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Boundary Line Dispute - Vindictive Neighbor

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  • Boundary Line Dispute - Vindictive Neighbor

    I will make a long story short...I had the boundary line surveyed after my non-horsey neighbor and I both noticed on-line, that the county had it all wrong in their ariel photo. The line the county had indicated as the boundary, was going through my top paddock, through my outdoor arena and large pond; all these improvements I paid to have put in years ago. My neighbor, thinking (wishing is more like it) that he owned more then he thought, approached me about it. I agreed to split the cost of the survey ($2300 each) and sent in my deposit. He agreed, though not in writing. Fast forward to today and the suvery is done, (the county had it wrong, he lost land and now has 19 acres not 25 and I have 45 instead of 40) AND he refuses to pay his share, has threatened to have anyone he deems is on his property (they are not) arrested and the kicker to it all is HE MOVED THE SURVEYORS MARKERS to where it suited him in the woods. The surveyors and I walked the property line today and they were very quick to point that out and where the markers were originally placed.
    He denied it (of course), when after I called the police and the Trooper went up there. Now I have to pay to put the markers back (Not going too, he will only move them again) and take him to court if I want to press charges. What a pathetic person; to live lies like that! I am trying to look on the positive - the arena is mine and I have 5 more acres than I thought. I am really trying too, not to dwell (this is hard!) on this horrible person. I hope that his heart was beating a little faster when he answered the door and saw the police...
    I also pray that he does not harm my horses, that has been my biggest concern. He has hunting rifles and a very bad temper, which I have seen. NOT a good combination...

    Has anyone else experienced a property line issue?

  • #2
    Sorry I haven't had to go through property line disputes.

    Sounds like the guy is a total dink. But unfortunately I'm not sure if you will be able to get that $2300 bucks out of him if it was just a verbal contract for you two to split the cost of the survey.

    But I would say congrats to you on getting five more acres And I bet, like you said, his heart was probably beating pretty hard when the cops showed up at his door Considering the sound of this guy, I would just leave it be. But that's my thought.

    Comment

    • Original Poster

      #3
      I think I have to just let it be, like you said. I made my point with the trooper and perhaps I have to be satisfied with that. Thanks for your note!

      Comment


      • #4
        Not personally. But my old boarding barn experienced a problem. A new owner moved into an adjoining lot and one night he just tore down the fence. No warning, no phone call - just decided to do it.

        There were 20 horses in that field.

        You can imagine the BO had a conniption. He'd owned the land for 50 years - the new owner's surveyor had made an error.

        However, police were involved, lawyers were involved - and we feared for our horses for a long time. A few years later I guess that guy sold his house and moved - never had any problems with the new owner.

        Don't know all the details but things were pretty tense for a while.

        Hope everything settles down soon.
        Brothers and sisters, I bid you beware
        Of giving your heart to a dog to tear.
        -Rudyard Kipling

        Comment


        • #5
          I would not assume you own that extra 5 acres- in addition to other possible variables, if your state recognizes adverse posession and it has been long enough (usually a very long time), it is possible to lose land to a neighbor if the neighbor occupies it and openly claims it as their own for the requisite period time (I do not recall the exact requirements for adverse posession, plus they vary by jurisdiction anyway). You might want to consult a local real estate/real property attorney.
          There is something about the outside of a horse that is good for the inside of a man.(Churchill)

          Comment


          • #6
            I think since she was openly possessing it--she had an indoor on it and it was fenced--he is out of luck. I think that would have been her case had it turned out he owned the land.

            Either way, lawyers will most likely become involved. I don't think he wants to give up 5 acres without a fight. Hopefully that fight will be in a court of law and not in some night time sneak attack. I would start by getting a court order for him to stay off YOUR property.

            Comment

            • Original Poster

              #7
              The new boundary line map was filed today, so unless he wants to pay to have it resurveyed he is out of luck. Since I had fenced and made that land my own, my lawyer feels I am fine. The deed was correct, the only thing that wasn't was the overhead view the shot from the plane and the line they drew through it...I may ask for that court order in the future, though since he is such a hot head, I may also leave it as is, for now. My lawyer knows all that has gone on and so far feels we have done enough and all that we can without spending more money. The neighbor does not have the $ to do anything on his end. I could take him to small claims court for the share of the survey, but there was nothing in writing. The surveyor said they would testify so maybe I will. I am so mentally tired from this whole thing that I need to refresh my mind to fight another day...thank you all for your thoughts...

