• Welcome to the Chronicle Forums.
    Please complete your profile. The forums and the rest of www.chronofhorse.com has single sign-in, so your log in information for one will automatically work for the other. Disclaimer: The opinions expressed here are the views of the individual and do not necessarily reflect the views and opinions of The Chronicle of the Horse.



Forum rules and no-advertising policy

As a participant on this forum, it is your responsibility to know and follow our rules. Please read this message in its entirety.

Board Rules

1. You’re responsible for what you say.
As outlined in Section 230 of the Communications Decency Act, The Chronicle of the Horse and its affiliates, as well Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd., the developers of vBulletin, are not legally responsible for statements made in the forums.

This is a public forum viewed by a wide spectrum of people, so please be mindful of what you say and who might be reading it—details of personal disputes are likely better handled privately. While posters are legally responsible for their statements, the moderators may in their discretion remove or edit posts that violate these rules. Users have the ability to modify or delete their own messages after posting, but administrators generally will not delete posts, threads or accounts upon request.

Outright inflammatory, vulgar, harassing, malicious or otherwise inappropriate statements and criminal charges unsubstantiated by a reputable news source or legal documentation will not be tolerated and will be dealt with at the discretion of the moderators.

2. Conversations in horse-related forums should be horse-related.
The forums are a wonderful source of information and support for members of the horse community. While it’s understandably tempting to share information or search for input on other topics upon which members might have a similar level of knowledge, members must maintain the focus on horses.

3. Keep conversations productive, on topic and civil.
Discussion and disagreement are inevitable and encouraged; personal insults, diatribes and sniping comments are unproductive and unacceptable. Whether a subject is light-hearted or serious, keep posts focused on the current topic and of general interest to other participants of that thread. Utilize the private message feature or personal email where appropriate to address side topics or personal issues not related to the topic at large.

4. No advertising in the discussion forums.
Posts in the discussion forums directly or indirectly advertising horses, jobs, items or services for sale or wanted will be removed at the discretion of the moderators. Use of the private messaging feature or email addresses obtained through users’ profiles for unsolicited advertising is not permitted.

Company representatives may participate in discussions and answer questions about their products or services, or suggest their products on recent threads if they fulfill the criteria of a query. False "testimonials" provided by company affiliates posing as general consumers are not appropriate, and self-promotion of sales, ad campaigns, etc. through the discussion forums is not allowed.

Paid advertising is available on our classifieds site and through the purchase of banner ads. The tightly monitored Giveaways forum permits free listings of genuinely free horses and items available or wanted (on a limited basis). Items offered for trade are not allowed.

Advertising Policy Specifics
When in doubt of whether something you want to post constitutes advertising, please contact a moderator privately in advance for further clarification. Refer to the following points for general guidelines:

Horses – Only general discussion about the buying, leasing, selling and pricing of horses is permitted. If the post contains, or links to, the type of specific information typically found in a sales or wanted ad, and it’s related to a horse for sale, regardless of who’s selling it, it doesn’t belong in the discussion forums.

Stallions – Board members may ask for suggestions on breeding stallion recommendations. Stallion owners may reply to such queries by suggesting their own stallions, only if their horse fits the specific criteria of the original poster. Excessive promotion of a stallion by its owner or related parties is not permitted and will be addressed at the discretion of the moderators.

Services – Members may use the forums to ask for general recommendations of trainers, barns, shippers, farriers, etc., and other members may answer those requests by suggesting themselves or their company, if their services fulfill the specific criteria of the original post. Members may not solicit other members for business if it is not in response to a direct, genuine query.

Products – While members may ask for general opinions and suggestions on equipment, trailers, trucks, etc., they may not list the specific attributes for which they are in the market, as such posts serve as wanted ads.

Event Announcements – Members may post one notification of an upcoming event that may be of interest to fellow members, if the original poster does not benefit financially from the event. Such threads may not be “bumped” excessively. Premium members may post their own notices in the Event Announcements forum.

Charities/Rescues – Announcements for charitable or fundraising events can only be made for 501(c)(3) tax-exempt organizations. Special exceptions may be made, at the moderators’ discretion and direction, for board-related events or fundraising activities in extraordinary circumstances.

Occasional posts regarding horses available for adoption through IRS-registered horse rescue or placement programs are permitted in the appropriate forums, but these threads may be limited at the discretion of the moderators. Individuals may not advertise or make announcements for horses in need of rescue, placement or adoption unless the horse is available through a recognized rescue or placement agency or government-run entity or the thread fits the criteria for and is located in the Giveaways forum.

