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Neighbor's big hungry dogs chasing horses.... WWYD? Update P 4

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  • Neighbor's big hungry dogs chasing horses.... WWYD? Update P 4

    :Sigh:
    The dogs haven't been fed in a long time. They sleep in the road. I let the owners know that during one particular night, we found them in the road, and amazingly they were still alive. The owner said they are the inlaws, oh well, and left them outside, unfenced.

    They are 2 Akbash's. Supposed to be LGD's, I guess, but they won't come within 50 feet of people, even with food. I think they ate the sheep they were supposed to guard. They live on rabbits, road kill.... whatever they can get.

    The first time they wandered into the horse paddocks, my LGD breed dog chased them out.
    The second time, the horses went to go chase them out. The dogs turned on the horses. But 5 horses were no fight for 2 dogs. So the dogs fought and bite at the horses through the fence until I went out there and chased the dogs off.

    I demanded the humane society do something that day. Animal control issued numerous citations, and warned me NOT to approach the owner without a few men or a deputy with me.... he gave the ACO a very hard time and was 'quite the character'

    The dogs are gone for 2 months. DH feels bad they are probably PTS at the shelter. We don't turn our horses out in the big field unless we are home to watch for them.

    But then, back they came again today. Twice (humane society didn't show after the first call). Circling, growling at horses, when the horses go to chase them they come in from behind the horse. We're right there- and chase them out.

    Animal control officer tells me to shoot them and call the sheriff's deputy right away for my safety. My main concern is retaliation by the dog's owners- an eye for an eye... and our property is flat and you could pluck off most of our dogs and horses from the road. The ACO is preparing a formal case (I got pictures for him this time) and plans on heading to the dog's owner's home tomorrow, with another ACO and a sheriff's deputy to file charges.

    What can I do? No climb fence.... I'd need 3500 feet of it (around $5K without posts). I'm putting up some within a few acres of the house, but can't afford to perimeter fence no-climb everything right now. Do I just shoot them the next time I see them, instead of having one of our horses get hurt? It's completely legal and recommended here... but I've never shot anything and don't want to hurt an animal, but, I can not continue to let my horse's safety be jeopardized even for a moment. And I should be able to turn my horses out when I am not constantly watching for loose dogs. Any suggestions?

    ACO recommends I try to catch the dogs. I guess I could try to bait them in and TQ them- and the owner could have to reclaim them at the humane society, which would cost money that I doubt the owners have. There is no hope of catching the dogs loose- much too skittish. The dogs aren't predictable in the times or days they come.
    Last edited by FatPalomino; Nov. 17, 2009, 10:55 AM.

  • #2
    Either trap them and have AC pick them up or shoot shovel and shut up.

    Comment


    • #3
      My brother has wide electric tape running along the top, middle and bottom of his board fencing. Not only does it keep the dogs and coyotes out, it also keeps the bears out too. You'll have to run a pretty strong current and not just a pinching current, but you will have greater piece of mind. The other suggestion is to get either a mustang or a very large jack donkey. They hate dogs.
      "The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits." Albert Einstein

      http://s1098.photobucket.com/albums/...2011%20Photos/

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      • #4
        Appropriate weapon always at the ready.

        S-S-S
        <>< Sorrow Looks Back. Worry Looks Around. Faith Looks Up! -- Being negative only makes a difficult journey more difficult. You may be given a cactus, but you don't have to sit on it.

        Comment


        • #5
          Keep after the ACOs

          I would let/make them do their job. I wouldn't want to get into the retaliation thing with the neighbor. We had a similar problem with a neighbor's dog aggressive dogs digging under our no climb perimeter. Finally resolved it in court and by burying barbed wire under the fence lines. I really do sympathize with you, it's so aggravating on a daily basis, you deserve peace and tranguility on your own property.

          Comment


          • #6
            ditto on fourmares. Should have done it long ago when you noticed they were hungry.
            Even duct tape can't fix stupid

            Comment


            • #7
              Neighbor has been warned already. Dogs are on your property endangering your livestock, you have every right to shoot them and not feel sorry about it. Have done it myself and will do it again with no guilt if need be.

