• Welcome to the Chronicle Forums.
    Please complete your profile. The forums and the rest of www.chronofhorse.com has single sign-in, so your log in information for one will automatically work for the other. Disclaimer: The opinions expressed here are the views of the individual and do not necessarily reflect the views and opinions of The Chronicle of the Horse.

Announcement

Collapse

Forum rules and no-advertising policy

As a participant on this forum, it is your responsibility to know and follow our rules. Please read this message in its entirety.

Board Rules

1. You’re responsible for what you say.
As outlined in Section 230 of the Communications Decency Act, The Chronicle of the Horse and its affiliates, as well Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd., the developers of vBulletin, are not legally responsible for statements made in the forums.

This is a public forum viewed by a wide spectrum of people, so please be mindful of what you say and who might be reading it—details of personal disputes are likely better handled privately. While posters are legally responsible for their statements, the moderators may in their discretion remove or edit posts that violate these rules. Users have the ability to modify or delete their own messages after posting, but administrators generally will not delete posts, threads or accounts upon request.

Outright inflammatory, vulgar, harassing, malicious or otherwise inappropriate statements and criminal charges unsubstantiated by a reputable news source or legal documentation will not be tolerated and will be dealt with at the discretion of the moderators.

2. Conversations in horse-related forums should be horse-related.
The forums are a wonderful source of information and support for members of the horse community. While it’s understandably tempting to share information or search for input on other topics upon which members might have a similar level of knowledge, members must maintain the focus on horses.

3. Keep conversations productive, on topic and civil.
Discussion and disagreement are inevitable and encouraged; personal insults, diatribes and sniping comments are unproductive and unacceptable. Whether a subject is light-hearted or serious, keep posts focused on the current topic and of general interest to other participants of that thread. Utilize the private message feature or personal email where appropriate to address side topics or personal issues not related to the topic at large.

4. No advertising in the discussion forums.
Posts in the discussion forums directly or indirectly advertising horses, jobs, items or services for sale or wanted will be removed at the discretion of the moderators. Use of the private messaging feature or email addresses obtained through users’ profiles for unsolicited advertising is not permitted.

Company representatives may participate in discussions and answer questions about their products or services, or suggest their products on recent threads if they fulfill the criteria of a query. False "testimonials" provided by company affiliates posing as general consumers are not appropriate, and self-promotion of sales, ad campaigns, etc. through the discussion forums is not allowed.

Paid advertising is available on our classifieds site and through the purchase of banner ads. The tightly monitored Giveaways forum permits free listings of genuinely free horses and items available or wanted (on a limited basis). Items offered for trade are not allowed.

Advertising Policy Specifics
When in doubt of whether something you want to post constitutes advertising, please contact a moderator privately in advance for further clarification. Refer to the following points for general guidelines:

Horses – Only general discussion about the buying, leasing, selling and pricing of horses is permitted. If the post contains, or links to, the type of specific information typically found in a sales or wanted ad, and it’s related to a horse for sale, regardless of who’s selling it, it doesn’t belong in the discussion forums.

Stallions – Board members may ask for suggestions on breeding stallion recommendations. Stallion owners may reply to such queries by suggesting their own stallions, only if their horse fits the specific criteria of the original poster. Excessive promotion of a stallion by its owner or related parties is not permitted and will be addressed at the discretion of the moderators.

Services – Members may use the forums to ask for general recommendations of trainers, barns, shippers, farriers, etc., and other members may answer those requests by suggesting themselves or their company, if their services fulfill the specific criteria of the original post. Members may not solicit other members for business if it is not in response to a direct, genuine query.

Products – While members may ask for general opinions and suggestions on equipment, trailers, trucks, etc., they may not list the specific attributes for which they are in the market, as such posts serve as wanted ads.

Event Announcements – Members may post one notification of an upcoming event that may be of interest to fellow members, if the original poster does not benefit financially from the event. Such threads may not be “bumped” excessively. Premium members may post their own notices in the Event Announcements forum.

Charities/Rescues – Announcements for charitable or fundraising events can only be made for 501(c)(3) tax-exempt organizations. Special exceptions may be made, at the moderators’ discretion and direction, for board-related events or fundraising activities in extraordinary circumstances.

