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Property marker moved-what to do?

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  • Property marker moved-what to do?

    Our neighbors inherited the property, and after several years of setting off fireworks and hanging a flag with machine guns on it, they are planning to sell. We have an easement (drain) on the edge of our property with them, The easement is on our property. We noticed that there is now a new marker pipe on the wrong side of the easement. We do not see the neighbors around. We mentioned it to town hall, and they were not helpful.

    Ideas?

  • #2
    New survey!
    Some riders change their horse, they change their saddle, they change their teacher; they never change themselves.

    Remember the horse does all the work, we just sit there and look pretty.

    Comment


    • #3
      if the property is registered land, surveys are often filed as plans in Massachusetts Land Court,.... so the internet says

      here is the state guide to surveyors on what/how to do

      https://www.mass.gov/files/documents...truction06.pdf

      Comment

      • Original Poster

        #4
        Originally posted by clanter View Post
        if the property is registered land, surveys are often filed as plans in Massachusetts Land Court,.... so the internet says
        Will look into this. We had the land surveyed a few years ago, I would hate the incur the expense to redo it.

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by IFG View Post
          We noticed that there is now a new marker pipe on the wrong side of the easement.
          Ideas?
          from the above attached state guide, page 10

          2.1.3.5.3. Semi-Permanent Monument. Semi-permanent monuments are durable monuments that remain stable for several years. Although many iron pipes remain undisturbed for years, most are easily dislodged or removed. For this reason the Court views almost all iron pipes as semi-permanent.
          The land back east often used trees or whatever as markers... we had a farm in Kentucky it was every one's best guess as to just where the property lines were since the trees mention the deed had died a few hundred years ago

          Comment


          • #6
            Surveyors usually put a metal "pin" at the borders. Can you find yours and mark it somehow obvious to potential buyers?
            "Be yourself; everyone else is already taken."
            - Oscar Wilde

            Comment


            • #7
              I'm glad the surveyor is going to stand by their work. I still wonder why the septic on their property moved the marker on your property. They usually don't go that close to the property line with septic work, so fencing or other work doesn't impact the septic lines, and other parts of the system. I think going through the realtor is a good idea.
              Last edited by JanM; Jul. 11, 2019, 09:19 PM.
              You can't fix stupid-Ron White

              Comment


              • #8
                Just have a surveyor reset the pin. Should be less expensive than a full on survey but if the neighbors moved it once there is no telling if they will move it again, take pictures.
                Courageous Weenie Eventer Wannabe
                Incredible Invisible

                Comment


                • #9
                  Clanter is right -- where are you in MA?

                  Use:

                  www.masslandrecords.com

                  Go to your county - mine is Middlesex South, so www.masslandrecords.com/middlesexsouth

                  Go to Search Criteria > Land Court >

                  You may search by Book/Page or by Property Search, if I remember correctly. I have had the best luck with the book and page. If you don't know your Book/Page, call your Assessor's Office and they will provide it.

                  Your Town Hall should have been able to help you at least pull up any surveying online at Masslandrecords -- I have found with city hall, sometimes you have to unfortunately ask (or fight) the right questions to get the answer you need... Check with your Building Department, and your Assessor's Office. It's unlikely the AO has any on file, but sometimes BD does if it was provided by the home-owner during any permits taken out. Board Of Health sometimes might have it too, but generally, as far as I know Town Halls do not keep surveying records unless provided by the owners.

                  You definitely want to hire a surveyor -- or even better, insist the Realtor does since apparently the pipe moved but not of your own doing.. And I assume it did not get "fundamentally sick" of being where it was -- someone moved it... so it's on that someone to fix it.
                  AETERNUM VALE, INVICTUS - 7/10/2012

                  Comment

                  • Original Poster

                    #10
                    Really appreciate everyone's advice. MA Court told me to call the lawyer who closed (who has not picked up), so I called the surveyor in town to see if they can fix the pin.

                    Comment

                    • Original Poster

                      #11
                      Originally posted by beowulf View Post
                      Clanter is right -- where are you in MA?

                      Use:

                      www.masslandrecords.com

                      Go to your county - mine is Middlesex South, so www.masslandrecords.com/middlesexsouth

                      Go to Search Criteria > Land Court >

                      You may search by Book/Page or by Property Search, if I remember correctly. I have had the best luck with the book and page. If you don't know your Book/Page, call your Assessor's Office and they will provide it.

