• Welcome to the Chronicle Forums.
    Please complete your profile. The forums and the rest of www.chronofhorse.com has single sign-in, so your log in information for one will automatically work for the other. Disclaimer: The opinions expressed here are the views of the individual and do not necessarily reflect the views and opinions of The Chronicle of the Horse.

Announcement

Collapse

Forum rules and no-advertising policy

As a participant on this forum, it is your responsibility to know and follow our rules. Please read this message in its entirety.

Board Rules

1. You’re responsible for what you say.
As outlined in Section 230 of the Communications Decency Act, The Chronicle of the Horse and its affiliates, as well Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd., the developers of vBulletin, are not legally responsible for statements made in the forums.

This is a public forum viewed by a wide spectrum of people, so please be mindful of what you say and who might be reading it—details of personal disputes are likely better handled privately. While posters are legally responsible for their statements, the moderators may in their discretion remove or edit posts that violate these rules. Users have the ability to modify or delete their own messages after posting, but administrators generally will not delete posts, threads or accounts upon request.

Outright inflammatory, vulgar, harassing, malicious or otherwise inappropriate statements and criminal charges unsubstantiated by a reputable news source or legal documentation will not be tolerated and will be dealt with at the discretion of the moderators.

2. Conversations in horse-related forums should be horse-related.
The forums are a wonderful source of information and support for members of the horse community. While it’s understandably tempting to share information or search for input on other topics upon which members might have a similar level of knowledge, members must maintain the focus on horses.

3. Keep conversations productive, on topic and civil.
Discussion and disagreement are inevitable and encouraged; personal insults, diatribes and sniping comments are unproductive and unacceptable. Whether a subject is light-hearted or serious, keep posts focused on the current topic and of general interest to other participants of that thread. Utilize the private message feature or personal email where appropriate to address side topics or personal issues not related to the topic at large.

4. No advertising in the discussion forums.
Posts in the discussion forums directly or indirectly advertising horses, jobs, items or services for sale or wanted will be removed at the discretion of the moderators. Use of the private messaging feature or email addresses obtained through users’ profiles for unsolicited advertising is not permitted.

Company representatives may participate in discussions and answer questions about their products or services, or suggest their products on recent threads if they fulfill the criteria of a query. False "testimonials" provided by company affiliates posing as general consumers are not appropriate, and self-promotion of sales, ad campaigns, etc. through the discussion forums is not allowed.

Paid advertising is available on our classifieds site and through the purchase of banner ads. The tightly monitored Giveaways forum permits free listings of genuinely free horses and items available or wanted (on a limited basis). Items offered for trade are not allowed.

Advertising Policy Specifics
When in doubt of whether something you want to post constitutes advertising, please contact a moderator privately in advance for further clarification. Refer to the following points for general guidelines:

Horses – Only general discussion about the buying, leasing, selling and pricing of horses is permitted. If the post contains, or links to, the type of specific information typically found in a sales or wanted ad, and it’s related to a horse for sale, regardless of who’s selling it, it doesn’t belong in the discussion forums.

Stallions – Board members may ask for suggestions on breeding stallion recommendations. Stallion owners may reply to such queries by suggesting their own stallions, only if their horse fits the specific criteria of the original poster. Excessive promotion of a stallion by its owner or related parties is not permitted and will be addressed at the discretion of the moderators.

Services – Members may use the forums to ask for general recommendations of trainers, barns, shippers, farriers, etc., and other members may answer those requests by suggesting themselves or their company, if their services fulfill the specific criteria of the original post. Members may not solicit other members for business if it is not in response to a direct, genuine query.

Products – While members may ask for general opinions and suggestions on equipment, trailers, trucks, etc., they may not list the specific attributes for which they are in the market, as such posts serve as wanted ads.

Event Announcements – Members may post one notification of an upcoming event that may be of interest to fellow members, if the original poster does not benefit financially from the event. Such threads may not be “bumped” excessively. Premium members may post their own notices in the Event Announcements forum.

Charities/Rescues – Announcements for charitable or fundraising events can only be made for 501(c)(3) tax-exempt organizations. Special exceptions may be made, at the moderators’ discretion and direction, for board-related events or fundraising activities in extraordinary circumstances.