              Comment


              • #8
                SSS

                Too bad you can't shoot the owners. Sounds like they're the ones who need a bullet. Poor dogs - but I'd rather you shoot them then the poor things starve, get hit by a car -or harm your horses.

                Sorry you're having to deal with that.
                Brothers and sisters, I bid you beware
                Of giving your heart to a dog to tear.
                -Rudyard Kipling

                Comment


                • #9
                  I think the trick to the S-S-S method is the "shut up" part. If these dogs are truly roaming loose all over the country, who's to say that YOU were responsible if only 2 of the 3 dogs come home one night? Just don't miss and send one home with a bullet in it. If you're not a marksman, borrow someone who is.

                  I'm normally not an SSS type person, but these dogs sound like they have a terrible life and are a true menace to everyone around them. Sounds like they'd be better off at the Rainbow Bridge.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    FP-I would hate to have this problem, and especially with the possible threats from the owner. The problem with no-climb is just as others have said, they could dig under or even go over. It sucks that people treat animals like this, but it's time to trap them. IF they disappear the idiot 'owner' will know what happened, or blame you anyway. So I would SSS, and definitely do the third S-and never hint about what happened. After all, the neighbor can't prove anything unless he sees it. Plus, many unfortunate accidents happen to animals that roam, especially in rural places and he has no proof. I wonder why AC hasn't removed them and put them down if they are so unsocialized? But if the fool keeps getting them out of the pound, then I guess AC can't do anything more right now. Watch out for the 'neighbor' after the visit from the AC and cops. I hope your property is properly posted for trespassing charges if necessary? And if you see this loser coming near call 911 immediately-no warnings, no exceptions.
                    You can't fix stupid-Ron White

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      I am so sorry this is happening to you. This is why the few times that I've had a problem with someones wandering dog I'll make a mention of the dog, not a fuss, to gauge their reaction. If they are like your irresponsible neighbor the offending dogs are dispatched however I see fit. The key is to take action before the dogs owner assumes the role of "victim" and makes you have to look over your shoulder.

                      In the situation you describe at this point I would keep AC and/or the sheriff active so they can deal with the owner per your county laws.

                      And the dogs will get more aggressive so be on guard. A client brought 4 of his dogs to the clinic yesterday. Three of them were 2 year old litter mates that they had never been able to find a home for so they became big "farm dogs". The oldest, not one of the litter mates, lost 2/3'eds of his tail to the other 3 dogs in a fight on Sunday. Surgery to repair the tail will happen today. The other 3 were put to sleep.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Not a good situation. We have too many free roaming dogs around my place, but so far no horse runners. However, my neighbor adopted a blue heeler bitch and he gleefully told us that heelers love to jump up and grab a horse's tail...and hang on...(!). My husband told him that would only happen ONE time to any of our horses and the guy said, "oh no, they do it again and again" - COMPLETELY missing the point of hubby's comment. I love dogs, but I get a rather different perspective when my horses are endangered by them. Good luck in working through your situation.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Oh dear, what a horrid situation. These dogs are clearly confused as to their role in life. I also have 2 LGDs and, as you will know as you have them too, LGDs do require constant input from their owners. I cannot in a million years imagine my Akbash or Maremma acting in the manner you are describing, but that is because they are both very well socialised with humans and they are very clear about what their job is. They know their territory and it's very rare that they leave it; the only time they will go outwith their territory is if a "threat" is unwilling to just leave when they tell it. In situations like this, they will push that animal further from our property than they normally would if the animal were just to leave the moment our dogs are locked on to them. However, once they are satisfied that the prowler has gone, they will return immediately. Thankfully my neighbours all love my LGDs because they all have small dogs and they tell me that they feel their little dogs are safer with my big girls guarding the whole perimeter of my farm (which in turn helps keep coyotes from going close to their farmsteads).

                          Now as to what I would do in your situation, well it's tough. Owning good LGDs does make you kinda sympathetic to other LGDs who do not have such clear instruction on what is required from them. Because of this, I personally could not kill one. They are such amazing and unique dogs that my pity would be for them having totally incapable owners.

