• Welcome to the Chronicle Forums.
    Please complete your profile. The forums and the rest of www.chronofhorse.com has single sign-in, so your log in information for one will automatically work for the other. Disclaimer: The opinions expressed here are the views of the individual and do not necessarily reflect the views and opinions of The Chronicle of the Horse.

Announcement

Collapse

Forum rules and no-advertising policy

As a participant on this forum, it is your responsibility to know and follow our rules. Please read this message in its entirety.

Board Rules

1. You’re responsible for what you say.
As outlined in Section 230 of the Communications Decency Act, The Chronicle of the Horse and its affiliates, as well Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd., the developers of vBulletin, are not legally responsible for statements made in the forums.

This is a public forum viewed by a wide spectrum of people, so please be mindful of what you say and who might be reading it—details of personal disputes are likely better handled privately. While posters are legally responsible for their statements, the moderators may in their discretion remove or edit posts that violate these rules. Users have the ability to modify or delete their own messages after posting, but administrators generally will not delete posts, threads or accounts upon request.

Outright inflammatory, vulgar, harassing, malicious or otherwise inappropriate statements and criminal charges unsubstantiated by a reputable news source or legal documentation will not be tolerated and will be dealt with at the discretion of the moderators.

2. Conversations in horse-related forums should be horse-related.
The forums are a wonderful source of information and support for members of the horse community. While it’s understandably tempting to share information or search for input on other topics upon which members might have a similar level of knowledge, members must maintain the focus on horses.

3. Keep conversations productive, on topic and civil.
Discussion and disagreement are inevitable and encouraged; personal insults, diatribes and sniping comments are unproductive and unacceptable. Whether a subject is light-hearted or serious, keep posts focused on the current topic and of general interest to other participants of that thread. Utilize the private message feature or personal email where appropriate to address side topics or personal issues not related to the topic at large.

4. No advertising in the discussion forums.
Posts in the discussion forums directly or indirectly advertising horses, jobs, items or services for sale or wanted will be removed at the discretion of the moderators. Use of the private messaging feature or email addresses obtained through users’ profiles for unsolicited advertising is not permitted.

Company representatives may participate in discussions and answer questions about their products or services, or suggest their products on recent threads if they fulfill the criteria of a query. False "testimonials" provided by company affiliates posing as general consumers are not appropriate, and self-promotion of sales, ad campaigns, etc. through the discussion forums is not allowed.

Paid advertising is available on our classifieds site and through the purchase of banner ads. The tightly monitored Giveaways forum permits free listings of genuinely free horses and items available or wanted (on a limited basis). Items offered for trade are not allowed.

Advertising Policy Specifics
When in doubt of whether something you want to post constitutes advertising, please contact a moderator privately in advance for further clarification. Refer to the following points for general guidelines:

Horses – Only general discussion about the buying, leasing, selling and pricing of horses is permitted. If the post contains, or links to, the type of specific information typically found in a sales or wanted ad, and it’s related to a horse for sale, regardless of who’s selling it, it doesn’t belong in the discussion forums.

Stallions – Board members may ask for suggestions on breeding stallion recommendations. Stallion owners may reply to such queries by suggesting their own stallions, only if their horse fits the specific criteria of the original poster. Excessive promotion of a stallion by its owner or related parties is not permitted and will be addressed at the discretion of the moderators.

Services – Members may use the forums to ask for general recommendations of trainers, barns, shippers, farriers, etc., and other members may answer those requests by suggesting themselves or their company, if their services fulfill the specific criteria of the original post. Members may not solicit other members for business if it is not in response to a direct, genuine query.

Products – While members may ask for general opinions and suggestions on equipment, trailers, trucks, etc., they may not list the specific attributes for which they are in the market, as such posts serve as wanted ads.

Event Announcements – Members may post one notification of an upcoming event that may be of interest to fellow members, if the original poster does not benefit financially from the event. Such threads may not be “bumped” excessively. Premium members may post their own notices in the Event Announcements forum.

