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  • #21
    Well, I have never seen one, heard of one, seen one used. If you have, ask those people. And honestly- on concrete? If the horse is fighting like a marlin, do you really plan on fighting him on concrete right beside your crossties?

    That's a rhetorical Q, by the way. I can't grasp wanting this thing, and I'm not attempting to answer your question.

    Comment


    • #22
      But you did call it a "ground tie ring" in your OP, OP!

      And your equipment/technique is rare-- by your own admission.

      So cut folks some slack. They didn't get here by themselves.

      I haven't seen anyone correct a horse this way, and I'd certainly watch with an open mind. So you need a very long rope and it's loose unless the horse starts to rear and then you take hold? He hits the end of the rope (which can slide) and changes his mind? The only problem I can see is that I'd have to pull up against a horse. My shoulders hurt thinking about it. Also, don't you have to be close? Or is the rope really long?
      The armchair saddler
      Politically Pro-Cat

      Comment

      • Original Poster

        #23
        Fair enough, fair enough!
        The places where I saw them installed were years ago, I do not know the occupants any longer, or I would have asked there, of course

        I hope I am not making it seem like It involves a leveraged fight of strength, not at all. It's a very short correction being given a few feet away from any danger zone of potential flying legs. It is more used as a quick correction like one would use with a halter/rope halter or, if it's your speed, a chain shank.
        The correction is a very quick "quit!" with immediate release, where the correction is a short, straight downward pull on a halter.
        Yes, a very long, UNKNOTTED (so it can slide free of the tie ring if need be) lead rope would be used, and if you are super safety conscious, it is a good idea to have a lead on the halter in addition to the tie/ring lead, and aside from a handler giving a correction when needed, there is absolutely no pressure on the horse. Essentially, it gives you the ability to correct a horse with a short jerk on the lead and voice command without being right there ( you would be, I would say, 2 feet away).
        That said, my apologies for assuming this was something others had seen. I have seen them mainly at "reformer" or cowboy barns in the past.

        Comment

        • Original Poster

          #24
          Better way of explaining, how would you correct a horse that was leaping and rearing next to you? Same way with this thing, only you won't get plowed over

          Comment


          • #25
            Originally posted by FairWeather View Post
            Better way of explaining, how would you correct a horse that was leaping and rearing next to you? Same way with this thing, only you won't get plowed over
            could they not still spin around and squish you? I'm just thinking there is a reason they are not used more. Like good on first thought but not so much in practice?

            Comment


            • #26
              Originally posted by BumbleBee View Post
              could they not still spin around and squish you? I'm just thinking there is a reason they are not used more. Like good on first thought but not so much in practice?
              I think you would need a set of walk in stocks to make this even slightly workable, but think if you have a set of stocks you wouldn't need it.

              Comment


              • #27
                Concrete in and of itself doesn't have a lot of tensile strength. So, for example, a thinnish layer over a metal plate probably isn't going to be enough.

                You could put the metal plate under the concrete pad and a network of rebar. Have an eye bolt as thick as your thumb or so, with the eye at the top set 1/2" below your floor surface. Put a short piece of 3 or 4" pvc around it, the top of which is flush with the floor. Then, when you pour the concrete, you'll end up with a flush-mount eye bolt over which you can put a solid drain cap and rubber matting for when it's not in use. Put a nice, thick metal ring through the eye of the bolt for running your lead rope through (ring sized to tuck down inside the pvc when not in use), and you're in business. The trick is going to be sizing the pvc and lid such that it keeps dirt and water out of the hole.

                Or make something semi-permanent by bolting through a RR tie or similarly-sized treated square post (big washer or metal plate on the back side of the bolt, obviously), with the ends of the timber fastened down.

                Hrrrm. Sorry--I haven't seen one so I'm just mulling aloud.
                ---------------------------

                Comment


                • #28
                  My husband has several fittings set in the concrete inside his garage- it's like a heavy duty can, with a short length of chain inside. and a cap. They are used at times in automotive work to secure the car to the floor , I'm just saying that there is a manufactured product intended to be set in concrete, that's really heavy duty and has a safe cover for when not in use.

                  I think they are also handy for locking up rolling valueables.

                  They are called "Pulling Pots"
                  http://www.protools.ws/Frame%20Equip...oor%20Pots.htm
                  http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/s...ad.php?t=60255

                  I have wanted to set a few ground tying rings around my yard- so I can stake out my goats without worry of them getting wrapped up on a post or cinderblock (or junk car right?) And when they aren't there- it would be easy to just mow over the tie. The way I imagined doing that was to dig a posthole-and then somehow set a ring on a spike down into concrete poured in the posthole.

                  Comment


                  • #29
                    The magic of COTH, OP.
                    I guess a floor pot is what you want.
                    Tell the concrete man you need a floor pot and which kind and where.

                    Our Quonset building was initially a grain storage facility and has many of those floor pots here and there, as there were movable walls separating the grain.
                    Those walls were hung from beams and attached at the bottom to those floor pots.
                    Those also came in handy when it was empty, for the local adult ball teams practice barn, for us to attach the nets.

                    To tie horses, most anyone here uses snubbing posts, but most everyone any more has learned to work with the horses, not fight with them or let them fight themselves, so those posts are not really used any more as they were used before.

                    Comment


                    • #30
                      IMO, confining a horse that is already panicking is going to be an even bigger wreck.

                      Comment


                      • #31
                        I had one in my barn in the wash stall. The original owners were completely clueless when it came to horses (according to the neighbors and not because of the ground tie ring in the wash stall) We removed it when we bought the farm. They also used above ground PVC piping for the water supply originally. That didn't work out so well for them either.

