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Furious.....Neighbors dogs killed my chickens today.....

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  • The simple concept is that you shoot the dog which is harassing or destroying your livestock, or threatening you. The silent, shoot the dog, bury the dog and shut up about it, is the so called "concept" that I am speaking about. As opposed to making a determined attempt to stop it before it went haywire. The OP did not even call the agency before reporting on this whole fiasco, I am not attacking the OP but those who just recommend the wild west method. If I shot someone's dog for attacking my livestock I would notify the proper agencies that I did, and they can notify the owners. Can you wrap your mind around a better method than advocating shooting dogs as a first recourse? Suppose this was your dog, it broke out, and harassed (meaning looked at in a funny way, looked scary because of the breed) dogs, horses, chickens, etc and the very first time, without even a warning, your dog is dead. Remember, that for the want of a nail. We are part of a civilized nation, or at least I want to be.

    Your notion of "codifying into law" is not quite accurate, I don't think you can shoot a dog in most states just because it is looking at your chickies, piggies or sheepies in a funny way. Some nitwit might just believe that to be "law". Is that how you think it should go?
    "We, too, will be remembered not for victories or defeats in battle or in politics, but for our contribution to the human spirit." JFK

    Comment


    • Originally posted by Calamber View Post
      The simple concept is that you shoot the dog which is harassing or destroying your livestock, or threatening you. The silent, shoot the dog, bury the dog and shut up about it, is the so called "concept" that I am speaking about. As opposed to making a determined attempt to stop it before it went haywire. The OP did not even call the agency before reporting on this whole fiasco, I am not attacking the OP but those who just recommend the wild west method. If I shot someone's dog for attacking my livestock I would notify the proper agencies that I did, and they can notify the owners. Can you wrap your mind around a better method than advocating shooting dogs as a first recourse? Suppose this was your dog, it broke out, and harassed (meaning looked at in a funny way, looked scary because of the breed) dogs, horses, chickens, etc and the very first time, without even a warning, your dog is dead. Remember, that for the want of a nail. We are part of a civilized nation, or at least I want to be.

      Your notion of "codifying into law" is not quite accurate, I don't think you can shoot a dog in most states just because it is looking at your chickies, piggies or sheepies in a funny way. Some nitwit might just believe that to be "law". Is that how you think it should go?

      What?

      The 3rd S comes about when asshole dog 'owners' get miffed about you shooting Fido. If they don't know who, they can't come after you (and presumably finish what Dog started)

      As stated in many posts 'harassing' isn't looking funny or being a certain breed
      it's actively engaging the lifestock with the possibility of causing grave harm.

      If you can nip it in the butt before hand, fine. The more power to you, likely the method 9 out of ten here prefer. We are all for butt nipping!

      However, it becomes clear that the OP has tried that route. It only lasted a short while and AC has had many complaints...so, no nipping here.

      Ok, now you are upset with her that sh forgot that she has the option to call AC? Heck, it was a weekend. I shall forgive her for that little slip up. But she had a few dead chickens to deal with.
      AC is now in the know and we can now wait and see how it plays out.

      But seriously, does the lifestock/property owner have to wait until damages are done to deal with dogs that are not contained and controlled by their owners?! Really?
      Originally posted by BigMama1
      Facts don't have versions. If they do, they are opinions
      GNU Terry Prachett

      Comment


      • Originally posted by Calamber View Post
        The simple concept is that you shoot the dog which is harassing or destroying your livestock, or threatening you. The silent, shoot the dog, bury the dog and shut up about it, is the so called "concept" that I am speaking about. As opposed to making a determined attempt to stop it before it went haywire. The OP did not even call the agency before reporting on this whole fiasco, I am not attacking the OP but those who just recommend the wild west method. If I shot someone's dog for attacking my livestock I would notify the proper agencies that I did, and they can notify the owners. Can you wrap your mind around a better method than advocating shooting dogs as a first recourse? Suppose this was your dog, it broke out, and harassed (meaning looked at in a funny way, looked scary because of the breed) dogs, horses, chickens, etc and the very first time, without even a warning, your dog is dead. Remember, that for the want of a nail. We are part of a civilized nation, or at least I want to be.

        Your notion of "codifying into law" is not quite accurate, I don't think you can shoot a dog in most states just because it is looking at your chickies, piggies or sheepies in a funny way. Some nitwit might just believe that to be "law". Is that how you think it should go?
        Are you serious?

        I think most people would rather not shoot a dog - many livestock owners are dog owners as well, after all. But if I go outside and see some random Fido threatening one of my pets or family members, or if he turns on me, I don't care if it's his first time or fiftieth time wandering into my yard. If he won't leave or he attacks, he's getting a bullet.

