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Tifton 85 producing cyanide gas and killing cattle?!

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  • Tifton 85 producing cyanide gas and killing cattle?!

    How crazy is this?

    http://www.foodrenegade.com/mutated-...ills-cattle-2/

    WILD.

  • #2
    I saw that, then googled a few things. Hopefully someone else can chime in but first of all, I don't see how Tifton 85 is a "GMO" or "mutated" when everything I'm pulling up says it is a hybrid between two other grasses - just crossed. So that's my first source of confusion. Is there an actual Tifton 85 that is a GMO? Did the grass really "mutate" and does it need to be killed off and replanted? Because that's not the impression I'm getting from what I'm looking up, but that's what all these articles about the cow deaths suggest.

    I'm also finding information that suggests that producing cyanide gas happens in many grasses when the environmental stressors are there, and would love to know exactly how that happens (sorry, Biology major here and never heard of that... wondering when/where it happens in the plant!) haven't really had time to do enough searches on it.

    Comment


    • #3
      Guess what happens when your horse eats wilted cherry leaves. And they will eat them.

      Switchgrass and Johnsongrass are also very toxic under certain conditions.
      Brothers and sisters, I bid you beware
      Of giving your heart to a dog to tear.
      -Rudyard Kipling

      Comment


      • #4
        Tift 85 was developed down in Tifton at the GA Ag Lab, wasn't it?

        I suggest that anyone interested should contact the lab down there, during week days, and ask them about the article posted by OP.

        Cloudy and Callie ate the Tift 85 grown within 60 miles of Savannah from 2002 through 2005 at 2 barns. I think I'll given Mr. Hart, the growner, a call this week and ask him about this although my horses don't board where his hay is used now.

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by oldpony66 View Post
          I saw that, then googled a few things. Hopefully someone else can chime in but first of all, I don't see how Tifton 85 is a "GMO" or "mutated" when everything I'm pulling up says it is a hybrid between two other grasses - just crossed. So that's my first source of confusion. Is there an actual Tifton 85 that is a GMO? Did the grass really "mutate" and does it need to be killed off and replanted? Because that's not the impression I'm getting from what I'm looking up, but that's what all these articles about the cow deaths suggest.

          I'm also finding information that suggests that producing cyanide gas happens in many grasses when the environmental stressors are there, and would love to know exactly how that happens (sorry, Biology major here and never heard of that... wondering when/where it happens in the plant!) haven't really had time to do enough searches on it.

          We have that happened, driving a herd of 300+ heifers across a ditch.
          They gobbled the pigweeds in there as fast as they could and it happened that those had grown just right to be poisonous and five died before we could get them all across that ditch.
          It is a terrible situation.
          Grass or weeds can be poisonous at times when you don't expect it, so can't prevent it.

          Here, everyone knows to watch for that with the cane type grasses.
          When you bale haygrazer, you don't want to feed it right off because of that.
          After a week or two the cyanide is gone, but you may still have nitrate poisoning.
          We always get those kinds of hay tested for both.

          I don't know why that grass was affected, wonder if there was other in there they ate that did it?
          I don't think that 15 years ago they would have any GMO grasses.
          I don't think they have them today.
          I wonder if the reporter just misunderstood hybrid for GMO, may not even know the difference.

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by oldpony66 View Post
            I'm also finding information that suggests that producing cyanide gas happens in many grasses when the environmental stressors are there, and would love to know exactly how that happens (sorry, Biology major here and never heard of that... wondering when/where it happens in the plant!) haven't really had time to do enough searches on it.
            http://www.extension.iastate.edu/Cro...12barnhart.htm

            Comment


            • #7
              Sometimes hybridizing a plant species can produce very unexpected results. Modern dwarf wheat is a good example. Never genetically modified like a GMO but they managed to breed entirely new characteristics into the plant (other than being dwarf) such as changes to the gluten proteins which has led to the 4x incidence of gluten intolerance in people today versus prior to 1980. Some techniques such as irradiating seeds can lead to unusual mutations.

