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Modern Pentathlon

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  • Originally posted by Duramax View Post
    Michael Cintas is no longer the US coach, Richard Lamb is.

    IS HE REALLY?!?!
    ~Veronica
    "The Son Dee Times" "Sustained" "Somerset" "Franklin Square"
    http://photobucket.com/albums/y192/vxf111/

    Comment


    • Originally posted by Brooke View Post
      When I was teaching riding at Stanford Univ., a guy came to me wanting to learn to ride in order to participate in the pentathalon. He had never been on a horse before and thought he'd give it a couple of months to get ready. He had no idea.
      Wonder if he moved to WA? My trainer had a similar call and declined to take the person on.

      Comment


      • I think the Bowsher kid (the men's U.S. competitor who rode like a flaming sack of s*** on the wrong lead) actually trains at the U.S. Olympic Training Center. So it's not like he has a lack of resources, because they have opportunities to practice ride in the area.

        As JER said, I think a strongly worded letter to either USA Pentathlon or USOC is in order. It's sad that he had 10 months to prepare and this is what he had to show for it.
        Road to the T3D
        Translation
        fri [fri:] fritt fria (adj): Free
        skritt [skrit:] skritten (noun): Walk

        Comment


        • How about mounted shooting instead of jumping?
          With the laser shot at least they can't shoot the horse. Could have an easy cross country track with a few obstacles (little logs, a stream, maybe some options) and targets. Hits and time determine score.
          Fairly generous time allowed and having to get a good score on the targets first would slow them down.

          Or since they already have shooting it could be archery (maybe get off the horse for that )

          Comment


          • Originally posted by vineyridge View Post
            Back in the days when the US pentathlon team came from the Army, I've read that they sent potential members who couldn't ride over to the cavalry school, where they got trained for several months. Learned with no stirrups and no reins for several weeks. Then no stirrups for several weeks more. I think that may have been the standard cavalry way to teach riding to new recruits.

            It was considered the most efficient way to teach quickly.
            Judging from my own experiences as a child w/ a retired cavalry drill sergeant, this would be correct. In case anyone is curious I'll give a few comments. Unlike what you would see under the Cossacks or the Cadre Noir, no vaulting was taught. Just an endless, relentless grind of trot/canter work w/o reins or stirrups on the longe line for 3 hours, 3x/week in my case. And it was ALL trot/canter, with just a 5-min walk break between 1st and 2nd hour, a 10-min walk break between 2nd and 3rd hour. There were upper body exercises, touching toes, etc. Toward the end one would ride blindfolded in order to learn to feel diagonals, leads, gait transitions. Then one would get other tasks to be performed at trot and canter, such as being given a notepad and pen and being asked to write one's name. The objective was not only to develop an independent seat but also to develop strong muscle memory, so that your body would automatically do the right things while the brain was engaged in other tasks. Which makes sense under the assumption you were going to be having sword fights (but would also be great for polo, etc.).

            I can remember a few times literally falling over when dismounting at the end of the lesson, b/c my legs were too shot to hold me up!! No excuses though - "Get yourself up off the ByGod ground and take care of your ByGod hoss!" And you better do it at a run, too - no moseying along at a walk w/ that bucket trying to catch your breath.

            You could offer me a year's worth of coaching from GM or Denny or the ex-cavalry guy; I'd pick the ex-cavalry guy every time. It was tough, tough as bootcamp, but you learned to ByGod RIDE!

            Sure wish the pentathlon athletes could train like that.
            "The standard you walk by is the standard you accept."--Lt. Gen. David Morrison, Austalian Army Chief

            Comment


            • Question-- do you think the riding would improve if each competitor (or their team) supplied their own horses? Then it wouldn't be catch riding (which even some good riders don't excell at) and there'd be some incentive not to ride like cr*p and ruin your own horse. If the competitors had to actually invest in a lease or purchase of a horse capable of that type of jumpig-- perhaps they'd be a lot more dedicated to improving their riding?
              ~Veronica
              "The Son Dee Times" "Sustained" "Somerset" "Franklin Square"
              http://photobucket.com/albums/y192/vxf111/

              Comment


              • Originally posted by Brooke View Post
                When I was teaching riding at Stanford Univ., a guy came to me wanting to learn to ride in order to participate in the pentathalon. He had never been on a horse before and thought he'd give it a couple of months to get ready. He had no idea.
                I don't know that it would be impossible. You're starting with someone who's already athletic and fit (I'm assuming here, obviously...), if they are already competent at fencing, shooting, swimming, and running.
                You have to have experiences to gain experience.

                1998 Morgan mare Mythic Feronia "More Valley Girl Than Girl Scout!"

                Comment


                • Fritt - Bowsher is from TX, I believe, and the US Olympic Training Center in CO Springs is about a 30 minute drive in any given direction to some top notch riding facilities with instructors.

                  The only excuse for not riding more is the cost, as these folks are paying their own way, but if you're not asking your private funders to pay for a portion of your riding fees, then you're not asking right. Also, as discussed, according to the athletes themselves the time is not being set aside for training in the equestrian phase, at least as compared to the other 4 phases.