              Comment


              • #8
                I don't know how it is in New York but...did your neighbor physically move the permanent markers (i.e. rods, metal pins) or just the temporary flagged stakes? In Virginia, if you move the permanent markers I believe it is a felony. You may want an attorney to look into it.

                Comment


                • #9
                  MintHillFarm, I'm sorry you have to live next to a person who is like this.

                  I have a neighbor who seems to be encroaching on our property as well. I'd like to have it surveyed but I fear she, too, will move the flags and then what??? I think if you take this person to court that he would have to pay for reflagging the property line--at least I would hope so.

                  Since this person came to you about this situation and offered to pay he is on the hook for that portion of the survey--regardless of how the survey turned out.

                  Take him in front of Judge Pirro or Judge Judy--they'll tear him a new one!

                  Frankly, I am all in favor of taking people like this to court (small claims)! Sometimes it's enough to get them to back off. Can you talk to a lawyer about this situation and your fear of retribution??? I just hate bullies!!!!!
                  "None of us can move forward if half of us are being held back." ~Anonymous~

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by equinelaw View Post
                    I think since she was openly possessing it--she had an indoor on it and it was fenced--he is out of luck. I think that would have been her case had it turned out he owned the land.
                    .
                    I was talking about the 5 acres she previously thought the neighbor owned but per the survey are actually hers- not the property that the aerial photo cut off that both her and her neighbor had believed that OP owned and on which her fields and indoor are.
                    If she has consulted a lawyer, I assume that this lawyer knows the relevant facts and she is fine but based on the post, that was not necessarily the case because your legal ownership of the property even if it is supported by deeds and filed surveys and all the documentation does not necessarily defeat adverse posession. Glad she consulted an attorney because it is unfortunate how few do and how often it comes back to bite them in the butt
                    There is something about the outside of a horse that is good for the inside of a man.(Churchill)

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by MintHillFarm View Post
                      The new boundary line map was filed today, so unless he wants to pay to have it resurveyed he is out of luck. Since I had fenced and made that land my own, my lawyer feels I am fine. The deed was correct, the only thing that wasn't was the overhead view the shot from the plane and the line they drew through it...I may ask for that court order in the future, though since he is such a hot head, I may also leave it as is, for now. My lawyer knows all that has gone on and so far feels we have done enough and all that we can without spending more money. The neighbor does not have the $ to do anything on his end. I could take him to small claims court for the share of the survey, but there was nothing in writing. The surveyor said they would testify so maybe I will. I am so mentally tired from this whole thing that I need to refresh my mind to fight another day...thank you all for your thoughts...
                      I don't know much about property rights in my state -much less New York. But I think if you could get the overhead view corrected too-that would make it clear that you are the owner. Just covering all your angles. As for the 2,500 -if you can afford it, let it go-you have 5 extra acres and if you can instead put in fencing or some such-try and distance yourself from him. He seems mad right now-well he just lost 5 acres when he thought he would gain some! So understandable- so as long as you can make your case legally non questionable and can afford to let it go for the balance amt-let it go. No point in aggravating-unless you absolutely have to-you do have to live next door.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        I'd sure take it hard if I lost a huge chunk of my property! Not condoning the infantile and ugly behavior, but I wouldn't hold my breath for the other half of the survey fee--a couple of grand for five acres isn't a bad price, though.

                        He doesn't have a leg to stand on threatening people on "his" land, so I'd just give him time to simmer down. Be pleasant, take the high road. No doubt he's smarting pretty badly over HIS own stupid idea. I'd be inclined to let the half of the survey fee go. You still have to live next to him, and from his perspective I'm sure he'd rather forget the whole thing, is embarrassed and humiliated, and might--someday--appreciate your NOT drilling down on him for the money.
                        Click here before you buy.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          I'd fence it according to the newly surveyed lines, while the issue is fresh in everyone's mind.

