• Welcome to the Chronicle Forums.
    Please complete your profile. The forums and the rest of www.chronofhorse.com has single sign-in, so your log in information for one will automatically work for the other. Disclaimer: The opinions expressed here are the views of the individual and do not necessarily reflect the views and opinions of The Chronicle of the Horse.

Announcement

Collapse

Forum rules and no-advertising policy

As a participant on this forum, it is your responsibility to know and follow our rules. Please read this message in its entirety.

Board Rules

1. You’re responsible for what you say.
As outlined in Section 230 of the Communications Decency Act, The Chronicle of the Horse and its affiliates, as well Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd., the developers of vBulletin, are not legally responsible for statements made in the forums.

This is a public forum viewed by a wide spectrum of people, so please be mindful of what you say and who might be reading it—details of personal disputes are likely better handled privately. While posters are legally responsible for their statements, the moderators may in their discretion remove or edit posts that violate these rules. Users have the ability to modify or delete their own messages after posting, but administrators generally will not delete posts, threads or accounts upon request.

Outright inflammatory, vulgar, harassing, malicious or otherwise inappropriate statements and criminal charges unsubstantiated by a reputable news source or legal documentation will not be tolerated and will be dealt with at the discretion of the moderators.

2. Conversations in horse-related forums should be horse-related.
The forums are a wonderful source of information and support for members of the horse community. While it’s understandably tempting to share information or search for input on other topics upon which members might have a similar level of knowledge, members must maintain the focus on horses.

3. Keep conversations productive, on topic and civil.
Discussion and disagreement are inevitable and encouraged; personal insults, diatribes and sniping comments are unproductive and unacceptable. Whether a subject is light-hearted or serious, keep posts focused on the current topic and of general interest to other participants of that thread. Utilize the private message feature or personal email where appropriate to address side topics or personal issues not related to the topic at large.

4. No advertising in the discussion forums.
Posts in the discussion forums directly or indirectly advertising horses, jobs, items or services for sale or wanted will be removed at the discretion of the moderators. Use of the private messaging feature or email addresses obtained through users’ profiles for unsolicited advertising is not permitted.

Company representatives may participate in discussions and answer questions about their products or services, or suggest their products on recent threads if they fulfill the criteria of a query. False "testimonials" provided by company affiliates posing as general consumers are not appropriate, and self-promotion of sales, ad campaigns, etc. through the discussion forums is not allowed.

Paid advertising is available on our classifieds site and through the purchase of banner ads. The tightly monitored Giveaways forum permits free listings of genuinely free horses and items available or wanted (on a limited basis). Items offered for trade are not allowed.

Advertising Policy Specifics
When in doubt of whether something you want to post constitutes advertising, please contact a moderator privately in advance for further clarification. Refer to the following points for general guidelines:

Horses – Only general discussion about the buying, leasing, selling and pricing of horses is permitted. If the post contains, or links to, the type of specific information typically found in a sales or wanted ad, and it’s related to a horse for sale, regardless of who’s selling it, it doesn’t belong in the discussion forums.

Stallions – Board members may ask for suggestions on breeding stallion recommendations. Stallion owners may reply to such queries by suggesting their own stallions, only if their horse fits the specific criteria of the original poster. Excessive promotion of a stallion by its owner or related parties is not permitted and will be addressed at the discretion of the moderators.

Services – Members may use the forums to ask for general recommendations of trainers, barns, shippers, farriers, etc., and other members may answer those requests by suggesting themselves or their company, if their services fulfill the specific criteria of the original post. Members may not solicit other members for business if it is not in response to a direct, genuine query.

Products – While members may ask for general opinions and suggestions on equipment, trailers, trucks, etc., they may not list the specific attributes for which they are in the market, as such posts serve as wanted ads.

Event Announcements – Members may post one notification of an upcoming event that may be of interest to fellow members, if the original poster does not benefit financially from the event. Such threads may not be “bumped” excessively. Premium members may post their own notices in the Event Announcements forum.

Charities/Rescues – Announcements for charitable or fundraising events can only be made for 501(c)(3) tax-exempt organizations. Special exceptions may be made, at the moderators’ discretion and direction, for board-related events or fundraising activities in extraordinary circumstances.

Occasional posts regarding horses available for adoption through IRS-registered horse rescue or placement programs are permitted in the appropriate forums, but these threads may be limited at the discretion of the moderators. Individuals may not advertise or make announcements for horses in need of rescue, placement or adoption unless the horse is available through a recognized rescue or placement agency or government-run entity or the thread fits the criteria for and is located in the Giveaways forum.

5. Do not post copyrighted photographs unless you have purchased that photo and have permission to do so.

6. Respect other members.
As members are often passionate about their beliefs and intentions can easily be misinterpreted in this type of environment, try to explore or resolve the inevitable disagreements that arise in the course of threads calmly and rationally.

