• Welcome to the Chronicle Forums.
    Please complete your profile. The forums and the rest of www.chronofhorse.com has single sign-in, so your log in information for one will automatically work for the other. Disclaimer: The opinions expressed here are the views of the individual and do not necessarily reflect the views and opinions of The Chronicle of the Horse.

Announcement

Collapse

Forum rules and no-advertising policy

As a participant on this forum, it is your responsibility to know and follow our rules. Please read this message in its entirety.

Board Rules

1. You’re responsible for what you say.
As outlined in Section 230 of the Communications Decency Act, The Chronicle of the Horse and its affiliates, as well Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd., the developers of vBulletin, are not legally responsible for statements made in the forums.

This is a public forum viewed by a wide spectrum of people, so please be mindful of what you say and who might be reading it—details of personal disputes are likely better handled privately. While posters are legally responsible for their statements, the moderators may in their discretion remove or edit posts that violate these rules. Users have the ability to modify or delete their own messages after posting, but administrators generally will not delete posts, threads or accounts upon request.

Outright inflammatory, vulgar, harassing, malicious or otherwise inappropriate statements and criminal charges unsubstantiated by a reputable news source or legal documentation will not be tolerated and will be dealt with at the discretion of the moderators.

2. Conversations in horse-related forums should be horse-related.
The forums are a wonderful source of information and support for members of the horse community. While it’s understandably tempting to share information or search for input on other topics upon which members might have a similar level of knowledge, members must maintain the focus on horses.

3. Keep conversations productive, on topic and civil.
Discussion and disagreement are inevitable and encouraged; personal insults, diatribes and sniping comments are unproductive and unacceptable. Whether a subject is light-hearted or serious, keep posts focused on the current topic and of general interest to other participants of that thread. Utilize the private message feature or personal email where appropriate to address side topics or personal issues not related to the topic at large.

4. No advertising in the discussion forums.
Posts in the discussion forums directly or indirectly advertising horses, jobs, items or services for sale or wanted will be removed at the discretion of the moderators. Use of the private messaging feature or email addresses obtained through users’ profiles for unsolicited advertising is not permitted.

Company representatives may participate in discussions and answer questions about their products or services, or suggest their products on recent threads if they fulfill the criteria of a query. False "testimonials" provided by company affiliates posing as general consumers are not appropriate, and self-promotion of sales, ad campaigns, etc. through the discussion forums is not allowed.

Paid advertising is available on our classifieds site and through the purchase of banner ads. The tightly monitored Giveaways forum permits free listings of genuinely free horses and items available or wanted (on a limited basis). Items offered for trade are not allowed.

Advertising Policy Specifics
When in doubt of whether something you want to post constitutes advertising, please contact a moderator privately in advance for further clarification. Refer to the following points for general guidelines:

Horses – Only general discussion about the buying, leasing, selling and pricing of horses is permitted. If the post contains, or links to, the type of specific information typically found in a sales or wanted ad, and it’s related to a horse for sale, regardless of who’s selling it, it doesn’t belong in the discussion forums.

Stallions – Board members may ask for suggestions on breeding stallion recommendations. Stallion owners may reply to such queries by suggesting their own stallions, only if their horse fits the specific criteria of the original poster. Excessive promotion of a stallion by its owner or related parties is not permitted and will be addressed at the discretion of the moderators.

Services – Members may use the forums to ask for general recommendations of trainers, barns, shippers, farriers, etc., and other members may answer those requests by suggesting themselves or their company, if their services fulfill the specific criteria of the original post. Members may not solicit other members for business if it is not in response to a direct, genuine query.

Products – While members may ask for general opinions and suggestions on equipment, trailers, trucks, etc., they may not list the specific attributes for which they are in the market, as such posts serve as wanted ads.

Event Announcements – Members may post one notification of an upcoming event that may be of interest to fellow members, if the original poster does not benefit financially from the event. Such threads may not be “bumped” excessively. Premium members may post their own notices in the Event Announcements forum.

Charities/Rescues – Announcements for charitable or fundraising events can only be made for 501(c)(3) tax-exempt organizations. Special exceptions may be made, at the moderators’ discretion and direction, for board-related events or fundraising activities in extraordinary circumstances.

Occasional posts regarding horses available for adoption through IRS-registered horse rescue or placement programs are permitted in the appropriate forums, but these threads may be limited at the discretion of the moderators. Individuals may not advertise or make announcements for horses in need of rescue, placement or adoption unless the horse is available through a recognized rescue or placement agency or government-run entity or the thread fits the criteria for and is located in the Giveaways forum.