Charities/Rescues – Announcements for charitable or fundraising events can only be made for 501(c)(3) tax-exempt organizations. Special exceptions may be made, at the moderators’ discretion and direction, for board-related events or fundraising activities in extraordinary circumstances.

Occasional posts regarding horses available for adoption through IRS-registered horse rescue or placement programs are permitted in the appropriate forums, but these threads may be limited at the discretion of the moderators. Individuals may not advertise or make announcements for horses in need of rescue, placement or adoption unless the horse is available through a recognized rescue or placement agency or government-run entity or the thread fits the criteria for and is located in the Giveaways forum.

5. Do not post copyrighted photographs unless you have purchased that photo and have permission to do so.

6. Respect other members.
As members are often passionate about their beliefs and intentions can easily be misinterpreted in this type of environment, try to explore or resolve the inevitable disagreements that arise in the course of threads calmly and rationally.

If you see a post that you feel violates the rules of the board, please click the “alert” button (exclamation point inside of a triangle) in the bottom left corner of the post, which will alert ONLY the moderators to the post in question. They will then take whatever action, or no action, as deemed appropriate for the situation at their discretion. Do not air grievances regarding other posters or the moderators in the discussion forums.

Please be advised that adding another user to your “Ignore” list via your User Control Panel can be a useful tactic, which blocks posts and private messages by members whose commentary you’d rather avoid reading.

7. We have the right to reproduce statements made in the forums.
The Chronicle of the Horse may copy, quote, link to or otherwise reproduce posts, or portions of posts, in print or online for advertising or editorial purposes, if attributed to their original authors, and by posting in this forum, you hereby grant to The Chronicle of the Horse a perpetual, non-exclusive license under copyright and other rights, to do so.

8. We reserve the right to enforce and amend the rules.
The moderators may delete, edit, move or close any post or thread at any time, or refrain from doing any of the foregoing, in their discretion, and may suspend or revoke a user’s membership privileges at any time to maintain adherence to the rules and the general spirit of the forum. These rules may be amended at any time to address the current needs of the board.

Please see our full Terms of Service and Privacy Policy for more information.

Thanks for being a part of the COTH forums!

(Revised 1/26/16)
See more
See less

Lyme vaccination for positive dog?

Collapse
X
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Lyme vaccination for positive dog?

    Short summary:
    My new rescue tested positive for Lymes, but was asymptomatic. We decided not to treat and start the Lyme vaccination. She is now on monthly frontline.
    About a week after the initial positive and Lyme vaccination, she became acutely symptomatic. We started her on Doxy, and she improved immediately. She is on week 3 of her 30 day treatment and is due for her second lyme vaccination this week. I'm not sure I want to vaccinate a dog who is currently being treated.
    WWYD?

    For the record...I am very conservative regarding vaccinations, and my vet is most definately not!

  • #2
    While I would suggest waiting until she's done with antibiotics, I would be inclined to vaccinate. What my experience has been is that many of the infected/affected dogs we treat will be clean (negative) on the Snap test after a year or two, but live in such high risk areas that if left unvaccinated, they will end up contracting Lyme again. So, I think her best chance for avoiding another bout would be in vaccinating. The efficacy on the updated vaccine released by Schering-Plough this year is a big improvement over the older vaccines.

    Comment


    • #3
      I don't believe anyone recommends the lyme vaccine these days for any dog.

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by wendy View Post
        I don't believe anyone recommends the lyme vaccine these days for any dog.
        I know plenty of vets who recommend this vaccine.

        Comment


        • #5
          I would question administering a vaccine to an animal that is actively fighting the disease.

          I am not a vet, but I would think based on my minimal knowledge, that you would treat, wait for the disease to be 'cured' and then vaccinate.

