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Furious.....Neighbors dogs killed my chickens today.....

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  • #61
    Originally posted by Katy9532 View Post
    While I am a dog owner, chicken owner, and gun owner, I cannot support the decision to kill a dog over a chicken.
    Me either, but I would kill the dog over the second chicken.
    ::Sometimes you have to burn a few bridges to keep the crazies from following you::

    Comment


    • #62
      Originally posted by chisamba View Post
      I too would be very upset if some ones dog attacked my chickens, i love my chickens, but I would still follow the course i suggested, rather then shoot the dogs myself. Why not call the police? I never said you had to call nine one one, but you definitely should call the police and/ or the animal control before choosing to take the law into your own hand. Of course some of you seem to glorify the act of shooting a dog, hey just reload and shoot again if you are a lousy shot, yeah, thats nice. Its not the dogs fault. It takes a psychopathology to do that without feeling like shit, and i assume our OP despite her anger about the chickens, is not a sociopath.
      If a dog is killing my animals, I am not going to stand by and watch until the police/animal control can find time to come out. I don't think anybody on here is glorifying killing a dog. I would guess most people would be physically sick at having to kill one. I know I was when we shot the neighors dog while it was trying to pull my rabbits feet through the bottom of the hutches. But I am NOT going to stand by and watch a dog kill my animals. I have mini horses and I worry about loose dogs getting to them even though I have them confined behind two fences. If I ever found a dog going after my minis, I would shoot it. I am sorry, but I love my mini horses dearly and I am not going to let a dog hurt or kill them. I am lucky that loose dogs are an occasional problem for me. Some people deal with it day after day and suffer losses to livestock/pets. Those people may come across sounding like they are glorifying killing a dog because they are just so ticked off and fed up with the whole thing. And I can definitely relate to that.

      Comment


      • #63
        To those suggesting paint ball, pellet, or even rock salt to shoot a dog with, that is actually considered abuse and you can be charged.
        Depends on circumstances and state/county.

        In many areas it's perfectly legal to deter with external force (non-piercing) if the dog is actively harassing livestock.

        A lot of people will use a paintball, rubber ammo, pepperball or bean bag rounds...at a dog under, next to or attached to your livestock while both run around/struggle. This way you don't kill/seriously injure your own animal trying to deter the other one.

        It's a viable alternative to piercing ammunition. Safer for livestock, misses/travelling bullets and even for the dog harassing the animals. It can also be something a novice shooter is more comfortable handling.

        I've used one a lot more often than I've used a "regular" firearm. I do prefer to deter as opposed to kill if possible.

        However I also do not have small outside animals and I've always ended up with at least one dog-hating horse on premises. So if I shoot a dog entering a paddock, it's to get him away before one of my horses does really bad things to it. It's for the dog's protection actually.

        As for loose dogs and us firearm owners who will/have lethally shot dogs...
        It takes a psychopathology to do that without feeling like shit, and i assume our OP despite her anger about the chickens, is not a sociopath.
        please do not throw around mental diagnoses online that you obviously do not have experience in.

        We have one wandering neighborhood dog...Buddy...who doesn't bother anyone/anything except for marking your property on his way through and sometimes crapping in spots you don't want him to. He's very nervous...if you just nicely say his name, he tucks tail and runs. I still worry he'll be hit by a car sooner or later.
        We had another wandering neighborhood dog. That problem was fixed...he lives with me now for the last 2 years. Now he's an indoor dog enjoying his retirement very much. He's under my chair right now, snoring and farting.

        Lucky me.

        We've had others, they disappear rather fast though. Wildlife, cars, territorial other dogs or livestock and livestock owners.
        You jump in the saddle,
        Hold onto the bridle!
        Jump in the line!
        ...Belefonte

        Comment


        • #64
          [QUOTE=MistyBlue;6779960]Depends on circumstances and state/county.

          In many areas it's perfectly legal to deter with external force (non-piercing) if the dog is actively harassing livestock.

          A lot of people will use a paintball, rubber ammo, pepperball or bean bag rounds...at a dog under, next to or attached to your livestock while both run around/struggle. This way you don't kill/seriously injure your own animal trying to deter the other one.

          It's a viable alternative to piercing ammunition. Safer for livestock, misses/travelling bullets and even for the dog harassing the animals. It can also be something a novice shooter is more comfortable handling.