5. Do not post copyrighted photographs unless you have purchased that photo and have permission to do so.

6. Respect other members.
As members are often passionate about their beliefs and intentions can easily be misinterpreted in this type of environment, try to explore or resolve the inevitable disagreements that arise in the course of threads calmly and rationally.

If you see a post that you feel violates the rules of the board, please click the “alert” button (exclamation point inside of a triangle) in the bottom left corner of the post, which will alert ONLY the moderators to the post in question. They will then take whatever action, or no action, as deemed appropriate for the situation at their discretion. Do not air grievances regarding other posters or the moderators in the discussion forums.

Please be advised that adding another user to your “Ignore” list via your User Control Panel can be a useful tactic, which blocks posts and private messages by members whose commentary you’d rather avoid reading.

7. We have the right to reproduce statements made in the forums.
The Chronicle of the Horse may copy, quote, link to or otherwise reproduce posts, or portions of posts, in print or online for advertising or editorial purposes, if attributed to their original authors, and by posting in this forum, you hereby grant to The Chronicle of the Horse a perpetual, non-exclusive license under copyright and other rights, to do so.

8. We reserve the right to enforce and amend the rules.
The moderators may delete, edit, move or close any post or thread at any time, or refrain from doing any of the foregoing, in their discretion, and may suspend or revoke a user’s membership privileges at any time to maintain adherence to the rules and the general spirit of the forum. These rules may be amended at any time to address the current needs of the board.

Please see our full Terms of Service and Privacy Policy for more information.

Thanks for being a part of the COTH forums!

(Revised 1/26/16)
See more
See less

Dog with food aggression needs help fast

  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Dog with food aggression needs help fast

    Hi. I know I missed the off topic day, but I really need help, and hope the mods will not delete my thread. I have a young Shih Tzu/Pekingese mix who has serious food aggression problems. I, being a teen, can not stop my mom from sending him off to the shelter. I have a younger brother, and my mom is afraid he'll hurt him, which is understandable. But he is an outside dog mainly. I've tried to train him out of the food aggression, and I want to scrape together my own money to pay a professional to help, but my Mom just isn't supportive in my efforts and wants nothing to do with him.

    If any of you can help with any ideas of what to do, it would be great. He is very possessive of objects and if you try to take ANYTHING away he growls, snaps, freaks out. Same with food, if you get near him while he's eating even a crumb off the floor, he apsolutely flips. I can't even describe, he growls horribly and attacks like a Pit (no offense to Pits, I think they're great dogs, more like a Pit trained to fight). He has drawn blood. If you try to do an alpha roll and put him on his back, he growls like a monster and bites and snaps.

    Sometimes, after many alpha rolls, he will back off a bit, and I make him stand back away from his food. But then he will not go to the food at all and won't eat, and when he finally does, I feel like I've lost what I've gained, because he starts being aggressive all over again.

    Also, he is not fixed. Unfortunately. I know, I know. I want him fixed too, but as said, parents are not helping me out here.

  • #2
    I'm going to be very honest and say that without the entire family on board with you it is going to be difficult, if not impossible to rectify this behavior. It might not be possible at all, but at least with consistancy you can known in your heart you tried your best.

    I would have to agree with your parents in regards to your little brother too...the dog has already drawn blood...no telling he wont do it again and can you live with yourself if it is your brother who is seriously injured? Biting is dangerous honey, and I know it is hard but is something you need to make your heart believe (((hugs)))
    I Loff My Quarter Horse & I love Fenway Bartholomule cliques

    Just somebody with a positive outlook on life...go ahead...hate me for that.


    • #3
      matey the dog has drawn blood ad bites, regardless of type the kindest thing is to have him pts as this type of dog will not get re homed as food aggression is one of the things they must past which he wont be able to

      and hes outside a lot of a dog triaing is how you keep him and how you socailise with him
      to humans and to other dogs and animals, unfortunately no one given him the time of day as hes outside mostly so has to defend for himself no doubt
      and your a minor you have no option than to lewt your parents do what right
      how would you feel if he jumped up and bite your brother in the face as hes younger than you
      you can not keep a dog in a home that has agrressive behavioural problems and once they drew blood theres no turning back

      be a grown up and accept that this isnt a dog for a young family and take him to the shleter
      and tell them hes agrressive.. but even if you didnt they will find out and they will put him to sleep

