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Got what I needed, gracias.

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  • Got what I needed, gracias.

    I am in the midst of building a new barn, with concrete going in this week. I am interested in putting a ground tie ring in the concrete near where the cross ties will be. Has anybody done this? What is the most secure way of doing this and what hardware should I use?
    Last edited by FairWeather; Feb. 24, 2013, 07:16 AM.

  • #2
    You want to install a ring in the ground to tie horses to? Why?

    I would never actually tie a horse to the ground. Way too much risk of injury.

    I was taught that ground tying was all about training the horse to not move his feet in specific circumstances, not actually TYING to the ground. What am I missing here?


    • #3
      You DO NOT want to tie a horse to a ring in the ground! You are going to hurt him!! Even if the equipment breaks when he pulls back, that angle of pull is very dangerous to equines.

      As Simkie said, grouind tying is done by TRAINING, not restraint methods. Horse has to learn Whoa, STAND, when told, before you can THINK to get him trained to be ground tied.


      • #4
        Umm yep "ground tying" is when you drop the lead rope on the ground, and the horse "stays" like a good dog.

        NEVER tie a horse below chest height, and preferably at eye level or above if you want to prevent pull back disasters.
        APPSOLUTE CHOCKLATE - Photo by Kathy Colman


        • #5
          Jesus, no don't tie a horse to the ground.

          The hype about "tie him at eye-level or higher" is because a pulling-back horse can permanently damage the muscles in his neck if he's pulling "up" too.

          Ground tying is trained using a diligent person. A PITA to teach but great to have.
          The armchair saddler
          Politically Pro-Cat


          • #6
            I have read (Western Horseman Magazine?) about putting a training rig down in a safe place, like a round pen or similar:

            Dig a deep hole, wrap a lead rope around a piece of beam/telephone pole, bury it in the hole (again, deep enough so the horse can't pull it up) and then use it with caution and supervision....

            it's been a while, I have since gotten rid of the magazines, so I can't really check back.

            But ground tieing is a trained skill - after all, it is supposed to work when there is no bush to tie it to.


            • #7
              Maybe you are thinking of staking a horse out?
              For that, you teach a horse to walk around with a long cotton rope dragging, so it gets used to have things dragging around his feet, standing on the rope and having to back up to get released.

              Then you find some log big enough the horse can't drag it and tie it to that.
              After the horse is clearly staying out of trouble, not getting tangled in the rope, then you can use any one kind of anchor to stake the horse out when you are camping or packing supplies to camps or any other such time you want the horse to be grazing without running off.
              One old method to gentle feral horses was to stake them out where they could graze some and go get them and lead them to water, work with them and tie them again, so they learned to depend on you for the basics of life water and companionship are.
              Some native tribes used that method to start all their horses, but they may have learned that from pioneers.

              I don't see why anyone would need to stake a horse out in a barn?


              • Original Poster

                No, I'm not tying horses to the ground, but thanks for the concern.


                • #9
                  Could you explain what a ground tie ring is then? I've never heard of one.


                  • #10
                    There are different ways and rings to add to a concrete pad, but you have to decide exactly which kind you want to see how to attach it.

                    You can put embedded bigger J bolt/s, a plate with smaller J bolts welded under it to attach the ring to, we need to know more, what are you going to tie to that ring, how much pressure will it have to hold, to see what you need there in the concrete.

                    If you are going to be pulling a really heavy load from that, you may even need some deeper, well reinforced, extra footing in that spot.

                    Ask your concrete contractor about that, they do that all the time, but you will need to have an idea of the pulling weight that ring will have to take.

                    If the contractor doesn't know, he will have an engineer he works with that can tell him what he needs to put there.


                    • Original Poster

                      Those that I've seen were rings in the ground that a lead rope could loop through. And not since anybody asked, but seriously people, only a moron would tie a horse to a eye bolt in the ground in concrete. I did not ever say I was going to tie a horse to the ring.
                      FWIW, tie rings on the ground are a useful way to work with a horse with rearing problems--we run into many horses who rear when being worked on by the farrier. Most horses respond to being worked with using traditional methods, but a tie ring is very helpful if used properly for those rare souls who don't. Lead line connects to halter, feeds through ring on the ground, and stays in the handlers hands. The line stays slack unless a horse starts to go up, where a swift/downward correction can be made on a horse who might try to strike or go over. After the correction is given, the line is allowed to feed through to slackness again.
                      There is never a static tie to the ring--to do so would be negligent and would absolutely result in injury to the head/neck and anything else that got in the way of a panicking horse.
                      It allows a handler to stand out of the way of a rearing/striking horse, yet still make a safe correction without turning the horse.


