• Welcome to the Chronicle Forums.
    Please complete your profile. The forums and the rest of www.chronofhorse.com has single sign-in, so your log in information for one will automatically work for the other. Disclaimer: The opinions expressed here are the views of the individual and do not necessarily reflect the views and opinions of The Chronicle of the Horse.

Announcement

Collapse

Forum rules and no-advertising policy

As a participant on this forum, it is your responsibility to know and follow our rules. Please read this message in its entirety.

Board Rules

1. You’re responsible for what you say.
As outlined in Section 230 of the Communications Decency Act, The Chronicle of the Horse and its affiliates, as well Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd., the developers of vBulletin, are not legally responsible for statements made in the forums.

This is a public forum viewed by a wide spectrum of people, so please be mindful of what you say and who might be reading it—details of personal disputes are likely better handled privately. While posters are legally responsible for their statements, the moderators may in their discretion remove or edit posts that violate these rules. Users have the ability to modify or delete their own messages after posting, but administrators generally will not delete posts, threads or accounts upon request.

Outright inflammatory, vulgar, harassing, malicious or otherwise inappropriate statements and criminal charges unsubstantiated by a reputable news source or legal documentation will not be tolerated and will be dealt with at the discretion of the moderators.

2. Conversations in horse-related forums should be horse-related.
The forums are a wonderful source of information and support for members of the horse community. While it’s understandably tempting to share information or search for input on other topics upon which members might have a similar level of knowledge, members must maintain the focus on horses.

3. Keep conversations productive, on topic and civil.
Discussion and disagreement are inevitable and encouraged; personal insults, diatribes and sniping comments are unproductive and unacceptable. Whether a subject is light-hearted or serious, keep posts focused on the current topic and of general interest to other participants of that thread. Utilize the private message feature or personal email where appropriate to address side topics or personal issues not related to the topic at large.

4. No advertising in the discussion forums.
Posts in the discussion forums directly or indirectly advertising horses, jobs, items or services for sale or wanted will be removed at the discretion of the moderators. Use of the private messaging feature or email addresses obtained through users’ profiles for unsolicited advertising is not permitted.

Company representatives may participate in discussions and answer questions about their products or services, or suggest their products on recent threads if they fulfill the criteria of a query. False "testimonials" provided by company affiliates posing as general consumers are not appropriate, and self-promotion of sales, ad campaigns, etc. through the discussion forums is not allowed.

Paid advertising is available on our classifieds site and through the purchase of banner ads. The tightly monitored Giveaways forum permits free listings of genuinely free horses and items available or wanted (on a limited basis). Items offered for trade are not allowed.

Advertising Policy Specifics
When in doubt of whether something you want to post constitutes advertising, please contact a moderator privately in advance for further clarification. Refer to the following points for general guidelines:

Horses – Only general discussion about the buying, leasing, selling and pricing of horses is permitted. If the post contains, or links to, the type of specific information typically found in a sales or wanted ad, and it’s related to a horse for sale, regardless of who’s selling it, it doesn’t belong in the discussion forums.

Stallions – Board members may ask for suggestions on breeding stallion recommendations. Stallion owners may reply to such queries by suggesting their own stallions, only if their horse fits the specific criteria of the original poster. Excessive promotion of a stallion by its owner or related parties is not permitted and will be addressed at the discretion of the moderators.

Services – Members may use the forums to ask for general recommendations of trainers, barns, shippers, farriers, etc., and other members may answer those requests by suggesting themselves or their company, if their services fulfill the specific criteria of the original post. Members may not solicit other members for business if it is not in response to a direct, genuine query.

Products – While members may ask for general opinions and suggestions on equipment, trailers, trucks, etc., they may not list the specific attributes for which they are in the market, as such posts serve as wanted ads.

Event Announcements – Members may post one notification of an upcoming event that may be of interest to fellow members, if the original poster does not benefit financially from the event. Such threads may not be “bumped” excessively. Premium members may post their own notices in the Event Announcements forum.

