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Genetically modified alfalfa problems in livestock.

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  • Genetically modified alfalfa problems in livestock.

    I came across this article that clearly defines several problems with using and feeding GMO alfalfa, as well as corn, soybeans and sugar beets. It is a letter sent by one of a group of researchers to US Agriculture Secretary Tom Vilsack. A followup letter requested by the EU and the UK is farther down the page. It discusses crop failure, animal infertility and spontaneous abortions(due to a specific pathogen found in the GMO crops) in livestock fed these feeds, as well as the possibility of humans becoming infected.

    The USDA refused to research it further. I had to look at a UK site to find the info. Here is the link.

    http://www.i-sis.org.uk/ScientistDef...dtoGMCrops.php
    "We don't ride the clock. We ride the horse." Reiner Klimke.
    http://community.webshots.com/user/arnikaelf

  • #2
    Originally posted by arnika View Post
    I came across this article that clearly defines several problems with using and feeding GMO alfalfa, as well as corn, soybeans and sugar beets. It is a letter sent by one of a group of researchers to US Agriculture Secretary Tom Vilsack. A followup letter requested by the EU and the UK is farther down the page. It discusses crop failure, animal infertility and spontaneous abortions(due to a specific pathogen found in the GMO crops) in livestock fed these feeds, as well as the possibility of humans becoming infected.

    The USDA refused to research it further. I had to look at a UK site to find the info. Here is the link.

    http://www.i-sis.org.uk/ScientistDef...dtoGMCrops.php
    As always, there is more to any story.

    Right now, whole nations are fighting trade issues and any such as this is just one more posturing, here over the political hot potato the GMO's fearmongering provides.

    Here is more about the group that supports that one scientist:

    http://www.dcscience.net/?p=129

    What he is proposing is extrapolating and without any scientific proof and if and when he does provide something, my guess is that will be as senseless as what he is promoting.
    At least it is giving him his moment on the limelight, which is a well researched part of psychology that fits people like him.

    We had the same political football made out of the very good science of hormone use in feeding cattle.
    It was used as a trade barrier to protect european beef from the cheaper and better USA beef.

    That battle was fought in the International Tribunal and finally the USA won on the science, that is clear on it.
    Plenty of groups presented other "studies" that were not any good, but were done just to prolong the court case.

    What is sad is that, after ten years of fearmongering with bad science, it is taken long time to reintroduce USA beef to the european markets, because everyone spent all that time hearing how bad it was for you and how bad the USA was trying to poison europeans.
    Just listen to some posters here, they still are repeating those myths, that were clearly debunked already, in international court no less.

    There is so much more out there in international trade and the very important agricultural international trade between powerful nations that meets the eye.

    Remember, there is no action without consequences.
    There will always be something you may find that is a bad consequence of what we do.
    That doesn't mean what we do is inherently bad, just that we do what we do for the many good reasons it is the best for the situation.

    What are GMOs?
    They are a quicker way to achieve what is a natural process anyway, except in nature it is haphazardly done, thru mutations.
    In the lab scientists do it with a certain goal in mind and with much research behind it.
    Detractors of science don't understand how science works and make anything to do with it be anti-natural and guided by devils intended to harm.
    What they don't know or ignore is that science is based in nature and natural processes, science and nature are not at all antagonistic, but symbiotic.

    If there is real scientific proof to what this scientist is saying, he would not have had any problem publishing his findings.
    That he is going thru such as that "Institute" is telling in itself that all he has is bad science and possible ulterior motives guide his claims.
    Last edited by Bluey; Aug. 23, 2011, 07:52 AM.

    Comment


    • #3
      Thank you Bluey. Because I have been one if those OMG, it's genetically modified. It's the devil's work.

      I have my previous soy intolerant horses on a balancer with only one type of soy product in it. It is GM. I'm not having any of the issues I used to. Not saying it's science, not saying I'll only eat GM foods but I was a little surprised. All other attempts at getting back on other balancer brought all their symptoms back.

      They look healthy, they act very healthy so I see no reason to change. If they don't live til 29 then I guess I can blame GM.

      Terri
      COTH, keeping popcorn growers in business for years.

      "I need your grace to remind me to find my own." Snow Patrol-Chasing Cars. This line reminds me why I have horses.

