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Coyote - should I be concerned?

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  • Calvin-the wolf/dog hybrids don't just occur naturally. There are people who actually breed them deliberately, and only for resale (and they are very expensive too).

    A couple of years ago there were some people who lived in LA County that appeared on the Cesar Millan Dog Whisperer show, and they had bought two hybrids (one was Mexican/Grey wolf and malamute or husky, and the other was some other huge hybrid) from some breeder and since the owners thought they were the same as dogs they had to get Cesar. Both dogs were big, the male was absolutely huge, and they were totally out of control. Many places the hybrids are put down if they end up at animal shelter, because of the unpredictability of the animals. And I did run into a couple of people who actually had hybrids, and they were very unpreditable, and very aggressive. As usual the problem was the owners bought the wrong animals for the wrong reasons, and never tried to be responsible pet owners. It's just like anyone else that gets an animal because they think it will impress people, and the animal usually suffers.

    And there was a wolf refuge place in the mountain above Colorado Springs, and the founder/manager had a couple of wolves that she took to public talks about the shelter and her work. I think she had a few hybrids too, but she said they were totally unpredictable, unlike the pure wolves.

    I'm sure there are people who get hybrids, can't cope with them when they mature, and like other idiots dump them in the wild to fend for themselves. I think a formerly domesticated animal who must hunt for it's survival would probably go for the easy food target like a chicken coop or domestic animals it could trap and kill. And if there is a group of them I would be very worried for my animals, and for humans also. I doubt a hybrid that was raised by people has any fear of humans, unlike a truly wild animal might.
    Last edited by JanM; Oct. 29, 2010, 10:50 AM.
    You can't fix stupid-Ron White


    • Hybrids are also illegal in many states.
      Poor things...it's a rotten thing to breed hydrids. They don't belong wild, feral or domestic.
      You jump in the saddle,
      Hold onto the bridle!
      Jump in the line!


      • I guess I was referring not to dog-wolf hybrids, but the coyote-wolf hybrids that seem to be appearing on the east coast. I've never seen the appeal (or wisdom) of having a wolf or wolf hybrid as a "pet". Heck, you want a potentially vicious, semi-wild dog, their are lots available in the county animal shelter--but they don't have the cache' of being a "wolf!". Ugh.

        Still, I've lived for 42 years in the same town (semi-rural/suburban, bordering Ntl. Forest) and have never heard of or experienced any man vs. coyote/bear/wolf/cougar attacks. We've had some incredibly stupid people claim such events, that of course always prove false.

        Well...I guess the local bobcat did eat my friend's Cairn terrier. Sad, but kind of funny at the same time. Dog had just stolen some pizza, so the cat got two meals in one

        The bears I refer to seem quite happy to leave people well enough alone, as they seem to get plenty to eat. And, they've never so much as batted an eye at my horses, so it's all good.
        Proud member of the "Don't rush to kill wildlife" clique!


        • Originally posted by JanM View Post
          A couple of years ago there were some people who lived in LA County that appeared on the Cesar Millan Dog Whisperer show, and they had bought two hybrids (one was Mexican/Grey wolf and malamute or husky, and the other was some other huge hybrid) from some breeder and since the owners thought they were the same as dogs they had to get Cesar. Both dogs were big, the male was absolutely huge, and they were totally out of control.
          Jeez, huskys are challenging enough without adding wolf to them.
          Life is what happens while you are busy making other plans


          • Friends of ours have had two wolf/husky crosses and both were lovely dogs, so it is not fair to paint them all with the same brush. But, agreed, I think they are the exception rather than the rule. I think it should be illegal to breed wild with domestic, but goes on anyway, and happens in the wild too. We have packs of coy-dogs, but I don't know if they mix with the coyote population as a lifestyle. No wolves down in this part.
            Proud member of People Who Hate to Kill Wildlife clique