Occasional posts regarding horses available for adoption through IRS-registered horse rescue or placement programs are permitted in the appropriate forums, but these threads may be limited at the discretion of the moderators. Individuals may not advertise or make announcements for horses in need of rescue, placement or adoption unless the horse is available through a recognized rescue or placement agency or government-run entity or the thread fits the criteria for and is located in the Giveaways forum.

5. Do not post copyrighted photographs unless you have purchased that photo and have permission to do so.

6. Respect other members.
As members are often passionate about their beliefs and intentions can easily be misinterpreted in this type of environment, try to explore or resolve the inevitable disagreements that arise in the course of threads calmly and rationally.

If you see a post that you feel violates the rules of the board, please click the “alert” button (exclamation point inside of a triangle) in the bottom left corner of the post, which will alert ONLY the moderators to the post in question. They will then take whatever action, or no action, as deemed appropriate for the situation at their discretion. Do not air grievances regarding other posters or the moderators in the discussion forums.

Please be advised that adding another user to your “Ignore” list via your User Control Panel can be a useful tactic, which blocks posts and private messages by members whose commentary you’d rather avoid reading.

7. We have the right to reproduce statements made in the forums.
The Chronicle of the Horse may copy, quote, link to or otherwise reproduce posts, or portions of posts, in print or online for advertising or editorial purposes, if attributed to their original authors, and by posting in this forum, you hereby grant to The Chronicle of the Horse a perpetual, non-exclusive license under copyright and other rights, to do so.

8. We reserve the right to enforce and amend the rules.
The moderators may delete, edit, move or close any post or thread at any time, or refrain from doing any of the foregoing, in their discretion, and may suspend or revoke a user’s membership privileges at any time to maintain adherence to the rules and the general spirit of the forum. These rules may be amended at any time to address the current needs of the board.

Please see our full Terms of Service and Privacy Policy for more information.

Thanks for being a part of the COTH forums!

(Revised 1/26/16)
See more
See less

Truck Experts - 250 v. 350

Collapse
X
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Truck Experts - 250 v. 350

    Okay all of you truck experts....
    I was talking about trucks with an acquaintance the other day. He said that if I was going to buy a diesel F-250 (or a GMC/Chevy 2500) that I might as well go with the F-350 (or a GMC/Chevy 3500) because it would get better gas mileage and it would haul better.

    So, what do you all think? Is this even true? I have done no research, so I am open to any and all suggestions.

    Thanks
    ALP
    "The Prince" aka Front Row
    Cavalier Manor

  • #2
    Since they tend to have the same drive train in 3/4 and one-tons, I am not sure that you'll see much difference in power/gas mileage.

    However assuming you buy a dually one-ton, the rig would be more stable and feel more secure. But then you have the added joy of buying 50% more tires too. Not sure what your trailer is, so you may not warrant a dually.
    Experience is what you get, when you didn't get what you wanted.

    Comment


    • #3
      250 and 350 are just about the same truck. Same engine, chassis, etc. etc. Difference is in the suspension in the bed -- on the 350 there is a heavier bed suspension that allows you to put more weight in the bed. If you have a big, heavy gooseneck than a 350 is a better option. If you have a mid size trailer you may like the 250 better. Often (not always) the 350s set up for hauling have the dually wheels which are a pain in general driving if you don't need them.

      I had a 350 and switched to a 250 and love it. I have a 3 horse xtra long gooseneck trailer. Packed with horses and equipment, I get 13-15 mpg and truck alone on the highway I get 20-22. It's a diesel.

      Comment


      • #4
        I prefer a 350 for towing goosenecks...lots more stability.

        As far as tire cost...well, there are two more tires. The additional tires has one great benefit...one of your rear tires goes flat you can still keep going up the road until you get home or reach a place where you're not dealing with a flat on the side of the highway. This safety is a great bonus.

        I don't find a big difference chugging up the road with a dually. can be a bit tighter parking sometimes. Remember, you can get a 350 with single tires behind, dually is an option.
        "Sic Gorgiamus Allos Subjectatos Nunc"

        Comment


        • #5
          In some states, e.g., MA, you have to register and insure a dually as a commercial vehicle. It ups the cost considerably.

          Comment


          • #6
            I have actually owned all three models over the last 20 years and kept each one for a good long time, having owned all 3 at the same time for about a year. Now the F250 and the F150 have gone onto to new owners.

