• Welcome to the Chronicle Forums.
    Please complete your profile. The forums and the rest of www.chronofhorse.com has single sign-in, so your log in information for one will automatically work for the other. Disclaimer: The opinions expressed here are the views of the individual and do not necessarily reflect the views and opinions of The Chronicle of the Horse.

Announcement

Collapse

Forum rules and no-advertising policy

As a participant on this forum, it is your responsibility to know and follow our rules. Please read this message in its entirety.

Board Rules

1. You’re responsible for what you say.
As outlined in Section 230 of the Communications Decency Act, The Chronicle of the Horse and its affiliates, as well Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd., the developers of vBulletin, are not legally responsible for statements made in the forums.

This is a public forum viewed by a wide spectrum of people, so please be mindful of what you say and who might be reading it—details of personal disputes are likely better handled privately. While posters are legally responsible for their statements, the moderators may in their discretion remove or edit posts that violate these rules. Users have the ability to modify or delete their own messages after posting, but administrators generally will not delete posts, threads or accounts upon request.

Outright inflammatory, vulgar, harassing, malicious or otherwise inappropriate statements and criminal charges unsubstantiated by a reputable news source or legal documentation will not be tolerated and will be dealt with at the discretion of the moderators.

2. Conversations in horse-related forums should be horse-related.
The forums are a wonderful source of information and support for members of the horse community. While it’s understandably tempting to share information or search for input on other topics upon which members might have a similar level of knowledge, members must maintain the focus on horses.

3. Keep conversations productive, on topic and civil.
Discussion and disagreement are inevitable and encouraged; personal insults, diatribes and sniping comments are unproductive and unacceptable. Whether a subject is light-hearted or serious, keep posts focused on the current topic and of general interest to other participants of that thread. Utilize the private message feature or personal email where appropriate to address side topics or personal issues not related to the topic at large.

4. No advertising in the discussion forums.
Posts in the discussion forums directly or indirectly advertising horses, jobs, items or services for sale or wanted will be removed at the discretion of the moderators. Use of the private messaging feature or email addresses obtained through users’ profiles for unsolicited advertising is not permitted.

Company representatives may participate in discussions and answer questions about their products or services, or suggest their products on recent threads if they fulfill the criteria of a query. False "testimonials" provided by company affiliates posing as general consumers are not appropriate, and self-promotion of sales, ad campaigns, etc. through the discussion forums is not allowed.

Paid advertising is available on our classifieds site and through the purchase of banner ads. The tightly monitored Giveaways forum permits free listings of genuinely free horses and items available or wanted (on a limited basis). Items offered for trade are not allowed.

Advertising Policy Specifics
When in doubt of whether something you want to post constitutes advertising, please contact a moderator privately in advance for further clarification. Refer to the following points for general guidelines:

Horses – Only general discussion about the buying, leasing, selling and pricing of horses is permitted. If the post contains, or links to, the type of specific information typically found in a sales or wanted ad, and it’s related to a horse for sale, regardless of who’s selling it, it doesn’t belong in the discussion forums.

Stallions – Board members may ask for suggestions on breeding stallion recommendations. Stallion owners may reply to such queries by suggesting their own stallions, only if their horse fits the specific criteria of the original poster. Excessive promotion of a stallion by its owner or related parties is not permitted and will be addressed at the discretion of the moderators.

Services – Members may use the forums to ask for general recommendations of trainers, barns, shippers, farriers, etc., and other members may answer those requests by suggesting themselves or their company, if their services fulfill the specific criteria of the original post. Members may not solicit other members for business if it is not in response to a direct, genuine query.

Products – While members may ask for general opinions and suggestions on equipment, trailers, trucks, etc., they may not list the specific attributes for which they are in the market, as such posts serve as wanted ads.

Event Announcements – Members may post one notification of an upcoming event that may be of interest to fellow members, if the original poster does not benefit financially from the event. Such threads may not be “bumped” excessively. Premium members may post their own notices in the Event Announcements forum.

