• Welcome to the Chronicle Forums.
    Please complete your profile. The forums and the rest of www.chronofhorse.com has single sign-in, so your log in information for one will automatically work for the other. Disclaimer: The opinions expressed here are the views of the individual and do not necessarily reflect the views and opinions of The Chronicle of the Horse.

Announcement

Collapse

Forum rules and no-advertising policy

As a participant on this forum, it is your responsibility to know and follow our rules. Please read this message in its entirety.

Board Rules

1. You’re responsible for what you say.
As outlined in Section 230 of the Communications Decency Act, The Chronicle of the Horse and its affiliates, as well Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd., the developers of vBulletin, are not legally responsible for statements made in the forums.

This is a public forum viewed by a wide spectrum of people, so please be mindful of what you say and who might be reading it—details of personal disputes are likely better handled privately. While posters are legally responsible for their statements, the moderators may in their discretion remove or edit posts that violate these rules. Users have the ability to modify or delete their own messages after posting, but administrators generally will not delete posts, threads or accounts upon request.

Outright inflammatory, vulgar, harassing, malicious or otherwise inappropriate statements and criminal charges unsubstantiated by a reputable news source or legal documentation will not be tolerated and will be dealt with at the discretion of the moderators.

2. Conversations in horse-related forums should be horse-related.
The forums are a wonderful source of information and support for members of the horse community. While it’s understandably tempting to share information or search for input on other topics upon which members might have a similar level of knowledge, members must maintain the focus on horses.

3. Keep conversations productive, on topic and civil.
Discussion and disagreement are inevitable and encouraged; personal insults, diatribes and sniping comments are unproductive and unacceptable. Whether a subject is light-hearted or serious, keep posts focused on the current topic and of general interest to other participants of that thread. Utilize the private message feature or personal email where appropriate to address side topics or personal issues not related to the topic at large.

4. No advertising in the discussion forums.
Posts in the discussion forums directly or indirectly advertising horses, jobs, items or services for sale or wanted will be removed at the discretion of the moderators. Use of the private messaging feature or email addresses obtained through users’ profiles for unsolicited advertising is not permitted.

Company representatives may participate in discussions and answer questions about their products or services, or suggest their products on recent threads if they fulfill the criteria of a query. False "testimonials" provided by company affiliates posing as general consumers are not appropriate, and self-promotion of sales, ad campaigns, etc. through the discussion forums is not allowed.

Paid advertising is available on our classifieds site and through the purchase of banner ads. The tightly monitored Giveaways forum permits free listings of genuinely free horses and items available or wanted (on a limited basis). Items offered for trade are not allowed.

Advertising Policy Specifics
When in doubt of whether something you want to post constitutes advertising, please contact a moderator privately in advance for further clarification. Refer to the following points for general guidelines:

Horses – Only general discussion about the buying, leasing, selling and pricing of horses is permitted. If the post contains, or links to, the type of specific information typically found in a sales or wanted ad, and it’s related to a horse for sale, regardless of who’s selling it, it doesn’t belong in the discussion forums.

Stallions – Board members may ask for suggestions on breeding stallion recommendations. Stallion owners may reply to such queries by suggesting their own stallions, only if their horse fits the specific criteria of the original poster. Excessive promotion of a stallion by its owner or related parties is not permitted and will be addressed at the discretion of the moderators.

Services – Members may use the forums to ask for general recommendations of trainers, barns, shippers, farriers, etc., and other members may answer those requests by suggesting themselves or their company, if their services fulfill the specific criteria of the original post. Members may not solicit other members for business if it is not in response to a direct, genuine query.

Products – While members may ask for general opinions and suggestions on equipment, trailers, trucks, etc., they may not list the specific attributes for which they are in the market, as such posts serve as wanted ads.

Event Announcements – Members may post one notification of an upcoming event that may be of interest to fellow members, if the original poster does not benefit financially from the event. Such threads may not be “bumped” excessively. Premium members may post their own notices in the Event Announcements forum.

Charities/Rescues – Announcements for charitable or fundraising events can only be made for 501(c)(3) tax-exempt organizations. Special exceptions may be made, at the moderators’ discretion and direction, for board-related events or fundraising activities in extraordinary circumstances.

Occasional posts regarding horses available for adoption through IRS-registered horse rescue or placement programs are permitted in the appropriate forums, but these threads may be limited at the discretion of the moderators. Individuals may not advertise or make announcements for horses in need of rescue, placement or adoption unless the horse is available through a recognized rescue or placement agency or government-run entity or the thread fits the criteria for and is located in the Giveaways forum.