            I much much much prefer the F350 Dually to the other two, for my purposes which are:

            hauling a 3 horse gooseneck
            hauling a flat deck BP for taking the tractor or hay around
            slogging through snow or ice or mud conditions
            fuel economy

            The F350 that I got is more economical to run and gets better MPG than either the F250 or the F150 doing the same job. Firstly, the F150 was vastly underpowered, and hauling the goosneck would be impossible, but hauling a lighter weight 2 horse BP, it used to get about 13-15 mpg with a gas engine ( 5 liter) and about 15-18 in town with no trailer. The F250 used to get about 10 mpg pulling the same trailer and also had a larger gas engine ( 5.4 l). It was definitely a big pig on fuel, even in town it never got better than about 12-15 mpg. Also, it drove about the same as the F150 although it was a 4WD and sat taller, so it felt the wind more in crosswind situations and was less stable in snow and ice until you put weight in the bed.

            The F350 has the smaller turbo deisel and it gets about 16 mpg pulling the bigger trailer, plus about 18 mpg in town. it has a fancy little gage that tells me exactly what its consuming too, which I like. While it sits tall, the dually gives it extra stability and it feels the same driving whether hauling or not. The other two trucks tended to get pushed around by the trailer a bit.

            Tires are not a huge concern- I pulled the stock tires off the F350 and replaced them with Michelin truck tires at a cost under $1200, even here in canuckistan, and they handle way better than the stock tires, plus they are rated to last longer. In snow or ice, the bigger truck just feels safer and will crawl straight up the side of a building like spiderman.

            If you can afford it, get the F350 turbo deisel 4WD dually. Except if you have to use it as a daily driver, because the thing is darn near impossible to park in a town.

            If you are pulling on pavement only and don't need 4WD or dually, you might want to consider the F350 dual wheel drive and single axle ( not the dually) because they sit lower and look sportier. My friend has one and its one hot looking sport truck especially hooked up to her LQ GN 3H.
            "The Threat of Internet Ignorance: ... we are witnessing the rise of an age of equestrian disinformation, one where a trusting public can graze on nonsense packaged to look like fact."-LRG-AF

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by CatOnLap View Post
              I have actually owned all three models over the last 20 years and kept each one for a good long time, having owned all 3 at the same time for about a year. Now the F250 and the F150 have gone onto to new owners.

              I much much much prefer the F350 Dually to the other two, for my purposes which are:

              hauling a 3 horse gooseneck
              hauling a flat deck BP for taking the tractor or hay around
              slogging through snow or ice or mud conditions
              fuel economy

              The F350 that I got is more economical to run and gets better MPG than either the F250 or the F150 doing the same job. Firstly, the F150 was vastly underpowered, and hauling the goosneck would be impossible, but hauling a lighter weight 2 horse BP, it used to get about 13-15 mpg with a gas engine ( 5 liter) and about 15-18 in town with no trailer. The F250 used to get about 10 mpg pulling the same trailer and also had a larger gas engine ( 5.4 l). It was definitely a big pig on fuel, even in town it never got better than about 12-15 mpg. Also, it drove about the same as the F150 although it was a 4WD and sat taller, so it felt the wind more in crosswind situations and was less stable in snow and ice until you put weight in the bed.

              The F350 has the smaller turbo deisel and it gets about 16 mpg pulling the bigger trailer, plus about 18 mpg in town. it has a fancy little gage that tells me exactly what its consuming too, which I like. While it sits tall, the dually gives it extra stability and it feels the same driving whether hauling or not. The other two trucks tended to get pushed around by the trailer a bit.

              Tires are not a huge concern- I pulled the stock tires off the F350 and replaced them with Michelin truck tires at a cost under $1200, even here in canuckistan, and they handle way better than the stock tires, plus they are rated to last longer. In snow or ice, the bigger truck just feels safer and will crawl straight up the side of a building like spiderman.

              If you can afford it, get the F350 turbo deisel 4WD dually. Except if you have to use it as a daily driver, because the thing is darn near impossible to park in a town.

              If you are pulling on pavement only and don't need 4WD or dually, you might want to consider the F350 dual wheel drive and single axle ( not the dually) because they sit lower and look sportier. My friend has one and its one hot looking sport truck especially hooked up to her LQ GN 3H.

              Never buy a F250 or F350 without 4 wheel drive unless you are never going to get it off the pavement.