Charities/Rescues – Announcements for charitable or fundraising events can only be made for 501(c)(3) tax-exempt organizations. Special exceptions may be made, at the moderators’ discretion and direction, for board-related events or fundraising activities in extraordinary circumstances.

Occasional posts regarding horses available for adoption through IRS-registered horse rescue or placement programs are permitted in the appropriate forums, but these threads may be limited at the discretion of the moderators. Individuals may not advertise or make announcements for horses in need of rescue, placement or adoption unless the horse is available through a recognized rescue or placement agency or government-run entity or the thread fits the criteria for and is located in the Giveaways forum.

5. Do not post copyrighted photographs unless you have purchased that photo and have permission to do so.

6. Respect other members.
As members are often passionate about their beliefs and intentions can easily be misinterpreted in this type of environment, try to explore or resolve the inevitable disagreements that arise in the course of threads calmly and rationally.

If you see a post that you feel violates the rules of the board, please click the “alert” button (exclamation point inside of a triangle) in the bottom left corner of the post, which will alert ONLY the moderators to the post in question. They will then take whatever action, or no action, as deemed appropriate for the situation at their discretion. Do not air grievances regarding other posters or the moderators in the discussion forums.

Please be advised that adding another user to your “Ignore” list via your User Control Panel can be a useful tactic, which blocks posts and private messages by members whose commentary you’d rather avoid reading.

7. We have the right to reproduce statements made in the forums.
The Chronicle of the Horse may copy, quote, link to or otherwise reproduce posts, or portions of posts, in print or online for advertising or editorial purposes, if attributed to their original authors, and by posting in this forum, you hereby grant to The Chronicle of the Horse a perpetual, non-exclusive license under copyright and other rights, to do so.

8. We reserve the right to enforce and amend the rules.
The moderators may delete, edit, move or close any post or thread at any time, or refrain from doing any of the foregoing, in their discretion, and may suspend or revoke a user’s membership privileges at any time to maintain adherence to the rules and the general spirit of the forum. These rules may be amended at any time to address the current needs of the board.

Please see our full Terms of Service and Privacy Policy for more information.

Thanks for being a part of the COTH forums!

(Revised 1/26/16)
See more
See less

Spinoff on euths/letting the horses "say good bye"/what about dogs?

Collapse
X
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Spinoff on euths/letting the horses "say good bye"/what about dogs?

    In so many of the threads about COTH members putting their equine partners down, it is mentioned that many people feel it's helpful for the other equines to have time to "say goodbye". To see the horse that has been euthed, give them some time with the body, etc. Many people have shared their observations here that it definitely helped and that they felt their remaining horses "got it" and were able to walk away from the body and get on with their normal routine.

    This got me thinking - what about your dogs? I'm sure many of you out there have more than one dog. I have four. I was wondering if anyone had done this with their dogs - letting the surviving ones have time with the body of the one that has been euthanized. Did it seem to make sense to them? Did you think they understood, like the horses seem to, and that that it helped?

    I hope to not have to really think about the nitty gritty of what I will do for some time yet....but reality is that you just never know. If I've learned anything from reading the COTH BB, it is to have a plan in place before you ever actually need it.

  • #2
    I think the same is true for dogs and other animals. If they see the body, they can understand and accept that their friend has died. I think this is often preferable than just wondering where their friend went. Of course, this isn't always possible, but I have found that dogs and cats also accept the death of their pals better if they can see the body.

    Animals accept death so much better than we do. When they can see the body, they have a closure of sorts. I have never found showing them the body to be detrimental, only helpful. Of course, it isn't always possible, but when it is, I have found it to be really helpful for the surviving pets.


    Comment


    • #3
      Yes, I always let the remaining dogs see and sniff their departed friend. I do think they understand, and I believe that it helps them to know that their friend didn't just disappear.

      Comment


      • #4
        I screwed up on both horse and dog. If I had to do it over, I would have let them see and sniff their friend.

        My horse is still grieving for his buddy two months later. He's much better in turnout, but completely trashes his stall every night (he used to be a mucker's dream, urine in one spot, a pile of manure in another.