                  As for the whole "IHSA ideal" of riding borrowed horses? Sure it's tough, but ask anyone in IHSA, especially those of us who rode in the more competitive regions - I'm sorry, but there wasn't this level of abusive riding displayed at IHSA shows - because there were standards!

                  Some refusals and a few spills due to unfamiliarity and tough draws occurred, sure - but you weren't even jumping in IHSA unless you had a demonstrated competency to jump. You certainly weren't wreaking havoc around a course dangerously and slamming horse's mouths and backs like we witnessed over the weekend watching the MP. Never.

                  Bottom line is that they need to recruit RIDERS for the international competition first and foremost, like Ms. McCann from Canada, or the Irish and U.K. women. Then build the other skills that don't involve a live animal that can be hurt!

                  Other proposed changes would be lowering the fence heights (in recognition that these are strange horses), seriously setting some kind of minimum standards in riding that have to be passed close to the competition or you're off the team (like you have to be certified somehow by a panel of judges that indeed, you can jump a 3' course safely), and scoring based on a system that encourages people to GO SLOWER - such as a very generous optimal time which, if you go faster, you would have points deducted per second UNDER the optimal time.

                  Am sure the knowledgable MP folk will have some commentary on the above, I am not a practicioner of MP but a) I do think it's a great sporting concept and b) I think these are basic, common-sense proposals that could be implemented at low-cost.

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by Flashy Gray VA View Post
                    Bottom line is that they need to recruit RIDERS for the international competition first and foremost, like Ms. McCann from Canada, or the Irish and U.K. women.
                    Melanie was NOT a rider when she started pentathlon. She was a swimmer and a runner. She was recruited for pentathlon and started riding about 4-5 years ago.

                    The other two Canadian national team girls came from riding (PC) backgrounds but not Mel.

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by JER View Post
                      Melanie was NOT a rider when she started pentathlon. She was a swimmer and a runner. She was recruited for pentathlon and started riding about 4-5 years ago.

                      The other two Canadian national team girls came from riding (PC) backgrounds but not Mel.
                      She has a nice natural seat. Oh to be that lucky.
                      Proud member of the Clean Horse, Dirty House Clique! Founder of the Goodbye Fat, Hello Muscle Clique!

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by Flashy Gray VA View Post
                        Fritt - Bowsher is from TX, I believe, and the US Olympic Training Center in CO Springs is about a 30 minute drive in any given direction to some top notch riding facilities with instructors.

                        The only excuse for not riding more is the cost, as these folks are paying their own way, but if you're not asking your private funders to pay for a portion of your riding fees, then you're not asking right. Also, as discussed, according to the athletes themselves the time is not being set aside for training in the equestrian phase, at least as compared to the other 4 phases.

                        As for the whole "IHSA ideal" of riding borrowed horses? Sure it's tough, but ask anyone in IHSA, especially those of us who rode in the more competitive regions - I'm sorry, but there wasn't this level of abusive riding displayed at IHSA shows - because there were standards!

                        Some refusals and a few spills due to unfamiliarity and tough draws occurred, sure - but you weren't even jumping in IHSA unless you had a demonstrated competency to jump. You certainly weren't wreaking havoc around a course dangerously and slamming horse's mouths and backs like we witnessed over the weekend watching the MP. Never.

                        Bottom line is that they need to recruit RIDERS for the international competition first and foremost, like Ms. McCann from Canada, or the Irish and U.K. women. Then build the other skills that don't involve a live animal that can be hurt!

                        Other proposed changes would be lowering the fence heights (in recognition that these are strange horses), seriously setting some kind of minimum standards in riding that have to be passed close to the competition or you're off the team (like you have to be certified somehow by a panel of judges that indeed, you can jump a 3' course safely), and scoring based on a system that encourages people to GO SLOWER - such as a very generous optimal time which, if you go faster, you would have points deducted per second UNDER the optimal time.

                        Am sure the knowledgable MP folk will have some commentary on the above, I am not a practicioner of MP but a) I do think it's a great sporting concept and b) I think these are basic, common-sense proposals that could be implemented at low-cost.
                        I'm not sure if starting with riders is the way to go. The other American girl, Margaux, grew up riding horses but didn't jump until she started doing Pentathlon. She wasn't horrific, but there definitely were some scary jumps and she was the "fastest time of the day." Not something to be proud of, IMO. Sad part is, if she had slowed down, she might have spared a few rails and would have earned a better starting position in the run/shoot -- and probably would have finished at least 3rd, instead of 4th.

                        I feel like getting local Pony Clubs involved would be a great start, especially with Tetrathlon getting more and more popular. If athletes don't have the funds to purchase instruction, they should try and trade lessons for ride time, like running or shooting.

                        I did IHSA, too, and while there were some not-so-pretty rounds, nothing was as bad as what I saw the past two days. I think lowering the fence height and slowing the speed to a maximum of 325 mpm is a start. After the craptastic riding and falls I saw yesterday, it's amazing no one's gotten seriously injured or killed doing this.
                        Road to the T3D
                        Translation
                        fri [fri:] fritt fria (adj): Free
                        skritt [skrit:] skritten (noun): Walk

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by FrittSkritt View Post
                          After the craptastic riding and falls I saw yesterday, it's amazing no one's gotten seriously injured or killed doing this.
                          Unfortunately, that is probably what is will take to stop this fiasco.