Occasional posts regarding horses available for adoption through IRS-registered horse rescue or placement programs are permitted in the appropriate forums, but these threads may be limited at the discretion of the moderators. Individuals may not advertise or make announcements for horses in need of rescue, placement or adoption unless the horse is available through a recognized rescue or placement agency or government-run entity or the thread fits the criteria for and is located in the Giveaways forum.

5. Do not post copyrighted photographs unless you have purchased that photo and have permission to do so.

6. Respect other members.
As members are often passionate about their beliefs and intentions can easily be misinterpreted in this type of environment, try to explore or resolve the inevitable disagreements that arise in the course of threads calmly and rationally.

If you see a post that you feel violates the rules of the board, please click the “alert” button (exclamation point inside of a triangle) in the bottom left corner of the post, which will alert ONLY the moderators to the post in question. They will then take whatever action, or no action, as deemed appropriate for the situation at their discretion. Do not air grievances regarding other posters or the moderators in the discussion forums.

Please be advised that adding another user to your “Ignore” list via your User Control Panel can be a useful tactic, which blocks posts and private messages by members whose commentary you’d rather avoid reading.

7. We have the right to reproduce statements made in the forums.
The Chronicle of the Horse may copy, quote, link to or otherwise reproduce posts, or portions of posts, in print or online for advertising or editorial purposes, if attributed to their original authors, and by posting in this forum, you hereby grant to The Chronicle of the Horse a perpetual, non-exclusive license under copyright and other rights, to do so.

8. We reserve the right to enforce and amend the rules.
The moderators may delete, edit, move or close any post or thread at any time, or refrain from doing any of the foregoing, in their discretion, and may suspend or revoke a user’s membership privileges at any time to maintain adherence to the rules and the general spirit of the forum. These rules may be amended at any time to address the current needs of the board.

Please see our full Terms of Service and Privacy Policy for more information.

Thanks for being a part of the COTH forums!

(Revised 1/26/16)
See more
See less

What would you do - papers not coming?

Collapse
X
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • What would you do - papers not coming?

    Okay. So, we picked up a horse from a barn in another state about a month ago. The horse was listed as free to good home, apparently abandoned by owner who owed back board. I was told "coggins was recent, shots were recent, trimming was a few days ago, I don't have the papers but I'll mail them."

    I had a quarantine stall in a barn by itself so thought it would be okay to just quarantine her until the coggins arrived, because I was assured that it had just been done. I had reservations about taking her without the coggins, but the horse looked in great health, thin but otherwise fine.

    The 'ad' for the horse listed her as "an imported warmblood, papers were available and the barn owner was going to try to get them" for me. I have tried many many times to contact her about the coggins and papers, but I have failed to elicit a single response from the barn owner after several attempts. I have a young rider who would love to take the mare and get her registered or if she is registered, to get that transferred. At the very least, the student wants to know WHO the mare really is. We just have what we presume is a stable/call name for her. I know the mare was bred to a very nice DWB about 5 years ago, I guess I could contact the owner of the stallion and see if they have any idea who she could be?

    I guess I'd just ask for advice here.... what would you do? At this point, I presume nothing can be done. But how frustrating to be told this paperwork was available, and to not.. get anything.
    Member of the Standardbreds with Saddles Clique!

  • #2
    I'm a notorious hard ass, so bear that in mind when reading my response.

    I would contact the seller, asking yet again for what was promised me. I would also, in an e-mail/voice mail/what have you, state that if the papers are not immediately available, I will be bringing said horse back within 48 hours. And, if no contact has been made on the "seller's" part in those 48 hours, I'd make good on my threat and take the horse back.

    You can only wait so long and keep a horse in "quarantine" ( ) for so long. Back up your words with actions, and take the mare back. If you don't, you'll be stuck with something with no provenance, no history, and maybe even a positive Coggins thrown in as the cherry on top.

    JMO.
    In loving memory of Laura Jahnke.
    A life lived by example, done too soon.
    www.caringbridge.org/page/laurajahnke/

    Comment


    • #3
      Well 1st off, you at least need a transfer of ownership note that has been notorized so that the original owners of this horse don't come hunting it down.