            • We have them in SW VA. Big ones. We have had them eat the baby cows, down the road, this fall. The creepiest thing ever though, happened last week. I have a newborn. It was warm, so we had the windows open. I was up with him in the middle of the night and he started crying. Next thing I know, we heard them howling on all sides of the house. One was in the back yard and scampered away when I flicked the light on. The fact that my son made them howl like that sent shivers through my whole body. Our dog isnt allowed out, except on a leash at night.
              For a moment there, you bored me to death


              • Originally posted by Alagirl View Post
                There are people out there that keep all kinds of exotics and cross breed them - or let them get away...
                Last year a "little bit whacky" dog client made an appt for a new "mixed breed puppy" she had. I had missed the conversation she had with the good vet a few weeks earlier about wolf/dog crosses and the good doc told her "do NOT get anything with wolf in it!!" Sure 'nuff, she walked in the clinic with that stinkin' hybrid on the end of the leash. I played "dumb" about what I knew and it was amazing the length to which she went to conceal the facts about that puppy's breeding.

                Seems like she was shown the door out....


                • Use care if you have coyotes frequenting your farm or home.
                  They are losing the fear of man. Yes they eat cats and small dogs. Out here in Northern California we have had coyote attacks on humans. The big problem is they like the garbage cans people leave open and the smell of food will attract them. Chickens and other small farm animals are delicious in their hunting.
                  As we encroach on their habitat there will be more incidents with the coyote and wolves.
                  If you have seen 3 of them there are probably about 20 you do not see.
                  Don't let your children out unsupervised.
                  I would keep a rifle handy by the door.
                  All the philosphising is nice but they are wild animals and they will eat whatever doesn't eat them first.
                  We also have packs of feral dogs out here that are as dangerous as the
                  wild animals or worse.
                  I would really use care with this situation.
                  I am not trying to scare you, but then again I am.
                  Just be careful. Check with your local game warden to see if it is a problem for others, too.


                  • Livestock guard dogs

                    Originally posted by pAin't_Misbehavin' View Post
                    Great Pyrenees are good livestock guardian dogs (LGDs) and aren't generally aggressive with people. BUT their method of deterring coyotes is to BARKBARKBARK so the coyotes know they are on the job. The noise drives some people fruitbat crazy.

                    I like maremma, personally, but they can be aggressive with people. They are also noisy. But I find if I go out to the barking dog, look around, and say "By God, I believe you scared 'em away. Good job!" the dog will hush. Shrieking at the dog to SHERRUP! does not help at all. Never mind how I know this.

                    To prevent roaming, you will need to fence. LGDs think the best way to keep away predators is to patrol the perimeter - and their idea of a perimeter is pretty extensive. It will include your place, the neighbor's place, and maybe the whole county.

                    You will need to do a lot of work with your LGD to make sure s/he knows the poultry are off limits. They can learn this, but you may lose a few chickens while you're teaching it.

                    I don't think you'll have much luck trying to turn a random shelter dog into an LGD. But let me look for the link to the LGD list - there are often rescue LGDs on there.

                    Here you go: http://www.lgd.org/lgdl.html
                    There are a number of large breeds that were bred specifically to be livestock guard dogs. Great Pyrs are one and there are others....and they are often pretty expensive to buy. The sheep ranchers here will have 4-5 of these that are raised with the herds/flocks and will protect them pretty fiercely. Some of these breeds take to obedience training fairly well while others just don't care and do their own thing. The sheep ranchers also have a group of working dogs to move the flocks around (much of this area is open range).

                    We have lots of coyotes here....I love listening to them sing at night but they do come right into my yard and get the Aussies tuned up, especially if they wander over toward the chicken coop (a converted travel trailer...sturdy enough to keep them out).