                      Your Town Hall should have been able to help you at least pull up any surveying online at Masslandrecords -- I have found with city hall, sometimes you have to unfortunately ask (or fight) the right questions to get the answer you need... Check with your Building Department, and your Assessor's Office. It's unlikely the AO has any on file, but sometimes BD does if it was provided by the home-owner during any permits taken out. Board Of Health sometimes might have it too, but generally, as far as I know Town Halls do not keep surveying records unless provided by the owners.

                      You definitely want to hire a surveyor -- or even better, insist the Realtor does since apparently the pipe moved but not of your own doing.. And I assume it did not get "fundamentally sick" of being where it was -- someone moved it... so it's on that someone to fix it.
                      When we pull up the plan on line the easement is definitely on our property--for now at least.

                      Comment

                      • Original Poster

                        #12
                        Waiting to hear back from the surveyor (they are out in the field right now. Will keep you posted!

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Good luck!
                          "Be yourself; everyone else is already taken."
                          - Oscar Wilde

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            When the surveyor is out to reset the pin, be there with him and get pictures with some identifying stuff in them relative to the pin.

                            It's illegal to move that stuff around, although damned hard to prosecute without any proof. If you think the neighbors are going to move it again, a game cam or something watching that spot will help. The police are more likely to go have a chat with the offenders if you got some pics of them messing around with it.

                            Good luck, survey stuff and property line problems are just SUCH a pain in the butt

                            Comment

                            • Original Poster

                              #15
                              Update (I think positive). Spoke to surveyor who said that the last survey that they have on file had the easement on our property. Easement is also noted in the Quitclaim Deed (whatever that is). Surveyor suggested calling the realtor to find out who had stuck the marker in the wrong place. Called the realtor, and he said that no new survey had been done, that the marker was moved by the septic folks(??) who are redoing the septic. Said the current owners are still there (but see comment about machine gun flag above, not eager to go talk to them). Realtor said he would take care of it, does not want a dispute at closing. Will keep you posted! Thanks for all the helpful advice!

                              Comment


                              • #16
                                Originally posted by IFG View Post
                                that the marker was moved by the septic folks(??) who are redoing the septic. !
                                a follow up question might be appropriate.... how close to the property line did these septic people put the new septic tank field? usually the field needs to be a set minimum distance away from a property line

                                the marker may have been relocated to accommodate their needs

                                Comment

                                • Original Poster

                                  #17
                                  Originally posted by clanter View Post

                                  a follow up question might be appropriate.... how close to the property line did these septic people put the new septic tank field? usually the field needs to be a set minimum distance away from a property line

                                  the marker may have been relocated to accommodate their needs
                                  Exactly, that is why I contacted the realtor, I should know more in a few days.

                                  Comment


                                  • #18
                                    If your survey was done in recent times, the Surveyor probably has the GPS settings on his records. You can hire them to come back out, to remark or find existing markers along that side of propery. Locally, Surveyor drives metal rod into the ground for markers, caps them with his business name for easy location.

                                    The charge for just doing one side, finding the markers should be minimal. I would call him immediately, he may be very busy. It took us about 3 months to get the Surveyors out, they were scheduled out that far. The job itself only took a couple hours using their previous records, mostly hammering the wood stakes! Ha ha I asked for enough wood stakes for a line of site from one stake to the next one over rolling hills. I then went back and put in a T-post by each wooden stake, each corner for a more permanent line marker. Makes the lines very visible.

                                    I also recommend contacting the Realtor, tell them the new stakes are in wrong locations. Tell them you are getting the Surveyor out to mark your line, so prospective buyers don't think the easement is part of the property. Do the Surveyor call, Realtor call NOW, before any sale happens!

                                    Comment


                                    • #19
                                      They could have just got a variance if they needed the septic closer to the property line. They didn't have to move the legal property marker and mess with OP. what a set of jerks.
                                      Courageous Weenie Eventer Wannabe
                                      Incredible Invisible

                                      Comment


                                      • #20
                                        Originally posted by ReSomething View Post
                                        They could have just got a variance if they needed the septic closer to the property line. They didn't have to move the legal property marker and mess with OP. what a set of jerks.
                                        I am just assuming they moved it to provide a required set back... really do not know ...but people do not normally just move a marker for no reason

                                        And just because a variance is applied for does not insure you will obtain a variance specifically in OP's case of being next to a drainage easement would be an additional question mark

                                        the whole set up could be completely ligament...but... a marker is just not relocated normally

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