        Protecting your animals, family, and yourself from a mauling and/or cruel death (I don't envision getting torn or shaken to death by Fido a humane experience) is not the same thing as standing outside playing Yosemite Sam, shooting at whatever moves onto your land. Big difference. These dogs KILLED the OP's chickens. As in, deceased, not coming back. Why are her birds worth less than the neighbor's Rotties? I don't blame her if she choses to shoot them.
        *Wendy* 4.17.73 - 12.20.05

        Comment


        • Originally posted by Calamber View Post
          Your notion of "codifying into law" is not quite accurate, I don't think you can shoot a dog in most states just because it is looking at your chickies, piggies or sheepies in a funny way. Some nitwit might just believe that to be "law". Is that how you think it should go?
          Your knowledge of the law is abysmal. This IS the law in most states.

          Comment


          • When a livestock owner is put into the situation of having to shoot a dog, I dont think most enjoy it. The blame is all on the irresponsable owners. To crimanalize the people forced into this position of having to protect their own, is wrong. The hostility needs to be directed to the people who are the cause of all these problems, "the dog owners". If my dog was out of control, such as on a neighbors property, and they shot it the blame would be none other than my own.
            Just like our eyes, our hearts have a way of adjusting to the dark.--Adam Stanley

            Comment


            • According to A/C, in my county, as long as I have livestock on my property, if a dog sets one foot on my property I can shoot it. I don't. We have roaming dogs that don't bother anyone, not the horses, the cows or my barn cat. I don't care about them.

              However, the bulldogs...I won't call A/C next time. They're goners.

              Comment


              • I think that those all up in arms over shooting a dog harassing livestock has:

                a.) never had a dog kill their pet in front of them and experienced how horrible it is.

                or

                b.) has an unnatural/and or distorted view of dogs.
                I LOVE my Chickens!

                Comment


                • Originally posted by Calamber View Post
                  Your notion of "codifying into law" is not quite accurate, I don't think you can shoot a dog in most states just because it is looking at your chickies, piggies or sheepies in a funny way. Some nitwit might just believe that to be "law". Is that how you think it should go?
                  http://apps.leg.wa.gov/RCW/default.aspx?cite=16.08.020

                  Your ignorance of law is as vast as your powers of ridiculous hyperbole.

                  Comment


                  • The debate rages on...I challenge anyone to walk a mile in my shoes, or the OP's shoes-our dog problem happened over three YEARS time-OP is over a year into hers, and the stress and anger caused over these incidents is NOT fun....Not to mention time out of work and money lost if you fight it out in court, or hire a lawyer.

                    Talk to owner...(Return dogs, first 2 times) Check.

                    Involve AC...(Catch dogs second/third time, once for biting calves, once for trying to attack horses in barn) Check.

                    Call AC again (Dogs chased me and my then YO Boxer pup onto my porch)...Dogs seized, held until court case. Check.

                    In between, dogs also had caused a neighbors chickens' (one) death (was harassing/biting? them), gone after another neighbor and his dog, and oh, almost forgot this one-almost caused school bus/bike to crash when they "playfully" ran a bicyclist into the bus path...Of course, first and only student on the bus at the time that morning was MY son, LOL...

                    I still have the FOURTEEN incident reports. I was only able to get the dogs held until the court case after I had contacted a lawyer, quickly had certified letters sent to AC/PD, First Selectman, AND the state ACO, advising of massive legal action if the dogs harassed/attacked again, due to the inaction of the Town where I live, and the sheer number of reports, with only minimal fines assessed.

                    I believe to this day those dogs were on the verge of a major attack, they were getting more aggressive each time-and our farm was the last, and favorite target.

                    I will never go the "nice guy/legal route" again. Total waste of time. The dogs will be SSS, and no regrets....except that I am a lifelong animal lover, and it will upset me greatly to shoot a dog

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by spurgirl View Post
                      The debate rages on...I challenge anyone to walk a mile in my shoes, or the OP's shoes-our dog problem happened over three YEARS time-OP is over a year into hers, and the stress and anger caused over these incidents is NOT fun....Not to mention time out of work and money lost if you fight it out in court, or hire a lawyer.

                      Talk to owner...(Return dogs, first 2 times) Check.

                      Involve AC...(Catch dogs second/third time, once for biting calves, once for trying to attack horses in barn) Check.

                      Call AC again (Dogs chased me and my then YO Boxer pup onto my porch)...Dogs seized, held until court case. Check.