      Comment


      • #4
        I highly recommend reading the book "Seed of Deception." It is unbelievable how most of these GMO products were "approved" by the US govt and the shocking lack of safety testing on them. It's more politics than anything else.

        They are not identical in nutritional content to the non GMO counterpart foods/plants either..that is well established now. Soy, for example, has more antinutrients in it..in other words, more of the "bad" stuff that is not good for us. BT corn got into the human food supply and there were major allergic reactions all over the US.

        Bovine growth hormones now routinely given to dairy cattle to increase milk production are proven to persist in the milk through pasteurization and digestion and are tied to the increase in breast cancer in the US. That one blows my mind. I have a sister in law dying of breast cancer...so that really pissed me off to read. If you are going to drink milk and milk products, go organic. That's the only way to avoid the hormones.

        The problem is that you can't just insert a gene into a strand of DNA without effecting other things...and it's the "other" things that are causing the differences. A good example of a class A screw up was the L Tryptophan mess where GMO bacteria were used to manufacture L Tryptophan. People started to become very ill, and they found out that the bacteria were not just making L Trytophan but also toxins that were in the product. Lots of people lost their health over that human guinea pig experiment and the experiments on living animals and people continue as these products are put on the market with very little or only short term safety studies. It's an outrage.

        Bluey...there is nothing natural about the way these crops are developed. Nothing. Read the book and educate yourself as to how they do this and then you will realize that it's not the same as evolution and natural selection. It is absurd to suggest that it is and only shows your ignorance of what they are doing.

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by Daydream Believer View Post
          I highly recommend reading the book "Seed of Deception." It is unbelievable how most of these GMO products were "approved" by the US govt and the shocking lack of safety testing on them. It's more politics than anything else.

          They are not identical in nutritional content to the non GMO counterpart foods/plants either..that is well established now. Soy, for example, has more antinutrients in it..in other words, more of the "bad" stuff that is not good for us. BT corn got into the human food supply and there were major allergic reactions all over the US.

          Bovine growth hormones now routinely given to dairy cattle to increase milk production are proven to persist in the milk through pasteurization and digestion and are tied to the increase in breast cancer in the US. That one blows my mind. I have a sister in law dying of breast cancer...so that really pissed me off to read. If you are going to drink milk and milk products, go organic. That's the only way to avoid the hormones.

          The problem is that you can't just insert a gene into a strand of DNA without effecting other things...and it's the "other" things that are causing the differences. A good example of a class A screw up was the L Tryptophan mess where GMO bacteria were used to manufacture L Tryptophan. People started to become very ill, and they found out that the bacteria were not just making L Trytophan but also toxins that were in the product. Lots of people lost their health over that human guinea pig experiment and the experiments on living animals and people continue as these products are put on the market with very little or only short term safety studies. It's an outrage.

          Bluey...there is nothing natural about the way these crops are developed. Nothing. Read the book and educate yourself as to how they do this and then you will realize that it's not the same as evolution and natural selection. It is absurd to suggest that it is and only shows your ignorance of what they are doing.
          We have been around and around a few times already.

          Just think what in this world all use that is "not natural"?

          Electricity.

          When humans first started using electricity, there were many detractors, some early scientists were hounded down and harassed as "dong the work of the devil" and yes, electricity is natural, but the general population didn't understand it and plenty of fearmongering went on and guess what, electricity can and has and will kill you too, look, they are right!

          The same with any new technology we have applied to our lives, mechanizing factories, the internal engine and the improvement in transportation that brought, etc.

          By the way, the reference to using hormones in beef was not about the ones used in these past few years in dairy, I don't know about those enough to say.
          i have tried to explain this to you before and there is half a century of excellent research behind this:

          http://www.maverickranch.com/beef-hormones-mdirf5.htm

          ---"MYTH – Cattle that receive "growth promotants" have high levels of hormones.

          FACT – To answer this question, we would like to quote Dr. Gary Smith Ph.D., who is acknowledged as one of the world’s best known meat scientists. Dr. Smith is the former head of the Meat Science Department at Texas A &M and currently holds an endowed chair at Colorado State University. "The amount of natural hormones in the beef we consume is a tiny fraction of what our own bodies produces naturally. A man’s body produces 15,000 times the amount of estrogen hormones, daily, than he can get from 1 lb. of beef while a pregnant woman’s body produces several million times that amount."---


          Very sorry about your sister and her breast cancer.