        My dogs had a rough patch sorting out their missing buddy, probably because she was the alpha. Unfortunately, they are still trying to figure it out.

        Comment


        • #5
          I recently had to let my beloved dog go. Afterwards we brought my other dog and the cat in to say goodbye. The best friend dog sniffed the body and seemed to accept it. The kitty who adored the old dog was very confused and curled up next to the body and purred and groomed her. It was very painful to watch but important I feel to let them be able to understand that she was really gone and not just missing.
          Fullcirclefarmsc.com

          Comment


          • #6
            My vet recently (Dec 3) came to our house to put our beloved Lab "Parker" to sleep. We've had the young Lab "Oliver" for year, and I let him tied within 3 feet of where the vet euthanized Parker. So, he was there the entire time. When Parker was gone, I unhooked Oliver so that he could say goodbye before we buried Parker. Oliver went over, took one little sniff and then "hey, what's that over there" and off he went. I told him that was his only chance to say goodbye, but he didn't much care. At least I felt better by giving him a chance to say goodbye, but he honestly hasn't even given Parker a second thought.
            Cindy

            Comment


            • #7
              When I had to have my older gelding put down we walked him to a far corner of the big pasture. My younger gelding was kept up in the front pasture while we did it. He ran the fence and screamed the whole time and for over an hour after until I haltered him and walked him to see his buddy. He sniffed the body all over, then breathed into his nostrils and moved off to graze. He never called for him again so I know he got it. When we bring a dog or cat home for the last time we do allow our other dogs and cats to see their buddy for the last time. I'm pretty sure it helps them to accept the loss.
              "My biggest fear is that when I die my husband is going to try to sell all my horses and tack for what I told him they cost."

              Comment


              • #8
                All four of our giant-breed dogs were within a couple of years of the same age, so we knew we would lose them all fairly close together. The first one was taken to the vet for euthanasia, and we didn't bring him home before taking him to the crematorium. The remaining three looked for him for weeks.

                The second one to go was also euthanized at the vet, but we had learned our lesson. We brought him home before taking him to the crematorium. One of the remaining two sniffed him and accepted it; the other, who was his best canine friend and was within days of the same age, sniffed him, then poked him, then gave me this utterly tragic look, started shaking and then ran away. He was subdued for weeks; I thought we might lose him. Eventually, by spoiling him horribly, we managed to get him to take an interest in life again.

                When he was diagnosed with osteo, we brought the vet out to our home and had the most perfect passing that could be imagined. He died while laying in my lap and eating walnuts, his fave. He was so happy, and the last dog was there to watch. She accepted it with no problem.

                Liz

                Comment


                • #9
                  When my dog died, we dug his grave and put him in, surrounded by his dog bed, collar, chew bobs and milk bones to get him to the happy hunting ground etc.

                  I gathered my other 3 dogs around the grave to say goodbye. Two sniffed and my schnauzer jumped in the grave and grabbed a chewy and took off.

                  Gotta love terriers.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    We had to let a 15 year old JRT go one Sunday morning this past September. I brought him back home to bury him and let our 13 year old JRT see that his room mate was gone. Micro was puzzled but seemed accepting. We buried Slash and all went inside. When I went back outside later in the day Micro ran to where Slash was buried and started pawing the ground. He tried digging Slash out for two more days before moving on or forgetting about it. After the first attempt to get to his room mate we did pile heavy limestone rocks on the grave.

                    It was sad.
                    Last edited by SLW; Dec. 25, 2010, 04:32 PM. Reason: a

                    Comment

                    • Original Poster

                      #11
                      Originally posted by howardh View Post
                      I gathered my other 3 dogs around the grave to say goodbye. Two sniffed and my schnauzer jumped in the grave and grabbed a chewy and took off.
                      The new definition of "opportunistic"!

                      Thanks to all who have responded It sounds like planning to do this will help with closure for all involved.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        I try not to euthanize any animal in the presence of any other animal of the same species. I also try to remove a horse if it died or was euthanzied ASAP.

