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OK... so NOT Stolen hay... Just a misunderstanding!!

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  • #41
    Originally posted by Tamara in TN View Post
    again how is preventing access to one's property a "petty"matter...???

    if I take the battery out of a Lexus, in ransom for some imagined payment, is that "petty" ???

    or do you think it's "petty" because it's just "farm equipment"? I am really interested in that logic

    Tamara in TN
    It’s petty because you’re two people who know and speak to each other, who have an agreement, who have each other’s contact information and you’re engaging in a pissing contest. Nothing to do with it being a fancy car or farm equipment and everything to do with two acquaintances not being able to work things out. It’s not the job of the police to play kindergarten teacher or referee or whatever.

    Comment


    • #42
      Originally posted by GoodyTwo View Post
      It’s petty because you’re two people who know and speak to each other, who have an agreement, who have each other’s contact information and you’re engaging in a pissing contest. Nothing to do with it being a fancy car or farm equipment and everything to do with two acquaintances not being able to work things out. It’s not the job of the police to play kindergarten teacher or referee or whatever.
      It seems like taking a key or battery would be the start of the pissing contest.
      There is no way to getting around to the fact that doing so is a confrontational act and if you want to remain good neighbors or have good relationship with the farmers in your area, you don't mess with their stuff. If you're a person who feels strongly enough to do that, then you are better suited to have a written and signed agreement for the work, in which case that would be your protection, not the keys or battery.

      Comment


      • #43
        Originally posted by GoodyTwo View Post
        It’s petty because you’re two people who know and speak to each other, who have an agreement, who have each other’s contact information and you’re engaging in a pissing contest. Nothing to do with it being a fancy car or farm equipment and everything to do with two acquaintances not being able to work things out. It’s not the job of the police to play kindergarten teacher or referee or whatever.
        ok so (again) if I take the battery out of your car...it's ok ?? we'll have a good laugh and get a latte ??

        Tamara in TN
        Production Acres,Pro A Welsh Cobs
        I am one of the last 210,000 remaining full time farmers in America.We feed the others.

        Comment


        • #44
          I am glad that the OP and her hay guy have sorted things out, but I'm with Tamara on the "don't even think about touching my baler".

          I won't ever make as much hay as she does, and it's probably not as nice but do NOT touch my 'just farm machinery'.

          Haying is hard, fussy, itchy, hot, very hard work before a bale even hits the ground. - I know many of you have done some or all it yourselves, but the general lack of knowledge about what it takes to get a bale of hay in the barn by lots of horse people can get tiring.


          Just sayin'

          Comment


          • #45
            The way it's going with expenses and such, a land owner is fortunate to find a hay maker who'll pay something for it. I know some who cut hay on other people's land and don't pay for it because the cost and work almost equals the value of the hay. The land owner get's it mowed for free and that's it. That's what I've been doing for a hunting club that rents the land next to us, keeping the fields mowed for free, and I keep the hay for doing it. What I'm doing for the next few days because it's the first dry weather we've had for awhile.
            My equipment is very old and requires frequent repair, but I manage to fill my barn and keep 6 horses fed.

            Comment

            • Original Poster

              #46
              Originally posted by reubenT View Post
              The way it's going with expenses and such, a land owner is fortunate to find a hay maker who'll pay something for it. I know some who cut hay on other people's land and don't pay for it because the cost and work almost equals the value of the hay. The land owner get's it mowed for free and that's it.
              I hear ya here. I did feel a tiny tinge of guilt for asking him to pay for it, but it's not like I was trying to rip him off. I didn't plan on him taking it, so I just told him to pay me what my profit would have been.

              As for cutting it for free... well, I have a tractor and a brushhog... I could cut it myself if I just wanted it cut and not hayed.

              I know the work and expense that goes into baling. My uncle did hay for years and years, til he died. We worked for him every summer. It's backbreaking work and the equipment is BIG $$$$$... so I see why Tamara would take exception to someone 'suggesting' touching hay equipment, even jokingly.
              ******
              Shadow Dancer 2/17/91-12/23/10 - My Horse, My Heart <3

              Comment


              • #47
                I'm not sure I agree that it's acceptable for the land owner to get nothing in return for their land being hayed. We have two written contracts with land owners in the area, and we are doing 70/30 splits on both properties - we provide the labor and equipment needed to hay the land. If the land owner wishes to get a greater yield from their land (and therefore more hay for them to feed their animals or sell), they provide the fertilizer/seeds/weed killer for us to use on their land, but we, again, provide the labor and equipment. So far it's worked great - they get their land maintained, get some income from it (one land owner can cover their taxes with the hay sales, and actually gets a discount on property taxes because their land is producing something agricultural), and we get more hay ground.
                -Jessica

                Comment


                • #48
                  Just sayin', if someone called my station and explained the situation from the baler's perspective, and said that his/her equipment was now missing batteries...that's THEFT of a battery. Which can be very spendy. You cannot hold for ransom a piece of property in exchange for something, really quite illegal. ETA: liens done property through the COURT is a different matter.

