Sport Horse Spotlight

Friend Or Foe©BrantGammaPhotos.WC7B1578

Real Estate Spotlight

1539 Hatchaway Bridge Road 100

Sale Spotlight

COTH_without Subscribe
  • Welcome to the Chronicle Forums.
    Please complete your profile. The forums and the rest of www.chronofhorse.com has single sign-in, so your log in information for one will automatically work for the other. Disclaimer: The opinions expressed here are the views of the individual and do not necessarily reflect the views and opinions of The Chronicle of the Horse.

Announcement

Collapse

Forum rules and no-advertising policy

As a participant on this forum, it is your responsibility to know and follow our rules. Please read this message in its entirety.

Board Rules

1. You�re responsible for what you say.
As outlined in Section 230 of the Communications Decency Act, The Chronicle of the Horse and its affiliates, as well Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd., the developers of vBulletin, are not legally responsible for statements made in the Forums.

This is a public forum viewed by a wide spectrum of people, so please be mindful of what you say and who might be reading it�details of personal disputes may be better handled privately. While posters are legally responsible for their statements, the moderators may in their discretion remove or edit posts, though are not legally obligated to do so, regardless of content.

Users have the ability to modify or delete their own messages after posting. Moderators generally will not delete posts, threads or accounts unless they have been alerted and have determined that a post, thread or user has violated the Forums� policies. Moderators do not regularly independently monitor the Forums for such violations.

Profanity, outright vulgarity, blatant personal insults or otherwise inappropriate statements will not be tolerated and will be dealt with at the discretion of the moderators.

Users may provide their positive or negative experiences with or opinions of companies, products, individuals, etc.; however, accounts involving allegations of criminal behavior against named individuals or companies MUST be first-hand accounts and may NOT be made anonymously.

If a situation has been reported upon by a reputable news source or addressed by law enforcement or the legal system it is open for discussion, but if an individual wants to make their own claims of criminal behavior against a named party in the course of that discussion, they too must identify themselves by first and last name and the account must be first-person.

Criminal allegations that do not satisfy these requirements, when brought to our attention, may be removed pending satisfaction of these criteria, and we reserve the right to err on the side of caution when making these determinations.

Credible threats of suicide will be reported to the police along with identifying user information at our disposal, in addition to referring the user to suicide helpline resources such as 1-800-SUICIDE or 1-800-273-TALK.

2. Conversations in horse-related forums should be horse-related.
The forums are a wonderful source of information and support for members of the horse community. While it�s understandably tempting to share information or search for input on other topics upon which members might have a similar level of knowledge, members must maintain the focus on horses.

3. Keep conversations productive, on topic and civil.
Discussion and disagreement are inevitable and encouraged; personal insults, diatribes and sniping comments are unproductive and unacceptable. Whether a subject is light-hearted or serious, keep posts focused on the current topic and of general interest to other participants of that thread. Utilize the private message feature or personal email where appropriate to address side topics or personal issues not related to the topic at large.

4. No advertising in the discussion forums.
Posts in the discussion forums directly or indirectly advertising horses, jobs, items or services for sale or wanted will be removed at the discretion of the moderators. Use of the private messaging feature or email addresses obtained through users� profiles for unsolicited advertising is not permitted.

Company representatives may participate in discussions and answer questions about their products or services, or suggest their products on recent threads if they fulfill the criteria of a query. False "testimonials" provided by company affiliates posing as general consumers are not appropriate, and self-promotion of sales, ad campaigns, etc. through the discussion forums is not allowed.

Paid advertising is available on our classifieds site and through the purchase of banner ads. The tightly monitored Giveaways forum permits free listings of genuinely free horses and items available or wanted (on a limited basis). Items offered for trade are not allowed.

Advertising Policy Specifics
When in doubt of whether something you want to post constitutes advertising, please contact a moderator privately in advance for further clarification. Refer to the following points for general guidelines:

Horses � Only general discussion about the buying, leasing, selling and pricing of horses is permitted. If the post contains, or links to, the type of specific information typically found in a sales or wanted ad, and it�s related to a horse for sale, regardless of who�s selling it, it doesn�t belong in the discussion forums.

