• Welcome to the Chronicle Forums.
    Please complete your profile. The forums and the rest of www.chronofhorse.com has single sign-in, so your log in information for one will automatically work for the other. Disclaimer: The opinions expressed here are the views of the individual and do not necessarily reflect the views and opinions of The Chronicle of the Horse.

Announcement

Collapse

Forum rules and no-advertising policy

As a participant on this forum, it is your responsibility to know and follow our rules. Please read this message in its entirety.

Board Rules

1. You’re responsible for what you say.
As outlined in Section 230 of the Communications Decency Act, The Chronicle of the Horse and its affiliates, as well Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd., the developers of vBulletin, are not legally responsible for statements made in the forums.

This is a public forum viewed by a wide spectrum of people, so please be mindful of what you say and who might be reading it—details of personal disputes are likely better handled privately. While posters are legally responsible for their statements, the moderators may in their discretion remove or edit posts that violate these rules. Users have the ability to modify or delete their own messages after posting, but administrators generally will not delete posts, threads or accounts upon request.

Outright inflammatory, vulgar, harassing, malicious or otherwise inappropriate statements and criminal charges unsubstantiated by a reputable news source or legal documentation will not be tolerated and will be dealt with at the discretion of the moderators.

2. Conversations in horse-related forums should be horse-related.
The forums are a wonderful source of information and support for members of the horse community. While it’s understandably tempting to share information or search for input on other topics upon which members might have a similar level of knowledge, members must maintain the focus on horses.

3. Keep conversations productive, on topic and civil.
Discussion and disagreement are inevitable and encouraged; personal insults, diatribes and sniping comments are unproductive and unacceptable. Whether a subject is light-hearted or serious, keep posts focused on the current topic and of general interest to other participants of that thread. Utilize the private message feature or personal email where appropriate to address side topics or personal issues not related to the topic at large.

4. No advertising in the discussion forums.
Posts in the discussion forums directly or indirectly advertising horses, jobs, items or services for sale or wanted will be removed at the discretion of the moderators. Use of the private messaging feature or email addresses obtained through users’ profiles for unsolicited advertising is not permitted.

Company representatives may participate in discussions and answer questions about their products or services, or suggest their products on recent threads if they fulfill the criteria of a query. False "testimonials" provided by company affiliates posing as general consumers are not appropriate, and self-promotion of sales, ad campaigns, etc. through the discussion forums is not allowed.

Paid advertising is available on our classifieds site and through the purchase of banner ads. The tightly monitored Giveaways forum permits free listings of genuinely free horses and items available or wanted (on a limited basis). Items offered for trade are not allowed.

Advertising Policy Specifics
When in doubt of whether something you want to post constitutes advertising, please contact a moderator privately in advance for further clarification. Refer to the following points for general guidelines:

Horses – Only general discussion about the buying, leasing, selling and pricing of horses is permitted. If the post contains, or links to, the type of specific information typically found in a sales or wanted ad, and it’s related to a horse for sale, regardless of who’s selling it, it doesn’t belong in the discussion forums.

Stallions – Board members may ask for suggestions on breeding stallion recommendations. Stallion owners may reply to such queries by suggesting their own stallions, only if their horse fits the specific criteria of the original poster. Excessive promotion of a stallion by its owner or related parties is not permitted and will be addressed at the discretion of the moderators.

Services – Members may use the forums to ask for general recommendations of trainers, barns, shippers, farriers, etc., and other members may answer those requests by suggesting themselves or their company, if their services fulfill the specific criteria of the original post. Members may not solicit other members for business if it is not in response to a direct, genuine query.

Products – While members may ask for general opinions and suggestions on equipment, trailers, trucks, etc., they may not list the specific attributes for which they are in the market, as such posts serve as wanted ads.

Event Announcements – Members may post one notification of an upcoming event that may be of interest to fellow members, if the original poster does not benefit financially from the event. Such threads may not be “bumped” excessively. Premium members may post their own notices in the Event Announcements forum.

Charities/Rescues – Announcements for charitable or fundraising events can only be made for 501(c)(3) tax-exempt organizations. Special exceptions may be made, at the moderators’ discretion and direction, for board-related events or fundraising activities in extraordinary circumstances.