      dont get another dog unless you can spend the time with it, in how to socialise it
      trian it, and not to be left outside all day long especially in weather like we have nowi hope he has decent shelter

      and hes not done -- maey this is a problem which isnt going to have a happy ending
      so be a grown up teen and accept it....... the dog bites and your mums not going to help as she afraid of the dog and you might get bite he sounds vicious hes not olny food agressive but agrressive in general -
      the grown up thing you can do is to take him to a vet or shelter and ask for him to be destroyed and stay with him as then he has freedom and doesnt have to defend himself at every corner- better for the dog better for you and better for your family
      and you would then be classed as not a teen but an adult-- if a baby got bite by this dog how would you feel------- horrfied as you could have prevented it -- get my drift
      do the decent thing and have the dog pts


      • Original Poster

        Thanks. I just wanted to clarify - this behavior is when I was pushing all his buttons. Usually it's more like, pause, tense, not actually snapping, but it just depends. He has not really snapped at my baby brother, only when all his buttons are pushed by me or someone else bigger. He does not snap at my dad. Also, he's tiny, (6-8 lbs?) and quite young. I think he really could be rehabbed, all I'm asking is for a couple of weeks. He is a very sweet dog otherwise. Also, our old golden retriever loves him to death.

        He does get played with every day, and sometimes comes in the house, but my parents do not want inside dogs.


        • #5
          dont go backwards on what you said- thats an excuse for the dog
          the dog has issues be a grown up and accept the fact that this dog is not for a family
          and not for anyoone as its drew blood already
          get it into your head----- the dog has to go- to the shelter
          now you van either be grown up and do the decent thing and stay with him
          or you can be a child and let your mum do the decent thing
          either way the dog will be pts

          your mum is thinking of you and the whole family shes not being selfish she being a good mum in protecting her family and doing whats right------ she knows and so do you
          wake up girl one day this could be you in a few years time with a young family an a baby a little dog can kill a baby just like playing with a rag doll- instance its doesnt have to be a big dog it can be any dog
          a dog once its drawn blood is a dangerous dog- under the laws in uk as odnt know if they have them in usa- some states might be different
          the dog has to be destroyed if it classed as dangerous-- yours is regardless of age or type
          hes dangerous-- wether you push buttons or not
          a dog should never ever rule the house hold-- ever,, a dog should be kind and obediant
          once the dog has your no hes in control and not you and not at any time would you could you get him off r stop him in time if he decided to have a go-------- snaps are as quick as lightenng

          look at these http://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&sou...E8fGOBrTHuPepA

          read this which is only one state http://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&sou...aWNY_BQWF9p25w

          look at this -- http://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&sou...BeeNRUP8NuhDJQ

          now do you want to be like this or your brother-- be grown up and support your mums decession
          as shes right and your wrong-- the dog is dangerous ge that in to your head

          like i said time to grow up- either be a child teen or be an adult one
          the child wont accept and thinks only of himself
          the adult teen thinks and lsitens to reasons - and is supportive

          your mum has supported you in her care and your education and your horses love you and guides
          right from wrong in all walks of life

          this time help her and give something back- by being a grown up and accept her reasons as right


          • #6
            I agree that unless you have everyone living in your home on board that you will have a very difficult row to hoe.
            Before taking him to a shelter, try contacting a small breed rescue and see if they will take him. I do dog rescue myself, and know that sometimes rescues that deal strictly with small dogs are more willing to work through issues like this. It is worth a try.
            If you do end up taking him to a shelter, please be honest and let them know up front how serious his issues are. You don't know if that shelter temperament tests, or how extensively they test, so you don't want his problem to slip through the cracks. It would not be good if he was placed in a home that had no idea he has this behavior and end up with him hurting someone. Even a smaller dog can severely hurt a young child. And it just isn't fair to the dog to bounce him around until someone decides to euthanize him.


