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Selling the Farm - Equipment conveys?

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  • Selling the Farm - Equipment conveys?

    Is it normal for all the equipment to be included in the sale of a farm? Our buyer assumed this was included in the purchase price. I was surprised by this as it was not previously discussed. I'm thinking we should renogotiated the price. The smaller farm implements they can have but there is also a tractor, farm truck, etc.

  • #2
    if sale was listed as 'turn-key' then I'd think that buyer would get equipment -- otherwise I'd think that it would be as with a house, things that are permanent stay with property and movable things should be negociated
    Nothing says "I love you" like a tractor. (Clydejumper)

    The reports states, “Elizabeth reported that she accidently put down this pony, ........, at the show.”


    • Original Poster

      The farm wasn't advertised at all. They knew we were thinking of selling in the near future and made us an offer. We're just working through the details now. Their initial offer didn't mention the equipment. When we responded and agreed to the price and settlement date, then they came back with this:

      "One thing perhaps we did not make clear is that we would like to purchase the farm as a "going concern," that is with all the farm equipment, minus any equipment having to do with the horses, of course."


      • #4
        Equipment does not convey with the property, unless it is previously negotiated and included in the sales contract. What is and isn't conveyed should always be spelled out in detail in the sales contract. IME, it is NOT the norm to convey farm equipment with the sale -- Unless you have an agreement to purchase/sell the equipment in addition to the property, the equipment is not part of the sale. (Gates, etc. are often also not part of the sale unless specifically listed in sales contract as staying.)

        Advertising a farm or property as "turn key" has nothing to do with equipment.


        • #5
          It's never safe to assume anything. When we bought our farm 2 years ago, we figured we were just buying the property, not the farm equipment that was there. The sellers agent let us know an old John Deere tractor and an old harrow were included and pointed out the brand new Kubota was not included. If they want the farm equipment and you're willing to sell....raise the purchase price!


          • #6
            Farm equipment is considered personal property and isn't included unless it's specifically included in either the contract or a bill of sale to the prospective purchasers. Do you already have a ratified contract? If not, and you're willing to sell the equipment, tell them you'd be happy to sell it to them for an additional $x.


            • #7
              All that has to be spelled out in the contract and you have to be really careful or you'll wind up with the junk pile and dead equipment/cars. I asked for the firewood to be left behind and got the pile of uncut logs and the rottier stuff, not the really good split wood. Although I mentioned verbally getting rid of the dead lawnmower in the run-in, I got it anyway. Not written in the contract you see.

              I've never heard of gates not conveying, but that might be a regional thing. The really confusing stuff would be items like fly misting systems, Rubbermaid water troughs, tank heaters, saddle racks, you'd think the fly mister and the saddle racks would stay because they are permanently attached and the troughs/heaters would go but it doesn't always work that way. My seller took his wall mounted shelves and workbench, that was a bit of a surprise but my DH was fine with it, he wanted to configure the shop HIS way.

              From what I'm reading OP is already in contract? Buyers cannot change the terms at this point, they get what is "permanently attached", not personal property such as the truck or tractor. If you'd had an agent it would cost more but they do a very good job of representation/protection in matters of this nature.
              Courageous Weenie Eventer Wannabe
              Incredible Invisible


              • Original Poster

                No real contract yet. Just a good faith offer. We'll find out specifically what equipment they are interested in and negotiate the price from there.

                They can have some of the smaller stuff but the more expensive equipment they are going to have to pay for, or find another farm to buy.

                They aren't even going to have horses, probably cattle and some other animals. What a waste of my beautiful barn


                • #9
                  Nothing is assumed. And I mean NOTHING.

                  Spell it out. A specific, to the point, bulleted list is your friend.


                  • #10
                    No, as others have said, all the farm equipment is personal property, so unless it is specified in the contract (which it clearly is not, as you say), it does not convey. Since they have now made it clear that they want the equipment, then a new price needs to be negotiated and agreed upon.

                    Regarding water troughs, saddle racks, etc... Fixtures, unless specified, typically stay with the property if removal would cause damage or they have become an integral part of the real property. However, easily removable items such as troughs and non-built in (just bolted on) saddle/bridle racks should never be assumed to be staying. As always, make clear what is or is not conveying when selling property.
                    Cherry Blossom Farm - Show & Field Hunters, Side Saddles


                    • #11
                      if it's nailed down or set in the ground, that's my rule of thumb - it's part of the property - otherwise it must be bought seperately
                      Nothing says "I love you" like a tractor. (Clydejumper)

                      The reports states, “Elizabeth reported that she accidently put down this pony, ........, at the show.”


                      • Original Poster

                        Originally posted by SGray View Post
                        if it's nailed down or set in the ground, that's my rule of thumb - it's part of the property - otherwise it must be bought seperately
                        That's a good rule


                        • #13
                          Be very detailed in your descriptions of what conveys in the contract. When we bought our place the contract stated saddle and bridle racks and water troughs to stay. I got the racks, but the 100 gallon tanks disappeared and I was left with plastic trash cans as "troughs." I should have written "100 gallon black Rubbermaid livestock troughs in x locations."