          I know in horses, they only recommend the vaccine(canine) for those horses who are negative. Some vets have a difficult time administering a vaccine approved for one species to another, but reports from Cornell seem to think its ok. I have 3 who are vaccinated, 5 who are not due to previous confirmed lyme, and two in the wings who will be tested and if neg, vaccinated.

          I know I digressed talking about equines, but I would think the same would hold true for canines. Except that I believe the vaccine is ok for dogs who are over lyme...Would love to hear from some small animal vets about this.
          save lives...spay/neuter/geld

          Comment


          • #6
            I live in Westchester County where ticks and Lyme is pretty prevalent. I don't vaccinate my dogs or cats against Lyme. I know a vet who vaccinated his dog and the dog one day was really sick, showed random symptoms and nothing came up positive on the titers. When the dog went into kidney failure, it was determined he had Lyme Disease. The vaccine was hiding the fact the dog should've been positive.

            Personally, I have a titer taken each year to monitor my dogs, and of course, I would also check if something seemed off. I frontline them monthly and groom regularly to check for ticks.

            Anyway, to answer your question, I take the same stance as fivehorses-I would think there should be a wait period between treatment and a vaccination. The immune system is already depressed from fighting the disease, so why risk it? Chances are he'll be fine, but why not wait? What does your vet say?

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by Equino View Post
              I live in Westchester County where ticks and Lyme is pretty prevalent. I don't vaccinate my dogs or cats against Lyme. I know a vet who vaccinated his dog and the dog one day was really sick, showed random symptoms and nothing came up positive on the titers. When the dog went into kidney failure, it was determined he had Lyme Disease. The vaccine was hiding the fact the dog should've been positive.

              Personally, I have a titer taken each year to monitor my dogs, and of course, I would also check if something seemed off. I frontline them monthly and groom regularly to check for ticks.

              Anyway, to answer your question, I take the same stance as fivehorses-I would think there should be a wait period between treatment and a vaccination. The immune system is already depressed from fighting the disease, so why risk it? Chances are he'll be fine, but why not wait? What does your vet say?
              Just a note, cats do not need to be vaccinated against Lyme, nor is the vaccine licensed for use in cats. They do not get the disease with clinical symptoms.

              I personally would vaccinate if you are in an endemic area where Lyme is prevalent. Of course, wait until the current disease state is over, and then vaccinate once healthy. There is a debate over the safety of the vaccine, but if you live in an area where re-infection is likely and the risks of getting clinical disease again and again outweighs the risks of a rare vaccine reaction, then I would vaccinate.

              Comment

              • Original Poster

                #8
                Thanks for the replies. She was due to go in yesterday for Lyme vaccination, but I decided to wait a couple of weeks before getting her second dose. The vet didn't think it would be a problem getting the vaccination, but I felt more comfortable getting her through the treatment first.

                Comment


                • #9
                  The only problem is (based on my understanding), the 2nd booster has to be given 2-4 weeks after the first shot. So, you might be out of that window and have to restart the vaccine series. Still, a small price to pay for your comfort.

                  Edited to fix timeline after doing more vaccine research (see my next post)
                  Last edited by Ben and Me; Dec. 5, 2009, 12:17 AM.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Quote:
                    Originally Posted by wendy
                    I don't believe anyone recommends the lyme vaccine these days for any dog.

                    I know plenty of vets who recommend this vaccine.
                    {/unqote]}

                    individual vets, like individual doctors, are often uninformed idiots. There IS NO single organization that suggests using lyme vaccines- quite the opposite in fact. Vaccinating dogs against lyme is not suggested by any organization because the possible side effects outweigh any possible benefit. And I live in Lyme disease central. No one here vaccinates their dogs against it because it doesn't work, and makes it impossible to tell if your dogs symptoms are caused by it.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Pancakes View Post
                      Just a note, cats do not need to be vaccinated against Lyme, nor is the vaccine licensed for use in cats. They do not get the disease with clinical symptoms.
                      I know, but people have asked me before why I don't vaccinate my barn cats against Lyme Disease.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        what Wendy said..... and also, there are a few veterinarians who just like to get the extra income generated by useless vaccinations.
                        Siegi Belz
                        www.stalleuropa.com
                        2007 KWPN-NA Breeder of the Year
                        Dutch Warmbloods Made in the U. S. A.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by wendy View Post
                          Quote:
                          Originally Posted by wendy
                          I don't believe anyone recommends the lyme vaccine these days for any dog.