Occasional posts regarding horses available for adoption through IRS-registered horse rescue or placement programs are permitted in the appropriate forums, but these threads may be limited at the discretion of the moderators. Individuals may not advertise or make announcements for horses in need of rescue, placement or adoption unless the horse is available through a recognized rescue or placement agency or government-run entity or the thread fits the criteria for and is located in the Giveaways forum.

5. Do not post copyrighted photographs unless you have purchased that photo and have permission to do so.

6. Respect other members.
As members are often passionate about their beliefs and intentions can easily be misinterpreted in this type of environment, try to explore or resolve the inevitable disagreements that arise in the course of threads calmly and rationally.

If you see a post that you feel violates the rules of the board, please click the “alert” button (exclamation point inside of a triangle) in the bottom left corner of the post, which will alert ONLY the moderators to the post in question. They will then take whatever action, or no action, as deemed appropriate for the situation at their discretion. Do not air grievances regarding other posters or the moderators in the discussion forums.

Please be advised that adding another user to your “Ignore” list via your User Control Panel can be a useful tactic, which blocks posts and private messages by members whose commentary you’d rather avoid reading.

7. We have the right to reproduce statements made in the forums.
The Chronicle of the Horse may copy, quote, link to or otherwise reproduce posts, or portions of posts, in print or online for advertising or editorial purposes, if attributed to their original authors, and by posting in this forum, you hereby grant to The Chronicle of the Horse a perpetual, non-exclusive license under copyright and other rights, to do so.

8. We reserve the right to enforce and amend the rules.
The moderators may delete, edit, move or close any post or thread at any time, or refrain from doing any of the foregoing, in their discretion, and may suspend or revoke a user’s membership privileges at any time to maintain adherence to the rules and the general spirit of the forum. These rules may be amended at any time to address the current needs of the board.

Please see our full Terms of Service and Privacy Policy for more information.

Thanks for being a part of the COTH forums!

(Revised 1/26/16)
See more
See less

Neighbor's child wandering into pasture? Liability?

Collapse
X
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Neighbor's child wandering into pasture? Liability?

    I've put bigger and more difficult locks on the gates, and the 5-yo child still gets thru. I found her today just standing in the pasture. She said she squeezed thru the gate, and then started screaming when I told her she needed to go home.

    The actual issue is a bit complicated, and I don't want to go into much more detail than that. Short of calling child services, what else can I do? I'm not sure how much tighter I can get my gates to latch without them being just impossible to open. I have all the proper signs posted as per my state. I've asked the adults repeatedly not to allow the child into my yard because of the horses, and I send her home when I do find her.

    I just really don't want to end up getting sued if something happens to her.

  • #2
    Sorry, but it does sound as if it is time for a call to child protective services.

    The parents are clearly not attending to the safety of their child and you (and the child) run the risk of paying dearly if your horse decides s/he doesn't want company some day.
    Nevertheless, she persisted.

    Comment


    • #3
      Why can't you put child proof locks on your gates or electric fence tape and perhaps suggest she calls to see you BEFORE she goes in.

      Comment


      • #4
        Okaaaay, I'll treat this as how to keep an animal out. Little kids can squeeze through amazingly narrow spaces if they just turn sideways. They don't have to mess with the latch if you have say 6" of space between the gate and the post. You may have to nail a 2x4 or even a 4x4 to the post in such a way that the latch won't be affected but the opening is narrower. If she is squeezing between the bars on a gate then you need to investigate lining the gate with no-climb or some other mesh. If you have electric fence or board fence you'll be out of luck, and may have to involve authorities.
        I did that when I was that age, got up at the crack of dawn and visited the neighbor horses in my pj's. Luckily for me the horses belonged to my babysitter and she found me feeding them mudpies, put me up on her shoulders and "cantered" me home. It just worked out well for me and I understood not to go back. If I had been more headstrong and less supervised it would have taken serious threats and that is never fun, for anybody.
        Courageous Weenie Eventer Wannabe
        Incredible Invisible

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by RainyDayRide View Post
          Sorry, but it does sound as if it is time for a call to child protective services.

