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My dog, vaccinations & de-worming : totally confused.

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  • My dog, vaccinations & de-worming : totally confused.

    I was already confused and after speaking to my vet even more confused.
    First Q, dogsy (uhm) will pick the odd horse manure ball & eat it. He gets monthly Heartguard Plus, does he need another de-wormer like Panacur to protect him from parasites he might pickup due to eating horse poop?

    Second Q, dogsy was vaccinated for (I think they are vaccines, was listed as follows on his record card)
    Bordetella,
    Anaplasmosis/Lyme/Erlichia/Heartworm,
    DA2LPP
    Rabies
    Lyme's Disease vaccination
    DHLP-Parvo

    Does he need any other vaccines to be safe around other dogs and dogboarding?

    *Vet was saying he needs to come back in for Kennel Cough vaccination, but isn't Bordetella the same as Kennel Cough? Seems he'd be getting it twice in that case?
    *And is the Lyme in the "Anaplasmosis/Lyme/Erlichia/Heartworm"-vaccine, different from Lyme's Disease vaccination or did he get vaccinated for Lyme's twice in that case?
    *And if they get Kennel Cough vaccine it's recommended they also get the canine influenza vaccine, correct?

    Boy oh boy, dogs get almost as many vaccines as horses.

    Thanking you!

  • #2
    I was already confused and after speaking to my vet even more confused.
    First Q, dogsy (uhm) will pick the odd horse manure ball & eat it. He gets monthly Heartguard Plus, does he need another de-wormer like Panacur to protect him from parasites he might pickup due to eating horse poop? He doesn't need to dewormed for horse parasites- the routine horse wormies will not infect him, or course the kind that do are out there amongst the horse crap too though. .... the best deworming program for him will be based on his own fecal findings. That said Panacur is an excellent de-wormer for dogs too.

    Second Q, dogsy was vaccinated for (I think they are vaccines, was listed as follows on his record card)
    Bordetella, THis would be a vaccine for the BACTERIAL cause of kennel cough. Very short acting vax, not super effective
    Anaplasmosis/Lyme/Erlichia/Heartworm,This would be a blood test testing for those disease... probably a combo test that runs all at the same time.
    DA2LPP vaccine- routine. Used to be annual but that is more variable now.
    Rabiesrabies vaccine
    Lyme's Disease vaccinationLyme disease vaccine
    DHLP-Parvo essentially the same as DA2LPP ( vaccine)

    Does he need any other vaccines to be safe around other dogs and dogboarding? You shoule be good for boarding..... but do your Bordatella in the 3 months just prior to boarding.

    *Vet was saying he needs to come back in for Kennel Cough vaccination, but isn't Bordetella the same as Kennel Cough? Seems he'd be getting it twice in that case?See above
    *And is the Lyme in the "Anaplasmosis/Lyme/Erlichia/Heartworm"-vaccine, different from Lyme's Disease vaccination or did he get vaccinated for Lyme's twice in that case?see above
    *And if they get Kennel Cough vaccine it's recommended they also get the canine influenza vaccine, correct? although there is a new canine influenza- not sure many are vaccinating for it/if there is a vax yet even... maybe someone who does routine preventive SA med can answer in more depth. (I don't do small animal much anymore) One of the "P"s in the DHLPP is for parainfluenza which is the common cause of the viral form of canine cough
    http://www.facebook.com/pages/Cool-S...m/251196806403

    Comment

    • Original Poster

      #3
      Dr J, thank you for the explanation.

      Ah, I got it, one was a test, the other a vaccine, makes sense now, I wished they wrote all this down on the veterinary record, would be less guesswork for me .

      Only weird thing would be the DA2LPP, DHLP-Parvo being listed on the same record, perhaps the assistant wrote it down wrong, no big deal.

      I will leave him, sounds like he's fine to play with other dogs he may come in contact with and only when we plan to board him will I take him in for an update on the Kennel Cough (+ influenza, seems this vet has a separate one).

      He had a negative fecal, I guess he's good then combined with his Heartguard Plus monthly.