                          I know plenty of vets who recommend this vaccine.
                          {/unqote]}

                          individual vets, like individual doctors, are often uninformed idiots. There IS NO single organization that suggests using lyme vaccines- quite the opposite in fact. Vaccinating dogs against lyme is not suggested by any organization because the possible side effects outweigh any possible benefit. And I live in Lyme disease central. No one here vaccinates their dogs against it because it doesn't work, and makes it impossible to tell if your dogs symptoms are caused by it.
                          HUH??? I live in NH, lyme is prevalent. my dogs are snap tested every year, and also given the vaccine.

                          Can you site your source showing that the vaccine is ineffective, dangerous(aside from the normal issues with all vaccines) and that if you vaccinate, you cannot tell if a dog is infected or not?
                          thanks.
                          save lives...spay/neuter/geld

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            I would not vaccinate against Lyme and I have had two dogs who did test positive and who were treated with Doxy. Both fine and are seven years old. I do not do yearly vaccinations and "many veterinarians recommend them as well". I do SNAP test once a year for heartworm, erhlichia and Lyme.

                            No incontrovertible evidence that proves to me they need to be introduced to such a peculiar pathogen as Lyme. After their initial puppy shots, and their first yearly booster, other than rabies I do not vaccinate. My dogs do not go to a kennel, doggie yards or competitions, I see no need. My beagle who lived for fifteen years died of a tumor that was strangulating the nerve bundles over his shoulders (vaccination site). Otherwise he was in perfect health and would have lived longer.

                            A friend of mine who had a female dalmation in another Lyme hotbed of Northern Virginia would vaccinate her dog for Lyme yearly, she would come down with the disease every year or so, so what was the point and how efficacious was this, poor dog never had a chance to mount a credible defense against the disease. The whole debate of our unfounded belief in yearly vaccinations is way behind the curve or there would be more of an effort to make titer tests more affordable and more discussion about nutrition and how to boost the immune system and not one system fits all approach to vaccinations in general.
                            "We, too, will be remembered not for victories or defeats in battle or in politics, but for our contribution to the human spirit." JFK

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by wendy View Post
                              Quote:
                              Originally Posted by wendy
                              I don't believe anyone recommends the lyme vaccine these days for any dog.

                              I know plenty of vets who recommend this vaccine.
                              {/unqote]}

                              individual vets, like individual doctors, are often uninformed idiots. There IS NO single organization that suggests using lyme vaccines- quite the opposite in fact. Vaccinating dogs against lyme is not suggested by any organization because the possible side effects outweigh any possible benefit. And I live in Lyme disease central. No one here vaccinates their dogs against it because it doesn't work, and makes it impossible to tell if your dogs symptoms are caused by it.
                              Client handout from VIN's partner site re: Lyme and pros and cons of vaccinating.

                              http://www.VeterinaryPartner.com/Content.plx?P=A&A=1588

                              You are correct, but also misleading: there is not a single reputable organization that I can find that lists Lyme as one of the core vaccines (unlike Distemper, Parvo and Rabies, for example). However, it is listed as a non-core vaccine, and the latest (that I can find at the moment) AAHA recommendations are at this link. The AVMA also lists Lyme as a non-core vaccination. http://www.aahanet.org/PublicDocumen...s06Revised.pdf Non core vaccines are recommended on a case-by-case basis, depending on geographic location, lifestyle, etc.

                              As you can see, there are also 2 vaccines that are listed as non-recommended: coronavirus and giardia. Lyme is listed as a non-core, NOT non-recommended.

