• Welcome to the Chronicle Forums.
    Please complete your profile. The forums and the rest of www.chronofhorse.com has single sign-in, so your log in information for one will automatically work for the other. Disclaimer: The opinions expressed here are the views of the individual and do not necessarily reflect the views and opinions of The Chronicle of the Horse.



Forum rules and no-advertising policy

As a participant on this forum, it is your responsibility to know and follow our rules. Please read this message in its entirety.

Board Rules

1. You’re responsible for what you say.
As outlined in Section 230 of the Communications Decency Act, The Chronicle of the Horse and its affiliates, as well Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd., the developers of vBulletin, are not legally responsible for statements made in the forums.

This is a public forum viewed by a wide spectrum of people, so please be mindful of what you say and who might be reading it—details of personal disputes are likely better handled privately. While posters are legally responsible for their statements, the moderators may in their discretion remove or edit posts that violate these rules. Users have the ability to modify or delete their own messages after posting, but administrators generally will not delete posts, threads or accounts upon request.

Outright inflammatory, vulgar, harassing, malicious or otherwise inappropriate statements and criminal charges unsubstantiated by a reputable news source or legal documentation will not be tolerated and will be dealt with at the discretion of the moderators.

2. Conversations in horse-related forums should be horse-related.
The forums are a wonderful source of information and support for members of the horse community. While it’s understandably tempting to share information or search for input on other topics upon which members might have a similar level of knowledge, members must maintain the focus on horses.

3. Keep conversations productive, on topic and civil.
Discussion and disagreement are inevitable and encouraged; personal insults, diatribes and sniping comments are unproductive and unacceptable. Whether a subject is light-hearted or serious, keep posts focused on the current topic and of general interest to other participants of that thread. Utilize the private message feature or personal email where appropriate to address side topics or personal issues not related to the topic at large.

4. No advertising in the discussion forums.
Posts in the discussion forums directly or indirectly advertising horses, jobs, items or services for sale or wanted will be removed at the discretion of the moderators. Use of the private messaging feature or email addresses obtained through users’ profiles for unsolicited advertising is not permitted.

Company representatives may participate in discussions and answer questions about their products or services, or suggest their products on recent threads if they fulfill the criteria of a query. False "testimonials" provided by company affiliates posing as general consumers are not appropriate, and self-promotion of sales, ad campaigns, etc. through the discussion forums is not allowed.

Paid advertising is available on our classifieds site and through the purchase of banner ads. The tightly monitored Giveaways forum permits free listings of genuinely free horses and items available or wanted (on a limited basis). Items offered for trade are not allowed.

Advertising Policy Specifics
When in doubt of whether something you want to post constitutes advertising, please contact a moderator privately in advance for further clarification. Refer to the following points for general guidelines:

Horses – Only general discussion about the buying, leasing, selling and pricing of horses is permitted. If the post contains, or links to, the type of specific information typically found in a sales or wanted ad, and it’s related to a horse for sale, regardless of who’s selling it, it doesn’t belong in the discussion forums.

Stallions – Board members may ask for suggestions on breeding stallion recommendations. Stallion owners may reply to such queries by suggesting their own stallions, only if their horse fits the specific criteria of the original poster. Excessive promotion of a stallion by its owner or related parties is not permitted and will be addressed at the discretion of the moderators.

Services – Members may use the forums to ask for general recommendations of trainers, barns, shippers, farriers, etc., and other members may answer those requests by suggesting themselves or their company, if their services fulfill the specific criteria of the original post. Members may not solicit other members for business if it is not in response to a direct, genuine query.

Products – While members may ask for general opinions and suggestions on equipment, trailers, trucks, etc., they may not list the specific attributes for which they are in the market, as such posts serve as wanted ads.

Event Announcements – Members may post one notification of an upcoming event that may be of interest to fellow members, if the original poster does not benefit financially from the event. Such threads may not be “bumped” excessively. Premium members may post their own notices in the Event Announcements forum.

Charities/Rescues – Announcements for charitable or fundraising events can only be made for 501(c)(3) tax-exempt organizations. Special exceptions may be made, at the moderators’ discretion and direction, for board-related events or fundraising activities in extraordinary circumstances.

Occasional posts regarding horses available for adoption through IRS-registered horse rescue or placement programs are permitted in the appropriate forums, but these threads may be limited at the discretion of the moderators. Individuals may not advertise or make announcements for horses in need of rescue, placement or adoption unless the horse is available through a recognized rescue or placement agency or government-run entity or the thread fits the criteria for and is located in the Giveaways forum.

5. Do not post copyrighted photographs unless you have purchased that photo and have permission to do so.

6. Respect other members.
As members are often passionate about their beliefs and intentions can easily be misinterpreted in this type of environment, try to explore or resolve the inevitable disagreements that arise in the course of threads calmly and rationally.