If you see a post that you feel violates the rules of the board, please click the “alert” button (exclamation point inside of a triangle) in the bottom left corner of the post, which will alert ONLY the moderators to the post in question. They will then take whatever action, or no action, as deemed appropriate for the situation at their discretion. Do not air grievances regarding other posters or the moderators in the discussion forums.

Please be advised that adding another user to your “Ignore” list via your User Control Panel can be a useful tactic, which blocks posts and private messages by members whose commentary you’d rather avoid reading.

7. We have the right to reproduce statements made in the forums.
The Chronicle of the Horse may copy, quote, link to or otherwise reproduce posts, or portions of posts, in print or online for advertising or editorial purposes, if attributed to their original authors, and by posting in this forum, you hereby grant to The Chronicle of the Horse a perpetual, non-exclusive license under copyright and other rights, to do so.

8. We reserve the right to enforce and amend the rules.
The moderators may delete, edit, move or close any post or thread at any time, or refrain from doing any of the foregoing, in their discretion, and may suspend or revoke a user’s membership privileges at any time to maintain adherence to the rules and the general spirit of the forum. These rules may be amended at any time to address the current needs of the board.

Please see our full Terms of Service and Privacy Policy for more information.

Thanks for being a part of the COTH forums!

(Revised 1/26/16)
See more
See less

Need your advice- Leasing a Barn

Collapse
X
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Need your advice- Leasing a Barn

    My friend and I have a great opportunity to lease a facility for a year with the option to renew for additional years. We plan to set up a small corporation and bring in 6-8 boarders. We both are tired of barn drama at our current (very large) facility and want to keep it small. What advice would give in setting this up? How would you recommend finding enough (sane) boarders to make this make sense?

  • #2
    Unfortunately my advice would be to not do it as a partnership. You're almost guranteed to lose her as a friend. I've seen it happen over and over. Make sure you do the math first before you agree to anything, figure out how much each horse will cost you in terms of bedding, hay (make sure you have a reliable hay source and figure in the cost of having to feed hay in a drought or if horses are in for long periods of time b/c of bad weather), feed, barn help, insurance, etc. Figure out how much "profit" you need to make per horse to make it worth your while before you set up your prices.

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by Duramax View Post
      Unfortunately my advice would be to not do it as a partnership. You're almost guranteed to lose her as a friend. I've seen it happen over and over. Make sure you do the math first before you agree to anything, figure out how much each horse will cost you in terms of bedding, hay (make sure you have a reliable hay source and figure in the cost of having to feed hay in a drought or if horses are in for long periods of time b/c of bad weather), feed, barn help, insurance, etc. Figure out how much "profit" you need to make per horse to make it worth your while before you set up your prices.
      ditto this
      "You can't really debate with someone who has a prescient invisible friend"
      carolprudm

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by Duramax View Post
        Unfortunately my advice would be to not do it as a partnership. You're almost guranteed to lose her as a friend. I've seen it happen over and over. Make sure you do the math first before you agree to anything, figure out how much each horse will cost you in terms of bedding, hay (make sure you have a reliable hay source and figure in the cost of having to feed hay in a drought or if horses are in for long periods of time b/c of bad weather), feed, barn help, insurance, etc. Figure out how much "profit" you need to make per horse to make it worth your while before you set up your prices.
        Ditto the ditto...

        Comment


        • #5
          Ditto the ditto the ditto. And, I've not found a barn yet that does only boarding (no lessons, training, camps, etc.) that hasn't lost money.

          Make sure you figure in ALL your costs. It's not just the hay, feed and bedding, it's repairs (unless the landlord will do all the maintenance and in a timely manner), equipment, manure disposal, electric, water, insurance, barn help, etc. Put that on top of rent and I would be surprised if you break even.

          Comment


          • #6
            Ditto ^ 4. Boarding alone does not make money. Hell, you can ALMOST generalize that ANYTHING to do with horses doesn't make money.

            Comment


            • #7
              Don't do it as a partnership. You might think that you and your friend are such good friends that it will all work out perfectly - take it from all of us who have done it and who also had those great, great, lifelong friends - don't. If you want to keep your friend then agree which one of you is going to lease the barn and then do a deal with the other one about keeping their horse there for free in return for doing x amount of work. You are unlikely to make money on boarding.

              On the surface it sounds great - wow, I can change $400 a month and feed only costs me $100/month. Some thoughts:
              - Think about utilities - water, electricity etc, your monthly lease fee, your maintenance fees - constantly broken fences, stalls etc.
              - Factor in the cost of buying your feeders, troughs.
              - Take into consideration insurance, legal costs, and what happens if someone, or more than one person doesn't pay for a month, two months, 6 months, abandons their horses altogether.
              - Do you currently have other jobs - are you planning on being there full time? If not, who is going to deal with the farrier, vets etc. When are you going to get hay ( a lot for 6 -8 horses). Who is going to blanket, unblanket etc?