                          And being the ever-helpful seller, the former owner tried to stick me with 25 rusty cans of paint that matched nothing on the property. She also wanted to leave me piles of scrap treated wood while taking the good seasoned logs telling me "I was throwing money away" by not keeping the 3 foot high, 6 foot in diameter scrap pile to burn in the house. Um, toxic! I told the agent, "If it's so valuable, she should be happy to take it."


                          • #14
                            We wrote in our purchase offer that the old wreck car had to be removed and the junkpile of rusty wire. Really wasn't much other "stuff" around the place. We did find junk metal posts and wire down later on, after the snow melted.

                            I would consider wood posts carrying wire as part of the property, but not metal T-posts. Have seen too many places where seller just removed them to take to the "new place". T-posts just are not that permanent! I also would not consider gates as part of the property unless specified. I have MANY gates, paid a lot for them all and would take them if we moved.

                            I told son and daughter that if we died suddenly, to remove ALL the hooks, brackets, metal fixtures we use for storage, from the sheds and barns. Lots of antique stuff, which sell by the EACH for very good money. Also to remove the hand wrought door handles from the big sliding doors, they are probably worth quite a bit by now for blacksmith artistic value. They should remove all the saddle racks, harness racks (antiques again), cabinets, sell them seperate. Any buyer is not going to be driving horse crazy, maybe not even into horses at all, so they would not use the equipment.

                            Husbands tools would need to be removed too, even though bolted to the floor in the shop. Certainly the tractor, farm tools, trucks and trailers would not be included at all unless negotiated for more money.

                            Your buyers have an odd way of saying they want your stuff! I would have a lawyer go over everything, make sure the wording is right, especially about NOT including the extras. Then read it YOURSELF! We almost got the neighbor's HOUSE, when we were trying to buy their back acreage!! Her lawyer didn't read the property description or didn't COMPREHEND what the words said in the transaction papers. He tried to blame it on the office ladies, but they REALLY gave him the hairy eyeball, so I believe it was his OWN fault or lazyness. Quantity of land was part of the description, 1/2 acre, not 7 acres, we caught that right off ourselves. The old lady seller was NOT happy, since we then had to all come back again with correct property description to sign papers.


                            • #15
                              A term we learned during one property purchase was "broom clean". Love that!
                              In other words, take all your junk - I. Don't. Want. It!

                              We worked with a realtor and any time we saw junk cars, old farm stuff, she called it "treasures".

                              We always ask for the "treasures" to be removed at sellers expense, and house to be in "broom clean" condition for final walk thru.

                              One farm we bought, the seller took the fly spray tank. Left all the hosing and nozzels connected but took the tank? And left the hot walker after we had explicitly asked for it to be removed. We contacted our closing attorney and had the sellers come back, disconnect and remove the hot walker.

                              Put everything in writing and be prepared to enforce it!
                              You're entitled to your own opinion, not your own facts!


                              • #16
                                As a former Realtor; no, equipment is not generally included in the sales price of a farm unless otherwise specified or agreed upon.
                                Since your farm was not marketed, it wasn't offered as turn key..."real property" is all that's included and that means anything built in, built on or otherwise non-removable without changing the value of the property.

                                Like for the house, a dishwasher is real property because it's built in and generally always included, but a fridge is not. Appliances are real property only when built in or otherwise specified. The problem pops up with light fixtures sometimes too...like a chandelier. It's real property and automatically included in the sales price unless the seller specifies that they'll be taking that specific light with them. Then either a credit for a replacement or a replacement put in before closing happens. To remove the light means it must be replaced because it changes the room to have an open electrical and no light.

                                With farms and horse properties...real property included are things that change the usefulness of the property *and* that are attached. Fence, gates, cross ties, bucket hooks, portable run in sheds, etc. And I'm not joking when I say I've gone to more than one final walk through of a farm before closing to find the fences torn down, barn stripped, gates missing, sheds missing, coops missing, etc.

                                Portable cross fencing isn't considered included unless it's the main/majority type of fencing. Then it is considered real property. Round pens aren't unless part of the marketing.

                                Motorized vehicles are not included unless specified, they may be assumed included if the property is designated a turn key business/property.

                                The motorized equipment is a tough one to pro-rate for a sale too. If the seller is moving to another farm, they will need that tractor or truck. And for what they offer it for in the sale of the farm will normally not be close to what they need to replace them. However, if the seller was planning new ones or if the shipping of the larger equipment would be cost prohibitive or if they just didn't need them any longer, it's better for the seller to pro-rate them by trade in or private sales value and include them in the sale.

                                That decision is up to each individual seller depending on their situations and what works best for them. There isn't any precedent stating these items are usually expected to be included. I've suggested to some sellers to negotiate and include them if they 1) won't need them 2) need to buy new anyways 3) moving too far away to move them along too and 4) if they really need/want to sell now and the loss of the vehicles isn't as important to them as the sale.