Stallions � Board members may ask for suggestions on breeding stallion recommendations. Stallion owners may reply to such queries by suggesting their own stallions, only if their horse fits the specific criteria of the original poster. Excessive promotion of a stallion by its owner or related parties is not permitted and will be addressed at the discretion of the moderators.

Services � Members may use the forums to ask for general recommendations of trainers, barns, shippers, farriers, etc., and other members may answer those requests by suggesting themselves or their company, if their services fulfill the specific criteria of the original post. Members may not solicit other members for business if it is not in response to a direct, genuine query.

Products � While members may ask for general opinions and suggestions on equipment, trailers, trucks, etc., they may not list the specific attributes for which they are in the market, as such posts serve as wanted ads.

Event Announcements � Members may post one notification of an upcoming event that may be of interest to fellow members, if the original poster does not benefit financially from the event. Such threads may not be �bumped� excessively. Premium members may post their own notices in the Event Announcements forum.

Charities/Rescues � Announcements for charitable or fundraising events can only be made for 501(c)(3) tax-exempt organizations. Special exceptions may be made, at the moderators� discretion and direction, for board-related events or fundraising activities in extraordinary circumstances.

Occasional posts regarding horses available for adoption through IRS-registered horse rescue or placement programs are permitted in the appropriate forums, but these threads may be limited at the discretion of the moderators. Individuals may not advertise or make announcements for horses in need of rescue, placement or adoption unless the horse is available through a recognized rescue or placement agency or government-run entity or the thread fits the criteria for and is located in the Giveaways forum.

5. Do not post copyrighted photographs unless you have purchased that photo and have permission to do so.

6. Respect other members.
As members are often passionate about their beliefs and intentions can easily be misinterpreted in this type of environment, try to explore or resolve the inevitable disagreements that arise in the course of threads calmly and rationally.

If you see a post that you feel violates the rules of the board, please click the �alert� button (exclamation point inside of a triangle) in the bottom left corner of the post, which will alert ONLY the moderators to the post in question. They will then take whatever action, or no action, as deemed appropriate for the situation at their discretion. Do not air grievances regarding other posters or the moderators in the discussion forums.

Please be advised that adding another user to your �Ignore� list via your User Control Panel can be a useful tactic, which blocks posts and private messages by members whose commentary you�d rather avoid reading.

7. We have the right to reproduce statements made in the forums.
The Chronicle of the Horse may copy, quote, link to or otherwise reproduce posts, or portions of posts, in print or online for advertising or editorial purposes, if attributed to their original authors, and by posting in this forum, you hereby grant to The Chronicle of the Horse a perpetual, non-exclusive license under copyright and other rights, to do so.

8. We reserve the right to enforce and amend the rules.
The moderators may delete, edit, move or close any post or thread at any time, or refrain from doing any of the foregoing, in their discretion, and may suspend or revoke a user�s membership privileges at any time to maintain adherence to the rules and the general spirit of the forum. These rules may be amended at any time to address the current needs of the board.

Please see our full Terms of Service and Privacy Policy for more information.

Thanks for being a part of the COTH forums!

(Revised 5/9/18)
See more
See less

Equine Liability Insurance

Collapse
X
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Equine Liability Insurance

    Owner requiring Personal Equine Liability insurance for boarders, this is self-care boarding. Haven't boarded a horse in a long time, is this a new thing? I can see the logic behind it, but have not run into this previously, so didn't know if this has become the new norm.

