• Welcome to the Chronicle Forums.
    Please complete your profile. The forums and the rest of www.chronofhorse.com has single sign-in, so your log in information for one will automatically work for the other. Disclaimer: The opinions expressed here are the views of the individual and do not necessarily reflect the views and opinions of The Chronicle of the Horse.

Announcement

Collapse

Forum rules and no-advertising policy

As a participant on this forum, it is your responsibility to know and follow our rules. Please read this message in its entirety.

Board Rules

1. You’re responsible for what you say.
As outlined in Section 230 of the Communications Decency Act, The Chronicle of the Horse and its affiliates, as well Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd., the developers of vBulletin, are not legally responsible for statements made in the forums.

This is a public forum viewed by a wide spectrum of people, so please be mindful of what you say and who might be reading it—details of personal disputes are likely better handled privately. While posters are legally responsible for their statements, the moderators may in their discretion remove or edit posts that violate these rules. Users have the ability to modify or delete their own messages after posting, but administrators generally will not delete posts, threads or accounts upon request.

Outright inflammatory, vulgar, harassing, malicious or otherwise inappropriate statements and criminal charges unsubstantiated by a reputable news source or legal documentation will not be tolerated and will be dealt with at the discretion of the moderators.

2. Conversations in horse-related forums should be horse-related.
The forums are a wonderful source of information and support for members of the horse community. While it’s understandably tempting to share information or search for input on other topics upon which members might have a similar level of knowledge, members must maintain the focus on horses.

3. Keep conversations productive, on topic and civil.
Discussion and disagreement are inevitable and encouraged; personal insults, diatribes and sniping comments are unproductive and unacceptable. Whether a subject is light-hearted or serious, keep posts focused on the current topic and of general interest to other participants of that thread. Utilize the private message feature or personal email where appropriate to address side topics or personal issues not related to the topic at large.

4. No advertising in the discussion forums.
Posts in the discussion forums directly or indirectly advertising horses, jobs, items or services for sale or wanted will be removed at the discretion of the moderators. Use of the private messaging feature or email addresses obtained through users’ profiles for unsolicited advertising is not permitted.

Company representatives may participate in discussions and answer questions about their products or services, or suggest their products on recent threads if they fulfill the criteria of a query. False "testimonials" provided by company affiliates posing as general consumers are not appropriate, and self-promotion of sales, ad campaigns, etc. through the discussion forums is not allowed.

Paid advertising is available on our classifieds site and through the purchase of banner ads. The tightly monitored Giveaways forum permits free listings of genuinely free horses and items available or wanted (on a limited basis). Items offered for trade are not allowed.

Advertising Policy Specifics
When in doubt of whether something you want to post constitutes advertising, please contact a moderator privately in advance for further clarification. Refer to the following points for general guidelines:

Horses – Only general discussion about the buying, leasing, selling and pricing of horses is permitted. If the post contains, or links to, the type of specific information typically found in a sales or wanted ad, and it’s related to a horse for sale, regardless of who’s selling it, it doesn’t belong in the discussion forums.

Stallions – Board members may ask for suggestions on breeding stallion recommendations. Stallion owners may reply to such queries by suggesting their own stallions, only if their horse fits the specific criteria of the original poster. Excessive promotion of a stallion by its owner or related parties is not permitted and will be addressed at the discretion of the moderators.

Services – Members may use the forums to ask for general recommendations of trainers, barns, shippers, farriers, etc., and other members may answer those requests by suggesting themselves or their company, if their services fulfill the specific criteria of the original post. Members may not solicit other members for business if it is not in response to a direct, genuine query.

Products – While members may ask for general opinions and suggestions on equipment, trailers, trucks, etc., they may not list the specific attributes for which they are in the market, as such posts serve as wanted ads.

Event Announcements – Members may post one notification of an upcoming event that may be of interest to fellow members, if the original poster does not benefit financially from the event. Such threads may not be “bumped” excessively. Premium members may post their own notices in the Event Announcements forum.

Charities/Rescues – Announcements for charitable or fundraising events can only be made for 501(c)(3) tax-exempt organizations. Special exceptions may be made, at the moderators’ discretion and direction, for board-related events or fundraising activities in extraordinary circumstances.

Occasional posts regarding horses available for adoption through IRS-registered horse rescue or placement programs are permitted in the appropriate forums, but these threads may be limited at the discretion of the moderators. Individuals may not advertise or make announcements for horses in need of rescue, placement or adoption unless the horse is available through a recognized rescue or placement agency or government-run entity or the thread fits the criteria for and is located in the Giveaways forum.