          Comment


          • #6
            GMO-specific issues aside, I'm greatly concerned about the weeds that have already become resistant to Roundup since Roundup is now heavily, and sometimes solely, used, which was the whole point of the GMO stuff.

            We already have enough trouble killing some really obnoxious weeds.
            ______________________________
            The CoTH CYA - please consult w/your veterinarian under any and all circumstances. - ET

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by arnika View Post
              It discusses crop failure, animal infertility and spontaneous abortions(due to a specific pathogen found in the GMO crops) in livestock fed these feeds, as well as the possibility of humans becoming infected.

              well we'd have all died out a long time ago

              Tamara
              Production Acres,Pro A Welsh Cobs
              I am one of the last 210,000 remaining full time farmers in America.We feed the others.

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by Bluey View Post
                We have been around and around a few times already.



                Very sorry about your sister and her breast cancer.

                Bluey for God's sake, go read my post again. I'm NOT talking about beef. I'm talking about the ones used in milk production. Right now the information I I am discussing is on the GMO hormones (rBGH) used in increasing milk production in dairy cattle.

                http://www.preventcancer.com/press/e...march20_94.htm

                http://www.sustainabletable.org/issues/rbgh/

                Thanks on my sister in law. She has had surgery to remove a brain tumor now and they've found spots on her liver. We are afraid we are going to lose her.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by JB View Post
                  GMO-specific issues aside, I'm greatly concerned about the weeds that have already become resistant to Roundup since Roundup is now heavily, and sometimes solely, used, which was the whole point of the GMO stuff.

                  We already have enough trouble killing some really obnoxious weeds.
                  Herbicide resistance is nothing new - it has been so since the introduction of 2-4D decades ago. Years ago, we had a horrible problem with kochia weed and that little delight started with gardeners being fascinated with annual burning bush aka kochia weed. This horrible stuff was STILL sold through gardening centres as late as 1995 until pressure on the gov't to rule it noxious made it illegal to sell. Same with Purple Loosestrife, another delight that escaped from flower gardens. There are several other noxious weeds that are escaped garden plants and all escaped because they were already herbicide resistant.

                  Oh, and Round-Up came first, not the gmo plants to use it on. It was developed to deal with kochia, purple loosestrife, sow thistle, perennial toadflax, and several others that always were herbicide resistant. Still are, still are invasive and noxious, probably always will be.
                  Founder of the Dyslexic Clique. Dyslexics of the world - UNTIE!!

                  Member: Incredible Invisbles

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by JB View Post
                    GMO-specific issues aside, I'm greatly concerned about the weeds that have already become resistant to Roundup since Roundup is now heavily, and sometimes solely, used, which was the whole point of the GMO stuff.

                    We already have enough trouble killing some really obnoxious weeds.
                    It was inevitable that it would happen. What they say is causing this is that the weeds on the edges of the field get a lower dose of Roundup when they spray the field and many survive the challenge of the spray. Over time, the weeds that survive become more and more resistant and survive to pass on their genes. In a fairly short time we have seen some very resistant and tough weeds develop to the point where roundup is becoming useless.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      I can't believe that people would get hysterical over Round up unless they just don't understand the other burndown options out there.

                      Tamara
                      Production Acres,Pro A Welsh Cobs
                      I am one of the last 210,000 remaining full time farmers in America.We feed the others.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Still waiting for a dispassionate, even-handed, no-agenda synthesis of the topic.
                        Click here before you buy.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by deltawave View Post
                          Still waiting for a dispassionate, even-handed, no-agenda synthesis of the topic.
                          Read that book I mentioned earlier. It is footnoted and based on science not politics.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            My point is, none of this is fixing anything, and it's just causing more problems.