                          Comment


                          • This sport really interests me, I think it would be fun to learn. I wonder how you go about getting started.

                            It seems that if one were a decent rider, they could potentially jump quite far ahead in the placings after the riding phase.
                            My CANTER cutie Chip and IHSA shows!
                            http://www.youtube.com/kheit86

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by To the MAX View Post
                              This sport really interests me, I think it would be fun to learn. I wonder how you go about getting started.

                              It seems that if one were a decent rider, they could potentially jump quite far ahead in the placings after the riding phase.
                              I was wondering the same thing... I don't think there was one clear round, so they ability to put in a clear round (or just a rail or two) seems like it would immediately give you a huge leg up on the competition!

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by Tha Ridge View Post
                                I was wondering the same thing... I don't think there was one clear round, so they ability to put in a clear round (or just a rail or two) seems like it would immediately give you a huge leg up on the competition!
                                Based on my limited understanding... and please correct me if I am wrong: the problem with this theory is that by the time you get on the horse you already fenced and swam. At the very very VERY end... you run... and could in theory make up for any mishaps you made jumping. You win the event running at the end. And if you run fast enough, anything that happened before is irrelevant.

                                Everything up to the run just decides where you START the run. If you're a phenomenal runner and swimmer, you can just plan to suck at all the "skill" events (fencing, shooting, and riding) and just run faster in the end to make up for it. I had a friend 2 years ago who was a triathelete/ran ironman competitions and she thought about trying modern pentathalon. The people looked at her swim times (biking and running were always her strong suits-- she started off as a marathon runner) and told her she was too slow a swimmer, don't bother. She questioned this, after all it's just one phase, and was told that basically it's a swimming/running competition, the other stuff doesn't much matter and you can make it up if you're a fast swimmer/runner and that's what they were looking for in terms of training.

                                Put it this way. If you can finish a marathon a full 2 minutes ahead of anyone else... but by riding a clear round you'd get a 30 second head start on the competition... why worry!? Why even bother to train? take your 30 second "penalty" and win anyway with a minute and a half lead. That was the attitude she got when she started to look into this. It's basically just another running/swimming event with some inconsequential other stuff thrown in which everyone ignores.
                                ~Veronica
                                "The Son Dee Times" "Sustained" "Somerset" "Franklin Square"
                                http://photobucket.com/albums/y192/vxf111/

                                Comment


                                • Originally posted by To the MAX View Post
                                  This sport really interests me, I think it would be fun to learn. I wonder how you go about getting started.

                                  It seems that if one were a decent rider, they could potentially jump quite far ahead in the placings after the riding phase.
                                  Not really, there were several people that were pretty decent riders, but the horses still had rails. So the luck of the draw element plays a big part. What is more likely to happen is you really suck bad and rack up a bunch of jumping and time faults that puts you out of contention, like the Korean athlete and a few others. But I can't say I noticed anyone "jumping up" the placings. Seems like the athletes that were placed near the top coming into the jumping phase, were adequate enough riders, without necessarily being pretty, to get through the jumping phase without seriously hurting their placings.

                                  A rail down equal 20 penalty points. That translates to 5 seconds head start in the running phase. So if you are strong runner, you could afford to spot a less strong runner a couple of rails and make up for it in the running.
                                  ----//\\----
                                  ---//--\\---
                                  --//----\\--
                                  -//------\\-

                                  Comment


                                  • This is an interesting review of the modern Pentathlon

                                    http://brightstrangethings.com/2012/...rn-pentathlon/
                                    Yes, I smell like a horse. No, I don't consider that to be a problem.

                                    Originally posted by DottieHQ
                                    You're just jealous because you lack my extensive koalafications.

                                    Comment


                                    • pretty sure this whole issue could be resolved by using school ponies instead

                                      Where's naughty Ed when you need him?

                                      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aUaP0t5IUnM

                                      Kidding, kidding... but it might inspire these athletes to spend time learning to ride a bit better...
                                      My blog: Change of Pace - Retraining a standardbred via dressage

                                      Comment


                                      • Im watching the men's pentathlon right now and I have to say, compared to the spectacle in Beijing, these guys look like McLain Ward!
                                        Erin and
                                        Instant Karma "Sunny", ShineDown "Liam"

                                        "You can't control the wind, but you can adjust the sails."

                                        Comment


                                        • Originally posted by myhorsefaith View Post
                                          pretty sure this whole issue could be resolved by using school ponies instead

                                          Where's naughty Ed when you need him?

                                          http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aUaP0t5IUnM

                                          Kidding, kidding... but it might inspire these athletes to spend time learning to ride a bit better...


                                          I love Ed
                                          Yes, I smell like a horse. No, I don't consider that to be a problem.

                                          Originally posted by DottieHQ
                                          You're just jealous because you lack my extensive koalafications.

                                          Comment

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