                    When living in central Oregon years ago we had a family of coyotes that lived in the rimrock on the back 9 acres or so of my 45 acres. We irrigated the pastures with wheel lines and the big male of the family would come out and sit at the side of the pasture while we moved a line. When the water came back on it began flooding the holes of what were called "sage rats", a type of ground squirrel. He'd sit there and wait for them to pop up out of their holes and catch them. I didn't mind at all but one day I say him stalking across the pasture toward my renters back yard where their toddler and little foo-foo dog were playing....told my son (down in the barn) to take him out....he could hunt the fields all he wanted but not around the house and kids and small dogs.
                    Colored Cowhorse Ranch
                    Northern NV


                    • My horse got attacked by one at a old barn of mine - we'd been hearing reports of coyotes being seen in the area and a couple days later Bam! I walked out to get him in the am, saw part of his upper lip on left side was all chewed up with teeth marks (about a two to three inch span)! Granted, my gelding is not a smart cookie by any stretch of the imagination but he's a huge guy - he probably wanted to make friends with the coyote, went to sniff, and was attacked out of self defense. He's been attacked by dogs, cats, geese, gotten a snake bite...you name it he's gotten into it and yet still doesn't understand that other animals are afraid of him. I wish I could put a bubble around him sometimes...


                      • Originally posted by MistyBlue View Post
                        If you do get a donkey...get a regular sized one as opposed to a mini and also ask the seller how territorial it is. Some donkeys just don't care, others will defend their herd and territory like crazy. Do ask before purchasing, otherwise you could just end up with another pet to guard.
                        I'd love to get a LGD but I've been told no more dogs....four is apparently enough in our family

                        What are your thoughts on territorial mini donks in pairs? We have two mini donks, Chuck and Larry, and they are Very. Sure. Nothing. Is. Allowed. In. The. Pasture. Besides. The. Horses. And me, and the food bringer (DH). They pair up and march towards whatever it is - deer, stray dogs, the bald eagle that landed in the pasture - and inform it in no uncertain terms that it IS NOT WELCOME. Are they ok against coyotes? Is their brazen attitude enough to make a coyote reconsider, or should I be concerned? I have to add that of the three horses currently at home with Chuck and Larry, two of them also hate dogs, and will go at them to stomp and/or strike. I know there are coyote in the draw southwest of my pastures - I hear them some nights - and their howling sends chills down my spine.


                        • There's a post over on the Equinesite Bulletin Board that a horse in Massachusetts was attacked and killed by coyotes. Not sure if it's true...I really hope it's not. I've had them on my property for years and they've never bothered my horses.
                          "We're still right, they're still wrong" James Carville


                          • I saw that, and saw you asked for a pm, so would you please update us...

                            If that is true, then that is very frightening information indeed. I have lots of coyotes around here, but my horses are in stalls at night, so I don't really worry. But that attack said it was in the morning, not at night.

                            I think here in the east, we are seeing more abundance of coyotes, and also they are breeding with wolves I read somewhere. They certainly are quite brazen and don't seem to afraid of me.
                            When I know they are out, I do not let the dogs go out. I know my dogs would go after them, and well, I am not so sure if they'd come back.

                            I think if horses had an opportunity to run or get away from a pack, it would be ok. But some places don't have large turnouts. Also, I have observed domestic dogs, just run horses down. Well, didn't really observe it for that long since I called the police. A horse could tire, and dogs, coyotes, predators usually bite at the flanks, and one thing leads to another.

                            I would like to know the update on that coyote attack on the horse in Mass.
                            save lives...spay/neuter/geld


                            • "Coyotes are opportunistic predators. They will certainly go after something that is not "normal" prey if they think they can get it done. I'm not sure I'd want my toddler to be "collateral" damage.

                              It's funny this topic came up again. I was just talking with my neighbor on the phone and he said 3 coyotes were stalking his pasture fence this afternoon where he keeps his goats. This news was a bit disconcerting because I've only seen a lone coyote. Now it appears they are hunting in packs. "

                              Opportunistic is exactly right. Hunting in packs.....YES.
                              Going after something that is not normal prey because the opportunity has presented itself? YES!!!

                              Human adults are predators...not terribly worried about an attack myself.

                              BUT..my neighbor down the street lost a calf and it's mother this past spring, and we just had an incident here that gave me a VERY rude awakening to the fact that they are becoming far more aggressive, and horses are not as safe as y'all want to believe.