          I got this information on a chicken board. When someone suggested shooting with a pellet gun or something non lethal, they could pull up the law stating how and why it was against the law and that someone doing it could be charged with cruelty to animals. Sad really because that would leave the person no choice but to shoot to kill.

          Of course if the dog owner doesn't know who did it, they can't charge anyone with anything.

          I do have a neighbor who will use rock salt. Not sure why no one has complained about it. He has an arsenal that he regularly practices with so they probably figure better rock salt than something more permanent.

          Comment


          • #65
            Where I live there is county Animal Control, through the Sheriff's Department. When I lived inside the city limits we had AC, but many places outside city limits don't have AC, and don't have any enforcement or dog pound. Not everyone lives where there is enforcement available for problem animals, and that's just reality. There were entire counties where I used to live that had no animal control services at all.
            You can't fix stupid-Ron White

            Comment


            • #66
              Cattle owner, goat owner and horse owner here. Shooting a dog would be my last resort for two reasons:

              1) It's a good way to piss off your neighbors. All they have to do to get back at us is snip the wire on our fences; and
              2) Hollering, stone-chucking and a furious farm dog are normally sufficient to chase strange dogs off with no shots fired.

              There has only been one exception to #2. We lost seven kids, all less than a week old, to two dogs that we'd never seen before. We called the neighbors, but no one admitted having dogs that answered that description or even having seen them.

              However, on those same calls, we made it clear the dogs would be shot on sight if they were ever on our property again (we were within our rights to do so). *Poof* doggies never appeared again.

              OP, I'm really sorry this happened. As others have said, file a report with your local law enforcement agency that includes the replacement value of your animals, demand restitution from the neighbors and tell them their dogs will be harmed if they're on your/your inlaw's property again. Whether you actually want to go the rifle route is up to you.

              ETA -- just saw Misty Blue's response. Not harming our own livestock is Reason #3 for not shooting dogs. A .22 bullet can travel up to a mile and still do damage.

              Also, we have three dog-hating horses. They go after stray canines with their front feet, no questions asked. Unfortunately, they weren't around during the kid-killing episode or those dogs would have died.
              __________________________
              "... if you think i'm MAD, today, of all days,
              the best day in ten years,
              you are SORELY MISTAKEN, MY LITTLE ANCHOVY."

              Comment


              • #67
                Just one thought I haven't seen suggested, would a large, humane trap work? Then you could catch them and bring them to the humane society. Yes, I know a Rottie is a big dog, but in general is there a reason a person couldn't trap them?

                That would be my first choice, I guess.

                Sorry about your chickens OP.
                DIY Journey of Remodeling the Farmette: http://weownblackacre.blogspot.com/

                Comment


                • #68
                  Humane traps that size are really expensive.

                  Comment


                  • #69
                    Originally posted by chisamba View Post
                    I too would be very upset if some ones dog attacked my chickens, i love my chickens, but I would still follow the course i suggested, rather then shoot the dogs myself. Why not call the police? I never said you had to call nine one one, but you definitely should call the police and/ or the animal control before choosing to take the law into your own hand. Of course some of you seem to glorify the act of shooting a dog, hey just reload and shoot again if you are a lousy shot, yeah, thats nice. Its not the dogs fault. It takes a psychopathology to do that without feeling like shit, and i assume our OP despite her anger about the chickens, is not a sociopath.
                    That is not the dog's fault? Give the canines a bit more credit, will you? They aren't that stupid, really. It is hard wired by million years of evolution in their brains that if they trespass anything, they run a real risk of being slaughtered. They KNOW.

                    We have neighboring dogs roaming on our property all the time. I never had any problem with any of them except for one, who killed more than 30 of my guineas in two years. We didn't shoot it, because we din't have a gun, and are good friends with the owner - they are actually nice people. If we did own a gun, and were not friendly with the owner to begin with, I would not hesitate to shoot that thing. They eventually got rid of it.

                    Yesterday we had to rescue one strange dog, which had got into our yard, from my Maremma (LGD). If it had attacked any of our animals, I would have let my Maremma have a merry field trip.