                            Yes, we've always had issues with herbicide-resistant plants and pesticide-resistant bugs. It's not helping things by making a desirable plant {insert favorite herbicide}-resistant so you can use that product on the weeds that are preventing full potential of growing that product, because then that herbicide is ALL that gets used, and then we have even MORE undesirables resistant to it. We're going to run out of chemicals, or they will be so nasty that we start having issues eating the desirable plants.
                            ______________________________
                            The CoTH CYA - please consult w/your veterinarian under any and all circumstances. - ET

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              The problem is that you can't just insert a gene into a strand of DNA without effecting other things...and it's the "other" things that are causing the differences.
                              you realize that people have been creating GMO crops forever? NOTHING we grow is "natural"? you don't think the "corn" or "alfalfa" strains we grow existed before we started tinkering with their genetics? selective breeding does the same thing as direct DNA modification except with far less precision. You talk about "you can't insert a gene in ... without affecting other things" but selective breeding affects FAR more "other things" than putting one gene into the plant. The reason the regulatory bodies don't demand "safety tests" for these products is because if they demanded more tests for a directly precisely DNA modified plant they'd also have to demand safety testing for EVERY. SINGLE. STRAIN. of plant ever grown. Also every single breed of cattle (selective breeding= genetic alterations), etc.
                              The only REAL worry about GMO crops is the possible spread of pesticide resistance to other plants, and the heavy use of pesticides.

                              Comment


                              • #16
                                Originally posted by deltawave View Post
                                Still waiting for a dispassionate, even-handed, no-agenda synthesis of the topic.
                                That is very hard to come by, as the problems here are not of the science behind all of this, but of international trade and what fits each country and what doesn't and what spin they can put to keep out what doesn't fit their goals.
                                See my example on beef implant hormones.

                                All countries have a very important balance of trade, is what keeps the world going 'round, what gives some countries power over others.
                                Agricultural products are one of the most important of all that is traded.

                                ALL involved at that level, whole countries and the "big-ag" multi-national companies involved have an agenda, it is imperative they do and push it.
                                That is the way the game is played at that level and how the rest of us fare depends on them, if we like it or not.

                                The more humans we have and the numbers are becoming staggering, straining resources and the distribution of them, the more important all those questions become.
                                Once we realize the extent of that, it is scary, yes, but not because of hormones or GMOs, but because all that is so important to what we can do or are kept from providing, all on some power plays by this or that group.

                                Comment


                                • #17
                                  Yes DDT was a FANTASTIC idea and that has worked out so well for people all over the world & the environment!

                                  Heck I don't know why we don't just spray it directly on all our newborns! That'd kill 'dem buggers!



                                  "For some people it's not enough to just be a horse's bum, you have to be sea biscuit's bum" -anon.
                                  Nes' Farm Blog ~ DesigNes.ca
                                  Need You Now Equine

                                  Comment


                                  • #18
                                    Originally posted by Nes View Post
                                    Yes DDT was a FANTASTIC idea and that has worked out so well for people all over the world & the environment!

                                    Heck I don't know why we don't just spray it directly on all our newborns! That'd kill 'dem buggers!



                                    Oh, it was for it's time, it practically eradicated malaria from the USA.
                                    There is serious talk of reintroducing DDT carefully where it is still endemic in some parts of the world.

                                    Malaria has crippled and killed many more people ever than any harm DDT did:

                                    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18157325

                                    Comment


                                    • #19
                                      Originally posted by deltawave View Post
                                      Still waiting for a dispassionate, even-handed, no-agenda synthesis of the topic.
                                      GMOs are are good? Golden rice, going to save millions of children from problems with vit-A deficiency, adding what is already available in other plants into rice.

                                      GMOs that are "bad"? Round-up ready, for the exact reasons already mentioned. Monsanto is creating a legion of "loyal" customers because if they keep using that crap there will be NO other options available to farmers then shelling out hundreds of thousands of dollars to the almighty overlords.

                                      Do we need to get into this again? Google "India Farmer Suicides".
                                      "For some people it's not enough to just be a horse's bum, you have to be sea biscuit's bum" -anon.
                                      Nes' Farm Blog ~ DesigNes.ca
                                      Need You Now Equine

                                      Comment


                                      • #20
                                        Originally posted by Bluey View Post
                                        ...Malaria has crippled and killed many more people ever than any harm DDT did.
                                        So you would rather live in a word with out eagles, belugas, human beings...

                                        Malaria is a terrible disease but we have so many new and innovative ways of dealing with the source of the problem, just peaking on the horizon, we will never need to resort back to DDT.
                                        "For some people it's not enough to just be a horse's bum, you have to be sea biscuit's bum" -anon.
                                        Nes' Farm Blog ~ DesigNes.ca
                                        Need You Now Equine

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