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I love Freestyle but...

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  • I love Freestyle but...

    Anyone else think that choosing the Olympic Gold medalist only on the Freestyle is not the best idea?

    It seems like it is also rewarding the choreographer, the technical people who created the music, and whoever guessed what type of artistic expression would make the best impression on the most judges. Yes, there is a technical score, but the artistic side just adds another level of subjectivity to an already subjective judged sport.

    I would prefer to see the GPS score count as some percentage as well. Or, in my ideal Olympics, separate individual awards for test dressage and freestyle!

  • #2
    I think an average of all 3 would be ideal.
    chaque pas est fait ensemble


    • #3
      I'm with ya MsM!


      • #4
        I agree. Let's be honest - the music is a mash-up of synethesized muzak with so many transitions it is impossible to really feel a flow, no matter how well the choreography and musicography (or whatever) go together. Then there is the matter of taste - what the crowd likes vs. what the judges like (e.g. Lion King or Phil Collins or classical or horrible muzak), and how that is interpreted as an "artistic merit" score.

        While I thought Charlotte did a great job in her freestyle - her score was over 90%. To me that means, she scored all 9s and a 10 or two. But since she made a mistake at the end of the test, there must have been some deduction. So let's say a low mark (5/6/7/8) balanced by another couple of 10s to bring that overall score to above 90%.

        Even if we agreed that her technical score was really wonderful, even higher than her GP and GPS score - was her music, artistic interpretation, choreography (as it relates to artistic stuff and not to the technical score) etc. also a 90%+?

        Perhaps this is totally impossible and idealistic -but how I would love to see a freestyle where there is the feeling of an actual dance/dancer - dancing to a song with a distinct flow, beginning, middle, end. I don't care if the beat of the music does not precisely match the distinct beat of the trot, piaffe, passage, canter, canter pirouette, etc.

        You never know what kind of obsessive compulsive crazy person you are until another person imitates your behaviour at a three-day. --Gry2Yng


        • #5
          I didn't even realize they were doing this now. It used to be a combination. It makes o a who is the favorite contest. No way Charlotte should have won because the difficulty coefficient in the GP freestyle is 10, and she wasn't even close to doing the level of difficulty others were doing. And the cut and paste music should have been taking off in harmony.

          Blugal--TOTALLY with you. I can't stand music cut and paste to the ride. It should be riding to the music and a cohesive style and theme, not Great Escape music, the graduation theme, and the Olympic music back and forth.


          • #6
            Originally posted by Beentheredonethat View Post
            not Great Escape music, the graduation theme, and the Olympic music back and forth.
            Not disagreeing with your overall comment.

            But I wanted to point out that the melody from Elgar's "Pomp and Circumstance" (often used for graduations in the US) has a different connotation in Britain.

            It is the melody for a highly patriotic song called "Land of Hope and Glory".

            There have been lots of positive comments from the UK press about her including "Land of Hope and Glory" in her freestyle.

            chief feeder and mucker for Music, Spy, Belle and Tiara. Someone else is now feeding and mucking for Chief and Brain (both foxhunting now).


            • #7
              I know they love it. Even if Pomp and Circumstance is a patriotic song there, how does The Great Escape tie in? A movie about prisoners escaping from a concentration camp? And I've used the Olympic theme music in my own freestyles before, but how does that tie in? It was just way too cut and paste even if you can find some theme to the music, which IS scored in the freestyle.

              I can see making a British themed music makes sense. At the World Cup in LA Monica Theodorescue was REALLY smart and used Hurray for Hollywood and other Hollywood themed music. (The venue was in Burbank--big Hollywood studio area.) But, this one, I didn't get.


              • #8
                Beentheredonethat she won! What the ...


                • #9
                  Originally posted by Janet View Post

                  But I wanted to point out that the melody from Elgar's "Pomp and Circumstance" (often used for graduations in the US) has a different connotation in Britain.