5. Do not post copyrighted photographs unless you have purchased that photo and have permission to do so.

6. Respect other members.
As members are often passionate about their beliefs and intentions can easily be misinterpreted in this type of environment, try to explore or resolve the inevitable disagreements that arise in the course of threads calmly and rationally.

If you see a post that you feel violates the rules of the board, please click the “alert” button (exclamation point inside of a triangle) in the bottom left corner of the post, which will alert ONLY the moderators to the post in question. They will then take whatever action, or no action, as deemed appropriate for the situation at their discretion. Do not air grievances regarding other posters or the moderators in the discussion forums.

Please be advised that adding another user to your “Ignore” list via your User Control Panel can be a useful tactic, which blocks posts and private messages by members whose commentary you’d rather avoid reading.

7. We have the right to reproduce statements made in the forums.
The Chronicle of the Horse may copy, quote, link to or otherwise reproduce posts, or portions of posts, in print or online for advertising or editorial purposes, if attributed to their original authors, and by posting in this forum, you hereby grant to The Chronicle of the Horse a perpetual, non-exclusive license under copyright and other rights, to do so.

8. We reserve the right to enforce and amend the rules.
The moderators may delete, edit, move or close any post or thread at any time, or refrain from doing any of the foregoing, in their discretion, and may suspend or revoke a user’s membership privileges at any time to maintain adherence to the rules and the general spirit of the forum. These rules may be amended at any time to address the current needs of the board.

Please see our full Terms of Service and Privacy Policy for more information.

Thanks for being a part of the COTH forums!

(Revised 1/26/16)
See more
See less

padlocked gates cant get horse

Collapse
X
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • #21
    PM sent
    "Let's face it -- Beezie Madden is NOT looking over her shoulder for me anytime
    soon . . . or ever, even in her worst nightmares."


    Member, Higher Standards Leather Care Addicts Anonymous

    Comment


    • #22
      Originally posted by cloudyandcallie View Post
      Well the cop is going to say (and yes I've seen this many times over all kinds of things, cars, horses, etc.) that it's a civil case. Cop is not going to help OP get her horse if the guy says she owes money. Cop will help if she pays whatever ransom the BO wants. The principle is that if OP wants her horse, she will have to go to court to prove it's her horse, and that she doesn't owe any money. And what happens to the horse in the interim?

      We used to say in Atlanta that 50% of our criminal cases started out as civil cases because the cops weren't allowed to intervene if money was at issue.

      Locally I have not found this to be true. If you have proof that the horse legally belongs to you then the police officer will let you take your horse and tell the barn owner to file in court. They are only concerned about current ownership and not a broken or not broken contract.
      http://weanieeventer.blogspot.com/

      Comment


      • #23
        The laws about these things vary drastically from state to state. Go down to the local police precinct (with your truck and trailer). Bring proof of ownership of your horse and proof of payment. Be calm and civil. Ask that they accompany you to retrieve your property. Do so and leave immediately. If the police in your area are unwilling to get involved, hire a local lawyer immediately.

        Comment


        • #24
          Originally posted by cloudyandcallie View Post
          Because he's going to say you owe him money. If you owe him money (and don't have a contract and he pulls out that online info requiring deposit or payment for damaging fences/gates, etc) then the cop is going to say "it's a civil case" and walk away. (I was a prosecutor for over 28 yrs, a practicing atty for over 33 yrs, and I've seen it all.) If my friend had stood on principle, we'd not have gotten her horse as she said she wouldn't pay. Which is why I took the cash in hand and went there with it.

          So you take cash. When the dude says you owe him X dollars, you pull it out, get a receipt. Otherwise you might end up with an injured, or worse, horse. (I've seen that also.)

          You can always sue him in small claims court afterwards. But the important thing now is to get the horse out. Before you or the horse gets injured.
          Did this also one time. Young friend had all paperwork and receipts for paid in full board when we (my trailer) went to pick up horsie. Barn owner refused to release the horse unless the owner pre-paid the next months board. The pretty sherrif lady looked at me and said pay him which I did so that we could load the horse. The sherrif lady said she could only prevent a fight---she could not force the barn owner to release the horse by the way. Promptly went to small claims court only to have the judge, much to my surprise, charge the barn owner with fraud!

          Comment


          • #25
            C&C is the lawyer here, but I'd bring a check.