If you see a post that you feel violates the rules of the board, please click the “alert” button (exclamation point inside of a triangle) in the bottom left corner of the post, which will alert ONLY the moderators to the post in question. They will then take whatever action, or no action, as deemed appropriate for the situation at their discretion. Do not air grievances regarding other posters or the moderators in the discussion forums.

Please be advised that adding another user to your “Ignore” list via your User Control Panel can be a useful tactic, which blocks posts and private messages by members whose commentary you’d rather avoid reading.

7. We have the right to reproduce statements made in the forums.
The Chronicle of the Horse may copy, quote, link to or otherwise reproduce posts, or portions of posts, in print or online for advertising or editorial purposes, if attributed to their original authors, and by posting in this forum, you hereby grant to The Chronicle of the Horse a perpetual, non-exclusive license under copyright and other rights, to do so.

8. We reserve the right to enforce and amend the rules.
The moderators may delete, edit, move or close any post or thread at any time, or refrain from doing any of the foregoing, in their discretion, and may suspend or revoke a user’s membership privileges at any time to maintain adherence to the rules and the general spirit of the forum. These rules may be amended at any time to address the current needs of the board.

Please see our full Terms of Service and Privacy Policy for more information.

Thanks for being a part of the COTH forums!

(Revised 1/26/16)
See more
See less

?'s on when to spay and spay incontinence in female dogs

  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • ?'s on when to spay and spay incontinence in female dogs

    My female pup is 4 months old soon and I'm trying to make the right decision on when to have her spayed. Vet says between 5 - 6 months. breeder recomends 6-7 months. Co-owner of the pup's mom said that the mother didn't come into heat until a year old and felt that it's best to spay after one heat. I've read online about spay early vs spay late. The spay later folks seem to think that a later spay will help prevent female urine incontinence.

    What does the COTH peeps think?
    When did you have your female spayed? What size dog is she?
    Anyone dealt with spay/urine incontinence?

    I've heard that larger breed dogs should wait longer than 6 months, as they are slow to grow and mature.

    My pup is 15.5 inches 21 lbs and should grow to be 17-19 inches and 30 -35 lbs.

  • #2
    When did you have your female spayed? 4 months
    What size dog is she? smaller lab
    Anyone dealt with spay/urine incontinence? yes unfortunatly she has it and in time it's getting better but do wish I waited until she was 6 months. She will be 2 next month.


    • #3
      I've had several females spayed between ... what, 4 and 6 months? with no issues, ever. Younger dogs heal faster. Never an issue with incontinence in any of the girls spayed early.

      I had one girl spayed following her first heat (my mistake, time just got away from me, and I don't consider a bitch in heat to be a big deal) and she took longer to heal and tolerated anesthesia poorly. She had to be hospitalized for several days. She was perhaps 14 months at the time.

      Spaying before the first hear really reduces the chance of mammary cancer.

      Unless there's a REASON to wait--there's some question on whether the dog is quality enough to be bred at a later date--spay before the first heat.


      • #4
        I'm not a Vet, but as far as I know there is no valid theory to wait until they have had at least one heat.

        Go to your Vet and find out for sure. I've spayed mine at 6 months. No reason to wait and possibly bring in a litter of puppies into the already way over populated pet population.
        MnToBe Twinkle Star: "Twinkie"

        Proud member of the "Don't rush to kill wildlife" clique!


        • #5
          We were always told once the permanent canine teeth were in completely was the time to spay/neuter. I adopted a boxer/lab that was supposed to be 11 months old and spayed. Six months later she came into her first heat. Had no choice but to spay her in heat. Thankfully I had a very good vet. Unfortunately she developed incontinence issues and is now on Proin. Vet does not believe it had anything to do with her being spayed while in heat.
          If there are no pets in Heaven then I want to go where they went !!!
          RIP Maybe June 13,1993-Sept.23,2006,Dexter March 11,1983-Sept.23,2009, Joey 1997?-June 21,2012, Abbey Dec.7, 2003-Aug.29-2016.


          • #6
            Female dogs can get mammary cancer with only one heat cycle. I would not take any chance with that. It is awful. I have known of a few dogs with it....it isn't pretty. I have a very small dachshund female that I spayed at 5 months. She did great. I am glad that I didn't get her done any later. She is wonderful. I don't have any issues with incontinence with her. I would rather take incontinence over cancer any day of the week.

            I would say sooner vs later. No heat cycle if you are not breeding her. Find a vet that specializes in spaying. We have a clinic that only does spay and neuter. I have used them for many years without incident.

            Good Luck.
            Life is too short to argue with a mare! Just don't engage! It is much easier that way!

            Have fun, be safe, and let the mare think it is her idea!