5. Do not post copyrighted photographs unless you have purchased that photo and have permission to do so.

6. Respect other members.
As members are often passionate about their beliefs and intentions can easily be misinterpreted in this type of environment, try to explore or resolve the inevitable disagreements that arise in the course of threads calmly and rationally.

If you see a post that you feel violates the rules of the board, please click the “alert” button (exclamation point inside of a triangle) in the bottom left corner of the post, which will alert ONLY the moderators to the post in question. They will then take whatever action, or no action, as deemed appropriate for the situation at their discretion. Do not air grievances regarding other posters or the moderators in the discussion forums.

Please be advised that adding another user to your “Ignore” list via your User Control Panel can be a useful tactic, which blocks posts and private messages by members whose commentary you’d rather avoid reading.

7. We have the right to reproduce statements made in the forums.
The Chronicle of the Horse may copy, quote, link to or otherwise reproduce posts, or portions of posts, in print or online for advertising or editorial purposes, if attributed to their original authors, and by posting in this forum, you hereby grant to The Chronicle of the Horse a perpetual, non-exclusive license under copyright and other rights, to do so.

8. We reserve the right to enforce and amend the rules.
The moderators may delete, edit, move or close any post or thread at any time, or refrain from doing any of the foregoing, in their discretion, and may suspend or revoke a user’s membership privileges at any time to maintain adherence to the rules and the general spirit of the forum. These rules may be amended at any time to address the current needs of the board.

Please see our full Terms of Service and Privacy Policy for more information.

Thanks for being a part of the COTH forums!

(Revised 1/26/16)
See more
See less

base for an outdoor...

Collapse
X
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • base for an outdoor...

    We are going to be doing an outdoor this year. The area is unfortunately in a low lying spot, so I was thinking to not disturb the topsoil and just build up the base on top of the existing ground. What are your thoughts? Excavate first or just develop the base on top of what's there now?

    And favorite recipe for a good base? (We're in Pittsburgh so good drainage is key)

    __________________
    Cornerstone Equestrian
    Home of Amazing (Balou du Rouet/Voltaire) 2005 KWPN Stallion
    RPSI, KWPN reg B, and IHF nominated
    www.cornerstonefarmpa.com

  • #2
    SO much depends on what the soil is already like and whether it already drains well, low-lying or not.

    Unless you're just going to ride on the footing that's already there, it's usually a really bad idea to just build right on top of the existing stuff. It may look flat/level, but it's not, and you'll end up with an uneven top footing, which means you'll get puddles, which means the area will compact some more, which means bigger puddles, etc.

    So at the very least, you need to grade and compact the soil already there. But what's there may not take compaction very well.

    Find other barns in your immediate area with rings you like and talk to them about what they did
    ______________________________
    The CoTH CYA - please consult w/your veterinarian under any and all circumstances. - ET

    Comment


    • #3
      Remove vegetation first, and if your soil is stable, build your base on top of it. An undisturbed earth is many times more stable than man-made subbase.

      Comment


      • #4
        That entirely depends on what the soil IS

        Undisturbed sand is not more stable than compacted rolled vibrated clay

        And because the area is already in a low-lying spot, stability won't mean anything if it doesn't drain
        ______________________________
        The CoTH CYA - please consult w/your veterinarian under any and all circumstances. - ET

        Comment

        • Original Poster

          #5
          It doesn't drain at all right now! It's awful...all the water on our property runs down to this spot, so we will be redirecting the flow with french drains around the perimeter of the ring. Once we build up above the level it's on now, we should be ok. Thanks for the advice so far, taking it all in
          Cornerstone Equestrian
          Home of Amazing (Balou du Rouet/Voltaire) 2005 KWPN Stallion
          RPSI, KWPN reg B, and IHF nominated
          www.cornerstonefarmpa.com

          Comment


          • #6
            yes, regardless of whether the area currently drains or not, you will absolutely need that uphill redirection of water

            Since it doesn't drain now, which is probably independent of being in a lower spot, I would absolutely scrap off the topsoil (which is not all that stable), as far down as you need to reach more stable ground, then build up from there.

            if your topsoil and what's under it are all the same (meaning there really isn't any "topsoil) then it should still be "scraped" to whatever degree is necessary to properly grade it, which means some degree of slope to the downhill side. You don't want anything to slope to the uphill side at all

            My ring is on the side of a "hill". It's the lowest spot, but it borders my fenceline and the other side of that continues downhill as well. So, my grade/slope of the ring goes entirely from the high side to the low side, with each of those being the long sides, with water draining across the short length.