Charities/Rescues – Announcements for charitable or fundraising events can only be made for 501(c)(3) tax-exempt organizations. Special exceptions may be made, at the moderators’ discretion and direction, for board-related events or fundraising activities in extraordinary circumstances.

Occasional posts regarding horses available for adoption through IRS-registered horse rescue or placement programs are permitted in the appropriate forums, but these threads may be limited at the discretion of the moderators. Individuals may not advertise or make announcements for horses in need of rescue, placement or adoption unless the horse is available through a recognized rescue or placement agency or government-run entity or the thread fits the criteria for and is located in the Giveaways forum.

5. Do not post copyrighted photographs unless you have purchased that photo and have permission to do so.

6. Respect other members.
As members are often passionate about their beliefs and intentions can easily be misinterpreted in this type of environment, try to explore or resolve the inevitable disagreements that arise in the course of threads calmly and rationally.

If you see a post that you feel violates the rules of the board, please click the “alert” button (exclamation point inside of a triangle) in the bottom left corner of the post, which will alert ONLY the moderators to the post in question. They will then take whatever action, or no action, as deemed appropriate for the situation at their discretion. Do not air grievances regarding other posters or the moderators in the discussion forums.

Please be advised that adding another user to your “Ignore” list via your User Control Panel can be a useful tactic, which blocks posts and private messages by members whose commentary you’d rather avoid reading.

7. We have the right to reproduce statements made in the forums.
The Chronicle of the Horse may copy, quote, link to or otherwise reproduce posts, or portions of posts, in print or online for advertising or editorial purposes, if attributed to their original authors, and by posting in this forum, you hereby grant to The Chronicle of the Horse a perpetual, non-exclusive license under copyright and other rights, to do so.

8. We reserve the right to enforce and amend the rules.
The moderators may delete, edit, move or close any post or thread at any time, or refrain from doing any of the foregoing, in their discretion, and may suspend or revoke a user’s membership privileges at any time to maintain adherence to the rules and the general spirit of the forum. These rules may be amended at any time to address the current needs of the board.

Please see our full Terms of Service and Privacy Policy for more information.

Thanks for being a part of the COTH forums!

(Revised 1/26/16)
See more
See less

USEF reaction on the Courtney/Mythilus case

Collapse
This topic is closed.
X
X
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • USEF reaction on the Courtney/Mythilus case

    USEF reacted on the Positive Drug Test of Mythilus with the following statement:


    United States Equestrian Federation Response to FEI Press Release Regarding Positive Drug Test of Mythilus at 2008 Olympic Games


    Release: August 27 2008

    Lexington, KY - Following a routine drug test on August 19 at the 2008 Olympic Games in Hong Kong, Mythilus, a US dressage horse, ridden by Courtney King-Dye, was found to have tested positive for Felbinac. Felbinac is considered a class A prohibited substance by the FEI. Felbinac is usually applied topically for the relief of local pain and inflammation and belongs to a group of medicines called non-steroidal anti-inflammatory drugs (NSAIDs).

    When Mythilus arrived in Hong Kong he was treated in the Hong Kong Jockey Club Clinic for artrial fibrillation as a result of the stress of his trip. USEF Veterinarian, Dr. Rick Mitchell attended to the horse in close cooperation with the Veterinary Commission. King-Dye and Dr. Mitchell believe that during treatment at the clinic, he may have come in contact with Felbinac. In discussion with King-Dye, USEF vets, grooms and physical therapists, no other explanation or conclusion was able to be drawn.

    “Neither I nor my vets had ever heard of the drug Felbinac until we got the call about Myth's positive test,” said King-Dye. “We were stunned and baffled. We spent the entire day doing internet research on the uses for this drug and how it could possibly have gotten into my horse's system. As far as we could find it is not even manufactured, approved, or available in the US. My horse has had no soundness problems whatsoever, and I would have no need for an anti-inflammatory. Anyone who knows me knows whole heartedly that I would never dope my horse intentionally. It is cheating; it is not putting your best against the other’s best. I have never been in a more torturous and frustrating situation; trying to prove innocence is very hard. It saddens me beyond description that my whole reputation could be blackened because of this situation.”