                      In between, dogs also had caused a neighbors chickens' (one) death (was harassing/biting? them), gone after another neighbor and his dog, and oh, almost forgot this one-almost caused school bus/bike to crash when they "playfully" ran a bicyclist into the bus path...Of course, first and only student on the bus at the time that morning was MY son, LOL...

                      I still have the FOURTEEN incident reports. I was only able to get the dogs held until the court case after I had contacted a lawyer, quickly had certified letters sent to AC/PD, First Selectman, AND the state ACO, advising of massive legal action if the dogs harassed/attacked again, due to the inaction of the Town where I live, and the sheer number of reports, with only minimal fines assessed.

                      I believe to this day those dogs were on the verge of a major attack, they were getting more aggressive each time-and our farm was the last, and favorite target.

                      I will never go the "nice guy/legal route" again. Total waste of time. The dogs will be SSS, and no regrets....except that I am a lifelong animal lover, and it will upset me greatly to shoot a dog
                      Screw all that. Shoot the dogs and dump them on the owner's front yard.

                      Comment


                      • cabalerro....Since lovely "neighbor" is an ex con (cocaine dealer), I will find a hole somewhere on the acreage if need be

                        Comment


                        • If you google dogs and livestock you'll get much the same legal codes all over the country. There are some exceptions or differences in verbage, for example the phrase "worry" but a livestock owner has the right to shoot a dog seen harassing the livestock.

                          And "playing" is a common excuse even used by humans when they are being a bit too rough.
                          Courageous Weenie Eventer Wannabe
                          Incredible Invisible

                          Comment


                          • Spurgirl and *many* others on here have had numerous repeated problems with roaming dogs and have gone the reporting only routes. Spurgirl's posted account above is, sadly, not uncommon in the least.

                            ACOs in many areas tend to be:
                            *understaffed
                            *untrained
                            *often in position due to connections only
                            *lazy, I've had 4 in CT tell me they took their jobs due to choosing own hours and getting paid for doing next to nothing
                            *many areas don't have one

                            Courts and law enforcement often do not want to/have little time to deal with nuisance animal issues.

                            Not to mention that even a very good ACO often has his/her hands tied in what they can do for threatening behaviors without having evidence of damage done. Like other areas of the law: laws often protect the wrong ones until an actual crime has occurred. ACOs often can't prove ownership of problem dogs. ACOs very rarely are on premises at the time of trespass or harassment.

                            This is a reason the age-old SSS legal method is still in use in most areas. I woould recommend that those who do use SSS, use the last S (shut up) with the owner of the canine, but to alert and paper trail with the local authorities. A list of complaints followed by that final report leaves the shooter a paper trail and witness (ACO) in case anything does happen to their property or animals in retaliation. Which, also sadly, is not uncommon. Creepy people who don't care about frequent complaints on their loose dogs may very well decide to "pay back" the person who protected their property. The non-creeps may retaliate with harassment. Constant watching and reporting nearby neighbors for anything and everything. (which is what it seemed the dog owners in the other similar thread were doing, constant reporting of a homeowner legally target shooting on his property due to him reporting their loose dog coming onto his illegally)

                            And in the case of the other thread, that man is now being harassed by strangers due to an idiot media in the area. Hunterkiddo, Spurgirl and others should NOT have to deal with this type of intimidation and harassment by those ignorant of the laws who were completely irresponsible in the first place.

                            I highly doubt many people shoot dogs "just because." The payback for following the law is a real b*tch.
                            You jump in the saddle,
                            Hold onto the bridle!
                            Jump in the line!
                            ...Belefonte

                            Comment


                            • OP, sounds like you have a result. Hopefully the citation will make them think. If not, you have a plan. I am truly sorry for your chickens and for you having to watch it.

                              We are having an issue here with a neighbor with 15 dogs that she does not keep contained. So far they have killed a St. Bernard, a corgi and a lovely golden retriever. Despite reporting all of these to the police, their take is that as we are in the county there are no leash laws however we are perfectly OK to shoot the dog if it is on our property. To me, that is not sufficient. I don't want to shoot someone's dog, I want the neighbor and the police to do THEIR jobs. I don't want to walk around my woods with my 6yo, carrying a gun and being afraid of coming across a pack!

                              As a neighborhood group, we now have an alert system where if one of us sees the dogs out, we call each other and we ALL call into the sheriff's office to complain. We are working on the premise that if they get sufficient calls (i.e. we bombard them!) they will get so fed up they will do something. We have also sent the owner, the Sheriff and the County Court Judge certified letters explaining the situation and our fears as a group (we had 19 signatures) and pointing out that should any harm happen to a human (several of us have children) that we will have a substantial trail of documentation showing that we have constantly alerted the authorities to the issue.