                              I trust the veterinarians that I worked for, and since they recommended the vaccine for my dog (at a financial loss to them, since I received a substantial discount while working there), my dog has been vaccinated. Since we now live in Philadelphia, I can state with certainty that there is, in fact, at least 1 person in your area that vaccinates against Lyme.

                              As the above client handout points out, as well, not all Lyme vaccines are created equal. My dog received the RecombiTEK vaccine.

                              Comment


                              • #16
                                To the OP:

                                Vaccine prevents infection in dogs vaccinated before any exposure to Lyme spirochetes. This means it is only helpful for dogs not yet exposed, such as puppies and dogs from non-endemic areas traveling to endemic areas.
                                I would be most concerned about the above quote from the client handout. You may want to ask your vet about it. I was not aware of this until just now.

                                There is still a lot of research to be done re: tick born diseases. I think in the future we'll realize that some of these cases that we're clumping together under the "Lyme" umbrella are probably caused by a different tick-born pathogen.

                                My theory about the vaccine is that my dog didn't have a reaction, and doesn't seem to be suffering any ill effects. For $30/year, I can live with that.

                                Ultimately, in spite of all the very strong opinions, I know we all want what's best for our dogs. I hope that in the future, we'll have a clearer answer.

                                Comment


                                • #17
                                  Originally posted by wendy View Post
                                  Quote:
                                  Originally Posted by wendy
                                  I don't believe anyone recommends the lyme vaccine these days for any dog.

                                  I know plenty of vets who recommend this vaccine.
                                  {/unqote]}

                                  individual vets, like individual doctors, are often uninformed idiots. There IS NO single organization that suggests using lyme vaccines- quite the opposite in fact. Vaccinating dogs against lyme is not suggested by any organization because the possible side effects outweigh any possible benefit. And I live in Lyme disease central. No one here vaccinates their dogs against it because it doesn't work, and makes it impossible to tell if your dogs symptoms are caused by it.
                                  It is a controversial topic, and there is not one consensus statement because there is no clear answer; there is much evidence both for and against vaccination, given a certain set of circumstances. This does not make veterinarians who advocate the vaccine idiots, nor does it make them uninformed. It also doesn't make you the authority. If you do a lot of reviewing of the literature you will understand why there is no clear cut answer.

                                  Comment


                                  • #18
                                    The snap tests are just screening tests. If you live in a Lyme-endemic area, and your dog tests positive on the snap test, I don't really give it much merit. It just means your dog has been exposed. Your dog could be 100% fine and test positive. If your dog is acting like it has Lyme, tests positive on snap, then it might be worth further testing (Lyme C6 quant) to determine if the Lyme is active, or if it is another disease. However, if the snap is negative, then there truly has been no exposure to Lyme.

                                    And re: income with vaccinations. Vaccinations do NOT make up a significant part of a veterinarian's income. It won't make a difference one way or the other encouraging a non-core such as Lyme.

                                    Comment


                                    • #19
                                      A positive SNAP test is not diagnostic for Lyme. It's a less expensive and more quickly available screening test like Pancakes said. If you have a dog with apositive and symptoms you can start doxy while waiting on the Lyme C6 quant, which is a far more definitive diagnostic tool.

                                      And re: reccomending vaccinations as a revenue booster, we are in a non-endemic area but have a lot of clients that travel frequently to the NE coast. We do reccomend that they vaccinate their dogs to prevent disease. By doing so, and making sure we have the vaccine on hand for them we actually lose money, because we buy 25 vaccines and throw out about 15 for expiring before we use them.

                                      To me, vaccinating for Lyme is like vaccinating for Lepto. It is a higher risk vaccine with less effiacy so the risks must really outweigh the benefits. If that's the case can only be determined by an educated client and a vet they trust.

                                      Katherine
                                      Vet Tech
                                      You can't fix stupid.... but you can breed it!

                                      Comment

                                      Working...
                                      X