                      • #12
                        I have never seen a tie ring in the ground in any of the many equestrian facilities that I have worked at.

                        You learn something new every day I guess.
                        APPSOLUTE CHOCKLATE - Photo by Kathy Colman


                        • #13
                          I have never heard of anything like that, and neither has google, apparently.

                          Were I to install such a thing, I'd likely be tempted to use the short, recessed bars I see in stalls and the induction suite at the vet's clinic, perhaps with a plate over it to prevent stuff from getting in there. Damned if I can find a picture of what I'm thinking of, though. Hit up your local surgery center and take a look at what they thread their head and tail ropes through in their recovery suite.

                          If you've had such a set up in the past, why not just build it that way again?


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Appsolute View Post
                            I have never seen a tie ring in the ground in any of the many equestrian facilities that I have worked at.

                            You learn something new every day I guess.

                            I would not want to be the farrier under a horse that decides to have it's little fit and finds itself held down.
                            Think flopping fish at the end of a line.

                            For that kind of situation, you may ask the concrete man to put a small plate with smaller J bolts embedded and maybe, say 1" under grade, so you can have someone weld to that one of those bigger D rings that swivel up.
                            So that is not a place to trip over, you can then cut some rubber mat piece that fits in there, all but where the D folds and that would keep that a bit more safe from whatever may step on it?
                            Or add a rubber mat there and just cut the place out where the D fits?


                            • #15
                              I am so fortunate that I have taken the time to teach my horses to "stay" when I place them. Mostly use it for tacking up. It is repetitive and they do learn to "stay".

                              And I would try to figure out what triggers your horses to rear/strike with the farrier. More time handling their hooves or change farriers. And there is better living through chemistry, too.


                              • Original Poster

                                I've seen a few, but didn't think to ask how they were secured. Never thought at the time that I'd have a chance to build my own barn.
                                And for crying out loud, I'm not doing this with a farrier *underneath* a horse (or even near it!)
                                Didn't realize I needed to post my resume before asking a simple question. I have a fair amount of experience (feel free to google me )
                                For those of you who answered, thank you for your input. For those of you being judgmental, these are horses who have been mishandled. And it's fix them in any way we can, or put them down because dangerous horses do not have a future, and set my organization up for liability concerns. I've used this technique on only a handful of horses. It got the point across when not much else would.
                                Glad folks take time with their horses to stand when told. I do the same and my horses are pretty awesome. Sometimes racehorses don't get that opportunity.


                                • Original Poster

                                  When I pull my own horses mane, I step on the lead rope so he won't jump on top ofme. So is this dangerous, too?


                                  • #18
                                    I think it's a little odd you're so defensive--it's an strange request, and you did not include any information in your original post at all. God knows I've been around here for awhile, and am familiar with your previous posts, and I was pretty perplexed by the question. I know you're not a crazy person, but it's really kind of a crazy request, at least how you framed it originally.

                                    But hey, you're a professional and it certainly sounds like you can use the technique effectively. It sounds like something that does need a footnote of "performed by professionals, do not try at home." I still think that checking out how your vet rigs the head and tail ropes in the recovery suite would give you a good starting point.

                                    Good luck with finding a way to make it work!


                                    • Original Poster

                                      I don't feel I'm being defensive, I'm just amazed that people always jump to the conclusion that posters are going to be doing something dangerous. It's very frustrating.
                                      I did not put a lot of information in my post because I assumed people had seen these used in their past--clearly they have not. And I haven't either--I've only seen them a few times, but it's not *that* foreign a concept. And I am more than happy to answer questions, but getting a whole lot of "advice" about how awful it is to tie horses to the ground is, well, annoying, particularly when that is not how it is to be used.
                                      Last edited by FairWeather; Feb. 22, 2013, 08:53 PM. Reason: Clarifying post


                                      • #20
                                        Well, in everyone's defense, I didn't respond to this post the first time I saw it because I also assumed what the others assumed. "Ground tie" and "near cross ties"... you really can't blame us for thinking you were going to tie a horse to the ring. I've never seen a tie ring or any kind of ring in the floor of a barn aisle and apparently very few of us have. It sounds like a question better asked of the contractor or someone knowlegeable of the load the ring would need to bear, you wouldn't want to wreck your nice new aisle by having the ring ripped out of the concrete.