                    I also don't think it a good idea to send a confirmed livestock killers to pound. First it is cruelty for the dog to be all the sudden be confined in a strange, scary place; second, it is awfully unfair to the new owner, if it got adopted, to have a confirmed livestock killers at their hands. There are many nice dogs that need home. Send this to its "permanent" home.

                    If my dog becomes a livestock killer, I would very much appreciate it if the neighbor kindly put a bullet in its head. It will be extremely difficult for me to shoot my own dog.

                    Comment


                    • #70
                      A trap works for curious wandering dogs. It won't do anything for a dog that comes onto the property to investigate and/or harass other animals. A rottie sized trap is expensive if you can find one. Not to mention you'll probably catch everything but the dog.

                      But it is a possible solution to wandering dogs that you can't otherwise catch.
                      You jump in the saddle,
                      Hold onto the bridle!
                      Jump in the line!
                      ...Belefonte

                      Comment


                      • #71
                        Originally posted by dacasodivine View Post
                        To those suggesting paint ball, pellet, or even rock salt to shoot a dog with, that is actually considered abuse and you can be charged.
                        Only if you can prove who did it.

                        Comment


                        • #72
                          Originally posted by MistyBlue View Post
                          A trap works for curious wandering dogs. It won't do anything for a dog that comes onto the property to investigate and/or harass other animals. A rottie sized trap is expensive if you can find one. Not to mention you'll probably catch everything but the dog.

                          But it is a possible solution to wandering dogs that you can't otherwise catch.
                          well, should you do catch him, you can use eau de Skunk...maybe that will curb the roaming...
                          Originally posted by BigMama1
                          Facts don't have versions. If they do, they are opinions
                          GNU Terry Prachett

                          Comment


                          • #73
                            Originally posted by mp View Post
                            Cattle owner, goat owner and horse owner here. Shooting a dog would be my last resort for two reasons:

                            1) It's a good way to piss off your neighbors. All they have to do to get back at us is snip the wire on our fences;
                            At the point I am shooting at the dog, I am the pissed off neighbor. How they feel isn't really relevant to me.

                            In NYS, a dog harrassing or killing livestock is against the law. SSS
                            ::Sometimes you have to burn a few bridges to keep the crazies from following you::

                            Comment


                            • #74
                              Originally posted by Gloria View Post
                              That is not the dog's fault? Give the canines a bit more credit, will you? They aren't that stupid, really. It is hard wired by million years of evolution in their brains that if they trespass anything, they run a real risk of being slaughtered. They KNOW.
                              Really? No, just no. Dogs understand when a dog has a territory, but don't understand tresspass in human terms.

                              We have neighboring dogs roaming on our property all the time. I never had any problem with any of them except for one, who killed more than 30 of my guineas in two years.
                              the owners were lucky. Truly. I would not lose that much livestock to a loose, ranging dog on my property. A good friend wouldn't let that happen more than once, possibly twice.

                              Comment


                              • #75
                                Originally posted by paulaedwina View Post
                                You live in Pennsylvania, OP. It's an SSS state. I think if you don't have any recourse for menacing dogs you need to take care of your animals. I'd give the dog warden a call first, just to have some kind of precedent.

                                Paula
                                You will need to call the Pa Department of Agriculture- Dog/Vicious Dog department. They may do an investigation and cite- but my experience is that it takes a while for anything to happen. There is also a law and procedure concerning reimbursement for dog damage. Check the site out for more info.

                                You would shoot a coyote or fox in the same scenario- why hesitate with the habitual offender dogs?

                                Sorry for your loss, I've been there too.

                                Pa dept of AG-Dog Law Enforcement Office
                                (717) 787-3062
                                Last edited by Pa Rural; Jan. 14, 2013, 03:29 PM. Reason: adding info

                                Comment


                                • #76
                                  Originally posted by Alagirl View Post
                                  well, should you do catch him, you can use eau de Skunk...maybe that will curb the roaming...

                                  now THAT's a splendid idea. For the first offense.

                                  Comment


                                  • #77
                                    Originally posted by threedogpack View Post
                                    Really? No, just no. Dogs understand when a dog has a territory, but don't understand tresspass in human terms.