  • #2
    Originally posted by Left at the Alter View Post
    Owner requiring Personal Equine Liability insurance for boarders, this is self-care boarding. Haven't boarded a horse in a long time, is this a new thing? I can see the logic behind it, but have not run into this previously, so didn't know if this has become the new norm.
    No not that new. I've had it for years since I rough board and don't own a home. Some places require it. It's worth the peace of mind. I get mine through Corinthian Insurance.
    "When a horse greets you with a nicker & regards you with a large & liquid eye, the question of where you want to be & what you want to do has been answered." CANTER New England

    Comment


    • #3
      humm, ask them if they have care and custody insurance since they are responsible to contain the said beast

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by Left at the Alter View Post
        Owner requiring Personal Equine Liability insurance for boarders, this is self-care boarding. Haven't boarded a horse in a long time, is this a new thing? I can see the logic behind it, but have not run into this previously, so didn't know if this has become the new norm.
        Based on other threads in CoTH I think that a BO requiring a boarder to have Personal Equine Liability insurance is very country and regional dependent. I have never seen it required in my area which is SE PA. However I have chosen to go with an additional umbrella/liability type policy on my homeowners that will protect me if my horse injures somebody. This way it isn't limited to just my horse.
        Oh, well, clearly you're not thoroughly indoctrinated to COTH yet, because finger pointing and drawing conclusions are the cornerstones of this great online community. (Tidy Rabbit)

        Comment


        • #5
          You can get Equine Personal Liability Insurance for relatively cheap through some of your local or national horse groups. I have mine through the Virginia Horse Council. It is $50 to join the council as an individual ($75 for family) and then the EPLI is $25 for an individual($45 for a family).

          I believe you can find something similar through different breed organizations as well.

          ETA: The EPLI is a 1 million dollar policy

          Comment

          • Original Poster

            #6
            Sorry it took me so long to get back to this thread. Thanks for the answers.

            Originally posted by clanter View Post
            humm, ask them if they have care and custody insurance since they are responsible to contain the said beast
            Didn't know that in a Selfcare situation the land owner needed to have CCC, good to know, I'll check.

            SonnysMom not too far from you Central Maryland

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by Left at the Alter View Post
              Owner requiring Personal Equine Liability insurance for boarders, this is self-care boarding. Haven't boarded a horse in a long time, is this a new thing? I can see the logic behind it, but have not run into this previously, so didn't know if this has become the new norm.
              I would wonder if the owner is under-insured and/or not insured themselves, and hoping the boarders' insurance will cover them in the event of an incident.

              That would concern me as a boarder - because I don't want my insurance to kick in only because the facility owner doesn't have any.

              I would ask about their own insurance coverage before boarding my horse there.

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by Left at the Alter View Post
                Owner requiring Personal Equine Liability insurance for boarders, this is self-care boarding. Haven't boarded a horse in a long time, is this a new thing? I can see the logic behind it, but have not run into this previously, so didn't know if this has become the new norm.
                An EPL policy is quick and easy to get from Hallmark insurance (www.hallmarkhorse.com) and comes in 3 different $$$ amounts. Check it out!
                Inese

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by clanter View Post
                  humm, ask them if they have care and custody insurance since they are responsible to contain the said beast
                  I thought care, custody, control insurance only applied if the BM/BO was found negligent in case of a claim... it does not cover every possible liability scenario
                  Inese

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    If the owner is running a self-care boarding operation without commercial liability coverage, he/she is playing with fire. It s a good idea to have anyone boarding (even in the field, even with self care) to have their own liability insurance. It is cheap, cheap, cheap for an individual policy. However, that is NOT going to protect the farm owner from a suit alleging their negilgence or an issue with a contract. And it really does need to be a commercial policy not a personal homeowner's policy. Basically the owner is what we call "naked" without the coverage and could become a deep pocket in a suit between boarders.
                    Where Norwegian Fjords Rule
                    http://www.ironwood-farm.com

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Honestly, if you own a horse, having your own personal equine liability policy is a great idea whether or not it is required. Owners of animals are generally held responsible for damages or injuries caused by that animal. If your horse bites or kicks someone, or breaks loose and gets out in the road, as the owner you could be held responsible. As IronwoodFarm describes, these policies are very inexpensive, overall a great deal for the horse owner.