              The diesel engine makes it heavy on the front and even the slightest wet grass will make it spin on any slope regardless of how slight.

              I have something like 800,000 miles experience driving three Ford diesels much of it pulling various sized horse trailers.

              Stick with the standard rear wheels and get the camper package combined with the towing package.

              Campers are top heavy and that package includes a rear sway bar.

              Throw the tires away that come on it and get Michelins.

              If you are purchasing a new truck, get the 20" wheels with the 3.57 rear end. That will give you the best mileage in the Ford line.

              I have never owned a Ford that gave me 18 MPH pulling a trailer.

              In Piedmont NC and VA, 12 MPG pulling a 4 horse has been it for me. 10 MPG in the mountains. 14.5 to 15 in town without a trailer.
              18 on the 4 lane, no trailer at 65 to 70.

              My present truck is a 2008 F350 with 89,000 about to roll up tonight.

              The 2011 may give better mileage.

              As for snow and ice, I have no experience with a dually on either but there was a thread on here a year or two ago on the same subject and several from MN and MA chimed in and said that a dually was much more difficult to drive on ice and snow and that one who lived in that climate should not buy one.

              CSSJR

              Comment


              • #8
                Since you quote my post, I have to think you're directing your answers to me, CSSJR.

                Never buy a F250 or F350 without 4 wheel drive unless you are never going to get it off the pavement.
                Yeah, I believe I said that. But read on, because it might not be as necessary as you think.

                The diesel engine makes it heavy on the front and even the slightest wet grass will make it spin on any slope regardless of how slight.
                Uh, well, that's certainly not my experience, as we do have to park on grass at all our shows, usually on a slight hill, and we have a lot of rain here- so, no I don't find the F350 dually gets stuck or slips at all in these conditions. In fact, my experience is that it hauls better than either of the other two trucks I owned in these conditions. The only time I've needed to use the low range 4WD is on icey hills (my driveway) or in heavy mud, where either of the other two trucks would need to be hauled out by a tractor.

                I have something like 800,000 miles experience driving three Ford diesels much of it pulling various sized horse trailers.
                Yes, you are not the only one who has done a lot of hauling and driving.
                I have never owned a Ford that gave me 18 MPH pulling a trailer
                . Well, to be picky, its MPG, not MPH, and I feel sorry for you if none of your trucks never made 18 MPH- you must drive pretty slow! But what I actually said is my F350 gets 16 MPG hauling the trailer, or 18 mpg in town(without the trailer... and on the highway, empty, it gets about 22.) YMMV, depends on your driving style and the weight of your trailer. There are guys on the Ford Deisel forums that are doing even better. There's a chip available for the F350 deisel that does improve this performance. Then again, my truck is slightly older than yours, so maybe the retooling they did after 2006 did not improve performance.

                As for snow and ice, I have no experience with a dually on either
                As one who has lots of experience hauling in a winter climate (western Canada) in hilly terrain, the larger "footprint" of the dually makes for better handling and better braking than the single axle, especially on ice.

                My friend with the dual wheel drive has a husband who is a deisel mechanic (but not for FORD, haha), and had used her previous 4WD so rarely that they special ordered the non-4WD. She hauls in the exact same conditions, even more than I do, and they have not experienced the problems that you imagine without 4WD.
                "The Threat of Internet Ignorance: ... we are witnessing the rise of an age of equestrian disinformation, one where a trusting public can graze on nonsense packaged to look like fact."-LRG-AF

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by CatOnLap View Post
                  Since you quote my post, I have to think you're directing your answers to me, CSSJR.

                  Yeah, I believe I said that. But read on, because it might not be as necessary as you think.

                  Uh, well, that's certainly not my experience, as we do have to park on grass at all our shows, usually on a slight hill, and we have a lot of rain here- so, no I don't find the F350 dually gets stuck or slips at all in these conditions. In fact, my experience is that it hauls better than either of the other two trucks I owned in these conditions. The only time I've needed to use the low range 4WD is on icey hills (my driveway) or in heavy mud, where either of the other two trucks would need to be hauled out by a tractor.