5. Do not post copyrighted photographs unless you have purchased that photo and have permission to do so.

6. Respect other members.
As members are often passionate about their beliefs and intentions can easily be misinterpreted in this type of environment, try to explore or resolve the inevitable disagreements that arise in the course of threads calmly and rationally.

If you see a post that you feel violates the rules of the board, please click the “alert” button (exclamation point inside of a triangle) in the bottom left corner of the post, which will alert ONLY the moderators to the post in question. They will then take whatever action, or no action, as deemed appropriate for the situation at their discretion. Do not air grievances regarding other posters or the moderators in the discussion forums.

Please be advised that adding another user to your “Ignore” list via your User Control Panel can be a useful tactic, which blocks posts and private messages by members whose commentary you’d rather avoid reading.

7. We have the right to reproduce statements made in the forums.
The Chronicle of the Horse may copy, quote, link to or otherwise reproduce posts, or portions of posts, in print or online for advertising or editorial purposes, if attributed to their original authors, and by posting in this forum, you hereby grant to The Chronicle of the Horse a perpetual, non-exclusive license under copyright and other rights, to do so.

8. We reserve the right to enforce and amend the rules.
The moderators may delete, edit, move or close any post or thread at any time, or refrain from doing any of the foregoing, in their discretion, and may suspend or revoke a user’s membership privileges at any time to maintain adherence to the rules and the general spirit of the forum. These rules may be amended at any time to address the current needs of the board.

Please see our full Terms of Service and Privacy Policy for more information.

Thanks for being a part of the COTH forums!

(Revised 1/26/16)
See more
See less

Anyone familiar with the Brat breed (designer breed opinions)...

Collapse
This topic is closed.
X
X
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Anyone familiar with the Brat breed (designer breed opinions)...

    I am thinking about adding a Brat to my brood. (Boston/Rat terrier cross.) Does anyone have one or know someone who does? Just wondering if they tend to take stronger traits from the Boston or the Rat. And, while we are on the subject, how do you feel about the new "designer breeds"?
    Sailing the high seas but secretly wishing to be on the back of a horse.

  • #2
    IMHO, breeders and purchasers who support the phenomenon of designer "breeds" should be ashamed of themselves. If somebody wants a mixed breed dog, go and look at the millions of dogs in the shelter; I bet you can find a lot of designer breeds that do not cost +$1000. Breeders of designer dogs are taking advantage of the uneducated public, and the dogs are suffering.

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by DoubleClick View Post
      IMHO, breeders and purchasers who support the phenomenon of designer "breeds" should be ashamed of themselves. If somebody wants a mixed breed dog, go and look at the millions of dogs in the shelter; I bet you can find a lot of designer breeds that do not cost +$1000. Breeders of designer dogs are taking advantage of the uneducated public, and the dogs are suffering.

      Yeah, what she said
      Kanoe Godby
      www.dyrkgodby.com
      See, I was raised by wolves and am really behind the 8-ball on diplomatic issue resolution.

      Comment


      • #4
        Yeah - second what she said.

        Designer breeds - someone getting lots of bucks for mutts.

        Comment


        • #5
          I assume that the Boston/Rat Terrier cross like most 'designer' mixes (they're not breeds yet) - very new and being handled by people who are not serious about breeding, just about getting paid. So any B/R cross is a random mixup of characteristics from the two breeds involved - there's no way to predict anything except that the dog will probably (assuming the breeder actually did cross two purebreds, and not a pair of dogs who just look vaguely purebred and are registered to the American Real Dog registry or something like that) be smallish and short-haired.

          The original 'designer' dogs were an attempt to produce a low-allergen breed, but whatever you think of those original Labradoodles, the idea has spread. Now 'designer' dogs are a ploy for puppy millers and ordinary lowlifes to make a buck off puppies without doing even the very small amount of planning required to register a litter with the AKC. My last two dogs were mutts; mutts rule. Rewarding people for producing dogs willy-nilly does not. Same goes for anyone producing AKC-registered purebreds without any accomplishments or proof of quality. I don't have a problem with the doodles; they're mutts and I like mutts. And, frankly, most people are better equipped to handle a goldendoodle than the pit that their local shelter is desperate to unload. But the people breeding those adorable doodles are either indifferently or unwittingly contributing to the same problem as the 'fighters' breeding the pits and the millers breeding petshop pups - too many dogs for the available homes.