                              Good luck in resolving your situation.

                              Comment


                              • Note the constant up the ante of Caballero using the most recent related incident of Spurgirl who had a hideous case of authorities not acting in defense of life and limb. So now to prove how demented you have to become, you shoot the dogs and dump them on your neighbors' lawn? This kind of insanity is what I am talking about, if law enforcement and those who are hired to take care of these kinds of matters do not step up for the people, are you going to go out into the neighborhood and become the law enforcement officer yourself? Yee haw, shoot em up cowgirl! Anyone ever heard of writing letters to your Congressman, Senator, how about even the newspaper? Is it too much trouble to become more politically active so that we can avoid this kind of crap? Spurgirl, I am truly sorry that you live in a state that takes human safety so lightly. Hopefully you can channel your anger more productively than just going out and shooting the next troublesome bunch of dogs.

                                No wonder we have the lunatic that we do in the White House.

                                For those who are confused about the legal definition of harassment,looking at something is not harassing it.This is where all kinds of shades of gray can and do happen. At the moment however, emotions run high because of numbers of dog attacks on livestock. I was never ever inferring that AC should be called when there is an ongoing attack, nor am I as abjectly so unsure of the law. If you shoot a dog that is in your yard looking at your chickens, you can probably get away with it, does that make it right and civilized? All I am saying is, number one, I would not even consider it, number two, I know the difference between harassing and looking and I for sure would not shoot a dog for simply looking at any animals. I have shot and killed a fox on my property who was acting in a very strange manner at night, advancing on me when I shone a light in her eyes, and despite a barking dog backing me up. I had had a case of rabies in a groundhog shortly before and I was taking no chances, but I do not pick up a gun and kill lightly.

                                And yes, just for those who supposedly need to know, I had a beloved goat killed (run to death) by two huskies who should never have been adopted out together by animal control to the newbie owner. I still did not want the dogs killed, and could not have killed them myself. AC ended up euthanizing both dogs even though only one had any blood on it. I was sick, I really wanted the dogs separated and sent to someone who did not live in a rural area. Beautiful, beautiful sweet young dogs who had already killed 25 chickens belonging to neighbors and should have been seized before.

                                Kate66, thank you for being the kind of human being and mother that you are, yours is such a horrible situation, I hope you get action soon.
                                Last edited by Calamber; Jan. 16, 2013, 12:54 AM.
                                "We, too, will be remembered not for victories or defeats in battle or in politics, but for our contribution to the human spirit." JFK

                                Comment


                                • DH resolved free running dog situation within months of moving into our farmette community. A neighbor's two JR had our cat by a front and a back leg in the process of pulling her apart. DH fired 2 shots into the ground causing the JR's to drop the cat and depart.

                                  Cat was taken to the vet, she ultimately died from the wounds.

                                  Later that day DH attended the annual home-owners meeting, I missed it due to work.
                                  Anyway, DH recounted the attack and his actions. He advised everyone that should this happen again, the animals would be shot and buried PERIOD.
                                  All of our neighbors installed and maintain invisible fences.

                                  Lucky them - they were able to enjoy their dogs.
                                  Not so lucky us - our cat was killed.
                                  Have no desire to destroy anyone else's animal.
                                  However. . . I have no intention of standing by while my family and/or my animals are injured or worse killed by someone else's uncontrolled animals.
                                  "Never do anything that you have to explain twice to the paramedics."
                                  Courtesy my cousin Tim

                                  Comment


                                  • Originally posted by Calamber View Post
                                    Note the constant up the ante of Caballero using the most recent related incident of Spurgirl who had a hideous case of authorities not acting in defense of life and limb. So now to prove how demented you have to become, you shoot the dogs and dump them on your neighbors' lawn? This kind of insanity is what I am talking about, if law enforcement and those who are hired to take care of these kinds of matters do not step up for the people, are you going to go out into the neighborhood and become the law enforcement officer yourself? Yee haw, shoot em up cowgirl! Anyone ever heard of writing letters to your Congressman, Senator, how about even the newspaper? Is it too much trouble to become more politically active so that we can avoid this kind of crap? Spurgirl, I am truly sorry that you live in a state that takes human safety so lightly. Hopefully you can channel your anger more productively than just going out and shooting the next troublesome bunch of dogs.
                                    The law is crystal clear. Whether you agree with it or not is irrelevant.