                              And no they were not dogs.
                              Could they be more of a wolfish hybrid? possible with the larger than normal size I encountered. But coyotes, they were.

                              Update on the Mass incident?....Yes true.
                              No one wants to believe it can happen, but sadly it can.
                              Be proactive and rethink predator control, is my urgent advice to all.
                              Last edited by Xfactor; Nov. 3, 2010, 10:38 PM. Reason: additional info


                              • Xfactor... why is there no news info on this? Was it reported?
                                "We're still right, they're still wrong" James Carville


                                • http://discus.equinesite.net/discus/...tml?1288873618
                                  this is the link to the equinesite thread

                                  Xfactor, I have to echo chism's question...has this been reported?
                                  I think it is fairly uncommon for a pack of coyotes to attack a healthy horse and if this is the situation, then it is really important to report this so the public can be alerted.

                                  If this is true, this is quite frightening since a horse is much larger than a human and it really needs to be investigated.

                                  I am sorry you don't want to repeat the story, not asking you to. I would like to know it has been reported and proper officials are investigating this incident to protect the public.

                                  I do hope you will respond with an answer about the incident being reported.
                                  save lives...spay/neuter/geld


                                  • See Five...sometimes we are EXACTLY on the same page.
                                    "We're still right, they're still wrong" James Carville


                                    • LOL.
                                      Xfactor, I truly hope you understand why this is important to report. This is a very unusual incident for a pack of coyotes to kill a horse.
                                      If this is true, it really is necessary to let the public know, which you have done on the BB and here, but the public at large needs to know as well. I would also think that fish and game and other wildlife officials would also want to know about this too.

                                      I really hope you have reported it so they can determine what caused a pack of coyotes to take down a healthy horse.
                                      save lives...spay/neuter/geld


                                      • Ive come across this a little late.

                                        Please dont blame wolf hybrids as being evil. They arent. I owned a beautiful 7/8th wolf hybrid many years ago. She was gentle, loving and wonderful. She was Alaskan Tundra/Canadian Timber wolf mixed with German Shepherd.

                                        You have to be careful when you mix and know your dog breeds. Husky's do not make a good mix with a wolf. I'd own another one today if I could. Unfortuantely in my state they dont allow it. You cant treat a hybrid the same way you do with a dog. They have different diets, and require a much different upbringing.

                                        As far as the horse being taken down by a coyote pack I am skeptical. I can see a dog pack. Dogs are far worse than coyotes or wolves. Typically wolves hate coyotes. From my understanding only in the east has there been a mixing of the two. Generally the eastern red wolf has mixed with the eastern coyote. Wolves generally stay hidden. The coyote is a very brave and bold creature where the wolf is behind the scenes. Also wolves take down what's sick. It may not look sick but there's a reason why they took it down. They have done studies on their kills and have found organs the wolves have left that had cancer or something else wrong with it. I think coyotes would be similar. I also believe that study went over a 2 year period and many kills.

                                        Dogs will attack anything. They will also start to eat the prey before it is dead. I'd be more concerned about a pack of dogs taking a horse down before I was concerned with coyotes.

                                        In any event Fish and Game should have been called. A wild life expert should have been called in to exam the remains and make the determination as to the predator. Its all good to say have a gun ready but lets face it. We have moved them out of there territory, built mcmansions, and created this mess. They have just as much right to live as we do. Going around killing coyotes indiscrimately does nothing to solve the problem. Installing fencing that they cant jump or climb through is a solution to the problem.


                                        • Originally posted by Pinkster View Post
                                          We have moved them out of there territory, built mcmansions, and created this mess. They have just as much right to live as we do. Going around killing coyotes indiscrimately does nothing to solve the problem.
                                          I dunno. I think shooting the bold ones must have been fairly effective back in the day or the whole country would now be living on the East Coast and the well-to-do would take Safaris to Kansas. I'm not usually a big proponent of taking it back to Grandpappy's time, but when you're talking about wild animals, it's not like they've evolved much past "Hmm, that gun seems dangerous, I'm moving on down the road."