                  Yes, you are not the only one who has done a lot of hauling and driving.
                  . Well, to be picky, its MPG, not MPH, and I feel sorry for you if none of your trucks never made 18 MPH- you must drive pretty slow! But what I actually said is my F350 gets 16 MPG hauling the trailer, or 18 mpg in town(without the trailer... and on the highway, empty, it gets about 22.) YMMV, depends on your driving style and the weight of your trailer. There are guys on the Ford Deisel forums that are doing even better. There's a chip available for the F350 deisel that does improve this performance. Then again, my truck is slightly older than yours, so maybe the retooling they did after 2006 did not improve performance.

                  As one who has lots of experience hauling in a winter climate (western Canada) in hilly terrain, the larger "footprint" of the dually makes for better handling and better braking than the single axle, especially on ice.

                  My friend with the dual wheel drive has a husband who is a deisel mechanic (but not for FORD, haha), and had used her previous 4WD so rarely that they special ordered the non-4WD. She hauls in the exact same conditions, even more than I do, and they have not experienced the problems that you imagine without 4WD.
                  I believe a post earlier than yours claimed 18 pulling a trailer.

                  As for the 16 pulling a trailer.....

                  I doubt it.

                  As for those on the internet who claim more, yes anyone can write anything they please. You will not get it with a stock off the floor truck.

                  As for tuners, they are for real truck nuts. Suggesting one for a person who knows not whether they need a F250, 350 dually or not is not helpful. You can blow an engine if you don't know what you are doing. Just read the many comments on EGT and the need to monitor them carefully.

                  And another small thing. Using a tuner voids your warranty. If you have a breakdown on the highway and don't have your tuner or if the breakdown is of some nature that does not allow you to revert to factory tune, the dealer will immediately void your warranty...not only for the specific problem that brought your truck to his shop but for any and every thing that happens from that day on.

                  Tuners also change transmission shift points. OK if you really know what your are doing.....not OK for the ordinary truck owner.

                  So tuners are not for the ordinary person pulling a horse trailer.

                  Tonight, I will pull my 4 horse Sundowner 350 miles round trip as I do almost every Sunday night. It will get 12MPG both ways as it always has.

                  As for the rest, I bow to your obviously superior knowledge.

                  CSSJR

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Well, maybe css will claim I am smoking crack or something, but oh well. The following are my experiences in diesel-land.

                    My 250 (7.3L, all stock) gets 16 mpg towing the trailer and around 20 mpg without. I am sorry if this is impossible for some to believe, but I can do the math. I drive it gently. Obviously, it will be lower with more weight, I'm towing about 5-6000 lbs usually.

                    It's also *gasp* 2WD. I do not need 4x4 where I live, even when I drive on grass, etc. I slip a bit every now and again, as I have crappy tires the dealer put on and once those wear out, I'll throw Michelins on there. But I've parked in plenty of pastures and never got stuck. Just park smart and drive well. :-) If in the future, I do get stuck *shrug* farms have tractors, I'm not worried, I'm not trying to cross Death Valley off-road in the thing.

                    The 350 and 250 are generally the same truck, only the 350 has a beefier rear, some extra relays, and 350 badges. You can get a single rear wheel on the 350, they're very very common around here so you don't have to have the "breakaway fenders" of the dually (we have small parking lots!).
                    Life doesn't have perfect footing.

                    Bloggily entertain yourself with our adventures (and disasters):
                    We Are Flying Solo

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      350. Not only can you tow just about everything, but I did not realize till I bought one that all men are envious and all women think it is cool. Worth the cost.

                      (Men are as obsessed about the size of an engine as they are about the caliber of their guns.)

                      Mr. Sutton is right, guys are always saying that their 250s are exactly like my 350 except for the struts, etc., that make it able to hold heavier items. I've carried over a ton of cat litter in the bed w/o a problem.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by CatOnLap View Post
                        Since you quote my post, I have to think you're directing your answers to me, CSSJR.

                        Yeah, I believe I said that. But read on, because it might not be as necessary as you think.

                        Uh, well, that's certainly not my experience, as we do have to park on grass at all our shows, usually on a slight hill, and we have a lot of rain here- so, no I don't find the F350 dually gets stuck or slips at all in these conditions. In fact, my experience is that it hauls better than either of the other two trucks I owned in these conditions. The only time I've needed to use the low range 4WD is on icey hills (my driveway) or in heavy mud, where either of the other two trucks would need to be hauled out by a tractor.