                                    the owners were lucky. Truly. I would not lose that much livestock to a loose, ranging dog on my property. A good friend wouldn't let that happen more than once, possibly twice.
                                    Since I'm posting on a "human" forum, surely I should use human term, "trespassing", no? If we want to get technical, yes, dogs understand territory, and that includes "human territory." It is simple: if they keep at their own territory, which is protected by their owners, they are safe; if they venture out of the protection of their owners, or in the wild, the protection of their own pack, they run the risk of being slaughtered by others protecting their own territory, either other packs of dogs/wolves/coyotes/lions, or other humans, which are also packs of animals.

                                    As to that dog that killed our guineas, yeah, it got really, really close being shot ...

                                    Comment


                                    • #78
                                      Originally posted by SmartAlex View Post
                                      At the point I am shooting at the dog, I am the pissed off neighbor. How they feel isn't really relevant to me.

                                      In NYS, a dog harrassing or killing livestock is against the law. SSS
                                      Dear, it's not that I'm NOT angry about it. But my first choice is to use non-lethal means, then let the owner know of my intentions if it happens again.

                                      We live within the city limits. We are the only people on our road with livestock. We are the only ones with enough ground to have livestock.

                                      Most of our neighbors are long-time friends and acquaintances who are understanding if the occasional stray calf winds up in their front yard.

                                      Others, however, resent that we have been grandfathered in as an ag operation (my husband's family has farmed here for 90 years). If we get into a pissing match with them, all they have to do is snip the wire on an outside fence and we'll have 20 heifers running down the road. Or six yearling bulls. Or whatever happens to be in that pasture.

                                      This has never happened and we'd like to keep it that way.

                                      If your choice is to shoot first, that's your right. For us, a little neighborly warning (and restraint) has been a better strategy.
                                      __________________________
                                      "... if you think i'm MAD, today, of all days,
                                      the best day in ten years,
                                      you are SORELY MISTAKEN, MY LITTLE ANCHOVY."

                                      Comment


                                      • #79
                                        Like most people who have lived in the country or worked on farms, I have dozens and dozens of livestock/loose dog incidents to relate.

                                        I have heard "Fido didn't mean any harm/just wanted to play." and "We moved to the country because we wanted the dog to be able to run." more times that I can count, and am heartily sick of it. And I have fostered and rescued dogs, and returned lots of non-agressive but wandering dogs to their owners.

                                        I would hate to shoot a neighbor's dog, but I absolutely would if they wouldn't restrain it and my livestock (horses, dogs, cats, chickens) was at risk.

                                        As an interesting side note, the very first time I had a loose/agressive dog problem and called AC to find out what my options were, AC told me not only was I within my rights to shoot the dog, if I had a gun and knew how to use it, they *preferred* that I shot the dog and viewed it as my performing my civic duty.

                                        Dogs that kill livestock usually continue to kill/escalate, and AC informed that they could rarely respond to the complaint in time to catch or shoot the dog. Their view was that if more landowners shot nuisance dogs and livestock killers when appropriate, we wouldn't have feral dog packs and large scale livestock loss that the county might have to reimburse for.

                                        That conversation ended with the AC officer saying "Please shoot the dog; you'll be doing us all a favor."
                                        Last edited by McGurk; Jan. 14, 2013, 10:22 PM.
                                        The plural of anecdote is not data.

                                        Comment


                                        • #80
                                          Originally posted by TheHunterKid90 View Post
                                          Neighbor (sort of, they live about a mile away) has two dogs who have caused issues with us and neighbors in the past....they've been on our property chasing our birds although never killed any before today.
                                          Another neighbor had a problem with the dogs wrecking havoc at her house as well.
                                          Now today, I look out my in laws window and the Rotweiler is running across the driveway with one of my pet roosters in it's mouth.
                                          My brother in law blew out of the house with his .17 and fired a few warning shots....enough to scare the dogs off, but I've had it.

                                          I called the owners who were very apolegetic but openly admitted that even though they've recieved many complaints, they still don't tie the dogs up...

                                          So, is this an issue I can raise to our local animal control officer?
                                          I'm really fed up having to worry about my animals who stay on our property.

                                          And I'd like to try to be civil about it now because I can't promise that I won't shoot them if they come after my animals again.
                                          Oh man that's really awful. I would definitely report it so these people have a record of owner negligence. If they come on your property again, I would either try to capture (if you can) and if you can't catch--SSS. Did the owners ever offer to compensate your loss?
                                          I LOVE my Chickens!

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