      Thanks mucho!!

      Comment


      • #4
        I would be concerned about the dog ingesting a toxic amount of ivermectin, if you're giving ivermectin directly to the dog monthly and s/he's also eating the feces of horses wormed with ivermectin.
        I'm not ignoring the rules. I'm interpreting the rules. Tamal, The Great British Baking Show

        Comment

        • Original Poster

          #5
          Thx P_M , I agree, I am extra careful the days immediately following de-worming my horses, those days he's only allowed out with a muzzle with poopguard to be sure (greyhound ) or penned up, at other times a year I leave the muzzle off, especially right now in summer, coz he's sneezing in it constantly.
          He knows not to eat manure, but yeah, sneaky dog for sure, behind my back he often quickly snatches some anyway.
          I find it totally gross, but I've not managed to stop him yet.

          Comment


          • #6
            Vets don't seem to be following the recommended protocols, in favour of the almighty $.

            UC Davis Dog Vaccination protocol;
            http://www.vetmed.ucdavis.edu/clubs/...accination.pdf
            http://vet.osu.edu/assets/pdf/hospit...Guidelines.pdf
            ... _. ._ .._. .._

            Comment

            • Original Poster

              #7
              Interesting link Equibrit, especially the 3yr suggestion.

              Problem is however, even if vets recommend 3 yrs, a lot of dogboarding places seem to think the more vaccinations the dog has had the safer. I think dogs that go to daycare or boarding are often vaccinated more then those that stay home with petsitters.

              I can't comment too much, because I know diddlysquat about dogs & vaccines, all reads like chinese to me, trying to understand it all, so I know what he does & does not need.
              My main concern was doubling vaccines within the same year.

              Comment


              • #8
                Boarding kennels around here tend to only be concerned with rabies and bordetella, and as Dr. J said above, bordetella is fairly short-acting. I can't imagine kennels arguing about the others as long as they're within teh 3yr. protocol.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Been a while since I dealt with dogs
                  But the heart guard should cover almost all worms that can be had. A fecal exam can't hurt though...

                  As I recall, in past years, conversing with people who show dogs, kennel cough vaccinations are marginally effective, so if you show a lot, or put your dog into a boarding situation they actually do recommend going on a 6 month schedule. but that is info from about 10 years ago, too.

                  Boarding kennels would not be too interested in that, since by the time the cough appears, the pooch is usually home...
                  Originally posted by BigMama1
                  Facts don't have versions. If they do, they are opinions
                  GNU Terry Prachett

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    I do not vaccinate at shorter interval than 3 years, but my vet still expects to ring them up every year. I have to INSIST on the correct protocol and she went to OSU. I'm sure most of her patients get the yearly routine, quite unnecessarily and at great cost.
                    ... _. ._ .._. .._

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      My vet actually recommends only vaccinating every 3 years, once the dog is over three years of age.

                      But that doesn't help me with the boarding kennels, who all require proof of yearly vaccine. So I haven't boarded the dogs anywhere in the last couple of years, because I'm not going against veterinary advice.
                      I'm not ignoring the rules. I'm interpreting the rules. Tamal, The Great British Baking Show

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Equibrit View Post
                        I do not vaccinate at shorter interval than 3 years, but my vet still expects to ring them up every year. I have to INSIST on the correct protocol and she went to OSU. I'm sure most of her patients get the yearly routine, quite unnecessarily and at great cost.
                        Posts like this make me want to figure out what to slip into our small animal vet's food to make him live FOREVER. (He's been semi-retired for 20+ years.)

                        He spends a lot of his free time reading up on the latest in the journals, and so he hasn't been pushing yearly vaccinations for quite some time. (Although he has always given rabies as per the state law - I think it took a while for the law to change to be from yearly to every X years.)

                        Plus, he's outstanding at giving the vaccinations. Last time, I'm not sure the dog even noticed he'd GOTTEN an injection.

                        (Unfortunately, due to being semi-retired he only does routine stuff like vaccinations, which means when my new rescue needed dental work it took forever to find someone to do it.)