          The parents are clearly not attending to the safety of their child and you (and the child) run the risk of paying dearly if your horse decides s/he doesn't want company some day.
          I'd have to agree, especially as it sounds like she's a repeat visitor, and you've already tried to get the parents involved, to no avail.

          Would it increase or decrease your future liabilty if her trespassing tendencies are documented by the authorities? That might be a good question for a lawyer.

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by Hampton Bay View Post
            I've asked the adults repeatedly not to allow the child into my yard because of the horses, and I send her home when I do find her.
            What about giving the adults WRITTEN notice that you will call child protective services the next time she comes over unattended? Sadly, that may be the nicest thing you could do - not to only protect her from the horses but from someone who may not send her home.

            Recently, in our neck of the woods, there was a little little girl that went missing walking home from school and was found to have been murdered. Very, very awful.

            Comment


            • #7
              Watch out for the "attractive nuisance laws" in your state.

              I agree that you should call DFACS as it is called here (child protective services).

              If your animals hurt the child accidentally, you might be sued...........whether or not you win or lose, it's emotionally and financially exhausting.
              Make sure your ins. policy is up to date.
              Put in writing to the child's parents that their child is not to enter your property without your permission. Make sure both parents get the letter.

              Now, without knowing what the unspecified issues are, can you maybe work with his child so she only comes over when you will let her pet the animals?

              Bonus points if you can get videos and audios of the child coming onto your property and of you taking child back to parents and telling them not to let child come over again. You do have to be proactive, enforcing fence and gate locks, no climb fencing, etc., to protect yourself from lawsuit.

              Go read kookicat's "child in my pasture" thread. It is entertaining and informative, the UK version.

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by Come Shine View Post
                Sadly, that may be the nicest thing you could do - not to only protect her from the horses but from someone who may not send her home.

                Recently, in our neck of the woods, there was a little little girl that went missing walking home from school and was found to have been murdered. Very, very awful.
                Ugh. How horrible. I never would have thought of that, but it's too true.

                Comment


                • #9
                  I would call the police next time, and have them report it to CPS. That way you have a paper trail. I wouldn't ever allow the child on my property by invitation either, or the parents (and their lawyer) will claim that she had your permission. It would be your word against theirs, and you will lose. I would also see this as a chance to check my insurance coverage and update if necessary. Plus, the kid doesn't have to get injured by an animal to get you sued-if she trips and gets a broken arm you're toast too-to the tune of a lot of money. Parents who don't properly raise and supervise their child are the first to sue you a$$ off. In today's legal climate I would call the cops anytime I see the child on your property, and document everything as Cloudy says. I find it appalling that a parent with half a brain allows their child to go on a stranger's property unsupervised-you just never know who someone is, or what their visitors may be like. It certainly isn't the world we grew up in, but it's the world we have to live with now.
                  You can't fix stupid-Ron White

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    C&C is right - such things as swimming pools, ponds, horses, etc. are an attraction to children and it is your responsibility to keep them out. You might have a geriatric Shetland, or a raging stallion - same rules. You are, and should, take it seriously.

                    How old is the child?

                    Funnily enough, if you were a rancher, on an isolated road, in open rangeland, and a car hit your horse - you could sue - it would be the driver's responsibility because he should have known there might be livestock on the road. In urban area not so much. (in Canada, that is.)
                    Proud member of People Who Hate to Kill Wildlife clique

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Yes, Call the police to protect yourself. Damn neighbor issues.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        I would call the police hoping if an officer showed up, with lights flashing, the child would get scared enough to stay out of the pasture. I think a nice friendly call to the cops explaining the situation would be in order...and I would have a batch of cookies for the officers to take home with them in thanks. If she comes back, then I would call child services.

                        Sadly, it sounds like the little person is desperate for attention. Even the wrong kind. Her parents must be winners.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Check with you homeowners insurance agent since they would likely be on the hook to pay to defend you they may have suggestions on how to protect yourself.
                          Oh, well, clearly you're not thoroughly indoctrinated to COTH yet, because finger pointing and drawing conclusions are the cornerstones of this great online community. (Tidy Rabbit)

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            I've had the opportunity to work around youngsters while in uniform. My purpose is to encourage them to go to a police officer if they are ever in trouble, or frightened for any reason. I know that certain types of parents tell "johnny" that the lawman is going to take them away and that is so wrong!! It would be bad if this young child was frightened by an officer.