            • #7
              Also, with such a small dog, I would not count on her coming into heat late. I'd expect a 35 lb bitch to come into heat by 8 months. Sure, it can be later....but usually isn't.


              • #8
                Originally posted by Simkie View Post

                Spaying before the first hear really reduces the chance of mammary cancer.
                I've been told the most recent studies show that it's a pretty significant reduction in the chance of cancer. Definatly less than the risk for incontinence (which isn't a killer like cancer and is usually very easy to treat).

                We had our most recent female spayed at 5.5 months- no problems at all.


                • #9
                  Most of my dogs were spayed at 4-6 months, the last two pups were done at 4 months. My stray dog was just done, and she had at least one heat cycle. No issues with any of them.

                  I only had one dog with incontinence problems, her's came at old age, and Proin kept it under control. I also have one dog that was incontinent before she was spayed, that is because she has a birth defect called pelvic bladder. Proin also helps her keep that under control.
                  There are friends and faces that may be forgotten, but there are horses that never will be. - Andy Adams


                  • #10
                    Our vet spays right before six months, but mostly after four, if there is any doubt she may be older.

                    We had many female dogs over the years, all spayed before six months and have never had one that was incontinent.

                    Some times it does happen, but not that common.
                    Those females that have had heats, even just one, tend to develop mammary cancer when older and that can kill them several years before their time.

                    A friend waited for the first heat and after that spayed her later agility champion and that golden was incontinent all her life, but on some medication didn't leak at all.
                    She spayed her next female before 6 months and she is now three and not incontinent.


                    • Original Poster

                      age question

                      ok good to hear, I'll aim for before her first heat.

                      NOW for a really a stupid question; how do you count the age? She was born May 18th. So does that mean that she is 5 months old on October 18th?? Or does that mean she turns 5 months old on the 20th week; which is September 28th???? So confusing.

                      I was told to keep her quiet for 2 weeks after the spay surgery. So I am planning on having her spayed during a less active time in our families schedule.
                      the best time to spay would be after her last Obed class Oct 16th or in the first of November. But I'm trying to figure out her age (see above) Nov 2nd starts her 25th week. Is she 5 1/2 months old then???


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by NRB View Post
                        ok good to hear, I'll aim for before her first heat.

                        NOW for a really a stupid question; how to you count the age? She was born May 18th. So does that mean that she is 5 months old on October 18th?? Or does that mean she turns 5 months old on the 20th week; which is September 28th???? So confusing.
                        I would say October 18th she is five months and you want to spay right after that and before November 18th, unless your vet tells you different, knowing the dog.

                        The smaller the dog, the quicker they seem to mature sexually, so if she is a small dog, you want to spay sooner rather than later.


                        • Original Poster

                          Thanks Bluey, I think between 5 and 6 months is the way to go right now. So she'll get spayed between Oct 18th and Nov 1st. I'll call the vet for an apt tomorrow.

                          I don't tend to think of her as small, more of a medium sized dog. She's a Standard Schnauzer and the biggest pup from her litter. The dogs I met at the breeders were all knee height (17-19 inches). the same size as the Australian Shepherds we used to have in the early 80's (the Aussies now seem to be larger and hairier by comparison) I'd think a small dog, like a Miniature Schnauzer, would mature early.


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by NRB View Post
                            I don't tend to think of her as small, she's a Standard Schnauzer and the biggest pup from her litter. The dogs I met at the breeders were all knee height (17-19 inches). I'd think a small dog, like a Miniature Schnauzer, would mature early.
                            I have 70 lbs dogs. A 35 lb dog is small to me

                            And a 35 lb dog definitely doesn't fall into ANY "large breed" grouping. Small to medium instead.


                            • Original Poster

                              this girl is 21lbs now, I think that she'll easily go to 40 lbs. I think she is a Medium Sz Dog. NOT large by any means.

                              But yes, size is all relative isn't it.

                              I think large is a Great Dane/GSD.
                              medium is Lab/Aussie
                              small is Jack Russell/Bichon Frise

                              One Aussie we used to have was 75 lbs, but still she was a medium sz dog. I wouldn't call 70 large either, but again it depends on the dog, the breed and the height. And if they were overweight, like the 75 lb Aussie.


                              • #16
                                Originally posted by NRB View Post
                                But yes, size is all relative isn't it.

                                I think large is a Great Dane/GSD.
                                medium is Lab/Aussie
                                small is Jack Russell/Bichon Frise
                                Actually, I think Large Breed dogs is anything over 50lbs and "Giant" Breeds are over 100. It is a bit of a misnomer though because Labradors are Large breed dogs but due to poor breeding, etc. a lot of them are over 100 pds, but they shouldn't be considered "Giant" Breed like St. Bernards and Great Danes.