            • #7
              You're going about the training all wrong and making the aggression worse. By attacking him, punishing him, taking his stuff by force you've taught him that he does indeed need to aggressively guard food from you. Instead of attacking/punishing/rolling dogs who guard what you want to do is teach the dog he has no need to guard food because you a) won't ever forcibly take it away from him; and b) you give him food. Basic re-training protocol: hand-feed the dog every bite he gets for a week. Next, give him a tiny bit of food in a bowl. When it's empty take the bowl and re-fill and give it to him. Notice what he's learning- if you take his bowl from him a good thing happens next so he starts to like having you take his bowl. Depending on how relaxed he's getting, the next thing is to wander up and toss excellent treats on his food, so he starts to enjoy people being near him when he is eating. It's also a good idea to teach any dog to drop objects on command cause you'll need to get stuff away from him at some time and trying to forcibly take things only teaches dogs to distrust and be aggressive. but that's a long lesson.
              There's a booklet Mine! by Donaldson that you may want to get/ give to your parents. It carefully explains in detail the problem of dog guarding and how to prevent it/ train it away.
              Oh, and you should NEVER "alpha roll" a dog. The idea of an "alpha roll" was discredited decades ago and teaches dogs nothing but distrust towards their owners.


              • #8
                Great response, Wendy! Ditto that.


                • #9
                  Sorry, but he's drawn blood and qualifies as psycho.

                  I wouldn't take him to the pound, I'd have him put to sleep.

                  There are too many nice and lovely dogs and cats at the shelters being put to sleep due to lack of homes. Life's too short, get a nice and loving dog who will add to the family's joy and will be a good member of the pack.

                  Sorry, but he's just not worth the injuries and risks. Time for the "green needle".
                  "Sic Gorgiamus Allos Subjectatos Nunc"


                  • #10
                    Alpha rolls is a badly thought out theory, doesn't work, as you have found out, just makes aggression worse, Cesar Milan nothwithstanding.

                    Wtihout the whole family working on changing his behavior and as a yard dog, not a house companion, I don't think even a professional would be of much help.
                    Wendy already gave you a sensible plan to try to work with your dog some.
                    Try asking here:


                    Have you asked your vet what he thinks? The vet may even have ideas for you, if he is basically a dog with a nice temperament but some bad habits, or tell you that he is a "sharp" dog, that is of questionable temperament for a pet.

                    Some dogs are really beyond help, lucky that he is small, or he may have hurt someone badly.

                    If it comes to that, the local animal control shelter will euthanize him for you, if you don't want your vet to do it.


                    • #11
                      Sorry, but he's drawn blood and qualifies as psycho
                      no there are many situations where I would agree with you, but this dog is biting solely because of the way he is being treated. There is a really good chance that if they start training away the resource-guarding properly he will be fine. he's not psycho, he's simply defending himself. Alpha rolls are horrible. To a dog being forcibly alpha rolled means he's about to be killed by his attacker. Self-defense when one believes one is about to be murdered is usually considered an acceptable excuse for using violence against one's attacker.


                      • #12
                        I agree with Wendy on many points but the dog is in a family with a small child and the majority of the family is not willing to re-train the dog.

                        That, in my experiences, is a ticking time bomb.
                        I Loff My Quarter Horse & I love Fenway Bartholomule cliques

                        Just somebody with a positive outlook on life...go ahead...hate me for that.


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by wendy View Post
                          no there are many situations where I would agree with you, but this dog is biting solely because of the way he is being treated. There is a really good chance that if they start training away the resource-guarding properly he will be fine. he's not psycho, he's simply defending himself. Alpha rolls are horrible. To a dog being forcibly alpha rolled means he's about to be killed by his attacker. Self-defense when one believes one is about to be murdered is usually considered an acceptable excuse for using violence against one's attacker.
                          i agree with what you said wendy and i have a funny feeling this dog has been tuaght to act the way he is by what i call teasing the dog so it becomes aggresive and by what she says she does to it, if other members do that to and the dog is now a yard dog the trust liek you say is gone
                          and there not in a position to get that back,,,, this dog isnt for them as this dog distrust them
                          and would take an expreinced handler to regain that trust if it could be regain
                          in other words they have made the dog like he is--
                          a toy aplay thing -- fogetting hes a lving animal and one to be respected just as you or me would respect a human or an animal--- and the dogs the one that suffers its not about triaing the dog so much as triaining the owners and family memebrs youcant treat a dog
                          as a thing,,,,,,,,,,,,,now the dog with more likely be pts as its drawn blood and any shelter will do a means test and it will fail- so not fair on the dog to prolong things and not fair on the dog when truthfully its not his fault how he is but the owners that trained him to be that way


                          • #14
                            When I want to take something away from my puppy, I bring over something to exchange it for (like a doggie treat, piece of cheese, hot dog. etc) and say "give" then when she drops the object I want to get back, I immediately hand her the treat.
                            She wasn't running away with me, I just couldn't stop her!