    The FEI Tribunal stated in their Preliminary Decision that “there are circumstances in this case that makes it difficult to clear out how the Prohibited Substance entered into the horse’s system.”

    “The USEF stands behind the FEI's initiatives to rid the sport of doping and to protect the welfare of our horses. We are equally supportive of Courtney in this situation as this substance was unknown to any of us until a few days ago,” said USEF CEO John Long. “It seems clear that Mythilus came into contact with it without Courtney's or Dr. Mitchell's knowledge.”
    Last edited by freestyle2music; Aug. 27, 2008, 07:49 PM.

  • #2
    thanks theo!
    Humans don’t mind duress, in fact they thrive on it. What they mind is not feeling necessary. –Sebastian Junger

    Comment

    • Original Poster

      #3
      Originally posted by Bogey2 View Post
      thanks theo!
      Let's keep our fingers crossed for Courtney

      Comment


      • #4
        I would guess from all the info on the net and the fact that vets from countries other than the US were attending to Myth with his heart/breathing problem someone had the drug on themselves or the instruments being used on Myth. How small is a small amount? The drug testing should also have a scale, if the drug in question is miniscule, and the drug needed a certain amount to be a validly used as a pain killer wouldn't the amount show it was an accidental amount?

        Is this a drug test that shows say one millionth amount in a drop? Ultrasounding gel on a horse could bring that one millionth particle in a sensitive test.
        ~Equine Jewelry~
        Used Saddles For Sale
        www.divadesigns.biz

        Comment


        • #5
          It's so sad to see something like this happen to such a promising up-and-coming rider. It sounds like she will pull through it fine, though.

          I am questioning why the American vets had never heard of felbinac -- Surpass is not exactly an unknown product in the US. Every vet I have ever talked to is aware of it. I'm not saying that they used it on Mythilus, just wondering why they aren't aware of it.

          I don't question at all that CKD had never heard of it, though -- I don't memorize the ingredient list of every horse product either, particularly if it isn't one I'm using.

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by fordtraktor View Post

            I am questioning why the American vets had never heard of felbinac -- Surpass is not exactly an unknown product in the US. Every vet I have ever talked to is aware of it. I'm not saying that they used it on Mythilus, just wondering why they aren't aware of it.

            The substance at issue, felbinac, is not an ingredient in Surpass. Felbinac is not approved by the FDA and is not available in the United States. It is an NSAID used in Europe and Asia for humans to manage arthritis and similar conditions as well as, in its gel form, a coupling agent for ultrasounds. There are links to information about it on the CKD thread.
            Roseknoll Sporthorses
            www.roseknoll.net

            Comment


            • #7
              I suppose to protect themselves riders might consider having blood samples pulled at varying points in time for their own protection. And having them available should a drug test be performed that reveals a positive results. The other samples could at least show the time frame of change in the results.
              Summit Sporthorses Ltd. Inc.
              "Breeding Competition Partners & Lifelong Friends"

              Comment


              • #8
                This drug testing is getting ridiculous. Even the posters here can't agree on what is what. Sheesh!