          Truthfully, though, the only reason the doodles bother me is that their breeders are such scum. The majority of the 'designer' dogs seem to be designed to appeal to people who want a cute pet. I can live with that. It's the people who want the man-stopper or the dog-fighter who really worry me. I do not like seeing 'creative' crosses of large working and guarding breeds, or the dog-aggressive breeds. I've seen Akitas involved in 'designer' dogs, and that's flat-out terrifying. Then there's the lovely agility idiots who are crossing Border Collies and Jack Russells (Border Jack) and Border Collies with pit bulls (Border Staffs). Because those were breeds simply crying out to be caffeinated up a little, right?

          Comment


          • #6
            Add me to the contingent that thinks that "designer" breeds are the way to put a high price tag on muts. You are not liable to get reliable characteristics from these crosses.

            I have a boston terrier/shih tzu cross that was an accident that may be the cutest thing ever, but I couldn't tell you which breed she takes after more. She is very much her own little self - a sporty ragamuffin.
            If you believe everything you read, better not read. -- Japanese Proverb

            Comment


            • #7
              Oh, and I researched the "Brat Terrier", and they can look like either a rat or a Boston. In terms of temperament, one person had two and said that one acted like a rat terrier, and the other like a Boston. If that's the case, then why not rescue a purebred boston, or rat, or a wonderful mutt, or support a responsible purebred breeder who health tests, exhibits his/her dogs, and will be there as a support system for the life of your dog. I believe well bred Bostons can have health problems, and you can bet your money that a Boston used in a Brat cross will NOT be well bred (no responsible breeder would EVER EVER for the life of them sell their dog to a designer breeding program). So, imagine the health problems that you could be getting there after shelling out a fortune for your dog.

              Sorry to chime in again, but I am a responsible breeder/exhibitor, so this topic makes my blood BOIL!

              Comment

              • Original Poster

                #8
                I haven't really done much research on the "designer" dogs. I did however know of a lady who was breeding Labradoodles for their hypoalergenic properties. This "Brat" is a rescue, not from a breeder. I don't know if he was intentionally bred that way, just knew that there was a name for them. I was just wondering if someone may know if they tend to favor one or the other more. He is a very sweet little dog.
                Sailing the high seas but secretly wishing to be on the back of a horse.

                Comment


                • #9
                  If the dog is a rescue and not from a breeder, great. But, please do not refer to him as a Brat. Refer to him as what he is, a Boston/Rat Terrier mix. If someone sees your cute dog, wonders what he is, and you say that he is a Brat Terrier, then that person may run out and try to get one as well, which is supporting the breeding of designer dogs.

                  In terms of Labradoodles, they, as a cross, are not exclusively hypo-allergenic. Breeders market them as such, but it can be rather hit or miss as to whether or not the puppy receives the poodle coat or the golden coat. I think that the only way to ensure coat quality is through generations of breeding crosses. You can't just cross a golden with a poodle and say that it doesn't shed. Doesn't work that way.

                  Comment

                  • Original Poster

                    #10
                    Good advice on the explaining of the breeding. It does make a big difference to say Boston/Rat cross than to say Brat. Thank you for that. I do not condone cross breeding, and have owned many mutts that were adopted from shelters. They always inevitably turn out to be the best pets. I must say however that I love my JRTs the best. And the JRTCA JRTs, not the AKC.
                    Sailing the high seas but secretly wishing to be on the back of a horse.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Definitely not a fan. With the exception of what was a sixth generation labradoodle from Australia, I have yet to encounter a designer bred pup where the parents were high quality, breeding worthy individuals. If they were, they'd be being bred to create more purebreds. Most of the ones I meet are the offspring of pet store quality parents. Nor do I encounter "designer" breeders who are performing all of the appropriate health screenings.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Brat Breeder- A money hungry person that takes 2 dogs and tries to fleece the public. Usually there is no health/genetic testing, and dogs are way overpriced.

                        A good breeder will breed to better the breed, using dogs that have the pedigree, temperment, and conformation to pass on. Most parents will have achieved something either in the performance arena or show arena.

                        The designer "breeds" are a scam. Go buy a mixed breed from a shelter if you want a cross/mutt.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Mutts are wonderful dogs....forget the designer cross for mega bucks...

                          One that I have recently heard of is the "Native American Indian Dog". That one annoys the heck out of me...Someone capitalizing on the romantic fantasy that circulates amongst Native American idolizers. This lady is breeding dogs with similar characteristics...all very "instinctive" typed...malamutes, huskeys, and something else? and selling them to just anyone who loves the fact that she had labeled them as "Native American"....this is the cross breed that was recently highlighted because it took the baby out of its bed. I felt so bad for those parents and that poor dog.
                          "My treasures do not sparkle or glitter, they shine in the sunlight and nicker to me in the night"

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            I have a rat terrier and can't imagine why anyone would want to cross a short nosed breed, with all those problems from that defect, with a rat terrier, unless it is so they can call it a "Brat" and so have a nicely sounding name to market their mixed breed puppies.