                        Yes, you are not the only one who has done a lot of hauling and driving.
                        . Well, to be picky, its MPG, not MPH, and I feel sorry for you if none of your trucks never made 18 MPH- you must drive pretty slow! But what I actually said is my F350 gets 16 MPG hauling the trailer, or 18 mpg in town(without the trailer... and on the highway, empty, it gets about 22.) YMMV, depends on your driving style and the weight of your trailer. There are guys on the Ford Deisel forums that are doing even better. There's a chip available for the F350 deisel that does improve this performance. Then again, my truck is slightly older than yours, so maybe the retooling they did after 2006 did not improve performance.

                        As one who has lots of experience hauling in a winter climate (western Canada) in hilly terrain, the larger "footprint" of the dually makes for better handling and better braking than the single axle, especially on ice.

                        My friend with the dual wheel drive has a husband who is a deisel mechanic (but not for FORD, haha), and had used her previous 4WD so rarely that they special ordered the non-4WD. She hauls in the exact same conditions, even more than I do, and they have not experienced the problems that you imagine without 4WD.
                        You might want to check this link:

                        http://www.plowsite.com/showthread.php?t=107163&page=2

                        This is a board for professional snow plow operators.

                        Several posts down is one by a truck dealer who very plainly explains the difference between duallys and SRW.

                        If one purchases the camper package, the stability problem is revolved if the truck is equipped with a top of the line tire kept inflated to 80 PSI.

                        Anyone who purchases a diesel without 4x4 is not knowledgeable.

                        CSSJR

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by wildlifer View Post
                          Well, maybe css will claim I am smoking crack or something, but oh well. The following are my experiences in diesel-land.

                          My 250 (7.3L, all stock) gets 16 mpg towing the trailer and around 20 mpg without. I am sorry if this is impossible for some to believe, but I can do the math. I drive it gently. Obviously, it will be lower with more weight, I'm towing about 5-6000 lbs usually.

                          It's also *gasp* 2WD. I do not need 4x4 where I live, even when I drive on grass, etc. I slip a bit every now and again, as I have crappy tires the dealer put on and once those wear out, I'll throw Michelins on there. But I've parked in plenty of pastures and never got stuck. Just park smart and drive well. :-) If in the future, I do get stuck *shrug* farms have tractors, I'm not worried, I'm not trying to cross Death Valley off-road in the thing.

                          The 350 and 250 are generally the same truck, only the 350 has a beefier rear, some extra relays, and 350 badges. You can get a single rear wheel on the 350, they're very very common around here so you don't have to have the "breakaway fenders" of the dually (we have small parking lots!).
                          I drove a 1999 7.3, my second 7.3, 357,000 miles and never saw 16 MPG pulling a trailer. I got 17 to 18 on the interstates at 65 - 70 MPH.

                          Straight drive, 6 gears, 3.57 rear end.

                          AS for 4 x 4, it is a very bad mistake to purchase a diesel without 4x4.

                          I don't really care to spend a lot of time looking for some farmer to bring his tractor to move me to a better place.

                          The first thing a buyer of a used truck looks for is whether it is a 4x4. You will get your money back at that point.

                          CSSJR

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            I've had 2 and 4 wheel drives. Depending on where you live, 4x4 is not required, but really is nice to have. I agree that the re-sale is better. That said, if you don't need it, you might be able to get a great deal on the 2-wheel variety.

                            And I routinely get better mileage than some of the folks here claim is possible -- guess I'm crazy too.

                            Nice thing about these boards is diversity of opinion. Too bad not everyone values the spectrum of opinion as much as they value their own.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by cssutton View Post
                              I drove a 1999 7.3, my second 7.3, 357,000 miles and never saw 16 MPG pulling a trailer. I got 17 to 18 on the interstates at 65 - 70 MPH.

                              Straight drive, 6 gears, 3.57 rear end.

                              AS for 4 x 4, it is a very bad mistake to purchase a diesel without 4x4.

                              I don't really care to spend a lot of time looking for some farmer to bring his tractor to move me to a better place.

                              The first thing a buyer of a used truck looks for is whether it is a 4x4. You will get your money back at that point.