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          There are AAHA guidelines for vaccinations, and there are modifications that every veterinarian makes depending on the pet's individual lifestyle.
                          For instance, Lepto is not a *core* vaccine, but is highly recommended in places where it is known to be a problem.

                          I'm from NJ and I can state with certainty that Lyme is a HUGE problem. Everyone in my family has gotten Lyme before, and I can guarantee if cats could all of mine would have.
                          Lyme vaccine is not core. The Lyme vaccine is somewhat controversial in itself; there are pros/cons to vaccinating and not vaccinating. Your vet should have gone over these with you.

                          Influenza is recommended by many places where dogs come into contact with other dogs frequently, i.e. boarding situations, shows, etc. This is the same with Bordatella (which, as stated before, is much shorter-acting).


                          At the hospital where I'm starting now, we recommend vaccine titers for everything after initial puppy/kitten shots/boosters in lieu of re-vaccinating, except for Rabies (which is required by law). The Rabies vaccine for cats is also every year instead of every 3 years, since it's a non-adjuvanted vaccine which carries less of a vaccine-related sarcoma risk. It's a very progressive practice, but not every vet has felt comfort in going with titers for every animal annually yet. Some animals have a good titer and don't need it, and some need a booster anyway in addition to the titer, so it ends up costing twice as much.

                          Hope this answers your questions! Also remember if you don't understand anything at a veterinary appointment, don't hesitate to ask questions!

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Pancakes View Post

                            At the hospital where I'm starting now, we recommend vaccine titers for everything after initial puppy/kitten shots/boosters in lieu of re-vaccinating, except for Rabies (which is required by law). The Rabies vaccine for cats is also every year instead of every 3 years, since it's a non-adjuvanted vaccine which carries less of a vaccine-related sarcoma risk. It's a very progressive practice, but not every vet has felt comfort in going with titers for every animal annually yet. Some animals have a good titer and don't need it, and some need a booster anyway in addition to the titer, so it ends up costing twice as much.

                            Hope this answers your questions! Also remember if you don't understand anything at a veterinary appointment, don't hesitate to ask questions!
                            Hey- congrats on graduation!! Welcome to the profession!

                            And for those of you who think that the vets that still recommend annual vaccines are money hungry, the Ivory tower recommended alternative as Pancakes mentions is annual titers. The cost of which make annual vax look like a Happy meal. Haven't priced it lately but last I was aware it was probably 3 times the cost of the vaccines. May have come down with more demand....but don't think it's ever going to be money-saving proposition.....just better medicine.
                            http://www.facebook.com/pages/Cool-S...m/251196806403

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by dr j View Post
                              Hey- congrats on graduation!! Welcome to the profession!

                              And for those of you who think that the vets that still recommend annual vaccines are money hungry, the Ivory tower recommended alternative as Pancakes mentions is annual titers. The cost of which make annual vax look like a Happy meal. Haven't priced it lately but last I was aware it was probably 3 times the cost of the vaccines. May have come down with more demand....but don't think it's ever going to be money-saving proposition.....just better medicine.
                              Thank you! I am so excited to start. It's so much fun!

                              I don't know how they have it worked out, but titers at our hospital is VERY reasonable. Like I said, I don't know how they made it that cheap for the client (I will find out!), but many people take the option now. Some just take the vaccine rather than risk doing the titer + vaccine higher cost.

                              But it's true that not all practices have the option of making it so cheap, maybe, so the "ideal" nowadays may be even more expensive than vaccinating every year to 3 years. Food for thought indeed, when thinking that vets are vaccinating to pad their wallets -- it's simply not true.

                              Comment


                              • #16
                                Originally posted by Pancakes View Post
                                But it's true that not all practices have the option of making it so cheap, maybe, so the "ideal" nowadays may be even more expensive than vaccinating every year to 3 years. Food for thought indeed, when thinking that vets are vaccinating to pad their wallets -- it's simply not true.
                                Are there any kind of guidelines for when it's worth it to the dog to titer vs just vaccinate? I'm wondering in particular about my parents' cocker spaniel, who is very healthy for a cocker, but does have some allergies, and seems to be getting allergic to more things as she gets older.