            I would NOT have an entire slope/grade going from one short side to the other - far too long for the water to travel.

            You want your sub-based to be hard and level and impermeable on that graded slope. You want that to catch the water coming from the above layer(s) and to direct it out of the ring.

            Ideally you'd then have a base on top of that - something equally hard, equally graded, but permeable. On top of THAT is what you ride on.

            Your footing should drain to the base. The base keeps your footing from sinking into anything and disappearing, but allows the water to drain through to the sub-base.

            You CAN do your footing right on top of the sub-base, no real base in the middle, but that footing needs to be deeper, the sub-base has to be very, very solid, or you will end up punching through the footing, to the base, creating little pockets which will hold water a little longer, get deeper, and make a nasty cycle
            ______________________________
            The CoTH CYA - please consult w/your veterinarian under any and all circumstances. - ET

            Comment


            • #7
              I agree. You need to remove topsoil, then level and compact the soil underneath, then add 4-6 inches (or more) of crushed stone (3/8 minus) and then level and compact that. For a great base, make sure that your crushed stone contains a nice mix of particle sizes (from 3/8" down), especially including fines. This will help your base material compact better. Do not use any type of crushed stone that includes actual rock sized pieces (at least for a traditional arena design).

              If you need to raise up the area where the arena will be you still need to remove any topsoil and then you could have clay brought in by the truckload to raise your arena area up. Or you could go with a deeper base of crushed stone. Probably the clay is cheaper, but truly your main cost in doing that will be the trucking.

              A key to good drainage is that your arena will need to have a small amount of slope to the base. For example, a 1% grade all in one direction, or "crowned" in the middle with a 1% grade heading down each side.

              Then, once the water flows off the sides of your arena it will need somewhere to go, and it sounds like you might need drains for that.

              Comment


              • #8
                Are you building the arena yourselves? We are having ours professionally built. We thought our flat, low lying area would be perfect, but the expert came in and dashed that idea! He said the composition of the soil in low lying areas is loose and very hard to get compacted. Not to mention all of the fancy drainage work it would entail.
                The USDF publication Under foot is worth getting if you haven't already. The base has to be packed hard enough for big trucks to drive on without disturbing it. Otherwise you will run into problems that are costly to fix. The base material would depend on your area, what is locally available. Transporting materials adds to the cost A LOT.

                Comment


                • #9
                  A lot depends on the existing soil. My all weather outdoor was built in a low lying area. I had a soil engineer look at it. We built the 12" (yes, 12"!) tall base pad over existing sandy loam --- engineer said heavy clay would have been an issue as it expands. There is soil stabilization fabric under the base. They removed the vegetation prior.

                  With your base, COMPACTION COMPACTION COMPACTION. That is key. Compaction rates of base should be 95%+. Make sure contractor actually does compaction tests. And compacts the native soil prior to starting to build the pad.

                  Due to our low lying area, I had to spend bucks to install the base pad, which is 12" high. A ton of materials. Were I to do it again, I'd look for a quality source of fill that's cheaper than base rock to build up the pad area first. I actually vomited when the 100th transfer load drove onto my property. Make sure your contractor shoots the existing grade with a laser and knows EXACTLY how much fill/baserock you will need to build the pad. Mine didn't --- and our base costs were over by 25%, which was about $12,000!

                  We have a simple drainage swale all around the arena, and that has worked well for 6 years. The contractor steered us away from french drains as he said they tended to clog up over time. You can always tweak a swale. Use a contractor that has built many arenas that you can go see, ones that are still functioning well after a number of years!

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    I have a swale around my ring too, and it works very, very well in all but the heaviest of rains.
                    ______________________________
                    The CoTH CYA - please consult w/your veterinarian under any and all circumstances. - ET

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Dear Horsechick:

                      The USDF has an excellent booklet called Underfoot which they sell off their website for something like $15. It will answer 99% of your questions regarding arena design and footing, along with materials and drainage elevations. Excellent resource to have before spending upwards of $20,000 on a standard sized arena. I am glad I did.

                      https://www.usdf.org/cgi-bin/commerc...rchResult.html

                      George
                      Last edited by Rabtfarm; Mar. 1, 2012, 11:38 PM. Reason: link

                      Comment

                      Working...
                      X