                  So Tamara is correct, and whoever is sticking to their guns is incorrect. And whoever said the police don't play kindergarten referee, I recommend you go on a ride-along. We DO play kindergarten referee every damn day, because I'm convinced 50 percent of the "adult" population can't play nicely. In fact, I did it just today. And yesterday. Actually, twice yesterday. And I'm sure I'll do it again next week.
                  COTH's official mini-donk enabler

                  "I am all for reaching out, but in some situations it needs to be done with a rolled up news paper." Alagirl

                  Comment


                  • #49
                    Wow. Looks like this poor farmer almost got accused of stealing hay when your husband told him he could have it.

                    Didn't you even ask your husband about it before trying to get ahold of the farmer? Did he lie about it?

                    If your husband told him he could have the second cut then the farmer should not have to pay for it.

                    Around here, it's difficult to get people to cut and bale your hay and I know if I did something tlike that to a local farmer, my name would be mud.

                    He may have seemed calm when you talked to him but I bet he was having a few choice thoughts .

                    Bizarre.

                    Comment

                    • Original Poster

                      #50
                      Originally posted by egontoast View Post
                      Wow. Looks like this poor farmer almost got accused of stealing hay when your husband told him he could have it.

                      Didn't you even ask your husband about it before trying to get ahold of the farmer? Did he lie about it?

                      If your husband told him he could have the second cut then the farmer should not have to pay for it.

                      Around here, it's difficult to get people to cut and bale your hay and I know if I did something tlike that to a local farmer, my name would be mud.

                      He may have seemed calm when you talked to him but I bet he was having a few choice thoughts .

                      Bizarre.
                      WOW, is right. Does no one read for comprehension? My husband told me that he did NOT tell him he could have it. He said the helper came and asked if he would be interested in selling the second cutting and my husband told him to talk to me. They never did. When I called "Farmer", he said, "Your husband said you didn't want it" and I corrected him and told him what my intention was for the field. He then offered to bring it back, I told him that wasn't necessary, but that I would appreciate it if he would please pay me for it (at a VERY low $$ because he baled it, after all). I also told him that if he would rather not pay for it and bring it back, that was fine too. Keep in mind, farmer ALSO told me that my field was fertilized this year and charged me $400 when it was blatantly obvious that the field was NOT fertilized. I had intended on not using him again anyway. I just didn't want to burn a bridge. I was trying to be nice. He can have his few choice thoughts if he so chooses, but I believe I took the high road with him on MORE than one occasion, and I TOO, have more than a few choice thoughts.

                      I can't believe you are making me out to be the bad guy. That's ok though. It's not the first time and I'm certain it won't be the last. Try to do right and get the short end.
                      ******
                      Shadow Dancer 2/17/91-12/23/10 - My Horse, My Heart <3

                      Comment


                      • #51
                        Originally posted by Liscar View Post
                        Keep in mind, farmer ALSO told me that my field was fertilized this year and charged me $400 when it was blatantly obvious that the field was NOT fertilized. I had intended on not using him again anyway. .
                        the lesson here is salient from both sides....get these things in writing....not the husband talking to the hired help who relays it back to the farmer who relays it to the wife a week after the incident that has so much dander up...even hypothetically


                        I would only address the fertilizer issue as it seems you feel cheated there as well

                        of the three N,P and K...only N is normally used between
                        cuttings as a "bump" for top foliage....after each cutting this is
                        applied w/in one or two days after cutting as the grass is low enough to drive over w/o damage...here after one week no one dares drive on the hay...period.

                        now P and K have as their value root builders and increasing the plants ability to bring the ground nutrients up into the plant...as do the micro minerals most farmers just read about and never use anyway....

                        $588 a ton of 19-19-19 at 200lb/acre for bumps between cuttings (to be done properly) would do 10 acres...(so $58/acre before machine time) not much more...less application than that and the visible effects are negligible in most areas...and then you are only seeing the immediate effects of the N

                        Tamara in TN
                        Production Acres,Pro A Welsh Cobs
                        I am one of the last 210,000 remaining full time farmers in America.We feed the others.