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by Daydream Believer;
                dwarf wheat ... changes to the gluten proteins which has led to the 4x incidence of gluten intolerance in people today versus prior to 1980..
                Do you have references on this? And what percentage of wheat on the market, in human food products, is Dwarf wheat.
                Google brings up vary different stats for gluten intolerance as a percentage of population. It "appears to me" that the higher stats belong to non scientific sources selling something.
                However I anecdotally now know of more people with celiac.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by Chall View Post
                  Do you have references on this?
                  http://current.com/green/90340184_st...n-disorder.htm

                  This little article references a scientific publication (which I did not look for):
                  http://resource.wur.nl/en/wetenschap..._todays_bread/

                  This is not a scientific publication but mentions that 99% of the wheat grown is dwarf wheat.

                  http://www.examiner.com/article/mons...u-sick-and-fat

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Hmmmmm, that's worrisome, but I live in Tifton

                    and the place that created Tift 85 and about 10000 other things, is about 2 miles from my house. My horses don't really like the 85 hay over the common and alicia that grows "wild" here, so I don't feed it. I'll investigate after next week (my last week in school) and report back. I sent the article to my hay grower here, that also has a few T85 fields, maybe he can help with any info.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      All about Tift 85; http://www.tifton.uga.edu/fat/tifton85.htm

                      Why believe loonies ?
                      ... _. ._ .._. .._

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        I wonder if the several year drought in Texas had something to do with it. Yes, they got the GM part wrong...I hate it when journalists aren't thorough. Fact check everything!

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by LauraKY View Post
                          I wonder if the several year drought in Texas had something to do with it. Yes, they got the GM part wrong...I hate it when journalists aren't thorough. Fact check everything!
                          Ok, I checked some and here is one article:

                          http://forages.oregonstate.edu/fi/to...cacidpoisening

                          I am surprised that the Tifton grass is the cause.
                          I would bet some other is more probable, but the vet and lab that did the necropsies ought to know.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Chall View Post
                            Do you have references on this? And what percentage of wheat on the market, in human food products, is Dwarf wheat.
                            Yes, I do. I can write a few of them here for you, and if you buy the book "Wheat Belly," it is full of scientific references. I believe you'll find the vast vast majority of wheat grown today is the dwarf variety..at least in the US. Semonlina and Durum are still grown for pastas and some of the very old varieties like Einkorn and Emmer can still be found as artisanal varieties but they are hard to find.

                            Interestingly the dwarf varieties started to be grown in large quantities right about the 1985, gained to take over nearly the entire crop annually and shortly afterwards American's waistline exploded. This variety of wheat also has a compound that acts like an opiate and appetite stimulant..much more potent than older varieties. Wheat has a higher glycemic index than sugar also...very carb dense...and now you find it in everything...believe I know as I have to read every label on all food I buy. It hides under a lot of other names also so it can be very misleading if you are just looking for "wheat" on a label.

                            One reference for the glutens:

                            Song X ,Ni Z. Yao Y et al. Identification of differentially expressed proteins between hybrid and parents in wheat (Tritucum aestivum L.) seeding leaves. Theor Appl Genet 2009 Jan118(2):213-25

                            Gao X, Liu SW, Sun Q, Xia GM. High frequency of HMW-GS sequence variation through somatic hybridization between Agropyron elongatum and common wheat. Plant 2010 Jan;23(2):245-50.

                            Fan den Broeck HC, de Jong HC, Salentijn EM et al. Presence of celiac disease epitopes in modern and old hyxaploid wheat varieties: wheat breeding may have contributed to increased prevalence of celiac disease. Theor Appl Genet 2010 Jul 28.

                            There's a couple for you. The book is fascinating and worth a read if you are interested in that sort of thing. It's written by a Cardiologist, author is William Davis, MD.