                            Instead, perhaps you could speak with someone at the Dept..explain the situation and "arrange" to have an officer talk to the parents without the tyke around or...have an officer gently explain (to the child) that the horses could hurt her accidentally and how sad it would make everyone.

                            Either way you HAVE to CYA! We had just this sort of thing happen when I was a child. The young neighbor boy grabbed the back legs of a foal who promptly leg go with a kick that landed in the child's face...a glancing blow to the chin which took the side of the face to his ear! Had it been a direct hit to the chin he would have died immediately! Fortunately, the neighbors were very close friends and recognized their error.
                            "My treasures do not sparkle or glitter, they shine in the sunlight and nicker to me in the night"

                            Comment

                            • Original Poster

                              #15
                              I have called the cops, so the paper trail has been started.

                              The idea of nailing a 2x4 or larger to the post is a good one. I actually hate where the gate is anyway, so moving it and decreasing the spacing sounds like a good idea. There is only about 4" of space between post and gate, but that is still enough apparently.

                              All of the fencing in front is wire field fence. Thus far the child has not tried to climb over it, but always aims for the gate (she finally told me today how she was getting in). Have been trying to get the hotwire working for a year now with no luck. Not sure if our soil is just too sandy or if I cannot find somewhere that it is grounding out.

                              Insurance is up to date and they do know I have horses, so I am covered there.

                              Comment


                              • #16
                                Be mean. Seriously. I don't have horses on my property, but I DO have a few obnoxious neighbor kids, ages 5-8, who have never been taught respect for others' property.
                                After a few nicely put requests, including a visit to parents, I gave up one afternoon. I shouted and yelled at them to leave, not to think of even setting foot on my property anymore. (No, I didn't cuss at them, but was pretty forceful).
                                Now I'm "the mean lady who hates children" and they hide from me when they see me coming. At least it keeps them out of my yard.

                                Comment


                                • #17
                                  I would be nervous about putting up a hot wire at this point. What if the kid gets zapped now and you're accused of putting it up to "trap" her or some such nonsense?

                                  Sorry you have to go through this.

                                  Comment


                                  • #18
                                    We have a really obnoxious 5 year old neighbor who came up to my DH while he was weeding near our gate the other day. Kid says to DH "hey, what's your name?" DH gets all basso profundo on him, turns his scruffy bearded face to the kid and says "son, my name is SIR!" Kid runs home and hasn't darkened our door again. The nerve...

                                    We have four kids, and none of them was ever such a pain, but I agree with the kid-proofing and calling the cops. I knew my boundaries as a child and didn't go in the neighbor's yards, especially the ones across they street. They may have had ponies but then they also had a really deep voiced and mean father. DH isn't really mean, but he can play mean really well.

                                    Comment


                                    • #19
                                      Originally posted by birdsong View Post
                                      I've had the opportunity to work around youngsters while in uniform. My purpose is to encourage them to go to a police officer if they are ever in trouble, or frightened for any reason. I know that certain types of parents tell "johnny" that the lawman is going to take them away and that is so wrong!! It would be bad if this young child was frightened by an officer.

                                      Instead, perhaps you could speak with someone at the Dept..explain the situation and "arrange" to have an officer talk to the parents without the tyke around or...have an officer gently explain (to the child) that the horses could hurt her accidentally and how sad it would make everyone.

                                      Either way you HAVE to CYA! We had just this sort of thing happen when I was a child. The young neighbor boy grabbed the back legs of a foal who promptly leg go with a kick that landed in the child's face...a glancing blow to the chin which took the side of the face to his ear! Had it been a direct hit to the chin he would have died immediately! Fortunately, the neighbors were very close friends and recognized their error.
                                      Right kids should not fear cops.........many atlanta and fulton co cops gave candy to kids so they would remember that cops are their friends. Let the parents fear you but don't let kids fear cops.

                                      and invest in no climb fencing and better locks on gates. Will protect your animals from dogs and humans as much as it will protect you from lawsuits.

                                      Comment


                                      • #20
                                        Be sure to document each incident with the police, and do anything you reasonably can to keep the kid out.

                                        Comment

                                        Working...
                                        X