                          Just to be safe, if I were you I'd fence my "new" five acres right now and just pay the surveyor whatever is owed. Depending on your location, $2300 might not be that much for five acres, so look at it that way.

                          At the very least, put some permanent markers where they belong. Blue paint on trees works well, if there's a tree or trees on the line. Another thing you can do is drive metal stakes (concrete reinforcing rods come to mind) into the ground where you can find them but the neighbor doesn't know they are there. Great for future reference.

                          Good luck!
                          "It’s a well-documented fact that of all the animals in the realm of agriculture, Bulls have the highest job satisfaction rate."~~Ree Drummond, AKA the Pioneer Woman

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            There should already be permanent markers in the ground, shouldn't there? It will say on the survey. Those little flags are just for visualization--usually unless there is a definite boundary (a street, etc.) there have to be permanent markers sunk into the ground, or so I thought.
                            Click here before you buy.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              I think now a days markers are more like the invisible kind put in the ground and not easily moved, unlike the orange flags or old fashioned stones.


                              It is not legal to move those boundary markers, not in old world measures anyhow, folks have been known to haunt the area after their passing suffering for their miss-deeds!

                              frankly, I'd pay the surveyor. Keeps your reputation in check, and I'd proceed according to layers instructions on fencing the new 5. (around here land is cheap, so 2300 bucks for 5 acres is a good deal!

                              But I know what you mean, I don't even want to go to the back side of my front yard, because my neighbors are such non people...

                              what ever you do, stay safe. (document, document, document!)
                              Originally posted by BigMama1
                              Facts don't have versions. If they do, they are opinions
                              GNU Terry Prachett

                              Comment


                              • #16
                                Must be a New York thing. My neighbor did the same with us and his neighbor on the other side. Moved the markers after we had just had the land surveyed.
                                I contemplated having a fencer put in stone pillars where the markers were, you know dig 5 feet pour in cement and put nice stone pillar on top. But I didn't. He is absurdly sneaky and keeps on cutting and putting his grass on our side. Honestly ? I think he has a mental tick. Every once in a while we push the grass back. Oh well, "there's none so queer as folks"

                                Comment


                                • #17
                                  Just watch what you do with your manure. The next thing thses kind of neighbors do is file a complaint that you are not handling your manure properly.

                                  Comment


                                  • #18
                                    Usually those aerial photos are "for visualization purposes only and owner to verify etc etc". In my neighborhood they show everyone lot lines about 50ft south of where they really are.

                                    Comment


                                    • #19
                                      Fun times. Your neighbor is a dick. But look at the bright side: Now you can sell your new 5 acres to someone equally obnoxious, and use the proceeds to pay the surveyor and put up a very tall privacy fence. With enough left over to buy nice, prickly hedges and a big dog.











                                      -------
                                      Just kidding. The above does not constitute legal advice. Read at your own risk. Valid in 49 out of 50 states.*










                                      ------
                                      *Sorry, Iowa.

                                      Comment


                                      • #20
                                        In most places I've ever been a legal survey trumps a county map or aireal photo.

                                        In many places it's a crime to move survey stakes.

                                        First, consult with your attorney to see what steps you need to take to protect your interests.

                                        Second, sue the neighbor in small claims court for his half of the survey fees and the cost of re-setting the stakes, if your attorney agrees.

                                        Third, file a criminal complaint with your local police agency over the moving, if your attorney agrees. You might not get a conviction due to the State's burden of proof requirements, but you'll rattle his cage real hard (particularly if you can get an arrest warrant and have him spend a few hours in jail while making bond).

                                        In that complaint be sure to include criminal tresspass (all or part of him had to enter your property to move the stake) and vandalism (damage to your property caused by the moving).

                                        By far the better course would be some sort of agreement between you. Based upon his conduct this is unlikely. And, based upon his conduct, further criminal action against you is not out of the question. You might want to consider some sort of "recording security system" to monitor you barn, pastures, house, etc.

                                        Good luck in your problem. I fear this will not be an easy one to solve.

                                        G.
                                        Mangalarga Marchador: Uma Raça, Uma Paixão

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