                              CSSJR

                              I take exception to this, my ten year old single rear wheel F-350 diesel 2WD has 386k on it, and I have never gotten stuck. Many, many of those miles were with a 4 horse head to head.
                              "You can't really debate with someone who has a prescient invisible friend"
                              carolprudm

                              Comment


                              • #16
                                Few quick things to point out:

                                As of 2008 ALL F-350's, both SRW and DRW are required to be registered with commercial plates. A vehicle with a GVW of over 10,000 lbs needs to have commercial plates and needs a DOT inspection. For some people, this is zero issue, but for others it is a hassle. If you're buying a dually to tow a two horse bumper pull, I'd think otherwise. DOT inspections are more costly and are also more in-depth. Not all places that inspect do DOT inspections. I know a friend of mine recently swapped his DRW Dodge 2500 to a SRW (costly and a PITA, honestly).

                                On the topic of tuners/programmers/modules/chips:

                                I'm not saying that these are "idiot proof" and everyone who is anyone should go and install them. Let me point this out though.

                                I own a '01 Dodge 2500. It's a 24v Cummins TD with 165k on the engine. I built this truck as a drag truck with over 850+ horses and close to 1,200 lbs of torque. I had modified this truck up the wazoo to run a quarter mile with rev limiters, computer deletes, aftermarket turbos etc. This truck pulls a two horse bumper pull trailer with extremely low EGT's (under 200) at 20 MPG. I am not scared to let my mother, father, friends, boss, fiance etc. drive this truck. I have no fear that it is a truck just for "people who know diesels".

                                Any engine that is electronic based, not mechanical (i.e. all newer trucks/cars etc.) you have the ability to install these tuners and shut them off at any time. All trucks that I've owned have had programmers and I've never felt that these trucks were for experienced truck owners and drivers. As long as someone who is knowledgeable about the tuner and the truck installs the chip, and the driver is well versed in what the chip does and how to make it work, they are fine.

                                I have found that the majority of trucks run better with these tuners. I would not go installing crazy performance parts and doing monster upgrades to create some ridiculously fast, loud, scary truck. I'm saying that if you can install a tuner or programmer that will assist the truck in its job, it is worth while. There are tuners and programmers with monitors/screens that allow the driver to read temps, MPH, MPG, RPM's, EGT's etc. These are all handy with towing.

                                Some chips you can adjust shift points, axel ratios, turbo sizes etc for that specific vehicle. If you choose not to change these settings that's fine! If you do, it's fairly straight forward and it is all information you can find in the owner's manual or online.

                                If you're looking for a solid tow vehicle that stays cool, gets good fuel mileage and you're not looking for the super duper thrills of horsepower, torque etc. I would honestly say to look at a Dodge. I had an '03 3500 crew cab and it always got super fuel mileage and never had a problem. Honestly, Cummins is one of the most reliable diesel engines around. How many other companies can say they had a diesel engine on the market for (correct me if I'm wrong) 11 years? That being the 5.9L. Now they have the 6.7L and it's superb.

                                I'm saying this while I have an Ford as my daily driver. It's an '06 F-250 crew cab SRW. It has the 6.0L TD engine and I hate it. This is the second 6.0L I've owned. 6.0's are not known for their reliability (or their head gaskets! But I digress). I'm actually in the works of doing a Cummins swap into the truck (putting a 5.9L 24v in). The truck has an updated dual coil-over suspension with reservoirs, air bags, Dana 60 4.10 axles etc. It is a dream to tow with but rides like a bronco (amen to a stiff suspension!)

                                I have nothing against 2X4 trucks. I haven't owned one as for what I do and where I live it isn't in my best interest to own one. A fellow trainer friend of mine has only had 2X4 DRW Fords for years and has loved everyone one of them.
                                Originally posted by barka.lounger
                                bar.ka here
                                h/j riders are used to bending over, every.time they pay their.show bills at the office. event.ers not so mu.ch.

                                Comment


                                • #17
                                  I live in TN. I've got a 3500HD Duramax, DRW. It's not registered as a commercial vehicle, nor is there any requirement that I do so. We don't have a vehicle inspection program.

                                  And my plates are $24.50/year.*

                                  So legal issues will change from state to state.

                                  Some companies will insure duallies, and some won't. USAA (with whom I've been insured for 40 years) has a 10,000 pound weight limit. Over that you go to the USAA General Agency and they'll shop the risk. My 2008 3500 makes the cut; I don't know if a 2011 (with a much higher weight limit).