                      It is very reasonable for a barn to recommend or even require that you have this insurance, even if they are well insured themselves. I do NOT think that requiring these policies is some kind of a red flag that the BO is not properly insured. I recommend these policies all the time and I am well insured. It is perfectly fair to ask what insurance a facility has, but it has been my experience that people are not always up front about that kind of information.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        I recently discovered personal liability insurance for my horses and it is such peace of mind! I went through Hallmark Equine Insurance as well and they were great and so helpful. I was amazed at how affordable it was too! 800-734-0598

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by BeeHoney View Post
                          It is perfectly fair to ask what insurance a facility has, but it has been my experience that people are not always up front about that kind of information.
                          That seems odd, though. Especially in a self-care situation where the owner is requiring boarders to obtain insurance.

                          I would definitely want some proof that the owner is carrying an insurance policy that would protect ME if I got hurt while at the barn, from whatever source. That is the main expense in a boarding policy - it's not facility damage by horses, but injuries to boarders….could be from a horse, or from a million other farm related injuries (e.g. hay falling from a stack, a slip and fall while dumping manure, or an injury while leading a horse.) Or, an injury to the vet or farrier while at the barn - whose insurance is going to kick in if the vet falls on ice, for example?

                          It's probably not going to be covered by the personal equine insurance - and/or I'd be pretty angry if my insurance got tapped as a source because the barn did not have any commercial coverage.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by S1969 View Post

                            That seems odd, though. Especially in a self-care situation where the owner is requiring boarders to obtain insurance.

                            Actually, discussing publicly how well insured you are is generally unwise. It could encourage people to file frivolous lawsuits or to incorrectly presume that the insurance would cover a myriad of things that it doesn't. Insurance companies generally counsel clients to treat amounts of insurance coverage as private information. Personally I think it is fine to ask a BO if they have a commercial policy or CC&C insurance if you are boarding a valuable horse with them.

                            I would definitely want some proof that the owner is carrying an insurance policy that would protect ME if I got hurt while at the barn, from whatever source.

                            Ok, so let me just be frank here. A commercial policy exists to protect and benefit the barn owner. A commercial policy is in place to protect a barn owner from liability, not to willingly cover medical bills of customers. Many states have laws in place that limit liability surrounding equine activities, so your ability to sue successfully for any injuries sustained might be fairly limited. Secondly, let's say you were injured due to negligence--the only way you could access that insurance policy would be if you filed a lawsuit against the barn. In that scenario, you have to hire a lawyer (or convince a lawyer to take your case for a portion of any proceeds). The BO's insurance company will be paying their lawyer fees to defend them from the lawsuit. The time frame of pursuing such a lawsuit is very long term. The potential for getting any money is likely pretty variable due to circumstances. In the meantime, you could be racking up medical bills and debt with a lot of uncertainty. It is FAR better for customers at an equestrian facility to have their own adequate medical insurance and to rely on that in the event of an accident or injury.

                            That is the main expense in a boarding policy - it's not facility damage by horses, but injuries to boarders….could be from a horse, or from a million other farm related injuries (e.g. hay falling from a stack, a slip and fall while dumping manure, or an injury while leading a horse.)

                            Again, just to clarify, liability for many types of these injuries is likely to be limited by equine specific state liability laws. Injuries that occur on the job (while working as an employee) would be covered by Workmans comp, and injuries to a person engaged in caring for their own horse would likely not be covered.

                            Or, an injury to the vet or farrier while at the barn - whose insurance is going to kick in if the vet falls on ice, for example?

                            Vets and farriers should maintain their own health and disability insurance. When an accident happens, a vet or a farrier would have medical bills and limited income due to disability right away and would need to rely on their own policies. The situation of a vet or farrier suing a farm would be extremely rare. Those people are equine professionals and are expected to be prepared for some degree of adverse barnyard conditions due to weather and the unpredictable nature of horses, and are responsible for restraining unruly horses (or having the professional judgement to refuse to work on a dangerous horse).