                                That would suggest to me that in her case, it might make sense to do a titer first so that we're not injecting her if she doesn't need to be, since she seems to have a general overall pattern of increasing sensitivity to Stuff as she ages, and might therefore be more likely to react to something in the vaccination.

                                Does that make sense? (She's not due anything until 2012 right now, anyway, so it's not a big deal at this point, so I'm just using her as an example. )

                                Comment


                                • #17
                                  Originally posted by kdow View Post
                                  Are there any kind of guidelines for when it's worth it to the dog to titer vs just vaccinate? I'm wondering in particular about my parents' cocker spaniel, who is very healthy for a cocker, but does have some allergies, and seems to be getting allergic to more things as she gets older.

                                  That would suggest to me that in her case, it might make sense to do a titer first so that we're not injecting her if she doesn't need to be, since she seems to have a general overall pattern of increasing sensitivity to Stuff as she ages, and might therefore be more likely to react to something in the vaccination.

                                  Does that make sense? (She's not due anything until 2012 right now, anyway, so it's not a big deal at this point, so I'm just using her as an example. )

                                  What sorts of sensitivities does she has? But yes, showing increasing reactions to things like allergies, immune-mediated disease, etc., are good indications for performing titers. In general, we would like to perform titers to avoid vaccination if not necessary in those animals that have already undergone an initial vaccine series (puppy/kitten + 1 yr booster). This is to reduce the incidence of vaccine-related sarcoma in cats, and to reduce the possibility of creating problems with dogs (immune-mediated thrombocytopenia, immune-mediated hemolytic anemia, etc). Many cats and dogs have immunity for more than the 3 year-interval, and some actually require immunization more frequently.
                                  Of course, Rabies vaccine should be administered yearly or every 3 years (whichever vaccine is being used), since it is required by law.

                                  Hope this helps!

                                  Comment


                                  • #18
                                    it's people like the OP (not to pick on you personally) who walk into vet's offices uneducated and let the vet do whatever without question and then just pay for it and try to figure it out later. that lets vets continue their insane over-vaccination/ over-treatment procedures. Dogs don't need yearly vaccines nor do they need yearly titers. Once the puppy shots are completed a rabies shot every three years is probably serious overkill. And no, I don't believe for a second that "overvaccination" causes health problems, I just think it's a waste of time and money.
                                    How hard is to print out the current UCDavis protocols and bring them in with you? if you have concerns about something peculiar to your dog's lifestyle, like possibly ingesting worms, why didn't you ask the vet while there?

                                    Comment


                                    • #19
                                      Originally posted by wendy View Post
                                      it's people like the OP (not to pick on you personally) who walk into vet's offices uneducated and let the vet do whatever without question and then just pay for it and try to figure it out later. that lets vets continue their insane over-vaccination/ over-treatment procedures. Dogs don't need yearly vaccines nor do they need yearly titers. Once the puppy shots are completed a rabies shot every three years is probably serious overkill. And no, I don't believe for a second that "overvaccination" causes health problems, I just think it's a waste of time and money.
                                      How hard is to print out the current UCDavis protocols and bring them in with you? if you have concerns about something peculiar to your dog's lifestyle, like possibly ingesting worms, why didn't you ask the vet while there?
                                      Forget your coffee this morning? That was a bit harsh.

                                      By the way, I've read (and been told my numerous vets) that over vaccination can cause health problems.

                                      Comment


                                      • #20
                                        It also depends on what vaccine they are using. Some vaccines are approved for one-year and others for 3-years or even 4-years. The clinic I'm working at this summer is just transitioning over to a 4-year vaccine. But the lyme & lepto vaccines are still only licensed for 1 year so good records are very important.
                                        ---------------------------
                                        University of Minnesota College of Veterinary Medicine Class of 2012
                                        Member of the Asthmatic Riders & "Someone Special To Me Serves In The Military" cliques

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