                        Not to anthropomorphize, but the pheromones released by dying animals is upsetting to other animals, not necessarily if it was their "friend" or not. Not saying that animals do not mourn the loss of a companion.

                        However- last winter, my old AA horse was in a run out shed. He just laid down and went to sleep and died. In the shed with him, were my then 2 year old and pony. It was quite poignant. I removed them, called the hauler to remove him, and when they were turned back out, down they went to where he was last.

                        When I put down my old Jack 2 years ago, the GSDs would occassionally look for him on the chair for about a day. Then it was business as usual.
                        Come to the dark side, we have cookies

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Yes, I do this with both horses and dogs. Recently we lost our 14 year old male dog very suddenly to bloat. He and our other male dog were friends but always competitive to some extent. When I showed the surviving male dog Snoopy's body, he sniffed a ton and then started to lift his leg to mark him! He seemed quite pleased his rival was dead, it was really upsetting for me. Our other dog, a female, was depresssed. It definitely helped for them to see him and know what happened, especially since he got sick and went to vet for euth all in the course of an hour.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            I bury my animals, so even if it was done at the vet's, there is always a body to see. My dogs have always been brought out to the grave to see. I feel like this is particularly important in cases where the death was sudden, such as being hit by a car.

                            Just last winter, my old Beagle died. He got very sick and mopey one day...brought him to the vet the next day and ran all sorts of tests/xrays(found absolutely nothing wrong) and he died the next morning. Just laid down and died. My two female dogs had been very clingy with him while he was sick...snuggling, always keeping him company, etc. They both came up to his body on the floor (we were all there the moment he died) and sniffed, then went back to bed. The youngest female seemed okay, my older female who had been Jasper's longest companion moped for a few days, but she is a particularly sensitive dog.

                            I don't usually show departed friends to my cats, and usually it works out okay. I really regret not doing it last summer when my heart cat died, however. He had another white male cat that he had hung out with/slept with/hunted with for 13 years. He was sick at home (kidney failure) but we took him to the vet to be put to sleep, brought him home in the box, and put him in the ground. Poor Fred (his still-living companion) still calls for Otto....less than he used to, but it's heartbreaking.


                            Bottom line: Yes, if it's possible, I recommend letting them sniff the body. Disturbing pheromones or not, it's often much MORE disturbing for a buddy to just "disappear."

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              As a tech I always recommend that owners allow their pets to say good bye, regardless of what species they have. If an animal has bonded to another animal and suddenly they're companion/roomate/nemesis is suddenly gone, it completely disrupts their well-being. Even if they only tolerated each other because they shared an owner, they will still be stricken that their arch enemy is suddenly gone.
                              As morbid as it sounds when I write it, I always bring my departed pets home before we cremate them and let the others sniff the deceased. I allow them a few hours (yes hours) to notice the change because sometimes, when you allow them to sniff a warm body, it does not register but if it is possible to allow the body to go through its immediate changes, they understand.
                              We had to put a kitten down that we only had a few months. My older cat adored him and they were the Midnight Marauders in our house, declaring total destruction on anything and everything they could after we went to sleep. They even spent a few nights in the slammer when their binges went beyond comprehensible.
                              I lived at the clinic I worked for and so when we decided it was time, I took the kitten downstairs and my older cat knew something was not right. He knew his buddy had been sick and had been going downstairs for treatments but somehow he knew he wasn't going to come back.
                              In the clinic you could hear my older cat screaming and literally freaking out- it was eerie. I couldn't stand it so we went back upstairs and euthanized the kitten with him present. Oddly he was calm and just sat on my shoulder as I held his buddy.
                              I laid his friend on the floor and let everyone sniff him good-bye but my older cat sat near him like he was watching over him. Then about an hour went by while I was calming my girls, I noticed that my older cat was licking the kitten's head and then he just walked off and sat in the window watching the birds the rest of the day.
                              It was so weird how he knew but he did. I can't imagine what he would have done if he hadn't gotten to say good-bye. Now it's mandatory that everyone who crosses the bridge comes back home first.