                Comment


                • #9
                  Surpass is diclofenic, not Felbinac. If Felbinac is even approved in this country for animals or humans, it's doing a good job of not showing up on the human or animal (green book) searches in the FDA site. If that is the case, I can see whey a US vet had not heard of it.
                  Your crazy is showing. You might want to tuck that back in.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Felbinac is also a metabolite of another substance (whose name also starts with F; I am blanking but posted it on the CKD thread).
                    Roseknoll Sporthorses
                    www.roseknoll.net

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Thanks, that clears it up. I got the Surpass misconception from the other thread, but didn't read through all 144 posts so missed the rest. Makes sense that the US vets would not have it on the radar.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by DMK View Post
                        Surpass is diclofenic, not Felbinac. If Felbinac is even approved in this country for animals or humans, it's doing a good job of not showing up on the human or animal (green book) searches in the FDA site. If that is the case, I can see whey a US vet had not heard of it.
                        No but you can easly buy it online through a Canadian online pharmacy retailer. It is in gel or foam under the name of Traxam.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          It seems quite likely to me that the source is the coupling gel used for the ultrasounds when the Hong Kong veterinarians were examining the heart.
                          If you are allergic to a thing, it is best not to put that thing in your mouth, particularly if the thing is cats. - Lemony Snicket

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by poltroon View Post
                            It seems quite likely to me that the source is the coupling gel used for the ultrasounds when the Hong Kong veterinarians were examining the heart.
                            I agree... Out of all the positive tests at these games, to me, this one really is the most suspect.
                            "The standard you walk by is the standard you accept."--Lt. Gen. David Morrison, Austalian Army Chief

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by poltroon View Post
                              It seems quite likely to me that the source is the coupling gel used for the ultrasounds when the Hong Kong veterinarians were examining the heart.
                              Felbinac is used as a coupling medium in ultrasound TREATMENT for acute and chronic conditions were inflamation is present. I seriously doubt if the Hong Kong Olympic veterinarian team would use a knowingly banned substance for a diagnostic. They of all people would be the most learned in FEI, IOC, and WADA rules.

                              Comment


                              • #16
                                Originally posted by ceffyl View Post
                                Felbinac is used as a coupling medium in ultrasound TREATMENT for acute and chronic conditions were inflamation is present. I seriously doubt if the Hong Kong Olympic veterinarian team would use a knowingly banned substance for a diagnostic. They of all people would be the most learned in FEI, IOC, and WADA rules.
                                Yes, but there may have been some gel left on the equipment or it just could have been a mistake. Anyone who thinks that medical mistakes are not made has not read the news story about Dennis Quaid's newborn twins who almost died because they were given the wrong medication.
                                "Against stupidity the gods themselves contend in vain" ~Friedrich Schiller

                                Comment


                                • #17
                                  Just curious, are the horses watched 24-7 by a groom or security guard? What keeps other riders from petting a competitors horse with a prohibited topical cream on their hand? Obviously, it would be stupid to do that to a horse that placed 13th, but what if Courtney had been in medal contention? Has there ever been any foul play at the olympics (that has been discovered)?

                                  Comment


                                  • #18
                                    Originally posted by Eyemadonkee View Post
                                    Just curious, are the horses watched 24-7 by a groom or security guard? What keeps other riders from petting a competitors horse with a prohibited topical cream on their hand? Obviously, it would be stupid to do that to a horse that placed 13th, but what if Courtney had been in medal contention? Has there ever been any foul play at the olympics (that has been discovered)?
                                    FEI competitions have "secure" barns, in that you need a special pass to get in and security guards do monitor and only allow those in with passes. However, any further internal security (as in, having someone watch over the horse 24/7) is up to the competitor.

                                    Comment


                                    • #19
                                      I am curious as to the method of treatment for the Atrial Fibrillation in this horse. Anyone know if they attempted to convert him?

                                      I would think Rick Mitchell would know the FEI drug rules backwards and forwards.

                                      This case does sound like lab contamination to me. The Capsaisin, not so much.

                                      Comment


                                      • #20
                                        Originally posted by Ruby G. Weber View Post
                                        I am curious as to the method of treatment for the Atrial Fibrillation in this horse. Anyone know if they attempted to convert him?
                                        I am going to refrain from making any one of a number of possible smartass jokes here, but you did make me laugh because of the double entendre.
                                        Roseknoll Sporthorses
                                        www.roseknoll.net

                                        Comment

                                        Working...
                                        X