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Frost-Free Hydrant Woes - HELP NEEDED!

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  • #1

    Frost-Free Hydrant Woes - HELP NEEDED!

    I haven't had any issues with my frost-free hydrants in the five years they've been installed...until now! We've had much colder weather already this winter, so I'm stumped. I filled the heated trough Monday evening, unhooked the hose, drained it, etc. I went to fill up a bucket last evening - and the handle wouldn't pull the whole way up. I assumed with the snowfall yesterday, it was just frozen (the hydrant is exposed to the elements outside the barn). Instead of forcing the issue, I enlisted hubby. He attempted to thaw it out, which allowed the handle to come the whole way up - but no water! He tried our other frost-free hydrant in the backyard, and it had the same issue. They are on the same line, which is the line that supplies the water to the house. We've had no issues with the house water. Any ideas what we should check? He's a pretty good handyman (dairy farmer), so when he gets stumped, I get scared!
    Cindy
    Tags: None
  • #2
    I think .... get a blowdryer and try warming up the entire pipe above the ground, as well as the head of the handle mechanism .... don't mess with the handle until things are warmed up.

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    • #3
      my hydrant is exposed as well, so i keep heat wrap on it, and cover that with the pipe insulation foam, then tape it all in place with electrical tape............hasn't frozen yet

      Comment

      • #4
        Do a google search on "Frost-free water hydrants fix". Tom King has also responded to several posts this year and last on it, here is one
        http://www.chronofhorse.com/forum/ar.../t-272232.html
        However, logic says it both hydrants don't work, unfortunately, the problem may be in the line . If the pipe feeds your house and also your hydrants it sounds like their might be a break in the line between the point where it diverges from the house feed line to the point where it diverges to feed the hydrants.
        If you walk the ground of the underground pipe, can you see an ice build up in the ground indicating a leak?
        I swear they should build access points in lines so you can dump food dye into the line and to see where if it leaks.

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        • Original Poster
          #5
          Originally posted by tallyho392 View Post
          my hydrant is exposed as well, so i keep heat wrap on it, and cover that with the pipe insulation foam, then tape it all in place with electrical tape............hasn't frozen yet
          Yep - i don't do the heat tape, but it is wrapped from top to bottom in neoprene pipe insulation, held in place with good ole' duct tape.
          Cindy

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          • Original Poster
            #6
            Originally posted by BaroquePony View Post
            I think .... get a blowdryer and try warming up the entire pipe above the ground, as well as the head of the handle mechanism .... don't mess with the handle until things are warmed up.
            Yep - hubby already did that step, using a heat gun.
            Cindy

            Comment

            • Original Poster
              #7
              Originally posted by Chall View Post
              Do a google search on "Frost-free water hydrants fix". Tom King has also responded to several posts this year and last on it, here is one
              http://www.chronofhorse.com/forum/ar.../t-272232.html
              However, logic says it both hydrants don't work, unfortunately, the problem may be in the line . If the pipe feeds your house and also your hydrants it sounds like their might be a break in the line between the point where it diverges from the house feed line to the point where it diverges to feed the hydrants.
              If you walk the ground of the underground pipe, can you see an ice build up in the ground indicating a leak?
              I swear they should build access points in lines so you can dump food dye into the line and to see where if it leaks.
              I'm pretty sure we used some type of black flexible piping when we laid the line to the barn. I'm certain it was all one piece. It's possible it could be an issue at the point where it splits from the well pump to the house/barn. I can't check the ground because it's currently covered in snow
              Cindy

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              • #8
                Does the line feeding the frost hydrants run under a driveway or other place where the snow has been removed? Snow is a very good insulator and can keep things buried underground (like a waterline) from freezing but when you remove the snow (as happens when a driveway is cleared), that section may well freeze if it is not buried deeply enough.
                Robin from Dancing Horse Hill
                Elmwood, Wisconsin

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by tallyho392 View Post
                  my hydrant is exposed as well, so i keep heat wrap on it, and cover that with the pipe insulation foam, then tape it all in place with electrical tape............hasn't frozen yet
                  This is what we usually do...note the "usually". The insulation was removed last summer by a very helpful horse so we removed the heat tape and we hadn't gotten to replacing it. Well, the temps dropped in to the single digits for quite a few days and low and behold no water out of that hydrant. When the heat tape/insulation/tape was replaced we had water back on in a jiffy (or several hours).
                  Kanoe Godby
                  www.dyrkgodby.com
                  See, I was raised by wolves and am really behind the 8-ball on diplomatic issue resolution.

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                  • Original Poster
                    #10
                    Originally posted by Robin@DHH View Post
                    Does the line feeding the frost hydrants run under a driveway or other place where the snow has been removed? Snow is a very good insulator and can keep things buried underground (like a waterline) from freezing but when you remove the snow (as happens when a driveway is cleared), that section may well freeze if it is not buried deeply enough.
                    No, the line is completely buried under the backyard. It's about 25 yards from the well pump to the hydrant at the barn. We've only had a minimal amount of snow covering the ground for the past week (about 2-4"). We have the water line well below the frost line for our area.
                    Cindy

                    Comment

                    • #11
                      If the hydrant isn't adjusted properly when the handle is pushed to off and hydrant sucks water back down pipe into line...making it frost.freeze free...you will get water left in the pipe freezing below where your heat tape or hair dryer will get to.