                        Comment


                        • #52
                          Originally posted by Tamara in TN View Post
                          make no damned doubt,if you lay a finger on my equipment w/o proper registered lien or notice of repossession I WILL go after you for whatever the law allows,be it vandalism,attempted theft,or remove it and it is theft...
                          and there is nothing petty about 5 or 6 figure pieces of equipment
                          well, if you are so protective of your expensive equipment, why would you (you being the farmer in the OP's post) leave it sitting on my property for a week after you are done baling?
                          And if you left your Lexus parked on my property for a week and did not return my calls- no, I would not steal the battery, I would have it towed.
                          It has nothing to do with not valuing farm equipment.
                          And if you showed up at my door threatening me or with a gun because you did not like that I took the key out of your tractor when you left it parked on my farm for a week, then I would be calling the cops on you and pressing charges. No matter how in the wrong you may think I am, showing up threatening me in response is not an acceptable and is in fact illegal- removing the key from equipment parked on my property after failing to respond to my attempts to contact you, not illegal.
                          There is something about the outside of a horse that is good for the inside of a man.(Churchill)

                          Comment

                          • Original Poster

                            #53
                            Thanks Tamara I appreciate your posts.

                            The fertilizer was supposedly applied in April. At which time, husband was laid off and home all the time, never saw hide nor hair of a fertilizer vehicle, never saw any "driven on" field, not to mention the difference in my field, and the difference in the field across the street was tremendous. That one LOOKED fertilized. But, what do I know? We just squared with him, even after telling him that we knew the field wasn't fertilized. From now on, we will do the fertilizing. Then at least we'll know we're really getting something for our money.

                            Maybe from now on, I should just buy hay from somewhere else and forget trying to farm my own!
                            ******
                            Shadow Dancer 2/17/91-12/23/10 - My Horse, My Heart <3

                            Comment


                            • #54
                              [QUOTE]
                              Originally posted by bambam View Post
                              well, if you are so protective of your expensive equipment, why would you (you being the farmer in the OP's post) leave it sitting on my property for a week after you are done baling?
                              my leases allow it for any length of time that's why

                              And if you left your Lexus parked on my property for a week and did not return my calls- no, I would not steal the battery, I would have it towed.
                              again do I have a written agreement to park it there ?
                              It has nothing to do with not valuing farm equipment.
                              And if you showed up at my door threatening me or with a gun because you did not like that I took the key out of your tractor when you left it parked on my farm for a week, then I would be calling the cops on you and pressing charges
                              rock and roll with that try it some time and tell me how it goes... we don't use weapons ..we have written agreements and the law on our side...did you miss Jenners post on the matter ?? other farmers would not be so considerate about the whole thing as to bother the police...


                              .
                              No matter how in the wrong you may think I am, showing up threatening me in response is not an acceptable and is in fact illegal- removing the key from equipment parked on my property after failing to respond to my attempts to contact you, not illegal.
                              or not

                              Tamara in TN
                              Production Acres,Pro A Welsh Cobs
                              I am one of the last 210,000 remaining full time farmers in America.We feed the others.

                              Comment


                              • #55
                                Op, your story keeps changing.




                                You wanna know the truth? I'd bet dollars to donuts that my husband DID tell him we didn't want (but I bet he said he would sell it to him) the second cut but won't fess up, which is another problem in and of itself.
                                So you don't know exactly what your husband said but you "bet" that he said you didn't want it and you "bet " he said you would sell it to him.

                                But he "won't fess up" as you put it so you don't know what the heck he said. I would therefore give the farmer the benefit of the doubt, especially since he offered to bring the hay back!!


                                Perhaps (since he won't 'fess up') your husband was vague and said you don't want the second cut and did not mention payment.

                                Since no one knows and we are betting what happened and since even you do not quite believe your husband's version of events I'll suggest the farmer was perhaps telling the truth.


                                So how about losing the poor me/victim thing.

                                Comment


                                • #56
                                  I don't have hay but I do have to relay a story here than might help out the OP.
                                  We got a contract to rebuild our garage and we rebuilt it with changes - extend the roof out 12' and put in stalls. Easy enough right? Even had diagrams and everything.
                                  Well, the contractor was absolutely clueless. I mean to tell you, the guy he had in charge of our project was seriously not smart. Could not for the life of him figure out what we were saying. I had to scale diagrams - pictures - the works. Hubby even spoke redneck to him.
                                  So there was a huge misunderstanding. I think the underlying factor was they were overbudget and they were hoping to skip out on us.
                                  I caught the issue. Mind you, I'm the only one that deals with them. And the hubby says 'talk to the wife - she knows what she wants'. They know full-well that I'm the pants on this project.
                                  So, they continued to try to talk to the hubby. And the hubby showed them the diagrams and what-not. I spoke with them on the phone. And then finally just plain caught up with them while they were there. Ambushed them basically.
                                  They were of the mindset that chicks don't rule the house. I'm not kidding.
                                  And they tried to pull 'well, the SO said ...'
                                  And unfortunately for them, the hubby and I are always on the same wavelength. always ...
                                  So, did they lie? Probably not. They misconstrued what was said. It was probably like this:
                                  hubby:"Yeah, we aren't going to use the 2nd cutting hay"
                                  farmer:"Oh yeah?"
                                  hubby:"yeah, we're going to store it and sell it"

                                  all farmer hear was 'we aren't going to use the 2nd cutting hay' and went with it.
                                  He'll probably continue to milk you. $400 is a lot of money. So, he thinks that you're Ms. Moneybags and doesn't keep a budget. so he thinks he can snow you.
                                  Either manage him or fire him.
                                  Even duct tape can't fix stupid

                                  Comment


                                  • #57
                                    [quote=Tamara in TN;5058298]

                                    my leases allow it for any length of time that's why



                                    again do I have a written agreement to park it there ?