                            For those that think that mixed breeds are the best, I may remind them that behind mixed breed dogs there at one time were some very good, knowledgeable and creful purebred breeders of a pure bred dog.

                            ALL dogs can be the best dog, if you take the time to work with them, mix or purebred.

                            I second that, if someone wants a mixed breed, that is most people that are not going to participate in breed dog activities, the shelters and rescues is the first place I would reccomend they look, rather than adding to the people that are part of the problem of a world overrun with unwanted dogs.

                            No, you won't know if the dog you fall in love at the shelter is any specific mix, but in the end, does that really matter?
                            You can still call it "Brat".

                            If it matters to you, go ahead, get the dog mix you want.
                            Plenty of today's breeds started as carefully bred mixes.
                            I doubt that such a cross of rather antagonistic features, as a boston and rat terriers have, would be the kind of cross that produces other than odd results and no two alike, like crossing, say, a dalmatian with a bulldog.

                            We need to think about the consequences of buying a dog today, who we want to support with our money.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              You know what is amusing?

                              When I was in college, the lady that owned the barn where I kept my horses had two pugs she wanted to breed. She also got a beagle. She was waiting for the beagle to go through her first heat before spaying her. Well, male pug and female beagle got together instead.

                              Everyone loved the puppies and they were cute! We joked about making our own breed.....a few years later I learn about the 'puggle'. My cousin bought hers...I go mine for free!

                              As far as getting a Boston/Rat terrier mix, or Brat or whatever you want to call it. Take a look at the temperments and abilities of both breeds and you are going to get a certain mix.

                              Every puggle I have met looks very similar and has similar beagle traits (likes to run and sniff and 'goes deaf' when on a scent, unlike pugs). Brats are probably going to be similar with a certain look and certain traits.

                              Comment


                              • #16
                                Folks who cross breed for cuteness value and to be able to have a "cool" new "breed" name are never ever ever the type of person to breed for health.
                                Designer dogs have as much value as Paris Hilton. Absolutely useless and every single person who buys one perpetuates more being bred. And supports genetic messes and puppy mills.
                                So would I ever consider buying a designer dog? Nope. Never.
                                You jump in the saddle,
                                Hold onto the bridle!
                                Jump in the line!
                                ...Belefonte

                                Comment


                                • #17
                                  When buying a purebred dog, you really need to do your research to avoid all of the genetic diseases common among purebreds. Most of the puppy mill purebreds are very poorly bred and likely to have genetic and other health issues. Those who breed to cute designer dogs are usually using the poorly bred puppy mill purebreds to breed the designer dogs, so instead of having the breed-specific problems of one breed, you have them from two. Some of these issues are not genetically recessive, and they will show up in the cross-breds. I would be very concerned that anyone breeding this mix is breeding dogs with major health problems (i.e., subluxating patellas). Thus the puppy will have more health issues than a well-bred purebred puppy.

                                  I cannot tell you how many poorly bred puggles I see at the dog park. I suspect it would be the same with the brat.

                                  Comment


                                  • #18
                                    BTW, if you are interested in a Boston, there are tons through a Providence RI Boston Terrier Rescue group on PetFinder.

                                    Comment


                                    • #19
                                      they aren't "Breeds". People who breed these mutts are out for a buck ONLY and don't care about the health or quality of their breeding stock. Since they are mutts, you have no idea what you are going to end up with, but since the parents are pretty much certain to be sub-standard specimens odds are you'll end up with an unhealthy poor temperament dog. If you want a "designer breed" go for a purebred from a good breeder. Now these are REALLY "designer breeds". They have been bred for generations to give a particular consistent look, temperament, energy level, and instinctive behaviors. Real "designer breeds".

                                      Comment


                                      • #20
                                        Good for you to be getting a "pound" puppy. Definitly tell the curious that it is a mix from a rescue (or wherever). I think that people that buy/sell designer breeds, are a big part of the overpopulation of unwanted pets. Because whether it is the current popular pure breed or a new designer breed, anything that encourages puppy mills is very bad and depressing to true animal lovers.

                                        PS - puppies from the pound/shelter are just as cute as puppies from a breeder
                                        ~ Kimberlee
                                        www.SpunkyDiva.com

                                        Comment

                                        Working...
                                        X