                                If the seller isn't in a tough or time limited situation then I normally would negotiate the best possible price on their behalf or stand firm on the equipment not being included and lose that buyer if necessary.

                                You have to decide which situation fits you and your sale best. Good luck! Hope this helped.
                                You jump in the saddle,
                                Hold onto the bridle!
                                Jump in the line!


                                • #17
                                  Originally posted by BestHorses View Post
                                  Be very detailed in your descriptions of what conveys in the contract. When we bought our place the contract stated saddle and bridle racks and water troughs to stay. I got the racks, but the 100 gallon tanks disappeared and I was left with plastic trash cans as "troughs." I should have written "100 gallon black Rubbermaid livestock troughs in x locations."
                                  When we bought this house, we LOVED the house, but I was so unhappy with the sellers. They had us over a barrel, really, as we had closed on the house we were selling the day before, were staying over night in a rented condo (my husband had been living there while he worked up here and I was still i the other house), and the horses were overnighting with
                                  a friend.

                                  When we did the walk through, I almost had a fit. They left the place filthy - pile of trash bags on the porch, trash everywhere, BLACK swimming pool with a dead rat, crap in the shed (including a trash can partially full of feed with another dead rat), grass grown up badly, run in shed full of nasty old hay and other garbage, dead deer heads hanging on the fence, broken glass bottles in the yard, etc.

                                  They took the nice shower fixture in the master bath and replaced it with a cheap, crappy shower head. They took the mirrors off the built in vanities in both bedrooms. Took all the drapes and curtain rods (all window treatments were to stay per the contract). Took the porch swing (that part I can live with - I assumed it would stay since it was hanging from the porch ceiling, but it could come down...).

                                  I told our realtor how unhappy I was. He did nothing about it. We had no place else to go while we fought it out with the sellers, so we spent the first few days scouring the house with bleach (to get out all of the mouse droppings!) and then began attacking the property.

                                  We left the place we sold immaculate ... but when we bought it, it was also filthy (and had 50 cans of paint left behind - for hideous paint colors I don't think anyone has ever painted anything).
                                  Visit us at Bluebonnet Equine Humane Society - www.bluebonnetequine.org

                                  Want to get involved in rescue or start your own? Check out How to Start a Horse Rescue - www.howtostartarescue.com


                                  • #18
                                    Ah that sucks CowgirlJenn. Unfortunately that's not uncommon either.
                                    As important as it is to specify what will be left is to specify what will be removed!
                                    Your realtor sucked, that's as nice as I can put it.
                                    A poor wimpy Realtor will gloss over a crappy walk through because they feel they're done and don't want to jeopardize or lose a commission.
                                    Realtors need a brass set. S/he should have (and in most states is legally obligated to) fix this at the closing table. A call immediately to the attorney from the walk through, photos taken then and there and produced at the closing with both attorneys settling on a deduction at the closing table from seller to buyer for the cost of clean up and removal. That's the best remedy bit some attorneys will try to go for a paid lease time from seller to buyer in which the seller has to go back and remove crap, fix what's broken and/or give money to cover clean up. A *good* attorney shouldn't do this because your homeowners insurance hates this...having a non-owner with a grudge working on your property. Plus the sellers will take short cuts or never show up. Just a pita.
                                    Sorry that happened to you. For future referrrence...next time you use a Realtor ask them how they handle this situation. Some will wimp out although they're not supposed to.

                                    Besides...it makes the closing table a lot more exciting when a good realtor blows a gasket and scares the hell out of the crappy filthy sellers.
                                    You jump in the saddle,
                                    Hold onto the bridle!
                                    Jump in the line!


                                    • #19
                                      When I bought our farm we got years worth of manure they were contractually obligated to remove.
                                      and months later it finally was, along with all the "Rats".

                                      Seller stripped the place, screw eyes, stall screens, water trougths, hoses, tack room had bare walls.
                                      Left appliances we didn't want and they were to remove.

                                      The amount of junk we found hidden by over growth was staggering.

                                      After settlement I arrived to find my movers sitting outside, seller was still in house and not by any stretch ready to leave, dirty dishes still in sink.
                                      Hours later when they finally left after my mover threatened to take my belongings and come back another day I found thier livestock still here awaiting a hauler who didn't have a specific pick up date. My horses were coming the next day WTF????
                                      Broom swept oh yeah more like a front end loader was needed.
                                      Now years later we still stumble across piles of junk as we push the brush lines back.
                                      Worth it IN EVERY WAY POSSIBLE.


                                      • #20
                                        Oh yeah, and my sellers got a week of free rent too, after we settled. (This while we were paying prorated rent per day on our old house.)

                                        Thank God they cleaned up as much as they did!

                                        BTW I'd never even heard of a settlement table - it's all escrow in CA, and everybody's job is to keep the buyer and seller AWAY from each other.
                                        Courageous Weenie Eventer Wannabe
                                        Incredible Invisible