                                    rock and roll with that try it some time and tell me how it goes... we don't use weapons ..we have written agreements and the law on our side...did you miss Jenners post on the matter ?? other farmers would not be so considerate about the whole thing as to bother the police...


                                    .

                                    or not

                                    Tamara in TN
                                    That is great Tamara- the situation you describe, however, of having written leases (which is different than an agreement to simply cut and bale someone's hay) that explicitly address the issue bears little resemblance to the OP's situation as described (which had an apparently vague and verbal agreement to simply cut/bale).
                                    You are the one who brought up the response of showing up with a gun and threatening people (I believe anyway it was you). Glad to hear you won't actually do that (and I am not too worried about police not responding to a complaint that involved threatening someone with a gun on their own property). As for other farmers, whether they may or may not do it does not make it legal or even defensible, even if there is a written lease and the land owner has violated it (which would likely be a civil and not criminally actionable matter)
                                    There is something about the outside of a horse that is good for the inside of a man.(Churchill)

                                    Comment

                                    • Original Poster

                                      #58
                                      Originally posted by egontoast View Post
                                      So how about losing the poor me/victim thing.
                                      Lost a long time ago... which I think I made quite clear. My story hasn't changed at all. It is what it is, and I put it all out there. Here is what I posted earlier about my husband: "You wanna know the truth? I'd bet dollars to donuts that my husband DID tell him we didn't want (but I bet he said he would sell it to him) the second cut but won't fess up...". He probably thinks I'll be mad at him, but I was more than willing to sell it to joe farmer... just was a little confused that he took it without so much as a discussion on him purchasing it. I know that my husband did not just say he could "have it". Anyway, I'm not one to make enemies, obviously, so I will not continue this dialogue with you.

                                      LisaB, I think you're right ON the money with what you have said. I believe the situation and him, are managed. I won't be making the same mistake next year. A family member will be doing my baling next year.

                                      And yeah, $400 is A LOT of money. I realize it's what it costs to fertilize my field... but for heaven sakes, the field wasn't fertilized. We just chose not to argue the fact and will take it into our own hands so we know it's really been done. Again, tried to keep the peace with him as it was prior to our first cutting. I think he's shown us on more than one occasion that we really don't want to do business with him any longer, and maybe he'll have to find another way to get to the adjacent field next year, since the only way on is via my property. But, again, I'm not much of a beeatch, unless totally cornered, and will probably let him drive on through. We'll see!
                                      ******
                                      Shadow Dancer 2/17/91-12/23/10 - My Horse, My Heart <3

                                      Comment


                                      • #59
                                        All I can say is I'm glad I don't live in TN. Where I'm from we're all much more neighbourly.

                                        Comment


                                        • #60
                                          Originally posted by sketcher View Post
                                          or have good relationship with the farmers in your area, you don't mess with their stuff.
                                          Oh yeah, cause lemme tell you non-farmers something....farmers talk! We do in fact have our own little club (Not like "Oh, you're gay? Do you know my aunt's sister's son in laws best friend's younger step sister in China?" ) and if you act the part of the crazy lady stealing keys/batteries/what have you, the rest of the local farmers will find out. And either refuse to deal with you, or deal with you very carefully.


                                          Originally posted by bambam View Post
                                          removing the key from equipment parked on my property after failing to respond to my attempts to contact you, not illegal.
                                          As an ACTUAL COP has already pointed out, YES, that IS ILLEGAL. It does not matter how long that equipment has been on your property, you are NOT ALLOWED to touch it until you have gone through the appropriate legal avenues.

                                          Lemme give you a quick example: We found a POS vehicle shoved into the woods, plateless, on a corner of our property. We were just going to have it towed away for scrap, but gave the local police a call first. Despite the fact that it seemed to be clearly dumped on our property, to keep everything LEGAL we had to fill out a bunch of paperwork, run VIN numbers, etc before we were even allowed to MOVE it, nevermind get rid of it. Luckily for us, before we had to bother filling out all the paperwork the police found the owner, some idiot who was "just leaving it there until I could deal with it." But had we had that vehicle scraped, and the owner had come back to claim it and had the balls to confront us about it being missing, we would have been in the wrong, legally.

                                          So go ahead and yank that key out. But when the farmer comes back and calls the cops, YOU will be in trouble.

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