                        Comment

                        • Original Poster

                          #32
                          Air horse, none of these horses are panicking.

                          Comment


                          • #33
                            I would think the time lag between the horse rearing, the handler pulling on the end of a minimum 12' long rope, and the horse feeling the correction would be too long for the horse to make the connection. Also, being two feet, even five feet, away from the horse puts you right in the strike zone. A rearing horse has quite a lot of reach. Better IMHO to be standing by its shoulder holding the leather part of a chain shank correctly run through the nearside ring, over the nose and up to the jowl ring. (and if your halter shifts around so the snap gets too near the eye, your halter isn't properly fitted).

                            I'd be more inclined to thumb tack water balloons to the ceiling so any rearing would at least create a surprise sudden pressure on the poll, and at best break one, mimicing the rider cracking an egg on a rearer's poll to make them think they'd been injured.
                            ~Kryswyn~ Always look on the bright side of life, de doo, de doo de doo de doo
                            Check out my Kryswyn JRTs on Facebook

                            "Life is merrier with a terrier!"

                            Comment


                            • #34
                              Ground tie, whatever.
                              Your concrete contractor should be able to have made up something on the order of a recessed cleat. There are big tie down rings that lay flat for use on truck beds like this http://www.etrailer.com/Trailer-Carg...urt/J-705.html they'd have to be welded to a unit that would be set in the concrete and reinforced, there are metal shops just about everywhere in the US where you could have some nifty one off ring made up to set in the concrete with lid for safety and cleanliness. I've also seen recessed straight bars welded onto plates, lots of attachment methods out there. OP is looking for one to run a rope in so it'll be slightly different than something you just use to hook a strap, clip or carabiner to, but if you are clear in what you want you'll get something.
                              Courageous Weenie Eventer Wannabe
                              Incredible Invisible

                              Comment


                              • #35
                                OP a horse that is
                                Originally posted by FairWeather View Post
                                leaping and rearing next to you
                                it most certainly is panicking. These are flight reactions, reactions to being stressed out and scared. If you
                                Originally posted by FairWeather View Post
                                run into many horses who rear when being worked on by the farrier
                                I would examine what you and your farrier are doing to cause horses to react like this, because this certainly isn't "normal" for me or most people. And in cases where someone else has scared a horse and it is bad for the farrier I employ a lip cord or twitch, some ace or perhaps some dormosedan, and am able to stay next to (not in front of for goodness sakes) and stay with a rearing or striking horse. If you deal with horses that are really renegades a set of shoeing stocks may be needed.

                                Running a rope through a ring on the ground (on concrete none the less) so you can gain leverage to try to pull a rearing horse down is the stupidest thing I have ever heard of. Sounds like a good way to kill a horse.

                                Comment

                                • Original Poster

                                  #36
                                  Renae, I run a program for racehorses. Many of them have NEVER been taught to stand for the farrier. Most of them learn to stand with traditional methods. Some don't, and we rely on drugs for those.
                                  Holy hell, it is NOT for leverage and it is not for pulling a rearing horse down. I feel as though I'm repeating myself. Please read what I wrote instead of making up your own stories.
                                  Kryswyn, there is no "lag". Just like there is no lag when you use a lead rope attached to a halter.
                                  With that, I got the information I needed, and am done here. Thanks to those who have Helped with genuine info, ReSomething, that is exactly what I was looking for, thanks!

                                  Comment


                                  • #37
                                    What kind of OTTBs do you have that have never been taught to stand for the farrier? I've never run into one. Cross ties, well that's a different story. Why don't you just hold them for the farrier?

                                    Comment


                                    • #38
                                      Originally posted by FairWeather View Post
                                      Renae, I run a program for racehorses. Many of them have NEVER been taught to stand for the farrier. Most of them learn to stand with traditional methods. Some don't, and we rely on drugs for those.
                                      Holy hell, it is NOT for leverage and it is not for pulling a rearing horse down. I feel as though I'm repeating myself. Please read what I wrote instead of making up your own stories.
                                      Kryswyn, there is no "lag". Just like there is no lag when you use a lead rope attached to a halter.
                                      With that, I got the information I needed, and am done here. Thanks to those who have Helped with genuine info, ReSomething, that is exactly what I was looking for, thanks!
                                      Hey, I bred, started, trained and ran race horses for many years.
                                      Those thru running we retrained for other disciplines.
                                      All learned good stable and handling manners, including hauling, vet and farrier ones, just like any other horse out there.

                                      Too bad you are getting poorly trained ones.
                                      Guess that people today don't train them right any more?

                                      Comment

                                      • Original Poster

                                        #39
                                        I'm giggling here, what do you mean "what kind" of OTTBs? We get them from the moon, mostly
                                        We do hold them for the farrier--only my old steady eddie dudes will go on cross ties.
                                        I couldn't tell you why some of them aren't worked with, but it happens a lot.

                                        Comment


                                        • #40
                                          Not that anyone cares what I think...but this sounds like a bizarre OTTB "retaining program"!! We trained race horses for over 40 years and owned a training enter after that where we broke and trained over 30 "expensive" babies every year. We NEVER came across a TB that was crazy enough to snub to the floor for any reason!! Hand held or tied off...the detrimental effects on the horse would be the same. If the horse is "that" wild...more ground education would be appropriate...not ground tie rings. Sounds like a disaster to me!!! Oh well....
                                          www.crosscreeksporthorses.com
                                          Breeders of Painted Thoroughbreds and Uniquely Painted Irish Sport Horses in Northeast Oklahoma

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