      And stick to your guns, maybe a you have a friend that's a lawyer that could make a phone call.

      You could pull your own coggins to be safe, and booster her flu/rhino so you can integrate her, I know it seems like a pain, but gotta have her covered right?

      I would contact the stallion people and do some research, I picked up a free WB mare last summer; and trcaked her all the way back to the sporthorse auction she was sold at as a 2y.o. I never ended up with any papers or a name, but I got her history, and enjoyed some very ineteresting converstaions to say the least.
      Last edited by mrsbradbury; Apr. 21, 2009, 09:04 PM. Reason: ETA:

      Comment

      • Original Poster

        #4
        coggins

        yeah, I did the coggins here. After waiting a week, I got panicky and just had my vet do it. What's a $35 charge in comparison, right? But it's really the principle of the thing. I'm a little leery of having a horse that kinda.. wasnt really like.. available? I've gotten pretty attached to her, and poured a ton of care and feed into her so far. I just want to know WHO she is and that we have a legal right to have her here, and I'd love to have something that says that. lol.
        Member of the Standardbreds with Saddles Clique!

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by crickett14502 View Post
          Okay. So, we picked up a horse from a barn in another state about a month ago. The horse was listed as free to good home, apparently abandoned by owner who owed back board. I was told "coggins was recent, shots were recent, trimming was a few days ago, I don't have the papers but I'll mail them."

          .......

          The 'ad' for the horse listed her as "an imported warmblood, papers were available and the barn owner was going to try to get them" for me. I have tried many many times to contact her about the coggins and papers, but I have failed to elicit a single response from the barn owner after several attempts. I have a young rider who would love to take the mare and get her registered or if she is registered, to get that transferred. At the very least, the student wants to know WHO the mare really is. We just have what we presume is a stable/call name for her. I know the mare was bred to a very nice DWB about 5 years ago, I guess I could contact the owner of the stallion and see if they have any idea who she could be?

          You might be opening up a can of worms here. From what I get here, it sounds like the owner who "abandoned" the horse has the papers, and the barn owner gave the horse away (but if he/she was owed back board, it seems a little strange that the horse would be given away, as opposed to sold.)

          It's doubtful that the original owner is going to give up the papers, since the horse was taken from them. They probably won't even answer the phone, b/c they figure BO is calling about the $$$.

          Am I right to assume you got no sort of paperwork at all, the most important being a bill of "sale" (maybe should be called transfer of ownership since the horse was free)? Could that be because the BO did not rightfully own the horse? Sometimes people don't do the honorable thing; BO was owed money, so they made the horse disappear. Maybe they didn't have a clause in the boarding contract that gave them the right to take the horse, but they made it happen anyway. (Out of state, no less.) Meanwhile, original owner is looking for their horse.

          This is all hypothetical, of course, I don't know anyone involved. But do you see how this could get ugly? If you have no paperwork giving you rightful ownership, the original owner might come get their horse if they know where to find you.

          Comment


          • #6
            Hmm.. barn owner may not have the right to give the horse away for unpaid board. Here the Cattlemen's Lein Act says the horse has to go to auction.
            Proud member of People Who Hate to Kill Wildlife clique

            Comment

            • Original Poster

              #7
              supposedly the previous owner (again, this is the information I was given) had told the barn owner to "put the horse down" as they no longer wanted to deal with her but then agreed to allow the barn owner a couple of weeks to find her a new home. They had two horses at this barn, and decided to keep the younger stallion and pay off his board. The barn owner then chose to find a home for her, and listed her as available. I agree with what everybody's saying, and it's why I posted my query - I just don't want to end up in some legal battle over this poor mare. My red flags are going up more and more... I have kept all emails regarding her so that if it does come to that, my intentions won't be under question, plus I do have a witness who was there when we picked her up that saw the barn owner load her and was there during the entire exchange. But yeah... I'm with y'all.
              Last edited by crickett14502; Apr. 21, 2009, 11:37 PM. Reason: added more for clarification
              Member of the Standardbreds with Saddles Clique!

              Comment


              • #8
                Hmmm, if they have a stallion, maybe there's a chance they are breeding him. You might be able to track them down that way if you can find out who the stallion is.