                                  Tuners are problematical as GM (and I've heard the other companies) will consider them aftermarket devices that void the warranty. I don't know if they are correct (I'm not aware of any specific litigation on the issue) but I don't have the money either to spend on a tuner or hire a lawyer to sue GM.

                                  I'm also told that the ECM chips on modern trucks "remember" some types of alterations or attempted alterations. Not being a "gear head" I don't know that this is true. I don't really want to find out, either.

                                  I follow the rule of "horses for courses." I also follow the rule of "trucks for courses." I buy sufficient truck to safely the move (start and stop) the trailer I have when it's fully loaded. I also buy the capability to go "in harm's way" because that's what we do a few times a year. If we go out with our local hunt there's at least a 50% chance that we will be parking on wet grass. Many local trail heads have only poorly prepared parking areas. IME a 4WD truck is much better at getting back on the pavement off wet grass than a 2WD truck. So I spend the money (and accept the penalties in weight and milage) to get that capability.

                                  Around here there is also clear prejudice is in favor of 4WD and that will influence resale value.

                                  There are few "school answers" to the original question.

                                  G.

                                  *No personal property tax, either.
                                  Mangalarga Marchador: Uma Raça, Uma Paixão

                                  Comment


                                  • #18
                                    Just to clarify I am in New England (Massachusetts to be exact) so you'd have to read up on each states inspection rules. Thanks Guilherme!

                                    Tuners, programmers, chips etc. will void a warranty. At this point with my trucks, one is out of warranty and the other has six months left of the warranty. My Ford (in warranty) has a tuner in it. My 2007 F-350 had multiple tuners in it throughout its 27,000 mile life (Thank you deer). I never had an issue with either getting warranty work. As long as you remove the tuners before you go to the dealership you should be fine. Tuners will not leave any kind of "trace" that a tech or mechanic could find. If a vehicle is chipped, where the alteration connects to the vehicles computer directly there are times that it can leave a "trace", but with the right knowledge (you can find it online, it's fairly straightforward), you can remove these traces or footprints as we call them in the programming world. Dont let somebody freak you out with the "footprint" thing, a "footprint" is only a record that the ECM was programmed, this "footprint" does not include a date, time, or detailed record of what the tune was, in fact the same exact "footprint" is left on your ECM wether you tune it with a hypertech, or the dealer re-flashes your factory program. In other words; DON'T STRESS! And don't let people scare you that tuners are the be all end all of your warranty.

                                    Most tuners are simple boxes that you plug into your truck, most do not connect to the computer. There are a few and very high tech programmers that deal directly with the "brain" of your truck, but their expensive and aren't exactly ideal for what you need. The one I use is strictly to shut the computer off in the truck, so it runs off of the throttle computer. A bunch of yada yada if you're not a gear head.

                                    I will say in the 10+ trucks I've owned, with each and every one modified and tuned I have never had an issue with warranty work, ever. Any questions; feel free to ask!
                                    Originally posted by barka.lounger
                                    bar.ka here
                                    h/j riders are used to bending over, every.time they pay their.show bills at the office. event.ers not so mu.ch.

                                    Comment

                                    • Original Poster

                                      #19
                                      Thanks for the input!

                                      Thank you for all your responses!

                                      Just to clarify, I am not interested in a dually. I am only interested in the single rear wheel F-350 (or Chevy 3500). Also, there will be no purchase of a Dodge of any type in my future

                                      Anyway, I currently have a 2003 Sundowner BP 2 horse trailer, but I want to get enough truck that I could upgrade my trailer to a larger gooseneck down the road if I wanted to without having to buy another truck.
                                      Maybe that is why he suggested the F-350 - Because of the heavier rear end?!?!

                                      Let me know what you think
                                      ALP
                                      "The Prince" aka Front Row
                                      Cavalier Manor

                                      Comment


                                      • #20
                                        03 F-350 single wheel works great for my S&H 3 H BP, and has plenty left to upgrade to the gooseneck as i plan in the future too, i prefer it over my silverado mostly because of the whole solid suspension verses chevy independent the only thing about ford is for the 6.0L is a few very common problem IE; egr issues and head bolt issues but i think they got that pretty much taken care of with warranty/recall work, as for the 7.3L great, enginge/power and life. if your thinking new dont know too much about the 6.4 or what ever it is but dont hear too much about it

                                        Comment

                                        Working...
                                        X