                            BTW, I suffer from Celiac Disease and I know of a lot of people actually diagnosed. For each person diagnosed, there are many many more who have no idea. The incidence of Celiac and Gluten Sensitivity has quadrupled in the last decades.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Tift 85 has been around since 1983. There have been droughts between 1983 and 2012. The whole story is not being told. No mention was made of how the field had been treated during or after the drought. This is the worst kind of sansationalism masquerading as journalism. It's the equivalent of adding 1+1 and coming up with 101 because you think it's a magic number.
                              ... _. ._ .._. .._

                              Comment


                              • #16
                                I beg to disagree a little on dwarf wheat history.
                                All the wheat strains here since the 1940's are considered dwarf dryland wheat.
                                We used Concho for many years, some still do.
                                Not very good yields at the rate we sow wheat here, 1/2 lb/acre, but at least some yields, when no other wheat makes it in the droughts we have.

                                We generally can get 22 bushel/acre, good weight, testing high in protein, in "normal" years, have had up to 37 b/ac tops in a great year, 1984 and in bad years still can get from 12 to 17 b/ac.
                                We have saved our own wheat all these years, as has everyone around here that uses those strains.
                                We also have used other varieties, several TAM ones, for grazing beardless strains are best.

                                Comment


                                • #17
                                  Originally posted by Daydream Believer View Post
                                  Sometimes hybridizing a plant species can produce very unexpected results. Modern dwarf wheat is a good example. Never genetically modified like a GMO but they managed to breed entirely new characteristics into the plant (other than being dwarf) such as changes to the gluten proteins which has led to the 4x incidence of gluten intolerance in people today versus prior to 1980. Some techniques such as irradiating seeds can lead to unusual mutations.
                                  and this is why i gained seventy lbs on the american heart association diet!
                                  i was eating plenty of bread and pasta with no oil or fat as recomended and i kept getting bigger and bigger. my stomach was so bloated (and i felt terrible) that i looked ready to deliver twins.
                                  eliminating wheat from my diet was such a relief!

                                  Comment


                                  • #18
                                    Originally posted by suz View Post
                                    and this is why i gained seventy lbs on the american heart association diet!
                                    i was eating plenty of bread and pasta with no oil or fat as recomended and i kept getting bigger and bigger. my stomach was so bloated (and i felt terrible) that i looked ready to deliver twins.
                                    eliminating wheat from my diet was such a relief!
                                    The new guidelines don't exclude fats any more, although they should be, as all else, consumed in moderation.
                                    They do go light on simple carbohydrates, sugars mostly.
                                    Here is a short take on that:

                                    http://www.scientificamerican.com/ar...against-cardio

                                    Comment


                                    • #19
                                      Originally posted by suz View Post
                                      and this is why i gained seventy lbs on the american heart association diet!
                                      i was eating plenty of bread and pasta with no oil or fat as recomended and i kept getting bigger and bigger. my stomach was so bloated (and i felt terrible) that i looked ready to deliver twins.
                                      eliminating wheat from my diet was such a relief!
                                      Yes, for me also and a number of other people I've suggested try to eliminate wheat. Doing nothing else, they immediately felt better...less bloated and less "fuzzy"..more clear headed..and lost a lot of weight. The book "Wheat Belly" is quite eye opening and it is backed up by real studies...yes it is slanted and no it's not impartial...but it's worth checking out. I can't imagine why anyone should eat six serving a day of grain...it's very fattening. Our food pyramid is so messed up.

                                      Bluey, I am sure there were other dwarf varieties but I know the variety in question that he's referencing was widely grown first in the mid 1980's. This article was recently on his blog..it sums things up but does not have footnotes on it

                                      http://www.wheatbellyblog.com/2012/0...d-muffin-tops/

                                      I mainly referenced the wheat to show that old fashioned hybridization (and some new types like irradiating seeds) can have unexpected effects and can create some unusual changes in a plant.

                                      Comment


                                      • #20
                                        Note that Cynodon species is implicated in this kind of poisoning and that regrowth after drought is a key trigger. While tragic for the cattle, this is not all that surprising.......

                                        http://www.dpi.nsw.gov.au/__data/ass...-livestock.pdf
                                        Turn off the computer and go ride!

                                        Comment

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