                                I spayed my female at 5 months as per the vet's recommendation and she started experiencing female incontinence at 2 years of age! She had to have estrogen shots and was on a drug called phenylpropanolamine for about a year. Thankfully, she grew out of that when she gained a bit more body fat and will only have an accident when she goes swimming and fills up her bladder. If I could do it over again, I would have waited a bit longer. My vet also did an entire hysterectomy (removal of uterus and ovaries) and I'm not sure that was the best idea either. We are pretty sure when she gets older she will have serious incontinence issues as a result of the loss of hormones - especially estrogen.

                                Personally, I think vets and animal rescues are so crazed about spay/neuter and keeping the unwanted animal population down (which I agree for the most part) that the secondary problems associated with the practice are usually brushed under the carpet.
                                Most friendships in the horse world are just an opinion away from doom.


                                • #17
                                  ---"Personally, I think vets and animal rescues are so crazed about spay/neuter and keeping the unwanted animal population down (which I agree for the most part) that the secondary problems associated with the practice are usually brushed under the carpet."---

                                  On the other hand, having a female with pyometra or six or seven year old dog with prostate or mammary cancer is a sad way to see them die early and that is rather common on those neutered later or never.

                                  I agree that neutering to curb the overpopulation is a worthy goal also, but it is not the only one.


                                  • #18
                                    I had this same post on Off Topic a few months ago. Here's what I did...

                                    I had an Airedale Terrier puppy. My vet wanted her spayed BEFORE 6 months. The breeder said wait until after the first heat due to growing reasons. Claims puppies spayed too early will just keep growing and have joint issues.

                                    I wanted until my dog was 7 months. And guess what??? My dog is smaller than she's supposed to be! So much for dogs that are spayed keep growing... Personally, I feel that they do need the hormones for developing but the cancer threat was too large for me. So I left her intact as long as possible before the first heat. Seemed to work nicely and I have a beautiful dog at 1.3 years old.

                                    Kiwayu & Figiso Pictures:


                                    • #19
                                      What the breeder meant is that at puberty, there are some growth plates that are set to close at sexual maturity, those hormones, especially in males, do help signal the growth plates of the long bones in the leg to close.

                                      If we neuter before that surge of hormones and that doesn't happen then, of course, we may see a smidgen of longer time of growth in those bones, making maybe those bones a little bit longer than they normally would be.

                                      Since the body is growing all along and that is the way it is learning to be, it doesn't really matter if the leg bone is a few milimeters longer, as long as the whole body is growing at the same rate.

                                      Now, if there is an injury and one bone only doesn't develop at the same rate than the rest, then you may have a problem later from that.

                                      I hope this puts that in perspective, where yes, we may alter some growth for a minimal effect, but the advantages of not having a sexually active animal and later a very high risk of cancer from that, as we do in entire dogs as a species, that is something you as an owner have to weight.

                                      Most good breeders I know neuter both sexes as soon as they know they are not going to breed any more, because they have been living with the consequences as their dogs get older and know, if it was not for their need to raise puppies, for a pet dog, it is not worth the risks.

                                      The same happens in horses, that those males gelded before two may have a little more longer lower leg bones and so maybe be 1/2" taller than they would have been left intact past puberty.
                                      Same principle, the growth plates closing at that time is not happening then for another six months.

                                      In dogs, some breeds show that more, like whippets, because they are so long and lean anyway and you do get to see the males neutered early may be a hair leggier than those not.
                                      Other breeds, that is not so noticeable, because of their heavier built or hairy coats, especially since the difference is really minimal.


                                      • #20
                                        I have my female dogs spayed (or my males altered) when they are a year old, because I want their bones and everything else to mature. I am very careful not to let anyone breed however.

                                        Because of the huge overpopulation of dogs and cats, and because some people do not know they can take a bitch or queen in to the vet's within 3 days of being bred and get a shot to prevent pregnancy, humane societies and vets down south here started doing spaying/altering on puppies and kittens as young as 6 weeks old (started over 20 yrs ago). I do not have any of those animals, but friends have adopted some and they had no adverse effects from early spaying/altering.

                                        My aussies used to come in season at 6 months of age, then due to some genetic changes by my breeder, they now come into season at 1 yr of age.

                                        The issue about cancer is primarily genetic, not spaying/altering. I had a 3 yoa aussie die from cancer (genetic from an outbreeding by my breeder) and I've had aussies live to be 14/15/16 yoa.
                                        All of these dogs were spayed (I only buy bitches) at 1 yoa. My male aussie was never altered and he lived to be 16 yoa. My male dogs (rescues all) lived to be 11, 14, and one is 14 now, and they were all altered at 1 yoa.) All my dogs were/are large.

                                        (My WB was not gelded till he was 4 yoa and he's 16.2.)