                          The best scenario I can envisage would be for the AC to rehome these dogs into a working environment with someone who knows and understands them. So I think if I was in your situation I would be pushing like mad to try to get AC to take over ownership of them. In the interim I think I would put up electric fencing around the perimeter. I used this initially when I had my first LGD as a pup who had a little difficulty understanding where her territory ended. It worked very well indeed and didn't cost much to do. Mind you I only had to electrify our Northern boundary fence as we own everything to the South, East and West of us, so she'd have to go a very long way to go off our property in those directions. Of course in your position this only deals with one symptom and not the cause. You want these dogs gone and for me, the way I would go about it would be to up the level of demands made on AC. The louder you shout, the more chance you have of them finally doing something.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Cloverbarley View Post
                            Oh dear, what a horrid situation. These dogs are clearly confused as to their role in life. I also have 2 LGDs and, as you will know as you have them too, LGDs do require constant input from their owners. I cannot in a million years imagine my Akbash or Maremma acting in the manner you are describing, but that is because they are both very well socialised with humans and they are very clear about what their job is. They know their territory and it's very rare that they leave it; the only time they will go outwith their territory is if a "threat" is unwilling to just leave when they tell it. In situations like this, they will push that animal further from our property than they normally would if the animal were just to leave the moment our dogs are locked on to them. However, once they are satisfied that the prowler has gone, they will return immediately. Thankfully my neighbours all love my LGDs because they all have small dogs and they tell me that they feel their little dogs are safer with my big girls guarding the whole perimeter of my farm (which in turn helps keep coyotes from going close to their farmsteads).

                            Now as to what I would do in your situation, well it's tough. Owning good LGDs does make you kinda sympathetic to other LGDs who do not have such clear instruction on what is required from them. Because of this, I personally could not kill one. They are such amazing and unique dogs that my pity would be for them having totally incapable owners.

                            The best scenario I can envisage would be for the AC to rehome these dogs into a working environment with someone who knows and understands them. So I think if I was in your situation I would be pushing like mad to try to get AC to take over ownership of them. In the interim I think I would put up electric fencing around the perimeter. I used this initially when I had my first LGD as a pup who had a little difficulty understanding where her territory ended. It worked very well indeed and didn't cost much to do. Mind you I only had to electrify our Northern boundary fence as we own everything to the South, East and West of us, so she'd have to go a very long way to go off our property in those directions. Of course in your position this only deals with one symptom and not the cause. You want these dogs gone and for me, the way I would go about it would be to up the level of demands made on AC. The louder you shout, the more chance you have of them finally doing something.
                            If the AC where you live does things like this, then animals that wind up in their custody are far more fortunate than they would be if my local AC had them. Most Animal Control facilities don't have the resources or funds to rehab LGDs that have gone feral, and the dogs will be PTS.

                            And I'm not sure I'd want one that has had a history of killing and eating what it's supposed to protect.

                            I agree 100% that you need to consider your horses first. But I have plenty of sympathy for the dogs, and plenty of disgust for the asshat humans who did this to them. People suck so hard sometimes.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Mara View Post
                              If the AC where you live does things like this, then animals that wind up in their custody are far more fortunate than they would be if my local AC had them. Most Animal Control facilities don't have the resources or funds to rehab LGDs that have gone feral, and the dogs will be PTS.
                              They do where I live, but to be perfectly honest I'm not sure it really is in the best interests of the dogs, mainly because they take them and palm them off onto rescue/adoption sites who generally don't know much about these types of dogs and therefore they often get adopted back into the same unsuitable situations. Where I live there are a lot of LGDs in adoption centres and that's why whenever anyone goes on about my dogs and starts talking about getting one I stop them in their tracks and tell them all the undesirable things about them, in the hope that common sense will prevail and they will realise that these dogs simply do not belong in the normal average household.

                              And I'm not sure I'd want one that has had a history of killing and eating what it's supposed to protect.
                              Thankfully I've never met one like that, but yes you're right, not exactly the sort of "protector" anyone would want.

                              Comment


                              • #16
                                S-S-S... Use a large enough caliber gun and don't miss. Nothing pisses off a crazy neighbor worse than one of their roaming dogs coming home with a .22 bullet lodged in their skull. And that was at 15 feet. So when dealing with big dogs, bigger is better.
                                Life is what happens while you are busy making other plans

                                Comment


                                • #17
                                  HOT WIRE

                                  and a really strong charger. They will only hit it once. An expense for you, but a lot cheaper than a vet bill, and no hassle with the dogs owners.