              I can assure you that you are unlikely to make any money and are likely to lose a lot. It will be a great, if not very pleasant, learning exercise.

              Comment


              • #8
                Although, up to now we have only had horses in on training board, I took in one (1), yes that's one, full care boarder last year. It started out OK, he seemed to be a fairly easy keeper and kept a fairly neat stall. Then fall and winter happened. Easy keeper to hard keeper. Then I did my taxes. Water bill went up $50/month for the later summer/fall period he was here (owner gave lots of long baths. By the time I figured in the extra insurance costs, equipment cost (buckets, fan, etc) and having to build a temporary stall since we were one over (we'd been making do with a gate across the wash stall bay and moved the wash stall to outside, but it just wouldn't work for the winter) we lost $75/month. And that's just for one! Now he was a hard keeper in the winter and he was very hard on the property, stall and gate. And I haven't even factored that into the loss.

                No more boarders (only training horses)!

                Comment


                • #9
                  I can see why you would consider doing this--it is the kind of thing that on the surface sounds like a great idea. But the fact of the matter is, running a facility is a lot more complicated, time consuming and expensive than people realize. Labor, employment taxes, workman's comp, farm insurance, care/custody& control insurance, seed, taxes, repairs, equipment, utilities, and a lot of other stuff you would never even think of.

                  Also, the capital investment is huge...do you already own tools and tractors and weedeaters and spreaders and wheelbarrows and pitchforks, buckets and water tanks and so on? And once you become a business, there's all sorts of paperwork you've got to take care of--business licenses, endless tax forms, hiring paperwork, billing paperwork, etc. Going to do some of the work yourself? You will find yourself "on call" 24/7, because who else is going to take care of that suffering horse while the owner is out of town on a lovely vacation or enjoying a romantic valentine's day dinner with their SO?

                  The truth is that for the consumer, horse boarding is a bargain. You will most definitely come out financially ahead to find another facility and pay board as compared to opening your own boarding facility.

                  Comment

                  • Original Poster

                    #10
                    Thank you for all your advice! I have a few more details that may help. In spite of all the pieces that have to fall into place, I can't help but think this is a unique (but good) opportunity. The barn owner keeps her horses in a separate barn and covers all utilities, provides all of farm equipment and maintains the property. We will be responsible for hiring a groom (already have one to turn out, feed, blanket, etc.) and providing shavings, hay and feed. The owner lives onsite and does a night check and we have a trainer who will be out there from 7-11 a.m. and 5-7 p.m. and for farrier/vet visits.

                    I am hoping just to break even, but money is a concern, especially if someone doesn't pay board or leaves. I am hoping to work something out with the owner where we pay on a stall by stall basis vs. total lease up to a certain point but I am not sure if she will be interested.

                    Thoughts? Thanks again!

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Just a thought... who will be responsible to clean stalls?

                      If it is set up for self cleaning, you will probably be expected to give a price break but then have to babysit to make sure boarders actually do it.

                      If you and/or partner are cleaning, then expect to never have time to actually ride your own horses. I leased a barn for only myself and somehow managed to acquire horses that were turned over by the county AC (taken for neglect), other people who saw I "needed another horse," or "you have an open stall." Went from 2 to 8 in a matter of a year - completely my fault as I never said no, but it taught me a very valuable lesson in limitations. Cleaning 2 stalls was a breeze. Cleaning 3 stalls was tolerable, 4 started to get inconvenient. 8 stalls + care = my saddles became victims of dust and cobwebs.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Sorry to be so negative. I will also say it takes a long time to build up a clientele of good boarders. When you first open your doors all the crazy people that are always moving because they are never happy/the board is never cheap enough/they keep getting kicked out of barns will be wanting to board with you. The responsible, reasonable people that pay their bills will be reluctant to come board with you until you have been in business for a while and have built a solid reputation. It is better to have fewer boarders than to have bad boarders.

                        Getting paid is a big deal--I often feel that as a boarding barn I have less leverage than other bigger business to get paid money that is owed me. Thankfully for me, I don't rely on money from my boarding business. I also have learned to be very direct about money/billing issues with clients. Let's face it, keeping horses is very expensive. I think a lot of people don't charge nearly enough for boarding and end up subsidizing other people's horses. Do the math on absolutely everything you will be spending, and make sure you aren't doing this!

                        Sometimes having boarders can be great, I've gotten to know a lot of people. OTOH, there is a LOT of babysitting involved. People, even very nice ones who seem very experienced and responsible, can be very irresponsible where their horses are concerned. They do dumb things--leave gates open, leave their messes, and often aren't available when their horse is sick or injured. In this day and age where a lot of people have never kept their own horse at home, many people are frightfully ignorant about horse care and this means you may end up helping people manage their horses more than you anticipated. Decide ahead of time what services are included and what constitutes "extra care."

                        Comment

                        Working...
                        X