                Or you could do like you said earlier, ask who your horse is via the stallion owner who bred her before.

                Just be aware that if you decide to do this, it might come back to bite you.


                ETA: just because someone saw you pick up the horse doesn't mean the BO had the authority to give her to you. It's like if you buy a stolen car...they can take it back and you're S.O.L. because the seller didn't rightfully own it to begin with.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by crickett14502 View Post
                  supposedly the previous owner (again, this is the information I was given) had told the barn owner to "put the horse down" as they no longer wanted to deal with her but then agreed to allow the barn owner a couple of weeks to find her a new home.


                  This could potentially be very tricky, as I understand it horses are considered property, and the owners had the right to euthanize said horse regardless of her usefulness and health. You and I may find this morally apprehensible, but unltimately it is the decision of the legal owner.

                  It sounds like this horse is safe with you.

                  I recently picked up a "free" WB mare, as I mentioned before and thankfully with all the tracking down; the woman who gave her to me had the legal right to do so. So, there are actually two sides to this coin ~ You may find caring owners who want their horse back; or you discover her history and find out you are A OK to have her.

                  In the event someone wants their horse back, I would imagine you would be entitled to a renumeration of such things as feed, vet etc. for providing a reasonable standard of care. Secondly, the original BO would have some serious answering to do.

                  Does this mare have any unique identifying marks?

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    I don't have the papers but I'll mail them
                    that's the Horse Tradin' version of "the check is in the mail"

                    Comment

                    • Original Poster

                      #11
                      she's got facial and leg markings but I wouldn't say it's terribly unique. Funny thing webmistress - that's EXACTLY what I was thinking when she said "I'll mail them to you."

                      *the check is in the mail* kept running through my head. We'll I'll make a final plea to the previous barn owner and hopefully NOT have to contact my attorney but I may have her draw up a "release" for me that I'll send to the barn owner for signature, sent certified, of course. :-)

                      The mare is in a safe, good home right now, getting fed about 4-5 smaller meals a day. She's gaining weight, we've ruled out ulcers (she cribs) and we think it's just behavioural. She's doing well, it's just I keep having this nagging thought in the back of my mind about the whole ownership thing. I almost feel compelled to post something on the giveaway forum, to ensure naive recipients don't end up making this same stupid mistake I did when I answered that ad. You know that whole "if something sounds too good to be true, chances are it is..." thing...
                      Member of the Standardbreds with Saddles Clique!

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Threaten to bring her back and drop her off if you don't get a bill of sale. That usually does it.

                        You don't always get the papers on a free mare. Personally, if I liked the horse I wouldn't care.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          A lame pony that was given away for breeding, free. Was three years unproductive. Then she was leased out to a little girl who rehabed the pony. Previous owners just dropped pony off, never visited, never called. Then when pony starts showing up at shows they want the pony back. A year goes by and goes to small claims court. Judge said, in effect, if you snooze you lose, and awarded pony back to the people who had been given pony in first place because by then they owed, hypothetically, $10,000 in board. The original owners claimed ownership because they still had the papers.

                          Technically, pony should have gone to auction, but would have probably gone for meat or who knows where, so lady leased the pony to a loving, knowledgeable home.

                          Lesson: Get paperwork: bill of sale even if for $1.00, papers, registration signed/changed, etc.
                          Proud member of People Who Hate to Kill Wildlife clique

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Hmm..

                            I would be careful trying to track down too much info. on this mare. Unless you are planning on breeding her, registration papers are insignificant. If you ended up with a nice mare for next to nothing, count your blessings and move on. Don't make yourself available to the people you got her from- this makes you an easy target for a lawsuit/harassment later on if the old owners get the idea they want her back.
                            Here today, gone tomorrow...

                            Comment

                            • Original Poster

                              #15
                              papers

                              The mare seems to have questionable soundness issues from an obvious injury in a hind leg, cribs, possibly could be dealing with ulcers. She was listed (on COTH) as a broodmare. So yeah, the papers would be kind of necessary for that. LOL.

                              I dunno. I guess I'll try one more time and call it quits. I really appreciate everybody's comments, concerns and suggestions.
                              Member of the Standardbreds with Saddles Clique!

                              Comment

                              Working...
                              X