to do so.

                                        I wish you every bit of good fortune with your endeavor.

                                        Comment

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