            Unlike cash, you can stop payment on it, plus it leaves a nifty paper trail when cashed.
            Originally posted by BigMama1
            Facts don't have versions. If they do, they are opinions
            GNU Terry Prachett

            Comment


            • #26
              In some (most) states, it's illegal to write a check and then put a stop payment on it without a very, VERY good reason. Like it was lost in the mail. I wouldn't recommend writing a check and then stopping it.
              COTH's official mini-donk enabler

              "I am all for reaching out, but in some situations it needs to be done with a rolled up news paper." Alagirl

              Comment


              • #27
                Originally posted by cowgurl1985 View Post
                Unfortunately for him I have text messages where he specifically said that he notified another person of these rules and not me. He can't pull out anything there is no contract
                Originally posted by cowgurl1985 View Post
                He also jus updated his website with these rules this passer week
                Originally posted by cowgurl1985 View Post
                He's sayin I owe him for a deposit not for damages . A deposit was never discussed and om pretty sure a deposit is money to hold something money you pay when you leave
                Cowgurl, with great sympathy for the crummy situation that this loser barn owner has put you in, -- you asked for advice, you've been given very good advice -- now, don't start arguing with that advice.

                It might not be what you want to hear, but it's still good advice.

                I hope it works out for you and your horse.
                http://www.facebook.com/pages/Easy-K...22998204542511
                http://www.easykeeperfarm.com

                I can ride my horses without a sharps container.

                Comment


                • #28
                  Originally posted by TheJenners View Post
                  In some (most) states, it's illegal to write a check and then put a stop payment on it without a very, VERY good reason. Like it was lost in the mail. I wouldn't recommend writing a check and then stopping it.
                  true

                  but it still leaves a paper trail cash does not. That is really handy. I mean REALLY handy.
                  Originally posted by BigMama1
                  Facts don't have versions. If they do, they are opinions
                  GNU Terry Prachett

                  Comment

                  • Original Poster

                    #29
                    I appreciate the advice. I wasn't arguing I was only trying to clarifiy things

                    Comment


                    • #30
                      "The way back machine", a web site, can give you previous versions of a web site.
                      You might find the original web page there, and it gives the date it changed. So, you can print out the current web site of the farm and last week's version.
                      It doesn't have every web site though, but it might be useful if you take him to small claims court.

                      Comment


                      • #31
                        The Jenners is right. And she's a police officer, so she knows what happens when a cop is called for this type situation. And about checks.

                        Even if you are in the right, and you write a check and stop payment, you can be arrested for "uttering a bad check." Now sure, a sympathetic judge will drop the charges later if you can prove you don't owe the money. However, in the meantime, you get rousted out of bed about 4am by a SWAT Team (yes they use SWAT teams because they have a lot of free time so they get used for stuff like this) and handcuffed and jailed and have to make bond.

                        (The step brother of one of the guy's in my office in Atlanta was SWATTED when he failed to appear in court for urinating in public in the parking lot of a nightclub.)

                        Get the horse out however you can using cash. Get a receipt, you are prepare it in advance and have the BO just sign it in front of the cop. Then you can stand on principle and sue if you want to. However, like my friend, you'll probably be so relieved at saving your horse that you will just chalk it up as a bad experience, but lucky to get the horse out in good shape. It's emotionally exhausting.

                        Comment


                        • #32
                          After you have gotten your horse out of there, please be sure to report back to us that you were successful. Also, please 'out' this sonofableep by at least posting a link to the turd's website, so anyone who reads this forum will know never to do business with him nor to recommend the place to anyone else. Good luck and keep us posted!
                          Jeanie
                          RIP Sasha, best dog ever, pictured shortly before she died, Death either by euthanasia or natural causes is only the end of the animal inhabiting its body; I believe the spirit lives on.

                          Comment


                          • #33
                            Originally posted by cloudyandcallie View Post
                            However, in the meantime, you get rousted out of bed about 4am by a SWAT Team (yes they use SWAT teams because they have a lot of free time so they get used for stuff like this) and handcuffed and jailed and have to make bond.
                            What complete and utter BS.

                            No, the court system does not use SWAT teams to arrest people for bad checks. Any type of summons like that is handled by the local Sheriff's Office, which is affiliated with the courts.

                            The only one allowed to call in SWAT is the Police Chief himself, not some bored judge who already has enough on his plate without wasting time, money, expensive training and massive firepower on somebody who bounced/put a stop payment on a check.