                  It is the melody for a highly patriotic song called "Land of Hope and Glory".

                  Next you'll tell me that "My Country 'tis of Thee" is actually "God Save the Queen"!
                  "... if you think i'm MAD, today, of all days,
                  the best day in ten years,
                  you are SORELY MISTAKEN, MY LITTLE ANCHOVY."


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by mp View Post

                    Next you'll tell me that "My Country 'tis of Thee" is actually "God Save the Queen"!

                    Every time I hear "God Save the Queen" I am always.....hey.....wait a minute.........
                    "Can you imagine what I would do if I could do all I can?" Sun Tzu

                    My Blog!


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by MsM View Post
                      Anyone else think that choosing the Olympic Gold medalist only on the Freestyle is not the best idea?
                      The dressage community has been choosing champions based on the freestyle for years - it was originally changes with the idea that it would be more exciting for the audience to know instantly rather than wait for some calculations.

                      For the olympics (if you averaged the scores) the gold and silver would have been the same, but the bronze would have gone to Damon Hill


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by 2bayboys View Post

                        Every time I hear "God Save the Queen" I am always.....hey.....wait a minute.........
                        The British anthem came first. originated in ~1745. Over 140 composers have used it in their music since then.
                        Proud member of the Clean Horse, Dirty House Clique! Founder of the Goodbye Fat, Hello Muscle Clique!


                        • #13
                          In my ideal Olympics, there should be 3 possibilities of medals in dressage:
                          - team
                          - individual
                          - freestyle.

                          The freestyle is so different from the rest, with choreography / music etc. added to the mix. It should stand alone IMO. And I agree with the comments of pasting music to the ride rather than riding to the music, which is harder to do (harder to find music for that, too!) but would be much more fun to watch/listen to IMO.
                          Ottbs - The finish line is only the beginning!


                          • #14
                            In my ideal Olympics, there should be 3 possibilities of medals in dressage:
                            - team
                            - individual
                            - freestyle.
                            At the 1994 WEG there were separate medals for Freestyle and GP+GPS.

                            The freestyle is so different from the rest, with choreography / music etc. added to the mix. It should stand alone IMO.
                            I started to lose interest in Dressage at OG and WEG when they started to over weight the Freestyle. Deciding the Gold medal on the Freestyle is like letting the jumpers go in the ring and jump the fences in any order they want. Actually,I think it turns it into a bit of a circus act to be honest. Plus it makes it hard for the average non horsey person to compare rides.
                            That and the fact that I can't stand 90% of the music played for Freestyles.... bleeech, pass the vomit bucket.

                            Would have no problem with an aggregate of all three (GP, GPS and FS), seems much fairer to me.


                            • #15
                              I did a quick calculation of the top five freestyle riders using all three scores -- gold and silver stay the same, Helen Langehanenberg comes in 3rd, Carl Hester 4th and Laura Bechtolsheimer drops to 5th. I agree that the medal shouldn't rest on only one test and certainly not the freestyle. I like to see the horses do the same test so that I can evaluate them equally. I loved Fuego in the freestyle but mostly because he's so cute and the music is so perfect and he and his rider are fun to watch. But they are not the best combo out there.


                              • #16
                                We need to look into whoever mixed the music for Michelle Kwan's programs. And too bad Lori Nichols isn't a horse person!
                                You hate that, don’t you? Do you like oysters? You have to acquire a taste for oysters and the deep distance.”
                                -- George H. Morris on learning to love the deep distance


                                • Original Poster

                                  And that's why I think the freestyle should be a separate medal.
                                  Getting an individual medal in dressage shouldnt depend upon having access to a great choreographer or musicians! The artistic side is hugely subjective and open to even more interpretation/opinion. And is the main goal really incorporating musicality and dressage?
                                  As a measure of dressage itself, I think there needs to be a medal judged only on tests you dont make up yourself nor set to music. Then the freestyle can stand alone as what it is.