                              Comment


                              • #16
                                We had a husky with lung "issues" where she went through several episodes of spontaneous pneumothorax and spent several days in the vet hospital each time. The last time it happened we had two other dogs, our Berner and a malamute/mix pup (2yr old maybe?), who she had basically raised.

                                We took her off to the hospital and the boys were absolutely beside themselves. They were nervous and anxious and whimpered at the gate for the entire 3 days she was there. And these were not "sensitive" or high strung dogs at all.

                                We brought her home for a day and the boys settled down. Unfortunately her lungs didn't hold and she suffered her final episode that prompted us to put her down. We took her back to the emergency vet and brought the boys with us. We had all 3 in the room with my husband and I and the boys were basically fawning all over our poor injured girl. The vet gave her the shot and she passed away quickly. The dogs sniffed her over once and then completely ignored her body. It was like they went, "oh, she's dead and gone. Ooh, I smell treats...."

                                We brought them home and they were completely normal acting. They never whimpered or looked for her or acted like anything was odd. I'm so grateful for my horse vet who had suggested that we do that in the first place.

                                My Bernese Mountain Dog, on the other hand, died very suddenly and unexpectedly a couple of years later at the vet clinic because of splenic hermangiosarcoma (we think he ruptured his spleen as he jumped out of the car at the clinic for a quick checkup). We didn't have time or wherewithal to get our malamute to the clinic after the fact (I was pregnant, had a broken leg, a toddler, and had just lost a horse on the 4th/5th of July a week earlier, and was absolutely devastated about losing "my" dog). I still feel bad about it because the malamute grieved the loss of his friend for the next 3 or 4 months. If I could go back and do it all again I would take him to the clinic afterwards without even thinking twice about it.
                                __________________________________
                                Flying F Sport Horses
                                Horses in the NW

                                Comment


                                • #17
                                  Death Comes to River Bend Farm

                                  Today I put down my 28 year old Hanoverian dressage master. He was a LOVELY old gentleman. He had spent the last few years working as a therapy horse but was quite blind and recently developed an eye ulcer the size of Rhode Island. Today we did The Deed in the dooryard of the barn, within view of my 2 TBs. Once the Old Gent had died, I took my 7 year old TB over to see him. The youngster sniffed every INCH of the old guy. Smelled his nose and mouth the longest. Soon he began to lick the legs. The whole going-over took about 10 minutes. It was so interesting. I've always believed they need a moment to say 'Bye' but this was such a thorough going over. My vet (who is also my best friend in the world, who drove 2 hours each way to do this for us) said her job is so cool because every single day she gets an education. She had not thought the saying 'bye' thing was as important as my guy proved today.
                                  Proud and achy member of the Eventing Grannies clique.

                                  Comment


                                  • #18
                                    I always let the other animals have time with their deceast pals. The mares body is still in the pasture now. The other horses are all standing around her with their heads down. The guys are out digging her grave now.
                                    M

                                    Comment


                                    • #19
                                      We recently (October) had a home euthanasia for our elderly Labrador. We kept the Golden Retriever, who had lived with the Lab for 8 years, in another room so that he would not be in the way.

                                      After the Lab passed my vet solemly suggested we bring the Golden in so that he can process the death of his friend. We bring in the Golden who goes into classic Golden raptures of joy at seeing the vet. Tail wagging, body wagging, happy panting "Oh look, company!" I try to get him to stop his Golden-ness long enough to acknowledge that his best friend in the world just died but he gave her a cursory sniff and then went back to looking for attention from the vet.

                                      Nothing like a Golden Retriever to lighten the mood! Perhaps he did not have enough time to absorb what had happened and would have behaved with a bit more solemn dignity if he has spent more time with the body but my 8 yr old son was pretty upset about the Lab and I could not really have kept the dead dog around in the house.

                                      I was expecting the Golden to have some trouble adjusting to single dog life but he seems to be enjoying the extra attention. He is a glass half full kind of dog.

                                      Comment

                                      Working...
                                      X