                            The State's Attorney is the one who will issue the summons for a bad check, not the police. Any Police Chief calling in SWAT for something stupid like that should rightfully be stripped of his job for wasting the taxpayers' money.

                            The first summons is not a bench warrant, it's merely to let the person know they're to appear in court on a certain date for a pretrial hearing. Now, if they don't bother to show up the judge will usually issue a warrant for their arrest, but no SWAT team is going to be deployed for something that minor.

                            Sweet jumping baby Jesus on a pogo stick C&C, what the hell have you been drinking/smoking/snorting to make such a ludicrous claim?
                            Homeopathy claims water can cure you since it once held medicine. That's like saying you can get sustenance from an empty plate because it once held food.

                            Comment


                            • #34
                              A contract must be signed by all parties to be considered a legal document

                              If the BO cannot produce a properly executed contract, then you don't owe him anything. Go get your horse, with bolt cutters and a replacement lock and chain. You owe BO nothing, as a deposit is refunded when the contract is up and all conditions were met. Print out the website in case he changes it again.

                              This is NOT a civil matter because there is NO CONTRACT between the parties, and you paid according to your verbal agreement and now he is trying to change the terms.
                              Man plans. God laughs.

                              Comment


                              • #35
                                OP, I started a thread here when an acquaintance's horses (that I was caring for) were padlocked into their stalls for late board. You may be able to get some additional advice from this thread, as it seems quite similar.

                                Comment


                                • #36
                                  Originally posted by arabhorse2 View Post
                                  What complete and utter BS.

                                  No, the court system does not use SWAT teams to arrest people for bad checks. Any type of summons like that is handled by the local Sheriff's Office, which is affiliated with the courts.

                                  The only one allowed to call in SWAT is the Police Chief himself, not some bored judge who already has enough on his plate without wasting time, money, expensive training and massive firepower on somebody who bounced/put a stop payment on a check.

                                  The State's Attorney is the one who will issue the summons for a bad check, not the police. Any Police Chief calling in SWAT for something stupid like that should rightfully be stripped of his job for wasting the taxpayers' money.

                                  Sweet jumping baby Jesus on a pogo stick C&C, what the hell have you been drinking/smoking/snorting to make such a ludicrous claim?
                                  I don't think you know much about police procedure. SWAT, or any or enhanced force, is not called solely based upon the offense but also the history of the accused. I've seen SWAT used to arrest a speeder who failed to show up in court because he let it be known that he would not go voluntarily and was known to be armed.

                                  Writing a check with intent to stop payment is black letter fraud. Don't do that.

                                  The OP, here, is gripping the dirty end of the stick. That sucks, but there it is. She can stand on principle and not get the horse or she can try and negotiate her way out of and get the horse. It's really about that simple.

                                  G.
                                  Mangalarga Marchador: Uma Raça, Uma Paixão

                                  Comment


                                  • #37
                                    Giulherme, I highly doubt someone with ONE bounced/stop payment check and no other offenses is going to have the SWAT team show up at their door at 4:00 a.m. and haul them away. That's ridiculous to the extreme.

                                    If they're a career criminal with a long rap sheet and a history of violent behavior then sure, send in SWAT. But for a regular, run of the mill non-violent offender? Nope, I don't believe it for one second.

                                    I do know something about court procedure, and no arrest warrants are issued immediately when it comes to something like bad checks. A summons is issued and delivered by a Sheriff's Deputy.
                                    Homeopathy claims water can cure you since it once held medicine. That's like saying you can get sustenance from an empty plate because it once held food.

                                    Comment


                                    • #38
                                      All the other bickering and ideas aside. There is always the 'going out for a ride' and simply ride off the property and not go back technique for removing your horse.

                                      Comment


                                      • #39
                                        I'd look up the relevant laws in your state before doing anything.

                                        You can set a nasty precedent by paying the money you don't owe, but he says you do. In some jurisdictions, if you pay up, you're basically agreeing you owed the money even if you really didn't and it could be difficult, if not impossible, to get it back. Just something to think about.

                                        Comment


                                        • #40
                                          Get your horse out first, any money issues can be settled in court later. As others have said, bring paperwork that ID's the horse as yours. See if you can get a police officer/deputy accompany you for your own safety. Bring bolt cutters and a replacement chain and/or lock, so you can leave the gates locked, as you found them. Provide the BO with a mailing address (can be a PO Box) for future correspondence.

                                          Comment

                                          Working...
                                          X