                            • #15
                              Ditto Wendy. But wanted to add that a shih tsu/Peke is not an outdoor dog breed. He might have a better life with a different family that would make him an indoor dog with no kids.

                              Alpha rolls, are an outdated, ineffective training method that frequently causes more aggression.

                              Dogforums.com is a good dog bb with good training advice.


                              • #16
                                Here are two of some of many places that explain why "alpha roll" as a training method was a myth we better quit using.
                                I don't know either of those trainers:




                                • Original Poster

                                  Actually, the alpha rolls were done by the recommendation of my vet. (???) No, goeslikestink, I do not 'tease' him. I will try your strategy Wendy, I did try it for a while a long time ago, but as we were in the process of moving, I wasn't very organized. He is 7 months old and very sweet otherwise, a total lovebug. As for 'outside dog', we are in SoCal, so the weather isn't exactly freezing (despite these last few weeks), and he has the option of going in the house or garage at night. He is thrilled to be outside - we bought him as a lap dog, but he turns out to be more of an 'outside dog', after all.


                                  • #18
                                    Another poster to say please please stop doing anything agressive to this dog. The "alpha rolls" are agressive. Canids in the wild do not do this unless they are fighting. The subordinate members of the pack will show appeasement and roll on their own. This is a WORLD of difference from being forced over. But guess what? Your dog is not a wild canine! He's a domestic house pet.

                                    And your vet is not a behavior specialist. Good for you for asking for help, now go to the right places and ask for help. Like a dog behavior forum. Read the 4paws link from Bluey, it's a good start.


                                    • #19
                                      Everyone who lives with this dog has to be on board or nothing can be accomplished. The biggest hurdle I see here is getting this dog neutered--right away--if you're going to keep it. That is, at least, a start. If you can't afford it perhaps your vet's office knows where you can get some help with the cost of neutering--there are groups all over the place who help with this, if you can just hook up with one.

                                      If that can't happen where he is then he should be taken to the shelter or re-homed with someone who can afford to neuter him, knows how to re-train a dog and has the time to spend with him. I don't think the dog is a hopeless case but, having watched Animal Planet, he needs to go somewhere where he at least has a chance at a normal life. Some of the SPCAs have behavioralists that can evaluate the dog and determine if he is a candidate for re-homing. But I say it starts with neutering!

                                      I saw one of the SPCAs on Animal Planet evaluating a dog for food aggression. They had this long pole with a fake hand on the end with which they used to pull and push a full bowl of dog food around. At first I thought "WTF?", but then the lightbulb went off! Better a fake hand get bit than a real human's hand! The dog passed with flying colors but they never said what they would do with the dog if it had failed. I don't know if food aggression can be conquered.

                                      Why don't you contact that lady on Animal Planet that does that show, "It's Me or the Dog!":
                                      http://animal.discovery.com/tv/its-me-or-dog/index.html . I've watched several shows and she has done amazing things with very nasty dogs!!!! But food agression hasn't been covered yet--sorry...
                                      "I'm not much into conspiracy theories but if everyone thinks alike you don't need a plot!" ~person from another bulletin board whose name has been long forgotten~


                                      • #20
                                        Originally posted by downthecenterlinetheycome View Post
                                        Actually, the alpha rolls were done by the recommendation of my vet. (???) No, goeslikestink, I do not 'tease' him. I will try your strategy Wendy, I did try it for a while a long time ago, but as we were in the process of moving, I wasn't very organized. He is 7 months old and very sweet otherwise, a total lovebug. As for 'outside dog', we are in SoCal, so the weather isn't exactly freezing (despite these last few weeks), and he has the option of going in the house or garage at night. He is thrilled to be outside - we bought him as a lap dog, but he turns out to be more of an 'outside dog', after all.
                                        Seven months, not neutered yet, how is his house breaking coming along?

                                        I wonder also if your home is the right one for that dog, if you are the only one that cares for him and are a kid, not the adult in charge?

                                        Many years ago vets were taught to hold a dog down to make it mind better, so maybe your vet has missed the newer methods?
                                        I would start with another vet, maybe one in a vet group that has one certified as a behaviorist, or look for a shelter that keeps dogs to rehome, not the local animal control, that most times can't give dogs with a problem any time.

                                        Young, little dogs are considerably more adoptable than larger ones, so there is a chance for him, if you have to give him up.