                            It's probably not going to be covered by the personal equine insurance - and/or I'd be pretty angry if my insurance got tapped as a source because the barn did not have any commercial coverage.
                            You are correct that there could be some circumstances where your liability and the liability of the BO could intersect--let's say your horse gets out on the road and causes an accident--both YOU and the BO could be held liable. It's very fair to expect that your BO be insured. BUT, I would also say that the wisest course of action is to always be sure that YOU are appropriately insured because that is the only factor you can 100% control. What if your BO shows you a copy of his insurance policy when you arrive, but then fails to pay the next premium and it lapses? What if your horse injures someone and a jury decides that YOU are responsible, not the BO? Ultimately, you having your own policy would protect you.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              USEF has a good policy that you can get fairly cheaply with a regular or fan membership. It would cover you, as the horse owner.

                              The farm owner needs their own policy to protect THEM from you suing them.
                              http://weanieeventer.blogspot.com/

                              Comment


                              • #16
                                Equine liability statutes we see on the signs cover things that horses do, like spooking at something and running away. You are liable for things that humans do, like using tack or over-facing -- picking which horse you are going to ride. Horses don't build fences so if they get out it's your problem, Beach rides and public trail rides are pretty much gone in this area because the insurance is so expensive. My BO's insurance paid a settlement to a rider because a piece of leather tack broke. The rider wasn't injured although she fell off at the walk. The income didn't pay for the additional insurance.

                                The State of Maine has a statue that protects property owners from liability if someone is on their property, such as for horseback riding or hunting. There are requirements for what and where you post for trespassing if you want to keep people off your property.
                                "With hardly any other living being can a human connect as closely over so many years as a rider can with her horse." Isabell Werth, Four Legs Move My Soul. 2019

                                Comment


                                • #17
                                  Originally posted by BeeHoney View Post

                                  You are correct that there could be some circumstances where your liability and the liability of the BO could intersect--let's say your horse gets out on the road and causes an accident--both YOU and the BO could be held liable. It's very fair to expect that your BO be insured. BUT, I would also say that the wisest course of action is to always be sure that YOU are appropriately insured because that is the only factor you can 100% control. What if your BO shows you a copy of his insurance policy when you arrive, but then fails to pay the next premium and it lapses? What if your horse injures someone and a jury decides that YOU are responsible, not the BO? Ultimately, you having your own policy would protect you.
                                  Well, sure. Of course it doesn't hurt to have insurance for yourself.

                                  In a self-care situation, however, I would want proof that the owner understands that THEY need to carry liability insurance as well. I could easily imagine that a property owner might think they are not in danger of a lawsuit if they are not handling the horses. But they are the ones allowing others on their property. So if a fellow boarder leads your horse out of the barn, trips and gets kicked in the head -- whose insurance is kicking in when her health insurance wants to subrogate the claim?

                                  I think most commercial boarding stables would not be underinsured because this is their business. My neighbors has a self-care boarder with 5 horses. They know absolutely nothing about horses, but bought a farm that had a 5 stall barn and paddocks and figured they could make some extra money. I would not be surprised to find out that they have zero liability insurance for the boarded horses and owners, or anyone else that handled the horses.

                                  I'm not sure it's really a bad thing for the owner to demonstrate proof of insurance. I don't really think that makes them more open for a claim because someone knows their limits. One would expect all barn owners to be insured.

                                  Comment


                                  • #18
                                    Originally posted by S1969 View Post


                                    In a self-care situation, however, I would want proof that the owner understands that THEY need to carry liability insurance as well. I could easily imagine that a property owner might think they are not in danger of a lawsuit if they are not handling the horses. But they are the ones allowing others on their property. So if a fellow boarder leads your horse out of the barn, trips and gets kicked in the head -- whose insurance is kicking in when her health insurance wants to subrogate the claim?

                                    I think most commercial boarding stables would not be underinsured because this is their business. My neighbors has a self-care boarder with 5 horses. They know absolutely nothing about horses, but bought a farm that had a 5 stall barn and paddocks and figured they could make some extra money. I would not be surprised to find out that they have zero liability insurance for the boarded horses and owners, or anyone else that handled the horses.