                      Ask a plumber...wewill have to super heat the pipe tp get the frozen water below ground level thawed, then re-ajust the hyrdrants.

                      We have 30 acres and hydrants and lines running a long way from the pump. Usually 1 tall pipe freezes up but a short one that never did so before is frozen now. both had recent fall work to adjust handle pressure...and those are the frozen ones.

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by judybigredpony View Post
                        If the hydrant isn't adjusted properly when the handle is pushed to off and hydrant sucks water back down pipe into line...making it frost.freeze free...you will get water left in the pipe freezing below where your heat tape or hair dryer will get to.
                        This is what I was thinking. It must be much colder where you are. I don't even have tape/insulation on mine (Guess I'll get that fixed). We're in the 20's here and it's working properly.

                        The fact that two are doing the same thing may indicate a bigger problem.

                        Comment

                        • #13
                          Yup wind chill makes it 15 today with a high of 30 in sun w/o wind.

                          I checked w/ plumber and local big farm owner, they say exact same and need to apply heat from a bigger source like a torpeado heater. Heat ground and lower end of pipe, once thawed need to readjust.

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                          • Original Poster
                            #14
                            Ugh - it's so frustrating because I use that hydrant at least once per day and it never gave any indication that it was getting ready to stop working. We've had much colder/windier days this winter and I can't figure out what made Tuesday any different than any other day! I did not change my routine as far as diconnecting the hose/draining it, handle position, etc. It has never leaked or indicated that a seal was malfunctioning, or anything needed adjusted. When you pull the handle up, it feels just like it always did - no more/less resistance than usual.
                            Cindy

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                            • #15
                              Mine is currently frozen so I am carrying water from the house to the barn. I will definitely be making some corrections this spring to the current set up.

                              Comment

                              • #16
                                Our first ff hyd was installed without enough drainage space underneath it and five years is roughly the amount of time it took for the upright to develop a pinhole leak from sitting in water all the time. By rights, it should never have corroded like that, but it did, and if that were happening to yours it wouldn't have properly drained. Having that happen to two of them seems farfetched but . . .

                                Try the torpedo heater to get the whole upright and the earth warmed, if that works then we used hay bales over our waste pipe which has never given us any trouble draining and should, it's above grade for a foot or so outside the foundation.
                                Courageous Weenie Eventer Wannabe
                                Incredible Invisible

                                Comment

                                • #17
                                  Given that both your frost hydrants are not working, it seems more likely that the problem is in the line feeding water from the pump to the hydrants, but maybe not.

                                  If the hydrant has ice somewhere down the vertical portion, one approach that might be easier than heat is to take the top off the hydrant and pour propolene gycol down the pipe. It will thaw any ice between the top and the foot valve. We get our propolene as a ketosis treatment for dairy cows. Your dairy husband probably knows about KetoAid or similar products. My DH says to remember to shut the water off because when the pipe does thaw, you will have water shooting out the top of the pipe (you can guess how he knows).
                                  Robin from Dancing Horse Hill
                                  Elmwood, Wisconsin

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                                  • Original Poster
                                    #18
                                    Thanks for all of your suggestions. I'll be printing this thread out and handing it over to hubby tonight.
                                    Cindy

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                                    • Original Poster
                                      #19
                                      God Bless husbands!

                                      He called me at work today to let me know he fixed it! He even left work early so that he could come home and work on it while it was still daylight. He said it ended up just being the nut that needed adjusted! WHY do these things happen at the worst times? It couldn't happen when it wasn't 15 degrees outside??? He said he still doesn't know what's wrong with the other one, but since we hardly ever use that one - it can wait until spring. I'm sure thanking the Lord it wasn't anything that required diggin up the ground!

                                      Thanks for all of the suggestions!
                                      Cindy

                                      Comment

                                      • #20
                                        Originally posted by smilton View Post
                                        Mine is currently frozen so I am carrying water from the house to the barn. I will definitely be making some corrections this spring to the current set up.
                                        Same here - my 10 + year old hydrant in the barn decided not to work this week (we are in upstate NY) - used the heat gun and that worked once.

                                        Makes it a bit inconvenient with six horses, geese, ducks and show rabbits and the fact I had knee surgery last Thursday and my surgeon is my next door neighbor and is probably watching to make sure I behave myself... and that the coldest temps of the season are predicted for this week!

                                        The other discouraging fact is that water and air bubbles were bubbling up from the base of the hydrant when it was not working so I know things are not good underground - easier to shut water off to the barn, say a few choice words out of earshot and enlist the help of non animal loving hubby to carry water from the house.

                                        The fact that my horses are now getting Culligan treated water may inspire hubby to call in for help sooner rather than later...

                                        Denise

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