                                    Comment


                                    • Originally posted by fooler View Post
                                      A neighbor's two JR had our cat by a front and a back leg in the process of pulling her apart.
                                      Calamber, you're damn right I'd "take the law in my own hands"

                                      Comment


                                      • The moment between looking at a chicken and killing a chicken can be short. It's an armed unpredictable predator and we are suppose to just watch it and somehow intervene right before that moment when it goes bad. You don't shoot the dog because you are pissed off at the neighbor or the dog as some sort of retailiation. You shot the dog because its going to eat your chicken while you are on the phone to call someone to take care of the problem.

                                        And to the poster who questioned my statement that the dog wasn't so innocent, yes, I would sue the dog and call his friends as character witnesses and my chickens as witnesses. My point was if a dog has killed a chicken, cat or whatever, chances are it's more likely to do it again. And when it escapes in 2 years, your chicken house might be the first place it goes.

                                        Lastly, the time I take picking up my trash cans that once again have been spread all over my lawn on trash day, re-enforcing my fencing, cleaning OP dogs poop off my front lawn - makes me testy on this subject. Nothing like having a dead animal, but seriously, loose dogs in the neighborhood can make the neighborly thing old real quick.

                                        Comment


                                        • Note the constant up the ante of Caballero using the most recent related incident of Spurgirl who had a hideous case of authorities not acting in defense of life and limb. So now to prove how demented you have to become, you shoot the dogs and dump them on your neighbors' lawn? This kind of insanity is what I am talking about, if law enforcement and those who are hired to take care of these kinds of matters do not step up for the people, are you going to go out into the neighborhood and become the law enforcement officer yourself? Yee haw, shoot em up cowgirl! Anyone ever heard of writing letters to your Congressman, Senator, how about even the newspaper? Is it too much trouble to become more politically active so that we can avoid this kind of crap? Spurgirl, I am truly sorry that you live in a state that takes human safety so lightly. Hopefully you can channel your anger more productively than just going out and shooting the next troublesome bunch of dogs.

                                          Writing to your congressman and senator take a little long, the dog will probably have eaten your chickens by the time you get a reply.
                                          And I know a couple of us on this and the other thread are active lobbyists. Are you? I am.
                                          Spurgirl...channel your (justifiable) anger into writing letters, don't shoot the next dogs that show up to eat your chickens. Chickens aren't cute and cuddle like a doggie.


                                          No wonder we have the lunatic that we do in the White House.

                                          And Caballero was upping the ante? Nope, no dramatic hyperbole here.
                                          For those who are confused about the legal definition of harassment,looking at something is not harassing it.This is where all kinds of shades of gray can and do happen. At the moment however, emotions run high because of numbers of dog attacks on livestock. I was never ever inferring that AC should be called when there is an ongoing attack, nor am I as abjectly so unsure of the law. If you shoot a dog that is in your yard looking at your chickens, you can probably get away with it, does that make it right and civilized? All I am saying is, number one, I would not even consider it, number two, I know the difference between harassing and looking and I for sure would not shoot a dog for simply looking at any animals. I have shot and killed a fox on my property who was acting in a very strange manner at night, advancing on me when I shone a light in her eyes, and despite a barking dog backing me up. I had had a case of rabies in a groundhog shortly before and I was taking no chances, but I do not pick up a gun and kill lightly.
                                          Yes, many of us know the exact legal definition of harassment. And worrying. And anything else pertaining to the laws we lobby for. From reading your posts, you do not. Just because you would not use legal recourse in a situation does not mean everyone else has to abide by your misguided wishes.

                                          And yes, just for those who supposedly need to know, I had a beloved goat killed (run to death) by two huskies who should never have been adopted out together by animal control to the newbie owner. I still did not want the dogs killed, and could not have killed them myself. AC ended up euthanizing both dogs even though only one had any blood on it. I was sick, I really wanted the dogs separated and sent to someone who did not live in a rural area. Beautiful, beautiful sweet young dogs who had already killed 25 chickens belonging to neighbors and should have been seized before.

                                          Dogs ran your goat to death. And only one had blood on it? From what? Running? They were repeatedly loose and previously killed 25 chickens too? Obviously, then, following the "report" route didn't work so well, did it?
                                          And you wanted those dogs seperated and adopted out???? Holy WTH! Do you have ANY working knowledge of huskies or dogs in general beyond They're Pretty? Sure, send them to the 'burbs. Huskies aren't known for cat and small dog killing when raised badly. (I've had numerous northern breeds and run sled teams in the past)
                                          People like this are horrifying in their ignorance.
                                          Kate66, thank you for being the kind of human being and mother that you are, yours is such a horrible situation, I hope you get action soon.
                                          You jump in the saddle,
                                          Hold onto the bridle!
                                          Jump in the line!
                                          ...Belefonte

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