                                    I'm not sure it's really a bad thing for the owner to demonstrate proof of insurance. I don't really think that makes them more open for a claim because someone knows their limits. One would expect all barn owners to be insured.
                                    In a self-care boarding situation, if a fellow boarder leads your horse in and gets kicked in the head, you (as the owner of the horse) would be primary person liable, not the BO. It's the same scenario if you invite a friend out to ride your horse and your horse bucks them off and they are injured. This is because there is a general legal principle in the US that owners of animals are responsible for the actions of that animal and any damages it causes.

                                    Obviously this is a simplistic explanation as anyone can be sued for anything. The key point is that having friends and fellow boarders help care for a horse via a group arrangement in a self care setting opens individual horse owners up to a lot of extra liability. A barn's commercial policy does NOT protect horse owners at all when they personally allow friends or fellow boarders to handle their horse.

                                    In comparison, in a professional full care setting, the only people that should be handling/caring for a horse should be professional barn staff. If a professional barn staff member is injured, their employer is responsible for them because they were injured on the job and ideally they would be covered by Workmans Comp, which makes it impossible for them to sue over a work related injury. In a full care setting, it also is generally pretty clear that the BO has custody of the animal and is responsible for controlling it and managing it on a day to day basis. In this type of setting horse owners have a lot of protection from liability. Again, this is a simplistic explanation as anyone can sue for anything, and animal owners can always be held responsible for any damages their animal causes.

                                    But, you are 100% correct that even a self-care facility owner should carry a commercial liability policy. Accidents related to how the facility is managed or maintained could definitely result in liability. A potential exception would be a scenario where a facility is rented out to a tenant, and the tenants are responsible for management and upkeep. This may be your neighbor's scenario--they have rented part of their property out to a tenant. A rental arrangement is different from a self-care board arrangement.

                                    Obviously any property owner or equine business owner should be consulting both a lawyer and an insurance agent to make sure they have protected themselves adequately with proper contracts, releases and insurance.

                                    Comment


                                    • #19
                                      Originally posted by BeeHoney View Post

                                      In a self-care boarding situation, if a fellow boarder leads your horse in and gets kicked in the head, you (as the owner of the horse) would be primary person liable, not the BO. It's the same scenario if you invite a friend out to ride your horse and your horse bucks them off and they are injured. This is because there is a general legal principle in the US that owners of animals are responsible for the actions of that animal and any damages it causes.

                                      Obviously this is a simplistic explanation as anyone can be sued for anything. T
                                      Well, yes, I think that is too simplistic. If the barn owner is selecting the boarders and they are paying him/her to board there, I don't see the boarding barn being off the hook here.

                                      Are you a lawyer or are you just extrapolating how you think it would work.

                                      Currently, I am a named party in a lawsuit because my daughter was in an accident in a car I own. I wasn't even in the car, let alone the driver. I think the idea that the barn owner's insurance is not going to get tapped in a situation like this is optimistic at best.

                                      Comment


                                      • #20
                                        S1969, No, I am definitely not a lawyer, but neither am I just guessing. I have owned, managed, and rented farms and equine businesses for decades and have consulted with insurance agents and lawyers many times regarding these exact issues. I strongly recommend that anyone with specific real life questions should consult their insurance agent--it's an easy phone call--and consider involving a lawyer in your state for recommendations.

                                        Anyway, a commercial policy protects a BO from liability related to any negligence on the part of the BO/the business/ the employees. The fact that an accident occurred on the premises does not necessarily = negligence on the part of the barn. Let's take the case you describe, where a self-care boarder makes an agreement with another boarder to take turns feeding and turning out the horses, and one of the boarders gets kicked in the head. I think it would likely be a challenge to go to court and prove that the BO was somehow negligent in that scenario. Obviously it also might be difficult to surmount any state statutes limiting equine liability and/or any liability releases that may have been signed.

                                        I agree with you 100% that lawsuits can always happen and a BO should be appropriately insured, because defending a lawsuit with little-no merit can still be expensive.

                                        I'm sorry that you are in that situation WRT your current lawsuit. I don't think that there are a lot of parallels between automobile insurance/liability and equine commercial insurance/liability, but that still seems like a very difficult and stressful situation.

                                        Comment

                                        Working...
                                        X