                                  Comment


                                  • #18
                                    If you don't want to shoot them, which would be understandable, then get tranqualizers from the vet, and put in chunks of raw meat. Put the meat wherever they frequent, then just keep an eye out for them. Once they are sedated called ACO to come get them. My guess is they haven't taken them yet because they couldn't catch them, and are not allowed to shoot them if they are not currently injuring human or livestock. Just make sure you get enough tranq to get them pretty pliable.

                                    Comment

                                    • Original Poster

                                      #19
                                      SSS- I am in right and totally legal to shoot the dogs that are chasing horses in my pasture... why not involve the sheriff? So that the owner's don't know who did it? There's only a few farms around here, and said owner could see his dogs chasing my horses form his house....

                                      I have heard of shooting with bird shot. It won't kill but will send a clear notice to the owner and the dogs... ideas on that?

                                      Electric is a good idea- but I won't get it up around 4000' feet before the snow hits tonight. We'll have snow and horrible winds for the next few days.

                                      We have a mustang. He does great with our dogs, but hates the Akbash's. He is the first one to see them, and him and the (small) 3 y.o. go to chase them out right away. That's when the problems start. The dogs will then just get on the other side of the fence and torment the horses, barking, jumping, biting at their faces and legs, that the horses try kicking and wanting to run through the fence. The dogs live next to horses- but those horses are in smaller areas, are lethargic/thin (dude ranch horses getting weight back on) and I haven't seen the dogs going after them, I guess, because the horse's don't give chase.

                                      I stop the chase right away- AC is at least 15 minutes away but usually 1/2 hour.

                                      When my horses are close to the barn, the dogs are so nervous about people they haven't ventured this close. But I think, it's only a matter of time.

                                      I have to check with ACO about the TQ and bait technique. I believe as long as I'm very careful (i.e. watch the bait and pull it up so no wildlife can get it), I'm ok to do so on my property.

                                      I *think* ACO can not pick them up because they have not found them as "strays". When chased, the dogs eventually go back home... where the ACO can not claim they are strays. They are very hard to get near, and the more timid one is not a candidate for adoption with major rehab.

                                      I am quite the hard ass with the humane society. They do try very routinely NOT to do their job. They know my name, and they quickly learned not to try to pull a fast one on me. I'm personal friends with the sheriff, and that goes a lot way around here (BTW, our sheriff's is the one handling the Balloon Boy Saga!)

                                      When I went to the owner's the night I found the dogs in the road, I asked several times if they'd like to give me the dogs. Maybe someone should go back and see if that will work. The outcome for the dogs will be the same either way. I've rehabbed and adopted out plenty of dogs but dogs that have learned to kill are just not safe... and there are so many dogs out there needing homes.

                                      Comment


                                      • #20
                                        My Experience

                                        SHOOT THEM!
                                        I know that sounds horrible, but they could very seriously injury your horses.

                                        My horse was attacked in a pasture by a lesson student's pitbull that was visiting the barn I boarded at. The dog didn't just bit at my horse's legs, it went for her neck! I was furious, and I ended up going to court over the matter. My horse had to have stitches in three locations, and was very scared of dogs for several months. Two other horses were also injured before my trainer, NOT the dog's owner, pulled the dog off of the horses. My horse fought back and the dog was so badly injured that the vet wanted to put it down, but the crazy owner kept it on life support. I called the sheriff and the had a formal investigation done. We went to court, and I got my vet bills covered and money to compensate all the extra time and mileage I had to spend going to the barn to care for the injuries, but it wasn't worth the emotional pain for me and the physical/mental injuries for my horse.

                                        If I had been there when it happened I would have shot the dog, especially if I knew the amount of trouble that would follow.

                                        What if the dogs chase and bite a child???

                                        The dog in my case had killed a goat the previous spring, and should have been destroyed, but the owner was crazy and paid the goat owner to keep quiet. Damn dog is still alive...Should be dead....
                                        Foaling Around www.facebook.com/foalingaround
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